[Discussion] Mass Shooting at Uvalde Elementary School

[FartingMonk 3606]

4 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Banning large capacity magazines would help.  These dudes don't have a kill rate of 1 hit for 1 bullet, it's more like 1 for 10.  Slow them down, don't have pussy cops, and you drop the causalities significantly. 

For a drive by shooting I would say that's true.  But unfortunately for school shootings it is not.  It seems like the vast majority of school shootings the dude gains access to a classroom and does most of the casualties in there.  So his accuracy is a lot more deadly.  

[BabaYaga 15202]

1 minute ago, FartingMonk said:

For a drive by shooting I would say that's true.  But unfortunately for school shootings it is not.  It seems like the vast majority of school shootings the dude gains access to a classroom and does most of the casualties in there.  So his accuracy is a lot more deadly.  

Could have accomplished the exact same outcome with a shotgun and a bandoleer of shells.  Had the fucking cops done their job, this discussion isn't happening. 

[Js1 85056]

The “can’t do nothing” crowd is back in full force today 

[Dahobbs 17420]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

You have absolutely no way to know if this is true.  

I absolutely do. He bought the gun right before the shooting. Any significant waiting period or age limit restriction and he couldn't have shot up those kids since they wouldn't be at school. Waiting periods mean more time for someone to cool off, get caught for something else if this is an impulsive event. Age restrictions would be even better since he couldn't have bought for years. 

[FartingMonk 3606]

I'm in full favor of disarming everyone including the military.  

[Dahobbs 17420]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Could have accomplished the exact same outcome with a shotgun and a bandoleer of shells.  Had the fucking cops done their job, this discussion isn't happening. 

I hope you and your family aren't the next victims of one of these events. But, if you are, I hope you have the ability to conduct some self reflection. Only one developed country has this problem. States that enact reform measures have significantly gun violence. All data points to gun reform and enforcement of gun safety as an effective measure to reduce overall gun violence and these events in particular. Or, you can just keep blindly repeating that nothing will work to justify doing nothing. 

[BabaYaga 15202]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

I absolutely do. He bought the gun right before the shooting. Any significant waiting period or age limit restriction and he couldn't have shot up those kids since they wouldn't be at school. Waiting periods mean more time for someone to cool off, get caught for something else if this is an impulsive event. Age restrictions would be even better since he couldn't have bought for years. 

He waiting until his 18th birthday.

He waited.  He could keep waiting.  And waiting.  And waiting.  Or borrowed or stolen them from someone else.  There are a thousand variables here that you cannot account for.  This was not a crime of passion.  This was a premeditated attack.  

[Dahobbs 17420]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

He waiting until his 18th birthday.

He waited.  He could keep waiting.  And waiting.  And waiting.  Or borrowed or stolen them from someone else.  There are a thousand variables here that you cannot account for.  This was not a crime of passion.  This was a premeditated attack.  

Yes, he waited. And the longer he has to wait, the longer he has for his thoughts to change or for him to caught/flagged for something else. What I know with absolute certainty is that he couldn't have committed violence that day. One day you'll realize you're wrong, just as I did. Until then, I hope not too many bodies get added to your conscience. And yes, I believe you, and others like you, have individual accountability for each of these incidents. Your stance is morally repugnant, especially since I suspect you know I'm right, but prefer to keep owning the libs.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Dahobbs

[DigglerontheHoof 21022]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

He waiting until his 18th birthday.

He waited.  He could keep waiting.  And waiting.  And waiting.  Or borrowed or stolen them from someone else.  There are a thousand variables here that you cannot account for.  This was not a crime of passion.  This was a premeditated attack.  

bushels and bushels of dead kids so you can pewpew on weekends...sounds like a reasonable trade off.  Sleep well. 

[CooterBrown 17875]

9 minutes ago, Js1 said:

The “can’t do nothing” crowd is back in full force today 

The talking points arrived in their daily GQP/NRA/RU email.

[Homercles 10205]

I would expect, in battle, you’re most vulnerable when reloading…so I think it’s bs to outrightly dismiss magazine capacity as a factor.  My counter to the extreme case cited above of ‘he could have killed as many with a muzzle loader’:  someone could tackle you much more easily when you’re swapping magazines every ten seconds instead of 30.  See: suppressing fire

[Homercles 10205]

1 minute ago, CooterBrown said:

The talking points arrived in their daily GQP/NRA/RU email.

No they’re just following the playbook of letting it die down a bit before bringing ‘common sense’.  It was even in internal memos 

[FartingMonk 3606]

If you want to enact any legislation then you better be ready to enforce it.  The only way to enforce it is by going militant on the consequences.  Are we ready to do that.  Let's not beat around the bush and say oh, layered protection.  Layered this.  Pass the gun laws.  Now you tell them hey you get caught with a gun and you're underage that's 10 years.  You commit crimes with a gun that's 25 years.  You don't want teeth in the gun laws then it makes no difference.  

[BabaYaga 15202]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes, he waited. And the longer he has to wait, the longer he has for his thoughts to change or for him to caught/flagged for something else. What I know with absolute certainty is that he couldn't have committed violence that day. One day you'll realize you're wrong, just as I did. Until then, I hope not too many bodies get added to your conscience. And yes, I believe you, and others like you, have individual accountability for each of these incidents. Your stance is morally repugnant, especially since I suspect you know I'm right, but prefer to keep owning the libs.

 

 

 

I've already stated I support a min age of 25 to purchase.  What I am also stating is that you have absolutely no way to know with any level of certainty if this stops this attack, let alone others.  If you are being intellectually honest, you acknowledge this.

It "might", but to say with absolute fact it would or would not is not a viable position to take.  

[FartingMonk 3606]

3 minutes ago, Homercles said:

I would expect, in battle, you’re most vulnerable when reloading…so I think it’s bs to outrightly dismiss magazine capacity as a factor.  My counter to the extreme case cited above of ‘he could have killed as many with a muzzle loader’:  someone could tackle you much more easily when you’re swapping magazines every ten seconds instead of 30.  See: suppressing fire

These dudes choose elementary schools for a reason.  No one is going to tackle them.  Who are you laying suppressing fire against?  

[BabaYaga 15202]

1 minute ago, FartingMonk said:

If you want to enact any legislation then you better be ready to enforce it.  The only way to enforce it is by going militant on the consequences.  Are we ready to do that.  Let's not beat around the bush and say oh, layered protection.  Layered this.  Pass the gun laws.  Now you tell them hey you get caught with a gun and you're underage that's 10 years.  You commit crimes with a gun that's 25 years.  You don't want teeth in the gun laws then it makes no difference.  

Most of these attacks are suicide by cop.  Twice Horn already stated deterrence laws seem to do very little

[Homercles 10205]

Teachers, janitors, admin, any adult is what I was thinking.  

[Dahobbs 17420]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

I've already stated I support a min age of 25 to purchase.  What I am also stating is that you have absolutely no way to know with any level of certainty if this stops this attack, let alone others.  If you are being intellectually honest, you acknowledge this.

It "might", but to say with absolute fact it would or would not is not a viable position to take.  

Yes it is. He couldn't have committed violence that day. I can't know 100% whether he would have committed violence later. But I do know further delay gives us the best chance to avoid it. 

Anyway, you say your for legislation, but then spend all your time railing against all legislation as useless. That definitely tracks. 

[BabaYaga 15202]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

but then spend all your time railing against all legislation as useless.

Need some more straw for your house?

 

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

He couldn't have committed violence that day

He couldn't have used legally obtained items.  That doesn't mean he could have gone the criminal route with thousands of other options nor does it address an subsequent shootings, which is the point, right?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19074]

51 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

But it didn't. Unless response time already has people ready to respond in a few minutes.  The capacity of the magazines don't play a major role.  We aren't ready to talk about having armed security at schools though.  I'm not talking teachers.  That's not their job.  Trained and armed security at every school..

 

This is fucking stupid.  

[Helobious 9477]

I like how people think these autistic shut-in losers with no friends can just easily hit up a street gang or criminal and buy a gun. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

Need some more straw for your house?

 

He couldn't have used legally obtained items.  That doesn't mean he could have gone the criminal route with thousands of other options nor does it address an subsequent shootings, which is the point, right?

Again, you're for doing something, but going to continue to post increasingly insane reasons to do nothing. I'm sure a town with a population of 15,000 has "thousands" of illegal ways to obtain firearms. I'll let you think about why that is horrible reason to not enact gun reform. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

Just think, if we had as many proven cases of voter fraud as we have had mass shootings over the last 5 years, the group most opposed to gun reform would be loudly banging the drum to "do something." For some reason, I don't think the response would be laws can't solve problems. 

[BabaYaga 15202]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Again, you're for doing something, but going to continue to post increasingly insane reasons to do nothing. I'm sure a town with a population of 15,000 has "thousands" of illegal ways to obtain firearms. I'll let you think about why that is horrible reason to not enact gun reform. 

Yep.  No ways to illegally obtain or steal guns in a S.Texas in relatively close proximity with the border.  

[Dahobbs 17420]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Yep.  No ways to illegally obtain or steal guns in a S.Texas in relatively close proximity with the border.  

Sure, a short hour and half drive to the border. Really, really, simple after that to obtain guns. Definitely no additional impediments. Really though, if it is that easy to do, let's just ban the sale of all guns in US. The gun guys will not be effected because it will still be easy for them to get guns and the rest of us will feel better. Seems like a win, win. I'm sure you're down. 

[Foosters 17691]

My favorite part of this debate is the part where the law-and-order crowd begins explaining that laws don't work to prevent undesirable conduct. 

[BabaYaga 15202]

16 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

let's just ban the sale of all guns in US

When you say the quiet part out loud.  See, that wasn't that hard.  

[immamac 42492]

Thread hasn't been even remotely on topic for the 3-5 pages. Go to the Gun Safety/Control thread to discuss policies related to that. This can be collapsed into news cycle only in the news thread.