The American Death Spiral and Your Plan

[Blotto 23434]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

I believe we are one very charismatic leader away from starting a movement to get the country course-corrected.

I honestly thought Obama could be that guy, but as we know now, things got worse. And a lot on the right thought/think Trump is that guy and things continue to get worse. Charisma by itself doesn't achieve shit. 

I am of the opinion that the root cause of all of this bullshit is the fact that its harder and harder to get by for the 98%. Its better here than a lot of countries, but in general, its worse everywhere. Wealth is accumulating globally into the hands of the richest. There's just a lot of pissed off motherfuckers and the people in power use/exploit that anger to gain/solidify more power. 

Housing, healthcare, and education are three basic needs where the cost increases in the US are far outpacing the means of the commoner. I have always been a proponent of the free market capitalist system, but ANY economic system is subject to corruption and abuse without proper regulation and enforcement. The wealthy will always strive for more wealth, the powerful will always strive for more power . Without guardrails in place and vigilance to ensure those guardrails arent removed, you get what we have today. 

It used to be mainly a problem for poor people in the US, so while the poor people were pissed off, the middle class was happy to keep watching their sitcoms and eating at applebees because "it aint my problem". Now the middle class is feeling it, and the upper middle class aint far behind. So you have a larger and larger percentage of people that are pissed and feeling like they are getting screwed. 

I could post a bunch of graphs about the costs of healthcare, housing, education over time overlaid with wage growth, but we all know what those would look like. This is the graph that matters most to me (through 2018, but its probably only gotten worse since then). that yellow line is half the country. And most of the gains for the group shown as 50-90% is probably realized by the 85-90%. 

 

our government has sold out to the richest of the rich. And the rich have more and more money to keep throwing at policy makers to ensure they get richer. It works until it doesnt, and then the entire shitshow comes tumbling down. I dont care if its a democrat or a republican who does it, and i dont care if they are charismatic or the dullest fucker on earth. The only hope this country has is to fix this problem. Administrations come and go, but the ever growing wealth gap continues on. And so does the rage.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Blotto

[HenryJames 65890]

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

I copied it from the internet. 

That being said, I would love to live in Japan. Anywhere in Central America or South America is a hard pass in my book (for permanent relocation)

Looks like Clayton Bigsbys dream list.  
 

I’ve traveled to most of the continents for half a year to more, and while I enjoyed it, it was never home. Little bit jealous for those like @Fudge Nuggets who felt home once they got there. I couldn’t stand Asia. Mexico felt pretty close, but that was a decade ago and things have definitely deteriorated in the area I was living.   Bahamas was cool for a bit, then it wasn’t. Oz was probably the best, but it still wasn’t home.  User name checks but my biggest determination if I enjoy where I am is the food.  Bad food makes it so much more difficult to enjoy imo. 

[HenryJames 65890]

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I couldn’t stand Asia.

 

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Bad food makes it so much more difficult to enjoy imo. 

[MissingInAction 24824]

When the percentage of those with absolutely nothing to lose gets around 6% or so, we will see out right revolt. 

Could Sri Lanka happen here? Who knows.

[StassneyHorn 6540]

I couldn’t stand Asia

[Brisketexan 104628]

35 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Probably something like this:

 

overlooking this:

 

handful of Churrascarias and pizzerias in town. I’ll be alright.  

Argentina had crossed my mind, and southern Argentina in particular.  The people are decent, costs are low, land and food are beautiful.  But god, their government makes ours look functional.

[Foosters 17734]

gotta be dry and free of mosquitos. 

that's honestly it for me.

[fattyflattie 4636]

12 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

The food was all over the place, as you’d expect.  Asia was the first time I ever saw abject poverty mixed with extreme wealth.  Just didn’t care for my time there as much as others. Absolutely couldn’t live there. 
 

note - also, I was building my house then and was eating CHEAP. Like under $3/meal cheap. It was ok, didn’t always know what the protein was tho.  
 

I put the line in there specifically for the Bahamas and Oz.  No beef on the islands, and shit beef down under for a cattle producing country. 

[SimonBolivar 10932]

Give me Uruguay over Argentina

[South Austin 52144]

5 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

I couldn’t stand Asia

I think that's just a comment made in the heat of the moment.

[Biggus Duckus 79]

For those interested in Golden Visas, I would recommend this site: https://www.goldenvisas.com/

Portugal: 500k EUR real estate investment with some caveats (no Porto or Lisbon, those are now offlimits thanks to UK immigrants).

Spain: 500k EUR real estate investment

Greece: 250k EUR real estate investment

Germany does not have a golden visa program, but US citizens with bachelors degree or higher do not need a visa sponsorship to get a job.  They also have a freelance visa if you have the right skills.  Their new government wants to lower citizenship timeframe from 6-8 years to 3-5 years.  

Netherlands has a freelance visa for US citizens as well.  Easy to get residency but still a long path to permanent residence or citizenship (8 years).  Great quality of life, but you may have sticker shock when you see the average wages for your profession (spoiler: you will be taking a paycut).

IMHO, Spain is the best option if you are just looking for a place to buy to either start your residency timer or general living quality: easy language to learn (especially for Texans), good job market in Madrid or Barcelona, 500k will get you a villa if you so desire, etc.

[fattyflattie 4636]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Argentina had crossed my mind, and southern Argentina in particular.  The people are decent, costs are low, land and food are beautiful.  But god, their government makes ours look functional.

Wine, beef, and world class wing shooting. Yes please. 

[StassneyHorn 6540]

3 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I think that's just a comment made in the heat of the moment.

If he’s been to alot of Asian countries I’d get it, but stating an entire continent sucked is just a wild exaggeration.

[Brisketexan 104628]

13 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I think that's just a comment made in the heat of the moment.

[Firemans4Horn 17834]

42 minutes ago, Biggus Duckus said:

For those interested in Golden Visas, I would recommend this site: https://www.goldenvisas.com/

Portugal: 500k EUR real estate investment with some caveats (no Porto or Lisbon, those are now offlimits thanks to UK immigrants).

Spain: 500k EUR real estate investment

Greece: 250k EUR real estate investment

Germany does not have a golden visa program, but US citizens with bachelors degree or higher do not need a visa sponsorship to get a job.  They also have a freelance visa if you have the right skills.  Their new government wants to lower citizenship timeframe from 6-8 years to 3-5 years.  

Netherlands has a freelance visa for US citizens as well.  Easy to get residency but still a long path to permanent residence or citizenship (8 years).  Great quality of life, but you may have sticker shock when you see the average wages for your profession (spoiler: you will be taking a paycut).

IMHO, Spain is the best option if you are just looking for a place to buy to either start your residency timer or general living quality: easy language to learn (especially for Texans), good job market in Madrid or Barcelona, 500k will get you a villa if you so desire, etc.

Spain’s is ok if you are fine living there full time (at least 6 months each year) for 10 years before you get citizenship/passport. Spain also doesn’t allow duel national status so you’re supposed to unofficially renounce your US citizenship. Also harder to get work without a sponsorship. 
 

Portugal allows you to get citizenship after 5 years with only 7 days of residency required per year. They also allow dual-national status. 

[StassneyHorn 6540]

Belize Qualified Retirement Program is open to anyone who is 45 and can show 2k a month in retirement funds or 24k/year

https://belizetourismboard.org/programs-events/retirement-program/

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

2 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Argentina's the leader for me so far.

I'm not married to the idea of Argentina, but I am married to the idea of not-America.  Within 10 years.

i'm trying to get my wife on board with this plan. going to spend a month there next christmas. planning to check out some schools while we are there.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

i'm trying to get my wife on board with this plan. going to spend a month there next christmas. planning to check out some schools while we are there.

Bariloche area is amazing.  I'll post a photo of my dad and me fishing an utterly untraveled river down there in a bit.

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 hour ago, StassneyHorn said:

If he’s been to alot of Asian countries I’d get it, but stating an entire continent sucked is just a wild exaggeration.

You are right, should have been more specific.  Singapore, Malay, China, Vietnam and India. Cant speak to the rest.     

[Firemans4Horn 17834]

Anyone that trusts Argentina’s government, currency, and financial system with their assets is much braver than I. 

[YChang 3431]

Whoah, seriously, you visited some of the best culinary destinations in the world fatty.

35 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You are right, should have been more specific.  Singapore, Malay, China, Vietnam and India. Cant speak to the rest.     

Edited May 26, 2022 by YChang

[Macanudo 12928]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

But god, their government makes ours look functional.

You sure about that?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

19 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Anyone that trusts Argentina’s government, currency, and financial system with their assets is much braver than I. 

From what I understand everyone in Argentina spends their paycheck on payday because there is a decent chance it will be worth significantly less within a week. Or they do their best to convert to USD even accepting poor black market exchange rates.

[StassneyHorn 6540]

33 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You are right, should have been more specific.  Singapore, Malay, China, Vietnam and India. Cant speak to the rest.     

Was it the lack of ketchup? Just ribbing you, this list is preposterous though

[Biff Tannen 45499]

2 hours ago, Blotto said:

I honestly thought Obama could be that guy, but as we know now, things got worse. And a lot on the right thought/think Trump is that guy and things continue to get worse. Charisma by itself doesn't achieve shit. 

I am of the opinion that the root cause of all of this bullshit is the fact that its harder and harder to get by for the 98%. Its better here than a lot of countries, but in general, its worse everywhere. Wealth is accumulating globally into the hands of the richest. There's just a lot of pissed off motherfuckers and the people in power use/exploit that anger to gain/solidify more power. 

Housing, healthcare, and education are three basic needs where the cost increases in the US are far outpacing the means of the commoner. I have always been a proponent of the free market capitalist system, but ANY economic system is subject to corruption and abuse without proper regulation and enforcement. The wealthy will always strive for more wealth, the powerful will always strive for more power . Without guardrails in place and vigilance to ensure those guardrails arent removed, you get what we have today. 

It used to be mainly a problem for poor people in the US, so while the poor people were pissed off, the middle class was happy to keep watching their sitcoms and eating at applebees because "it aint my problem". Now the middle class is feeling it, and the upper middle class aint far behind. So you have a larger and larger percentage of people that are pissed and feeling like they are getting screwed. 

I could post a bunch of graphs about the costs of healthcare, housing, education over time overlaid with wage growth, but we all know what those would look like. This is the graph that matters most to me (through 2018, but its probably only gotten worse since then). that yellow line is half the country. And most of the gains for the group shown as 50-90% is probably realized by the 85-90%. 

 

our government has sold out to the richest of the rich. And the rich have more and more money to keep throwing at policy makers to ensure they get richer. It works until it doesnt, and then the entire shitshow comes tumbling down. I dont care if its a democrat or a republican who does it, and i dont care if they are charismatic or the dullest fucker on earth. The only hope this country has is to fix this problem. Administrations come and go, but the ever growing wealth gap continues on. And so does the rage.

This is maybe the best summation of where we currently are that I have seen.  It really is this simple.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

33 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Anyone that trusts Argentina’s government, currency, and financial system with their assets is much braver than I. 

You can live like a king down there without having to roll the dice on your assets.

[Dbeasy 14969]

2 hours ago, Blotto said:

I honestly thought Obama could be that guy, but as we know now, things got worse. And a lot on the right thought/think Trump is that guy and things continue to get worse. Charisma by itself doesn't achieve shit. 

I am of the opinion that the root cause of all of this bullshit is the fact that its harder and harder to get by for the 98%. Its better here than a lot of countries, but in general, its worse everywhere. Wealth is accumulating globally into the hands of the richest. There's just a lot of pissed off motherfuckers and the people in power use/exploit that anger to gain/solidify more power. 

Housing, healthcare, and education are three basic needs where the cost increases in the US are far outpacing the means of the commoner. I have always been a proponent of the free market capitalist system, but ANY economic system is subject to corruption and abuse without proper regulation and enforcement. The wealthy will always strive for more wealth, the powerful will always strive for more power . Without guardrails in place and vigilance to ensure those guardrails arent removed, you get what we have today. 

It used to be mainly a problem for poor people in the US, so while the poor people were pissed off, the middle class was happy to keep watching their sitcoms and eating at applebees because "it aint my problem". Now the middle class is feeling it, and the upper middle class aint far behind. So you have a larger and larger percentage of people that are pissed and feeling like they are getting screwed. 

I could post a bunch of graphs about the costs of healthcare, housing, education over time overlaid with wage growth, but we all know what those would look like. This is the graph that matters most to me (through 2018, but its probably only gotten worse since then). that yellow line is half the country. And most of the gains for the group shown as 50-90% is probably realized by the 85-90%. 

 

our government has sold out to the richest of the rich. And the rich have more and more money to keep throwing at policy makers to ensure they get richer. It works until it doesnt, and then the entire shitshow comes tumbling down. I dont care if its a democrat or a republican who does it, and i dont care if they are charismatic or the dullest fucker on earth. The only hope this country has is to fix this problem. Administrations come and go, but the ever growing wealth gap continues on. And so does the rage.

I have been a strong advocate of the fact that wealth concentration is probably the biggest issue we face as a nation and world (setting aside climate change for a minute). 

The problem is that we have two political parties incapable of either addressing it effectively, or even being able to clearly articulate that it is a massive issue that needs to be addressed asap. 

When it gets bad enough, new forces will emerge. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Dbeasy

[YChang 3431]

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I have been a strong advocate of the fact that wealth concentration is probably the biggest issue we face as a nation and world (setting aside climate change for a minute). 

The problem is that we have two political parties incapable of either addressing it effectively, or even being able to clearly articulate that it is a massive issue that needs to be addressed asap. 

When it gets bad enough, new forces will emerge. 

Another way the Russians/commies screwed us. After the Cold War, some of our politicians started conflating capitalism with democracy. And before you know it the free market is talked about more and more. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

The problem is that we have two political parties incapable of either addressing it effectively, or even being able to clearly articulate that it is a massive issue that needs to be addressed asap. 

you think the republican party thinks it's a massive issue that needs to be addressed?

[Doc Sam Beckett 5784]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Wine, beef, and world class wing shooting. Yes please. 

The ultimate owning the libs move: follow us to our "escape crazy conservatives paradise." I'd fucking hate you if it wasn't such a brilliant idea. 

[WBT 20422]

37 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

From what I understand everyone in Argentina spends their paycheck on payday because there is a decent chance it will be worth significantly less within a week. Or they do their best to convert to USD even accepting poor black market exchange rates.

When I was down there the operators offered to buy as many dollars as I was willing to sell at far better than the official exchange rate.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

13 minutes ago, WBT said:

When I was down there the operators offered to buy as many dollars as I was willing to sell at far better than the official exchange rate.

Yes but the reverse is true when someone wants to buy dollars. They get a worse exchange rate than the official rate. And citizens can only buy a small amount of USD under the official exchange rates.

[Brisketexan 104628]

This was a LONG-ass time ago (pic isn't even digital), but we spent several days in the Bariloche area.  Fished the Rio Pichilefu -- small river, lots of fish.  Caught 8-12 inch trout ALL DAY, for two days in a row.  In the pic below, I'd found a nice pool that swept up against a boulder.  I could put a beadhead prince at the top of the pool, and have a fish on every drift for 8-10 casts.  Incredibly beautiful place.  Didn't see another human other than our group of 3 all day long.
 

[HenryJames 65890]

34 minutes ago, YChang said:

Another way the Russians/commies screwed us. After the Cold War, some of our politicians started conflating capitalism with democracy. And before you know it the free market is talked about more and more. 

The Cold War ending showed that most right wingers were more anti-communist than pro-democracy.

[Macanudo 12928]

51 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

you think the republican party thinks it's a massive issue that needs to be addressed?

And do you think either party really does?   The AOCs and Bernies of the world don't run the DNC.  

[F250 28691]

6 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

my wife is one generation removed from a free Irish visa, otherwise we might already be there.  Maybe they relax that a little to help some folks out. 

We were interested in pursuing this awhile back. Not for escapism but as a means of getting EU citizenship to settle in Spain. The wife qualifies because both sets of grandparents were born Irish citizens. Unfortunately we are now divorced.

[Starfleet Command 441]

The US has a lot of natural advantages that aren't going away anytime soon, so i'm not sure if I subscribe to this doom-and-gloom terminal decline narrative.  However, if that does come to pass, I think our last opportunity to effect meaningful change was with Obama's administration, which was ultimately a failure.

[C-Man 27058]

I love Colorado and could see myself there some day. The Caribbean is damn enticing too though climate change could wreak havoc down there. As long as I have an exit strategy in advance of hurricanes, I'm good. Wife loves it down there and loves boat life. I also dig South Carolina, though the politics aren't any better there. I sure prefer it over today's Texas though.

[F250 28691]

13 minutes ago, Starfleet Command said:

The US has a lot of natural advantages that aren't going away anytime soon, so i'm not sure if I subscribe to this doom-and-gloom terminal decline narrative. 

Agree. This thread is more of a monument to upper middle class privilege than anything else.

We get to talk about all of the countries we have visited for college, vacation and work while agreeing dropping a half a million dollars to move to another country is a good deal.

Peak shitlib.

[Ojo Rojo 1906]

This school shooting thing may have pushed me over the edge. The only thing really rooting me to Texas and the U.S. is my kids and my other family. As I've posted elsewhere on this board, my middle kid had some problems in school this year that were very hard to deal with. He's going to a different school next year, he's now on meds and receiving additional treatment.  If none of that works and he still has a shit school experience then I'm selling my house and we're going to buy a sailboat and do the liveaboard thing and homeschool our kids for a year. See how it goes, reassess. My parents and brothers can come visit us in the Bahamas, Grenada, BVI, Azores, Greece, South Pacific, wherever the fuck we are.

[Neonmoon 38127]

21 minutes ago, Starfleet Command said:

The US has a lot of natural advantages that aren't going away anytime soon, so i'm not sure if I subscribe to this doom-and-gloom terminal decline narrative.  However, if that does come to pass, I think our last opportunity to effect meaningful change was with Obama's administration, which was ultimately a failure.

Curious about these natural advantages 

[SimonBolivar 10932]

[Dbeasy 14969]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

you think the republican party thinks it's a massive issue that needs to be addressed?

Of course not. That’s why I said they can’t. The republicans can’t because they are owned by the wealthy and have been brainwashed into thinking that’s democracy. The Democrats can’t because they have the communication skills of a regard. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Within the US I'm very happy with where I am after having left Texas.  Love it.   But, not being Surly elite, there is always the possibly of  lose everything my wife and I have with some kind of long term medical issue as we age.  That's the reason I would leave--Universal Healthcare.  I'd gladly give up a decent amount of tax money for it as well.  And I don't think it is ever happening here. The distinct possibility of being destitute as an elderly citizen due to medical costs scares me.

However, I'm an older person with younger children.  I know I'm here at least through their high school years.  So after that, I'm much close to retirement age than go to a foreign country and work age.    So most likely going down with the ship and working like hell to stay as healthy as possible.  

[Biggus Duckus 79]

I would also recommend spending a month's subscription on Ancestry to see if you have any "citizenship by blood" or jus sanguinis possibilities.  If you have a paternal grandparent or great-grandparent from Italy, or a German ancestor who immigrated to the US after 1904, that opens up a lot of options.  There are other countries that have these laws as well.

[berlinerbaer 670]

5 hours ago, F250 said:

Agree. This thread is more of a monument to upper middle class privilege than anything else.

We get to talk about all of the countries we have visited for college, vacation and work while agreeing dropping a half a million dollars to move to another country is a good deal.

Peak shitlib.

So much this. Disturbing that some of you would rather move to Belize or somewhere else to be utterly surrounded by poverty.

If you look white, are older, male, and in the top 10% economically, America is and always will be structurally built to support you regardless of the status of democracy or how hot it is. 

 

6 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Curious about these natural advantages 

Big oceans on both sides to keep the meanies out. A still-growing population that can support the elderly.

Think about it. Europe may seem nice, but they are dependent on the outside for energy (Russia and ME), protection (US), and food. When there are global shocks, they always feel it more. I would rather have internal challenges to deal with than be under the thumb of a foreign power or have to worry about asshole neighbors.

Besides, if America goes to shit, all the benefits of being American will go with it. Your dollars won't be worth that much anymore.

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

4 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Within the US I'm very happy with where I am after having left Texas.  Love it.   But, not being Surly elite, there is always the possibly of  lose everything my wife and I have with some kind of long term medical issue as we age.  That's the reason I would leave--Universal Healthcare.  I'd gladly give up a decent amount of tax money for it as well.  And I don't think it is ever happening here. The distinct possibility of being destitute as an elderly citizen due to medical costs scares me.

However, I'm an older person with younger children.  I know I'm here at least through their high school years.  So after that, I'm much close to retirement age than go to a foreign country and work age.    So most likely going down with the ship and working like hell to stay as healthy as possible.  

If that’s your concern, purchase the correct insurance for that and cross it off the list. 

[StassneyHorn 6540]

1 hour ago, berlinerbaer said:

So much this. Disturbing that some of you would rather move to Belize or somewhere else to be utterly surrounded by poverty.

 

Life is about timing, if you can't see the development and money rushing into San Pedro that's on you.

[Fastbreak 3959]

I just celebrated my 7th year living in Singapore and before that I did 3 years in Canada (with 1 year back in the states between). The only thing I miss is game day, but the transfer portal and NIL even makes me give less of a fuck about that.