[Discussion] Mass Shooting at Uvalde Elementary School

[DDD Dad 14329]

Just now, Godzillatron said:

Regardless, wrong place wrong time

Eh, the "wrong time" was basically just a free campaign ad for the statewide republican leadership.  

[SydneyCarton 48065]

10 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

So those morons get to grandstand on the bodies of those dead kids but its not the time and place for Beto?

 

What am I missing?

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

So should we wait until the batch of dead children before we actually start talking about what we can do to dial it back?

If it's really all about mental health as abbott and friends would have us believe, then why are they pilfering hundreds of millions from TX DHHS to pay for a fucking border wall?

Seems like you just don't like to see abbott get called out for his empty excuses

 

1 minute ago, UnivTex34 said:

I didn't say that. 

But there is absolutely no difference in what they were doing at that PC than what he did.

 

 

Was their PC political grandstanding? Sure. And are they hiding behind the grief of families and dead children? 100%. But that doesn't matter. Why? Because like it or not, folks expect elected officials to give press conferences during disasters. But you show up as a candidate looking to interrupt, and it will 100% be seen by most casual people as a political stunt, and likely a tasteless one considering the timing. Beto was mostly unintelligible over the TV the whole thing lasted a minute. The headlines will write themselves, people will have a bad taste in their mouths. Abbot didn't get hurt in this exchange. He wasn't shamed. It wasn't a debate where he looked clueless of how to answer. Abbot didn't say shit, and the mayor of Uvalde cussed out Beto and he was removed. What's the positive take away from that, for anyone? Folks voting for Beto are voting for Beto, ditto abbot, but I can't see this swaying anyone in the middle, if those people even exist anymore. And someone can inform me how what he did aids in preventing the "next batch of dead kids." Everyone on that stage can get fucked as far as I'm concerned, but I don't see how this helps anything. I can certainly see how it can be skewed as insensitive and tasteless. 

What he should have done was contact some folks and hold his own press conference. Where at least people could hear what he was saying.  

[DaysOff 7947]

Patting themselves on the back for law enforcement response keeping it from being worse, giving excuses for why it was inevitable, blaming mental health and not a gun problem. 
 
If it is a simple PC, then why was it not just the Gov? Why the dream team? It was a political stunt.

Don't forget the cowboy hats indoors. Makes you look tough.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

 

Was their PC political grandstanding? Sure. And are they hiding behind the grief of families and dead children? 100%. But that doesn't matter. Why? Because like it or not, folks expect elected officials to give press conferences during disasters. But you show up as a candidate looking to interrupt, and it will 100% be seen by most casual people as a political stunt, and likely a tasteless one considering the timing. Beto was mostly unintelligible over the TV the whole thing lasted a minute. The headlines will write themselves, people will have a bad taste in their mouths. Abbot didn't get hurt in this exchange. He wasn't shamed. It wasn't a debate where he looked clueless of how to answer. Abbot didn't say shit, and the mayor of Uvalde cussed out Beto and he was removed. What's the positive take away from that, for anyone? Folks voting for Beto are voting for Beto, ditto abbot, but I can't see this swaying anyone in the middle, if those people even exist anymore. And someone can inform me how what he did aids in preventing the "next batch of dead kids." Everyone on that stage can get fucked as far as I'm concerned, but I don't see how this helps anything. I can certainly see how it can be skewed as insensitive and tasteless. 

What he should have done was contact some folks and hold his own press conference. Where at least people could hear what he was saying.  

If my quick research of the topic is correct the mayor of Uvalde can be audibly heard calling Beto a "sick son of a bitch."

[texasdago 7569]

About those funds that went to the border...

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/04/29/greg-abbott-texas-border-mission-funding/ 

 

[Homercles 10205]

I don’t care if it was seen in poor taste.  I want more Steve Kerr, Beto, and general outrage using all avenues possible.  Decorum and solemn T&P has been the runout groove on this LP for years and years now.  
 

As a parent of two elementary kids, if I was in the vicinity of that PC I can’t guarantee I wouldn’t have barged in there and started yelling.  Those are the fucking people that constantly brag about making it easier to get guns, carry guns and campaign on guns…fuck them

[DDD Dad 14329]

6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

 

Was their PC political grandstanding? Sure. And are they hiding behind the grief of families and dead children? 100%. But that doesn't matter. Why? Because like it or not, folks expect elected officials to give press conferences during disasters. But you show up as a candidate looking to interrupt, and it will 100% be seen by most casual people as a political stunt, and likely a tasteless one considering the timing. Beto was mostly unintelligible over the TV the whole thing lasted a minute. The headlines will write themselves, people will have a bad taste in their mouths. Abbot didn't get hurt in this exchange. He wasn't shamed. It wasn't a debate where he looked clueless of how to answer. Abbot didn't say shit, and the mayor of Uvalde cussed out Beto and he was removed. What's the positive take away from that, for anyone? Folks voting for Beto are voting for Beto, ditto abbot, but I can't see this swaying anyone in the middle, if those people even exist anymore. And someone can inform me how what he did aids in preventing the "next batch of dead kids." Everyone on that stage can get fucked as far as I'm concerned, but I don't see how this helps anything. I can certainly see how it can be skewed as insensitive and tasteless. 

What he should have done was contact some folks and hold his own press conference. Where at least people could hear what he was saying.  

Perhaps he'll do just that as well.  I don't have a problem with what he did.  I'd have liked to have seen other regular citizens doing the same.  It's about time people started calling officials out for this shit rather than just letting them blather on with thoughts and prayers.

[SydneyCarton 48065]

4 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If my quick research of the topic is correct the mayor of Uvalde can be audibly heard calling Beto a "sick son of a bitch."

He called him that, as well as an asshole. I saw it live. 

[Homercles 10205]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

He called him that, as well as an asshole. I saw it live. 

Loudly into the microphone for all to hear, grandstanding

[sidis 9825]

7 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

 

Was their PC political grandstanding? Sure. And are they hiding behind the grief of families and dead children? 100%. But that doesn't matter. Why? Because like it or not, folks expect elected officials to give press conferences during disasters. But you show up as a candidate looking to interrupt, and it will 100% be seen by most casual people as a political stunt, and likely a tasteless one considering the timing. Beto was mostly unintelligible over the TV the whole thing lasted a minute. The headlines will write themselves, people will have a bad taste in their mouths. Abbot didn't get hurt in this exchange. He wasn't shamed. It wasn't a debate where he looked clueless of how to answer. Abbot didn't say shit, and the mayor of Uvalde cussed out Beto and he was removed. What's the positive take away from that, for anyone? Folks voting for Beto are voting for Beto, ditto abbot, but I can't see this swaying anyone in the middle, if those people even exist anymore. And someone can inform me how what he did aids in preventing the "next batch of dead kids." Everyone on that stage can get fucked as far as I'm concerned, but I don't see how this helps anything. I can certainly see how it can be skewed as insensitive and tasteless. 

What he should have done was contact some folks and hold his own press conference. Where at least people could hear what he was saying.  

and people wonder why republicans keep winning...this post is why.

dan patrick, greg abbott, dade phelan, and ted cruz are some of the worst human beings on this planet...they ran interference on the real issue and trotted out their "we don't know what to do, we don't know why it is so bad, mental health mental health mental health."  not one reporter asked him why he stole $210 million from dhhs's budget to fund his border theatrics if he's actually concerned about mental health in this state.  not one.

these are the same people who cheered on an invasion of the fucking united states capitol in an effort to overturn the outcome of a national election...whose supporters erected gallows outside of the capitol for mike pence.  and they are going to get sanctimonious about someone standing up and saying "hey, you assholes, you're ignoring the problem here" after 21 people are murdered.  and you are all too willing to carry their water for them.

[Fondren & Main 6703]

2 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Loudly into the microphone for all to hear, grandstanding

Both things can be true.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

Perhaps he'll do just that as well.  I don't have a problem with what he did.  I'd have liked to have seen other regular citizens doing the same.  It's about time people started calling officials out for this shit rather than just letting them blather on with thoughts and prayers.

There wasn’t anyone else, probably because when your community is hit with something like this, your first instinct is not to make it political. It’s more like shocked grief.
 

There were a lot of people on that stage. Guarantee some of those locals lean left. There wasn’t a person cheering Beto’s theatrics. 
 

He is the only outsider who cared enough to drive to Uvalde to make a spectacle of himself. He knew it wouldn’t accomplish anything. He did it for the national fundraising and the Twitter likes. Just the truth. 

[SydneyCarton 48065]

2 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Loudly into the microphone for all to hear, grandstanding

Yup. And he'll get a free pass because he didn't start the confrontation, he's just the outraged mayor of an emotionally gutted community looking out for his flock. They couldn't have scripted it better. 

[DDD Dad 14329]

1 minute ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

There wasn’t anyone else, probably because when your community is hit with something like this, your first instinct is not to make it political. It’s more like shocked grief.
 

There were a lot of people on that stage. Guarantee some of those locals lean left. There wasn’t a person cheering Beto’s theatrics. 
 

He is the only outsider who cared enough to drive to Uvalde to make a spectacle of himself. He knew it wouldn’t accomplish anything. He did it for the national fundraising and the Twitter likes. Just the truth. 

Shocked, grief stricken, and mad as hell.  And having to eat a shit sandwich listening to these people grandstand themselves.  I have zero problem with him calling out their bullshit.  Regardless of whether it might also have had a potential political benefit to him.

[atomheartbevo 89630]

5 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

How about a policy that negates crazy's ability to get a fucking gun in the same amount of time as ordering a #2 from Whataburger?

4 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Background checks without red flag laws are a fucking joke, anyway. I can literally buy a gun in 45 minutes. This kid was also, 18, but despite being clearly disturbed, it's not too surprising he didn't have a criminal record to flag regardless. 

Red flag laws won't stop every shooter (such as the Las Vegas shooter), but they can stop a lot of them.

Even without a criminal record, there's a solid chance that decent red flag laws could have caught him, or at least slowed down the process. The fact that the police had been out to his house to deal with shit going down between he and his mom should have been enough to put him on some kind of list.  Even if he was a minor at the time and then turned 18, such red flags shouldn't automatically go away.

It's really fucking frustrating, because so many of these shooters were known to law enforcement, mental health folks, schools, etc.  I've listed many in other threads, but it's actually kind of hard to find a school shooter who shouldn't have been thoroughly scrutinized and had the gun buying process slow-rolled, or had law enforcement remove guns from his household.  Almost every single one of them, a little digging turned up people who weren't surprised they went nuts.

We also need a better mental health system, but that's its own thread.  I have tried to get a relative committed (best word I can use) who clearly needed help, and these days there is not much you can do if they are functioning.  I've also dealt with the mental health folks at APD (actual trained APD cops) in regards to a neighbor's schizo son, and no matter how bad he got, as long as he didn't harm himself or others, it was easy for him to be out the next morning or evening.  Nobody wants a return to the days when families would get Uncle Ed locked up because he preferred to wear his wife's clothes and be called Aunt Edna, but there's got to be something better.

In terms red flag laws, we have some politicians and organizations who fight them tooth and nail as some kind of 2A issue, and they won't compromise.  We don't let an 8 year-old walk into a gun store and buy a rifle, we don't let Joe Blow walk in and buy a fully-automatic rifle, so there's obviously some restrictions they've had to accept.  If these folks don't want to back down on red flag laws, make it so the 18 year-olds can only buy single-shot rifles.  

Would that stop a relative giving an 18 year-old an AR-15?  Nope, but better red flag laws could go hand-in-hand with criminal liability laws - if a relative gives that 18 year-old an AR-15 and the kid shoots up a school, and there were clear signs that should have prevented that 18 year-old from owning a firearm without some serious scrutiny, put that relative on trial.

Unfortunately red flag laws are used by some organizations and individuals to fund-raise off of, and so they refuse to budge an inch.

But outside of those individuals or organizations, I sometimes wonder if the people most opposed to red flag laws are concerned they would be swept up in such red flag laws.

[Captainant 27639]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

He called him that, as well as an asshole. I saw it live. 

I think it's a bigger asshole move and political grandstanding to hold a press conference the day after a shooting to blame it on mental health, while at the same time stealing hundreds of millions in funding from state mental health services.

That's something only a sick son of a bitch would do.

1 minute ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

There wasn’t anyone else, probably because when your community is hit with something like this, your first instinct is not to make it political. It’s more like shocked grief.

It's not making it political to demand some fucking action to be taken after school after school is shot up. Standing back and claiming you can't do anything about it is making it political.

Fuck outta here like we shouldn't be full of rage at the decades of systemic failures that result in kids walking through metal detectors and doing shooter drills and thinking that's normal for school.

[SydneyCarton 48065]

2 minutes ago, sidis said:

and people wonder why republicans keep winning...this post is why.

dan patrick, greg abbott, dade phelan, and ted cruz are some of the worst human beings on this planet...they ran interference on the real issue and trotted out their "we don't know what to do, we don't know why it is so bad, mental health mental health mental health."  not one reporter asked him why he stole $210 million from dhhs's budget to fund his border theatrics if he's actually concerned about mental health in this state.  not one.

these are the same people who cheered on an invasion of the fucking united states capitol in an effort to overturn the outcome of a national election...whose supporters erected gallows outside of the capitol for mike pence.  and they are going to get sanctimonious about someone standing up and saying "hey, you assholes, you're ignoring the problem here" after 21 people are murdered.  and you are all too willing to carry their water for them.

Clearly you're not familiar with my posting history, bud. Carrying their water. 

What O'Rourke should have fucking done was hold his own press conference, call everyone on that stage an advocate of child murder, and point out all the points you just mentioned. Then it'll get covered by CNN and Fox, and people will actually hear what he had to say. Instead of showing up, shouting things no one can hear, and allowing everyone on that stage to maintain the moral high ground. You can disagree with me all you want, but there's reasons those guys remain in power, and it's because they clearly can shape public opinion better than their opponents. Offending some people who MIGHT have had a shot at voting for you isn't a winning strategy. 

[Captainant 27639]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

Clearly you're not familiar with my posting history, bud. Carrying their water. 

What O'Rourke should have fucking done was hold his own press conference, call everyone on that stage an advocate of child murder, and point out all the points you just mentioned. Then it'll get covered by CNN and Fox, and people will actually hear what he had to say. Instead of showing up, shouting things no one can hear, and allowing everyone on that stage to maintain the moral high ground. You can disagree with me all you want, but there's reasons those guys remain in power, and it's because they clearly can shape public opinion better than their opponents. Offending some people who MIGHT have had a shot at voting for you isn't a winning strategy. 

For what it's worth, all the major news channels did follow Beto outside and stopped airing the abbott press conference.

Because ya know, abbott was doing nothing more than giving thoughts and prayers and is committed to making zero changes to gun laws to stop children from being murdered in their schools.

[SydneyCarton 48065]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think it's a bigger asshole move and political grandstanding to hold a press conference the day after a shooting to blame it on mental health, while at the same time stealing hundreds of millions in funding from state mental health services.

That's something only a sick son of a bitch would do.

Yeah, but most of the public won't see it that way. They'll see it exactly as I presented it. You can dislike them all you want, and I do, and you can dislike what I'm saying. But it's no different than the 500 other reasons every day we want to pull out our hair because no one calls them on the bullshit that is obvious and plain to many folks. 

[Pam Cummings 9639]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Clearly you're not familiar with my posting history, bud. Carrying their water. 

What O'Rourke should have fucking done was hold his own press conference, call everyone on that stage an advocate of child murder, and point out all the points you just mentioned. Then it'll get covered by CNN and Fox, and people will actually hear what he had to say. Instead of showing up, shouting things no one can hear, and allowing everyone on that stage to maintain the moral high ground. You can disagree with me all you want, but there's reasons those guys remain in power, and it's because they clearly can shape public opinion better than their opponents. Offending some people who MIGHT have had a shot at voting for you isn't a winning strategy. 

Hmm i sort of agree but it's like you said. That probably wouldn't change anything either. The people who wanna vote for Beto would repost the clips from his presser and say vote for Beto, and the Abbott folks would do the same.

 

The main thing for me is that it feels good to see someone actually take some action, even as small as it was. Cross a line. Get people talking. Make people have to confront the realities of their internet opinions and what the results are. I genuinely believe the man cares. Fuck it, you know?

Edited May 25, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[SydneyCarton 48065]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

For what it's worth, all the major news channels did follow Beto outside and stopped airing the abbott press conference.

Because ya know, abbott was doing nothing more than giving thoughts and prayers and is committed to making zero changes to gun laws to stop children from being murdered in their schools.

I guess CNN didn't. They never cut away. And I haven't seen anything he said outside. 

But yes, their palms upraised bullshit got way fucking worse after Beto left. 

[SydneyCarton 48065]

Just now, Pam Cummings said:

Hmm i sort of agree but it's like you said. That probably wouldn't change anything either. The people who wanna vote for Beto would repost the clips from his presser and say vote for Beto, and the Abbott folks would do the same.

 

The main thing for me is that it feels good to see someone actually take some action, even as small as it was. Cross a line. Get people talking. I genuinely believe the man cares. Fuck it, you know?

I understand the sentiment. I just don't agree. Yes, it's obvious he cares. It's obvious he is very passionate about the issue. But if you're going to inflame, do it smarter. And don't give your opponents an opportunity to dismiss the points he's bringing up with the easy dodge of "It's so inappropriate to turn such a tragic event into a political stunt." They don't even have to address any point he's making. 

Now, look directly into a camera and say everyone on that stage is complicit in the murder of children, and insisting they address the funding, MAYBE they have to respond. If you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly. 

[sidis 9825]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

Clearly you're not familiar with my posting history, bud. Carrying their water. 

What O'Rourke should have fucking done was hold his own press conference, call everyone on that stage an advocate of child murder, and point out all the points you just mentioned. Then it'll get covered by CNN and Fox, and people will actually hear what he had to say. Instead of showing up, shouting things no one can hear, and allowing everyone on that stage to maintain the moral high ground. You can disagree with me all you want, but there's reasons those guys remain in power, and it's because they clearly can shape public opinion better than their opponents. Offending some people who MIGHT have had a shot at voting for you isn't a winning strategy. 

i am plenty familiar with your posting history.  you are carrying their water.  you want to hold them to a decorum standard and blame/disassociate beto as a result of him calling those pieces of shit out. 

he can still a press conference and and he likely will.  there were about a million reporters outside of the building recording what he said outside.  beto has been the nice guy and he's gotten his ass kicked because this is texas and texas is full of complete and utter fucking moronic fucks that eat that shit up.  there is a post at texags right now that is literally (not figuratively, LITERALLY) blaming greta thunberg for yesterday's shooting.  these are the fucking voters in this state.  dan patrick just blamed the shooting on the fact that we aren't christian enough anymore in that press conference yet you have nothing to say about that.

the dems in this state are generally belonging to one of the three following groups: incompetent, pussies, or corrupt pieces of shit.  young voters in texas have nothing to be motivated by...perhaps showing some actual balls will get him a little more momentum.  he will lose...bad.  but today has nothing to do with it.  and you slamming him is just more decorum whining from people who want to see change from people that laugh at you because they know you are feckless and powerless in this dumbfuck state (see abbott and patrick). 

[hobbes2702 13029]

30 minutes ago, Godzillatron said:

Regardless, wrong place wrong time

Tell us what the right place and right time are? Should we wait until the next time this happens. The right place and right time passed us years ago when a bunch of elementary school kids were murdered and we didn’t do anything about it. There is no wrong place or wrong time while politicians do nothing and our children get murdered in their fucking school

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

13 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Shocked, grief stricken, and mad as hell.  And having to eat a shit sandwich listening to these people grandstand themselves.  I have zero problem with him calling out their bullshit.  Regardless of whether it might also have had a potential political benefit to him.

Are you talking about yourself? I’m talking about actual Uvalde residents.
 

You asked where the regular citizens were? The ones that are directly affected are not acting like that because it’s not the natural reaction. 

 

12 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think it's a bigger asshole move and political grandstanding to hold a press conference the day after a shooting to blame it on mental health, while at the same time stealing hundreds of millions in funding from state mental health services.

That's something only a sick son of a bitch would do.

It's not making it political to demand some fucking action to be taken after school after school is shot up. Standing back and claiming you can't do anything about it is making it political.

Fuck outta here like we shouldn't be full of rage at the decades of systemic failures that result in kids walking through metal detectors and doing shooter drills and thinking that's normal for school.

It’s their job as elected officials to visit there and speak. 
 

I’m just clarifying the difference between citizens removed from a situation like this and those directly affected. 

 

[aggie08 21492]

Can someone please inform me when the "right time" to demand accountability and change is, so I can put it on my calendar? Is it like a Teams meeting, or...?

[Homercles 10205]

I’m def familiar with your posting history Sydney, as usually when I see you’ve replied I let an ‘awww shit here comes the truth live and in color’.  You’re absolutely right it was a strategic misstep to give those clowns on the stage, Fox, the 2A nuts, etc a reason to dismiss the Beto outburst as ‘out of line’.  
 

But damn man, what we’ve been doing for decades isn’t working.  Trying to play the long game, following ‘decorum’, thoughts and prayers, GoFundMe, etc.  Nothing has changed.  If it hurts Beto oh well, it got people talking and I bet it’ll get more airplay than just another press conference…playing the long game just lets the cycle repeat where it quickly fades from the public eye until the next time.  
 

The first black man to be elected President, who had an eight year career in the highest office, said Sandy Hook was his worst day.  
 

It makes me fucking sick.  They wanted it all to calm down again so they can go about fuckin up everyone’s lives by worshipping paper that is hundreds or thousands of years old in the name of securing their voting base that’s fed lies and constant inflammatory rhetoric in the name of viewership.  It’s a vicious cycle and our collective response has gone nowhere.  

[clapclapclap 9000]

27 minutes ago, Homercles said:

I don’t care if it was seen in poor taste.  I want more Steve Kerr, Beto, and general outrage using all avenues possible.  Decorum and solemn T&P has been the runout groove on this LP for years and years now.  
 

As a parent of two elementary kids, if I was in the vicinity of that PC I can’t guarantee I wouldn’t have barged in there and started yelling.  Those are the fucking people that constantly brag about making it easier to get guns, carry guns and campaign on guns…fuck them

I don't think I want more of Steve Kerr.

Edited May 25, 2022 by clapclapclap

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

can we all get back to fervent prayers here, gentlemen?

[SydneyCarton 48065]

2 minutes ago, sidis said:

i am plenty familiar with your posting history.  you are carrying their water.  you want to hold them to a decorum standard and blame/disassociate beto as a result of him calling those pieces of shit out. 

he can still a press conference and and he likely will.  there were about a million reporters outside of the building recording what he said outside.  beto has been the nice guy and he's gotten his ass kicked because this is texas and texas is full of complete and utter fucking moronic fucks that eat that shit up.  there is a post at texags right now that is literally (not figuratively, LITERALLY) blaming greta thunberg for yesterday's shooting.  these are the fucking voters in this state.  dan patrick just blamed the shooting on the fact that we aren't christian enough anymore in that press conference yet you have nothing to say about that.

the dems in this state are generally belonging to one of the three following groups: incompetent, pussies, or corrupt pieces of shit.  young voters in texas have nothing to be motivated by...perhaps showing some actual balls will get him a little more momentum.  he will lose...bad.  but today has nothing to do with it.  and you slamming him is just more decorum whining from people who want to see change from people that laugh at you because they know you are feckless and powerless in this dumbfuck state (see abbott and patrick). 

No. I want him to call the pieces of shit out in a way that people dont dismiss on the chance they find his behavior inappropriate. If it's about changing minds or calling people to account, that means getting people to hear your message without dismissing it if they find it tasteless. If you're familiar with my posting history, then you know I don't personally give a fuck about about being tasteless, rude, or obnoxious. Often all at the same time. 

I'm not sure what you want me to say about the press conference. It was horrifying, and predictable. I watched damn near the whole thing. Patrick is disgusting. Abbot is disgusting. The speaker of the house was a predictable party line little shitstain. The fact the entire assemblage travelled to Uvalde for their PR shot was disgusting. These are all things I expect from those assembled. 

So...mission accomplished because Abbot and Patrick get to laugh at Beto again today for being feckless and powerless again? How is that a win?

anyway, agree to disagree. I don't think it's fair to saying I'm carrying their water when my criticism is he should have found a more effective way to be more brutal and savage to the fucks on that stage.  

[Neonmoon 38129]

50 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

The fact that Mr. O'Rourke is not an elected official with any jurisdiction in this matter, perhaps?

Decency and Decorum!

[hobbes2702 13029]

19 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think it's a bigger asshole move and political grandstanding to hold a press conference the day after a shooting to blame it on mental health, while at the same time stealing hundreds of millions in funding from state mental health services.

That's something only a sick son of a bitch would do.

It's not making it political to demand some fucking action to be taken after school after school is shot up. Standing back and claiming you can't do anything about it is making it political.

Fuck outta here like we shouldn't be full of rage at the decades of systemic failures that result in kids walking through metal detectors and doing shooter drills and thinking that's normal for school.

It is political because it should be. Politicians make our laws that allow this to happen. How can this be anything other than political? There’s a problem that needs to be solved and politicians aren’t solving it. Protest is inherently political and we need more of it.

[Godzillatron 292]

I didn't say that. 
But there is absolutely no difference in what they were doing at that PC than what he did.
 
 

Actually there's a huge difference. Whether you agree with what they're saying or not, everyone on that dias had a legal jurisdiction and standing on the matter. Beto is just an asshole private citizen yelling at a press conference.

[Js1 85296]

26 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

There wasn’t anyone else, probably because when your community is hit with something like this, your first instinct is not to make it political. It’s more like shocked grief.

This fucking happened once in Beto's community already.  Dude is tired as hell of seeing it happen in someone else's. 

[sidis 9825]

2 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

can we all get back to fervent prayers here, gentlemen?

sorry, i am busy "lifting these people up" with my thoughts and suing teenagers who had miscarriages to take part in your fervent praying.

 

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

No. I want him to call the pieces of shit out in a way that people dont dismiss on the chance they find his behavior inappropriate. If it's about changing minds or calling people to account, that means getting people to hear your message without dismissing it if they find it tasteless. If you're familiar with my posting history, then you know I don't personally give a fuck about about being tasteless, rude, or obnoxious. Often all at the same time. 

I'm not sure what you want me to say about the press conference. It was horrifying, and predictable. I watched damn near the whole thing. Patrick is disgusting. Abbot is disgusting. The speaker of the house was a predictable party line little shitstain. The fact the entire assemblage travelled to Uvalde for their PR shot was disgusting. These are all things I expect from those assembled. 

So...mission accomplished because Abbot and Patrick get to laugh at Beto again today for being feckless and powerless again? How is that a win?

anyway, agree to disagree. I don't think it's fair to saying I'm carrying their water when my criticism is he should have found a more effective way to be more brutal and savage to the fucks on that stage.  

i understand your point.  i don't think it is stupid or irrational or anything.  i just think it is another example of the democratic party's constant decision to bring piss to a shit fight.  taking the high road against these people has yielded no results.

is it possible that you turn out to be correct and there was a more strategically effective way for beto to go about this?  yes.  but it is also possible that showing a little bit of courage on something that he seems to actually believe in (say what you will about beto's political opportunism but he does seem genuinely passionate about gun control in just about the worst place on earth to advocate for such a thing) may have more positive effectiveness than you think.

but your takeaway posts from the press conference have bemoaned the tragic outcome that was beto's decisions and clutching peals as a result...instead of focusing on what the people that are actually in charge had to say about everything...and their political grandstanding.  that's what i mean when i say you are carrying their water.  attacking beto for them.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

This fucking happened once in Beto's community already.  Dude is tired as hell of seeing it happen in someone else's. 

So he should know better. 
 

13 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Can someone please inform me when the "right time" to demand accountability and change is, so I can put it on my calendar? Is it like a Teams meeting, or...?

I’m closer to believing the time was right than the place. The place was 100% wrong. 

[Godzillatron 292]

Tell us what the right place and right time are? Should we wait until the next time this happens. The right place and right time passed us years ago when a bunch of elementary school kids were murdered and we didn’t do anything about it. There is no wrong place or wrong time while politicians do nothing and our children get murdered in their fucking school

Hold his own fucking press conference. Call out the bullshit as he sees it if that's what he wants to do. You don't have to agree with me, I personally feel it was incredibly inappropriate and disrespectful to the citizens of Uvalde in general and to the local folks on that stage.

It might surprise you, I like Beto as a person and candidate. This was tone deaf, pandered to his base and cost him votes.

[SydneyCarton 48065]

1 minute ago, sidis said:

sorry, i am busy "lifting these people up" with my thoughts and suing teenagers who had miscarriages to take part in your fervent praying.

 

i understand your point.  i don't think it is stupid or irrational or anything.  i just think it is another example of the democratic party's constant decision to bring piss to a shit fight.  taking the high road against these people has yielded no results.

is it possible that you turn out to be correct and there was a more strategically effective way for beto to go about this?  yes.  but it is also possible that showing a little bit of courage on something that he seems to actually believe in (say what you will about beto's political opportunism but he does seem genuinely passionate about gun control in just about the worst place on earth to advocate for such a thing) may have more positive effectiveness than you think.

but your takeaway posts from the press conference have bemoaned the tragic outcome that was beto's decisions and clutching peals as a result...instead of focusing on what the people that are actually in charge had to say about everything...and their political grandstanding.  that's what i mean when i say you are carrying their water.  attacking beto for them.

I thought what he did was bringing piss to a shit fight. I'd prefer a shit cannon. That's my point.

Lol. What other comment do you want on the press conference? It's horseshit put on by horseshit people. And yeah, I'm pointing out that regular Joe will walk away talking about beto instead of listening to the press conference itself is counter-productive. And lookie here, what's going to happen? What are we doing? This exchange is literally proving my point, and I'm a sympathetic audience. But yeah, that's me carrying their water as opposed to bemoaning more unforced errors by dipshit democrats. 

[softlynow 1813]

Y'all can argue it all you want, but nobody knows right now, whether Beto's move pays off.

It was a gamble, to be sure. Sydney's thinking is the mainstream. The safe play. Schedule a rebuttal. Hope it gets press coverage, beyond the Tribune and some local tv affiliates. In most situations, Beto's scheduled PC gets little play. So in the coverage vein, this move worked. He is now solidly a part of this discussion.

There's also a real possibility that this school shooting is one too many. At some point that day will come. Is this the shooting that changes minds? The smart money is that it is not, but the smart money often sticks with the aging champion well past his prime.

For a campaign that most, including yours truly, gives little to no chance of winning, it was a fairly smart play. What does Beto have to lose if 18 children dead 5.5 months before an election doesn't move the needle with moderates? If it doesn't, he loses anyway.

[DDD Dad 14329]

18 minutes ago, Godzillatron said:

Actually there's a huge difference. Whether you agree with what they're saying or not, everyone on that dias had a legal jurisdiction and standing on the matter. Beto is just an asshole private citizen yelling at a press conference.

It would be okay if he was yelling at them about mask mandates though.

[Js1 85296]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

It would be okay if he was yelling at them about mask mandates though.

No that's different because, um...........

[DDD Dad 14329]

10 minutes ago, Godzillatron said:

This was tone deaf, pandered to his base and cost him votes.

Those weren't votes he was going to get anyway.

[Pam Cummings 9639]

3 minutes ago, softlynow said:

Y'all can argue it all you want, but nobody knows right now, whether Beto's move pays off.

It was a gamble, to be sure. Sydney's thinking is the mainstream. The safe play. Schedule a rebuttal. Hope it gets press coverage, beyond the Tribune and some local tv affiliates. In most situations, Beto's scheduled PC gets little play. So in the coverage vein, this move worked. He is now solidly a part of this discussion.

There's also a real possibility that this school shooting is one too many. At some point that day will come. Is this the shooting that changes minds? The smart money is that it is not, but the smart money often sticks with the aging champion well past his prime.

For a campaign that most, including yours truly, gives little to no chance of winning, it was a fairly smart play. What does Beto have to lose if 18 children dead 5.5 months before an election doesn't move the needle with moderates? If it doesn't, he loses anyway.

Yeah if you believe that it's hopeless anyway, then i don't see what Beto really had to lose here.

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[hobbes2702 13029]

8 minutes ago, Godzillatron said:

Hold his own fucking press conference. Call out the bullshit as he sees it if that's what he wants to do. You don't have to agree with me, I personally feel it was incredibly inappropriate and disrespectful to the citizens of Uvalde in general and to the local folks on that stage.

It might surprise you, I like Beto as a person and candidate. This was tone deaf, pandered to his base and cost him votes.

What’s inappropriate is politicians lying to the parents of dead kids about what happened and why.
I could give a fuck if someone thinks this will cost him votes. It won’t, that’s asinine. I care that someone is calling these people out to their face while they try to lie to us.

Decorum isn’t the issue. Dead children is.

[elguapo 4586]

"Good guy with a gun" is a fantasy

[DDD Dad 14329]

45 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Red flag laws won't stop every shooter (such as the Las Vegas shooter), but they can stop a lot of them.

Even without a criminal record, there's a solid chance that decent red flag laws could have caught him, or at least slowed down the process. The fact that the police had been out to his house to deal with shit going down between he and his mom should have been enough to put him on some kind of list.  Even if he was a minor at the time and then turned 18, such red flags shouldn't automatically go away.

It's really fucking frustrating, because so many of these shooters were known to law enforcement, mental health folks, schools, etc.  I've listed many in other threads, but it's actually kind of hard to find a school shooter who shouldn't have been thoroughly scrutinized and had the gun buying process slow-rolled, or had law enforcement remove guns from his household.  Almost every single one of them, a little digging turned up people who weren't surprised they went nuts.

We also need a better mental health system, but that's its own thread.  I have tried to get a relative committed (best word I can use) who clearly needed help, and these days there is not much you can do if they are functioning.  I've also dealt with the mental health folks at APD (actual trained APD cops) in regards to a neighbor's schizo son, and no matter how bad he got, as long as he didn't harm himself or others, it was easy for him to be out the next morning or evening.  Nobody wants a return to the days when families would get Uncle Ed locked up because he preferred to wear his wife's clothes and be called Aunt Edna, but there's got to be something better.

In terms red flag laws, we have some politicians and organizations who fight them tooth and nail as some kind of 2A issue, and they won't compromise.  We don't let an 8 year-old walk into a gun store and buy a rifle, we don't let Joe Blow walk in and buy a fully-automatic rifle, so there's obviously some restrictions they've had to accept.  If these folks don't want to back down on red flag laws, make it so the 18 year-olds can only buy single-shot rifles.  

Would that stop a relative giving an 18 year-old an AR-15?  Nope, but better red flag laws could go hand-in-hand with criminal liability laws - if a relative gives that 18 year-old an AR-15 and the kid shoots up a school, and there were clear signs that should have prevented that 18 year-old from owning a firearm without some serious scrutiny, put that relative on trial.

Unfortunately red flag laws are used by some organizations and individuals to fund-raise off of, and so they refuse to budge an inch.

But outside of those individuals or organizations, I sometimes wonder if the people most opposed to red flag laws are concerned they would be swept up in such red flag laws.

Figure this is once again appropriate to post (since I posted it back when it first came out and we were wringing our hands about mental health).

"But how can the mental health system stop gun violence when mental illness is so rarely the cause of it?"

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/podcasts/the-daily/gun-access-mentally-ill.html

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

3 minutes ago, elguapo said:

"Good guy with a gun" is a fantasy

brace yourselves, bernard is coming.

[Chopper 17230]

1 hour ago, Godzillatron said:

Regardless, wrong place wrong time

Did you appreciate Gerg & co. showing up cosplaying a sheriff. Always the right time for cosplay, right?

[softlynow 1813]

2 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

 

Hard hitting journalism right there. Lloyd Christmas would be riveted. But I guess the average tv news viewer needs this shit spelled out.