Andor

[DeepEastTexas 640]

Should probably start a Tales of the Jedi thread. It's great too, especially if you're a Clone Wars fan. 

[Captainant 27669]

[Speedtrucker 2071]

Funny but… noir gets killed by him like 10 min later…

[Captainant 27669]

2 minutes ago, Speedtrucker said:

Funny but… noir gets killed by him like 10 min later…

I'm not sure that we've watched the same version of The Boys then lol

[texhorn 351]

That episode was preeettyy, pretty good.

[closetohumping 17442]

Great show, great acting and great storytelling.  The jail security measures are clever and imaginative

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

I'm curious how he figures out how to escape. Given his character, that has to be going through his mind. Or will he get rescued somehow or there be some kind of attack on the prison that gives him a chance? Obviously, the guys throwing gang signs at each other from across the tubes are gonna have something to do with it, but I'm ready to see how it all goes down. 

They've also done a great job of getting me invested the story of the empire and what happens to the inspector guy. 

I said it before, but this has a completely different feel than anything that has come from Filoni and crew, which is a good thing without knocking on the work he's done. I love the Filoni stuff, but this is a new take on parts of the universe that is just as rewarding. 

[Pato del Muerto 52499]

Could they have put in a small amount of work to hide the ski boots?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

I mean, they are already using AK-47 variants for their blasters, so...

Han Solo's blaster was pretty much a doctored up Mauser C96, which would have been an iconic collector's firearm anyhow. We have a guy running out with an Ice Cream maker in ESB. As mentioned, they basically took a stock AK-47 variant for the current rebels. I don't think we should be too surprised if they are just using run of the mill ski boots for props.

[Pato del Muerto 52499]

If you saw the ILM series on d+, they talk about using potatoes for some of the asteroids in the OT. 

[Speedtrucker 2071]

Could they have put in a small amount of work to hide the ski boots?

I think that’s part of it though.

Andor while scoping them out saw that it doesn’t take much to throw them off as guards. There isn’t much to their security team other than the electrified floor.

They don’t even put guards inside the prison itself, so their view is overtly “you wouldn’t even try it!”

[closetohumping 17442]

He seems to be really at ease in prison too.  

[Duval Street 420]

Never imagined Saw being an X-Wing pilot, but then I wasn’t much interested in him/his gang in R1.

I hope we get to see how he becomes broken-down Saw…X-Wing goes down?  Maybe the wreckage in Jedha in R1?

[Speedtrucker 2071]

Never imagined Saw being an X-Wing pilot, but then I wasn’t much interested in him/his gang in R1.
I hope we get to see how he becomes broken-down Saw…X-Wing goes down?  Maybe the wreckage in Jedha in R1?

Saw’s Renegades flew early model Xwings and Uwings in the X-wing miniatures game.

I don’t think Saw was an actual pilot.

[MissingInAction 25078]

On 10/22/2022 at 9:31 AM, mdmost said:

Space Florida made me chuckle. I love that they are showing the dirty side of the Rebellion and how they made people suffer to further their goals. 

 Cassian becoming a victim of what he caused and drawn back into the rebellion due his own actions is just clever af.

[mdmost 43001]

Yes and that prison planet is just brutal. I love them showing how awful things got under the Empire. The writing on this show is so good. The Saw monologue was the type of writing Star Wars has never had. Poor Cyril thought he was going to get his big break. Instead, the Empire just used him for his information and told him to go back to be a cog in the machine. 

And Mon Mothma can get it. She is quite fetching. 

[mdmost 43001]

On 10/27/2022 at 11:22 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

Could they have put in a small amount of work to hide the ski boots?

It's there to show you two things: 1. Cassian is incredibly observant and is already plotting how to get out 2. The security is as lax and arrogant as the Empire gets. We don't need to worry about much because we have electrified floors. At any point Cassian could've attacked the guards during the shift change. I would imagine that will play into his escape plans. 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

On 10/27/2022 at 7:04 AM, Captainant said:

I really like the writing in this show - Cassian ended up in an imperial work prison because he bailed on his crew and went to space Miami to lay low. Now he is going to get it beaten into him that there is no lying low with the empire, and that you can't make it through that sort of oppression on your own. You'll get quickly killed instead of slowly ground down if you don't support your brothers alongside you in resisting. I can't wait to see what happens with the prison sign language 

It's a really nice contrast against the Saw Guererra monologue where nobody would pass his purity test and so he refused to get involved with the cause. Doubled in as well with the elite do-nothing class debating the idea of the PORD (the space patriot act) while cutting back to a shell shocked Cassian in a 6 year sentence for looking suspicious and resisting arrest. 

Just phenomenal stuff. 

 

It appears he lost all his money too. So happy there's finally a good star wars.

[Buzzrock 14920]

This show is really good. I’m really digging it. Grittier than anything we’ve seen in live action SW. I like that the plot isn’t always easy: Saw was like “Nah Luthen you can fuck off. Come back with a better pitch.”

And I’ve mentioned it before but holy shit Bix is gorgeous. Reminds me of the days when prime Charlize Theron, Jessica Alba, Kate Beckinsale and the like roamed the earth. She’s a stunner. IMDb says she was in True Detective but I don’t remember that.

[mdmost 43001]

That's because she was in season 2 of True Detective, i.e. the one everyone would love to forget. She played the motorcycle cop's girlfriend. 

[billfromlaketravis 11481]

5 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

This show is really good. I’m really digging it. Grittier than anything we’ve seen in live action SW. I like that the plot isn’t always easy: Saw was like “Nah Luthen you can fuck off. Come back with a better pitch.”

And I’ve mentioned it before but holy shit Bix is gorgeous. Reminds me of the days when prime Charlize Theron, Jessica Alba, Kate Beckinsale and the like roamed the earth. She’s a stunner. IMDb says she was in True Detective but I don’t remember that.

She played Tim Riggin’s girlfriend in Season 2. Some good scenes, but a pretty small part. 

[Buzzrock 14920]

That's because she was in season 2 of True Detective, i.e. the one everyone would love to forget. She played the motorcycle cop's girlfriend. 

That would explain it.

[The Dog 44053]

[Murfdogg21 4412]

On 10/29/2022 at 2:09 PM, MagicSoccerSpray said:

It appears he lost all his money too. So happy there's finally a good star wars.

Maybe that space florida hooker didn’t know he stashed his loot above the shower head?

Between the hooker and Cassian’s time in prison, Bix is going to end up with space aids. Jyn Erso should consider herself lucky. 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

On 10/28/2022 at 9:41 AM, Speedtrucker said:

Saw’s Renegades flew early model Xwings and Uwings in the X-wing miniatures game.

I don’t think Saw was an actual pilot.

Yeah IIRC in Rebels also.

I kind of a remember a storyline in Rebels of how they were able to get their hands on the X-Wings, but don't recall specifically. Early on all they had were old, Republic-era Y-Wings.

[DeepEastTexas 640]

3 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Yeah IIRC in Rebels also.

I kind of a remember a storyline in Rebels of how they were able to get their hands on the X-Wings, but don't recall specifically. Early on all they had were old, Republic-era Y-Wings.

There was an episode where they stole Y-Wings, I don't remember anything specific to X-Wings.  

[henrygandorf 29191]

the empire jail is terrible and soul-crushing.  hearing that doing well on the assembly line is the only way to get food with taste gave me tom herman breakfast flashbacks.

[Amos Moses 795]

the empire jail is terrible and soul-crushing.  hearing that doing well on the assembly line is the only way to get food with taste gave me tom herman breakfast flashbacks.

Perhaps they can find new ways to motivate you.

[huge 3793]

I am altering the deal

Pray I don’t alter it any further

[Nivek 16930]

I mean, they are already using AK-47 variants for their blasters, so...
Han Solo's blaster was pretty much a doctored up Mauser C96, which would have been an iconic collector's firearm anyhow. We have a guy running out with an Ice Cream maker in ESB. As mentioned, they basically took a stock AK-47 variant for the current rebels. I don't think we should be too surprised if they are just using run of the mill ski boots for props.

I seem to recall the stormtroopers using a gun that looked like an MG42.

[Nivek 16930]

I really like the writing in this show - Cassian ended up in an imperial work prison because he bailed on his crew and went to space Miami to lay low. Now he is going to get it beaten into him that there is no lying low with the empire, and that you can't make it through that sort of oppression on your own. You'll get quickly killed instead of slowly ground down if you don't support your brothers alongside you in resisting. I can't wait to see what happens with the prison sign language 
It's a really nice contrast against the Saw Guererra monologue where nobody would pass his purity test and so he refused to get involved with the cause. Doubled in as well with the elite do-nothing class debating the idea of the PORD (the space patriot act) while cutting back to a shell shocked Cassian in a 6 year sentence for looking suspicious and resisting arrest. 
Just phenomenal stuff. 

He didn’t bail on his crew. He was hired to do one job and that’s it. One of the crew attempted to backstab the others and he knew the leader wasn’t happy that he was brought along, nor that he disobeyed her to try to save one guys life.

His judgement to not stick around was correct as they consider him a loose end.

[Captainant 27669]

8 minutes ago, Nivek said:

He didn’t bail on his crew. He was hired to do one job and that’s it. One of the crew attempted to backstab the others and he knew the leader wasn’t happy that he was brought along, nor that he disobeyed her to try to save one guys life.

His judgement to not stick around was correct as they consider him a loose end.

I suppose it is overstating it to say the he bailed on his crew, but they were his comrades in his own struggle for freedom. Just like Nemek was trying to tell Cassian, they have to stand together otherwise the empire will crush them individually. 

Narratively, Cassian will see Nemeks words in action as the prisoners conspire to break out. 

Cassian's decision to run - while right for Cassian the individual - showed that he was not on the side of the rebels. And if you aren't for the rebels, you're intrinsically just another asset for the empire to exploit, including to get some juicy Intel like how Axis's ship is a sweet Fondor made custom job ship. 

It's not personal for Vel, she's just eliminating resources that the empire would otherwise exploit to crush the rebellion. It echoes how for Cassian it wasn't personal to shoot Skeen, it just became apparent that there was no other option to stop him from stealing the creds and abandoning/killing everyone. IMO, it's a very intentional playing with the gray area that comes with fighting a lawful fascist government 

[Nivek 16930]

10 hours ago, Captainant said:

I suppose it is overstating it to say the he bailed on his crew, but they were his comrades in his own struggle for freedom. Just like Nemek was trying to tell Cassian, they have to stand together otherwise the empire will crush them individually. 

Narratively, Cassian will see Nemeks words in action as the prisoners conspire to break out. 

Cassian's decision to run - while right for Cassian the individual - showed that he was not on the side of the rebels. And if you aren't for the rebels, you're intrinsically just another asset for the empire to exploit, including to get some juicy Intel like how Axis's ship is a sweet Fondor made custom job ship. 

It's not personal for Vel, she's just eliminating resources that the empire would otherwise exploit to crush the rebellion. It echoes how for Cassian it wasn't personal to shoot Skeen, it just became apparent that there was no other option to stop him from stealing the creds and abandoning/killing everyone. IMO, it's a very intentional playing with the gray area that comes with fighting a lawful fascist government 

I don't think they were ever his comrades, except for the younger guy (Nemik) and to some extent Luthen by way of the contract and the respect he was shown (and the help to escape and the money he made to take care of his family and debts).   Again he didn't run away, the mission was over, he completed his contract, was paid out, and left while everyone was safe, even if it was a bit abrupt.   Luthen's respect for Andor can only have grown having discovered and eliminated the treachery(Skeen) and being a man of his word.  Andor could have stolen all the money and split or much more, but he understood what it would be used for.   Vel might be softening on him a bit, but she would have killed him.  He was right to be rid of her as well.

I think you are falling for trap of "only a sith deals in absolutes."   He can exist outside the rebellion (as does Saw) and still be against the Empire.  He just wants to escape them and find his sister.  He lost everything to the empire (family, planet, adopted family) and now his freedom.   He hates the Empire, and he definitely has found he can live with harming or killing people when he thinks it is necessary.   

[Captainant 27669]

59 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I don't think they were ever his comrades, except for the younger guy (Nemik) and to some extent Luthen by way of the contract and the respect he was shown (and the help to escape and the money he made to take care of his family and debts).   Again he didn't run away, the mission was over, he completed his contract, was paid out, and left while everyone was safe, even if it was a bit abrupt.   Luthen's respect for Andor can only have grown having discovered and eliminated the treachery(Skeen) and being a man of his word.  Andor could have stolen all the money and split or much more, but he understood what it would be used for.   Vel might be softening on him a bit, but she would have killed him.  He was right to be rid of her as well.

I think you are falling for trap of "only a sith deals in absolutes."   He can exist outside the rebellion (as does Saw) and still be against the Empire.  He just wants to escape them and find his sister.  He lost everything to the empire (family, planet, adopted family) and now his freedom.   He hates the Empire, and he definitely has found he can live with harming or killing people when he thinks it is necessary.   

I'd argue that Saw is the cautionary tale of what happens when you just take your piece and go to hide from the empire while the empire is actively oppressing people and growing. It takes more than just not doing the wrong thing to defeat the empire - you must recognize that in the empire, it's the empire against everyone else. It doesn't matter if they're galactic partitionists or lost, as long as they can fight against the empire and be used as a tool, it's just. Just like how Nemik (Nemek? sp?) wrote in his manifesto after meeting Cassian. 

From Vel's perspective, it doesn't matter if Cassian the individual hates the empire. It's not his choice what he does if he's not all-in against the empire.

We've seen through Cassian how the empire will use your body as a tool for oppression, and we are going to see through Bix (or the aftermath at least) how the empire will use your mind and knowledge as a tool for oppression by torturing her for info about the rebels. 

Vel is worried that the empire will also use Cassian's mind and knowledge to take down the infant rebellion. It's not about Cassian the individual, it's about Cassian the tool.

[Nivek 16930]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

I'd argue that Saw is the cautionary tale of what happens when you just take your piece and go to hide from the empire while the empire is actively oppressing people and growing. It takes more than just not doing the wrong thing to defeat the empire - you must recognize that in the empire, it's the empire against everyone else. It doesn't matter if they're galactic partitionists or lost, as long as they can fight against the empire and be used as a tool, it's just. Just like how Nemik (Nemek? sp?) wrote in his manifesto after meeting Cassian. 

From Vel's perspective, it doesn't matter if Cassian the individual hates the empire. It's not his choice what he does if he's not all-in against the empire.

We've seen through Cassian how the empire will use your body as a tool for oppression, and we are going to see through Bix (or the aftermath at least) how the empire will use your mind and knowledge as a tool for oppression by torturing her for info about the rebels. 

Vel is worried that the empire will also use Cassian's mind and knowledge to take down the infant rebellion. It's not about Cassian the individual, it's about Cassian the tool.

I don't think that defines Saw at all.  He is a terrorist rebel leader who will use any means necessary to achieve his end and while he may be aligned with some of the goals of the Rebels (or Rebel Alliance) he is definitely not going to join them or become subordinate to them but there is the option to support one another if the situation arises.

Vel is a Rebel and a soldier in her own right, she overlooked Skeen, was willing to sacrifice Nemik for the cause and follows orders.  She distrusted Andor and resented that he was being paid, she underestimated him and his value and was a bit petulant because she is rigid in her thinking of who the Rebels are and who they are not.   Andor is not a Rebel he is just a mercenary to her.   But she isn't a monster, she isn't like Saw who would torture random people to find out they are innocent and give zero fucks.   But I think she would torture someone if she thought it would help.   I don't think she has a binary view of the situation at all.  I think she sees that there are people oppressed and that their efforts benefit the Empire but that some farmer who sells grain to the Empire shouldn't just be murdered for making a living.   But that is a projection on my behalf.

It was Luthan's assistant who ordered the killing of Andor.  I am not sure Luthen agrees. 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

This discussion just underscores how fucking good the writing is on this show.

Pretty much everyone is operating in shades of gray and they all think they are doing the right thing.

The internal politics of both the nascent Rebellion and the Empire/ISB has been so damn entertaining to watch. 

[Speedtrucker 2071]

Agreed.

And yeah Saw Gerrera is the cautionary tale of the Star Wars universe.

He goes from partisan loyalist fighting the separatist, fighting along side the Jedi to insurgent freedom fighter against the early imperial over reach. And finally what we’ve seen in Rebels, R1, Andor is the more and more paranoid extremist/terrorist that doesn’t trust the rebellion as a whole since he faught against different members of said rebellion at times

[oSuJeff97 3435]

19 minutes ago, Speedtrucker said:

Agreed.

And yeah Saw Gerrera is the cautionary tale of the Star Wars universe.

He goes from partisan loyalist fighting the separatist, fighting along side the Jedi to insurgent freedom fighter against the early imperial over reach. And finally what we’ve seen in Rebels, R1, Andor is the more and more paranoid extremist/terrorist that doesn’t trust the rebellion as a whole since he faught against different members of said rebellion at times

Yeah and speaking of the Separatists, both this show and the Count Dooku episodes of Tales of the Jedi are sort of re-framing the Separatists (or at least pieces of it) as sort of a proto-Rebellion.

 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

Goooooooood

[rantanamo 143]

Another great episode(9). Syril my guy🤣, what you trying to do?😈

[NorthLoop 14205]

28 minutes ago, rantanamo said:

Another great episode(9). Syril my guy🤣, what you trying to do?😈

Yeah are they gonna fuck? I think she low key wants to. Her assistant wants to fuck her and she's not having it. Maybe she'll replace him with Syril. 

 

I have a good feeling about this upcoming prison break. Gonna be a fun ride. 

[Surly Bevo 24908]

The tension this show is able to create in episodes that have pretty much zero action is very very impressive.

[Js1 85339]

4 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

The tension this show is able to create in episodes that have pretty much zero action is very very impressive.

Truly is. This is maybe the best SW content ive ever watched 

[Surly Bevo 24908]

The series and this episode in particular also pay forward how Cassian ends up taking such a liking to Jyn in Rogue One and her hope angle....since at the moment the situation seems pretty fucking hopeless.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Surly Bevo

[Levi 2586]

56 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

The tension this show is able to create in episodes that have pretty much zero action is very very impressive.

The first scene with Bix and Dedra was so damn good.  

Edited November 3, 2022 by Levi

[Levi 2586]

 

[closetohumping 17442]

6 hours ago, NorthLoop said:

Yeah are they gonna fuck? I think she low key wants to. Her assistant wants to fuck her and she's not having it. Maybe she'll replace him with Syril. 

 

I have a good feeling about this upcoming prison break. Gonna be a fun ride. 

Oh I bet money it's going to happen.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

Man, I'm glad they didn't dump this all at once. I'd have to call in to work for a couple days and find some Adderall. 

[Captainant 27669]

Damn I just realized the lights dimmed in the prison because of how much juice they were pumping into the floors to fry level 2. This is a pretty fucking grim display of imperial justice to just shove that much mass death in our face as we watch an old man get euthanized after a stroke because he's no longer useful labor. 

But wouldn't you know it, that oppression bred rebellion into Kino.

 

Oh yeah and torture by way of amplified and intensified screams of dying children under a massacre? God fucking damn, Disney!

This is some seriously grimdark stuff. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Captainant

[Radical Larry 28621]

The Empire creates its own rebels.