Britney Griner

[Baboontyme 2809]

Regardless of collegiate or political affiliations she is in an extremely vulnerable position. I don't pretend to know the politics of the situation but my understanding is that there was a time to be low key on this and that time has now expired and more noise is a good thing. Sign the petition if you please. If not kindly refrain from commenting.

https://www.change.org/p/secure-brittney-griner-s-swift-and-safe-return-to-the-u-s

[SL Xpress 7513]

2 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

Regardless of collegiate or political affiliations she is in an extremely vulnerable position. I don't pretend to know the politics of the situation but my understanding is that there was a time to be low key on this and that time has now expired and more noise is a good thing. Sign the petition if you please. If not kindly refrain from commenting.

https://www.change.org/p/secure-brittney-griner-s-swift-and-safe-return-to-the-u-s

 

I'm all in favor of anyone who wants to sign the petition, but I don't understand how more noise helps. It's not going to change Russia's position. I'm sure if the US promised not to send any more weapons to Ukraine they'd release her pretty quick. What more do you want to be done? Send commandos in to break her out of Russia?

[ztejas 43411]

1 hour ago, SL Xpress said:

 

I'm all in favor of anyone who wants to sign the petition, but I don't understand how more noise helps. It's not going to change Russia's position. I'm sure if the US promised not to send any more weapons to Ukraine they'd release her pretty quick. What more do you want to be done? Send commandos in to break her out of Russia?

Yeah she's a very high profile WNBA player. I'd imagine the state dept. is doing plenty to try and get her home. Not sure how a change.org petition is going to affect the situation. (and I went ahead and signed it because why not)

Edited May 29, 2022 by ztejas

[shadow_operative 15932]

last two posts remind me of this, starting at 3:45:

 

[ztejas 43411]

All I know is she picked a hell of a country to get detained in. She'd have better luck getting out of North Korea or Iran right now. I wouldn't be surprised if this has to get resolved politically on a larger scale before anything happens. 

[SL Xpress 7513]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

All I know is she picked a hell of a country to get detained in. She'd have better luck getting out of North Korea or Iran right now. I wouldn't be surprised if this has to get resolved politically on a larger scale before anything happens. 

 

Well, it wasn't like it was happenstance. Neither North Korea nor Iran pay women basketball players over $1m a year for a season that doesn't conflict with the US schedule. But Russia does. She's been going over there in the offseason for 5 years, I think? It's been a while. A lot of women athletes have. She made a lot more over there than she did playing in the WNBA.

And what she got detained for was cannabis oil like you buy over the counter and put in a vape pipe. Not actually marijuana. It's sold in states that haven't even legalized marijuana. I'm sure she didn't think anything of it. Not saying it was smart, but I'm sure she traveled with it plenty of times with no issue. Then Russia wants a high profile American athlete to lock behind bars to make political points out of, and Griner was it. Given how anti LBGTQ+ Putin and the Russian Federation is officially, her lifestyle was probably a big bonus for them. 

It's a terrible situation. I don't blame people for starting petitions and signing them. It's a very helpless feeling, and people want to feel like they're doing something - anything - about it. But realistically making noise isn't going to help. It was the same thing with Trevor Reed. Russia will let her go when they feel like they've been rewarded adequately for releasing her, and it will be on their timing. And, of course, that doesn't exactly deter them from the same behavior in the future. 

[UTGrad98 2271]

Russia wants Viktor Bout. Not sure how I feel about that. And does she get to skip the other wrongfully detained Americans in Russia? 

Edited May 29, 2022 by UTGrad98
Bout

[Braff Zacklin 13552]

14 minutes ago, UTGrad98 said:

Russia wants Viktor Bout. Not sure how I feel about that. And does she get to skip the other wrongfully detained Americans in Russia? 

Can we send them Nicolas Cage instead?

[NeverMarryAStripper 21872]

Russia will keep doing things like this as long as there are no consequences and they get something out of it.  We need to arrest one of Putin’s oligarch friends for child porn and do a swap.  If there are any still here.  I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to find a LEO willing to plant the evidence.

[Blotto 23487]

I have sympathy for any american stuck in a russian prison, but flying into foreign countries with drugs keeps my sympathy at the bare minimum. If it was planted, then she is getting fucked. If she did bring it in, she is a fucking moron, especially as a high profile american. 

[SL Xpress 7513]

35 minutes ago, Blotto said:

I have sympathy for any american stuck in a russian prison, but flying into foreign countries with drugs keeps my sympathy at the bare minimum. If it was planted, then she is getting fucked. If she did bring it in, she is a fucking moron, especially as a high profile american. 

It’s unclear whether she was flying into or out of Russia, since she’s lived there during the off-season since 2016, but she very well could have been getting out after warnings from the Biden administration in February, along with other American athletes. The mass exodus going on would have been another reason for Russian officials to target her. 

When you say she was traveling with drugs, that covers a lot of gamuts that don’t apply in this case. She was traveling with vape cartridges - many of which are easily purchased over the counter in the US. It’s not clear what their THC level was, but it could easily have been less than 1%, or it could have been as much as 90% (which are not purchasable OTC). 

There was risky behavior here for sure, but you’re over dramatizing the risks she took. She has lived in Russia since 2016, She was getting paid over $1m per year by a local women’s basketball team that provided her a personal driver, and catered to her in a myriad of ways, likely insulating her from the realities of Russian life. She was traveling with vape cartridges, not pounds of marijuana or bags of heroin French Connection/Midnight Express style. 

This is a political move by Russian officials, not an attempt to enforce local drug laws. 

I don’t think it was wise for any American athlete to be playing in Russia, but there have been a slew of them over the years, including our current volunteer assistant for volleyball. 

Given Russian surveillance of Americans, especially prominent Americans, there’s a good likelihood they knew exactly what was in her luggage, they knew she traveled with it on a regular basis, and they simply waited until the timing was right for them to detain her. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

didn't J'Covan play in Russia for a while? he was definitely playing in one or more of the former soviet states for a spell. 

[Blotto 23487]

I'm a fan of weed/edibles, and the "war on drugs", especially weed, is some stupid ass bullshit. But I never fly around the US with any of it, and I sure as fuck wouldnt bring it into a foreign country. If I pick some up in Ca, Wa etc... whatever i dont use while in that state I'll  give away prior to leaving. 

I believe vape cartridges as well as edibles are still technically a felony in Texas if they contain THC. Do I think they're looking for it? Nope. But as long as there is any  ambiguity related to weed, I'm not flying in/out of Texas with it. You also keep mentioning what is legal in the US as if that is relevant to other countries. Of course its a political stunt, and I hope she gets home soon, but I still maintain she is dumb as fuck for bringing that into/out of a country where weed (recreational or medicinal) is illegal.

[HtownHorn 14663]

4 minutes ago, Blotto said:

I'm a fan of weed/edibles, and the "war on drugs", especially weed, is some stupid ass bullshit. But I never fly around the US with any of it, and I sure as fuck wouldnt bring it into a foreign country. If I pick some up in Ca, Wa etc... whatever i dont use while in that state I'll  give away prior to leaving. 

I believe vape cartridges as well as edibles are still technically a felony in Texas if they contain THC. Do I think they're looking for it? Nope. But as long as there is any  ambiguity related to weed, I'm not flying in/out of Texas with it. You also keep mentioning what is legal in the US as if that is relevant to other countries. Of course its a political stunt, and I hope she gets home soon, but I still maintain she is dumb as fuck for bringing that into/out of a country where weed (recreational or medicinal) is illegal.

and if she has been living there since 2016, then she was well aware of it. She fucked up, is being made an example, but at the same time expects special treatment.

[SL Xpress 7513]

9 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

and if she has been living there since 2016, then she was well aware of it. She fucked up, is being made an example, but at the same time expects special treatment.

When you’re given special treatment for 6 years, is it a massive character flaw to expect special treatment?

The circumstances of her living in Russia changed dramatically practically overnight in ways most of the global population couldn’t have anticipated. I’ve always known, but I read a lot more history and keep up with current events in ways that aren’t normal. 

She’s being charged for “large scale transportation of drugs” for a sentence that could be up to 10 years in a Russian prison for…vape cartridges. This is a political gesture on Russia’s part, plain and simple. They could have just as easily planted the evidence for the same result if they’d wanted. They didn’t have to, which made her low hanging fruit. 

The truth is she’s going to be given special treatment. Either the US will figure out a swap for her, or Russia will make her a scapegoat to show the world and their domestic population they don’t bow to anyone. It’s also another way to send a message to the oligarchs, “you have no power here. The only power and wealth you have is what we allow you to have.”

[Brothahorn 10087]

Then Russia wants a high profile American athlete

[Pancho 44694]

Russia extended her detainment another 18 days.

This is fucking ridiculous. 

[jimmyjazz 45881]

I'm not a big world traveler, but when I've gone overseas it feels like I've always been made aware of guidance from the State Department regarding local laws.

The punishment may not fit our concept of the crime, but holy shit, what a risky move on her part, regardless of whether or notshe's been doing it for 6 years.  The idea of a swap of a high-profile Russian we know committed a low-level crime is fine with me, but at some point, we have to limit the support to "we'll pay for a really good Russian lawyer".

['stache 21794]

Yeah, I don't know the point of a petition. The administration is doing what it can diplomatically. It'll probably be a prisoner exchange, but the last one took years to finalize. I think her wife admitted that she had done this before, accidentally left her mj vape pen in her luggage. I personally don't care, she should be returned home, but what a horrible circumstance. I'm also not sure what it means to say that the "time has passed" for a low key approach. As long as she's there and Russia is in conflict with the west, anything that raises her profile gives them more leverage to keep her and increase their demands. 

[UDontKnow 10439]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not a big world traveler, but when I've gone overseas it feels like I've always been made aware of guidance from the State Department regarding local laws.

The punishment may not fit our concept of the crime, but holy shit, what a risky move on her part, regardless of whether or notshe's been doing it for 6 years.  The idea of a swap of a high-profile Russian we know committed a low-level crime is fine with me, but at some point, we have to limit the support to "we'll pay for a really good Russian lawyer".

If Russia is still asking for Viktor Bout in exchange for Brittney Griner, that's a terrible trade for the United States. If true, there is a good reason Russia wants their merchant of war back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Bout

Also, I would have never guessed that John Ashcroft is Bout's attorney.

[jimmyjazz 45881]

37 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

If Russia is still asking for Viktor Bout in exchange for Brittney Griner, that's a terrible trade for the United States. If true, there is a good reason Russia wants their merchant of war back.

Understood, I wasn't referring to him specifically.

 

Quote

Also, I would have never guessed that John Ashcroft is Bout's attorney.

Given the current Rep/NRA involvement with Russian money, it doesn't surprise me a bit.  (Maybe you were being sarcastic.)  My senior year of college (in MO) I shared an apartment with a guy I had grown up with, always knew I didn't really align with his family's hard conservative politics, but a great guy and good friend nonetheless.  Until that year, I didn't realize how tight they were with Ashcroft.  I went along on a couple of dinners and holy shit Ashcroft came across as slimy, even on first meet.

[markstanco 12571]

19 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not a big world traveler, but when I've gone overseas it feels like I've always been made aware of guidance from the State Department regarding local laws.

 

All of this. Even 20 years ago when I used to frequent the Ford plant in Nuevo Laredo I would be CERTAIN that I didnt have a single shotgun shell or whatever they considered illegal in my possession/vehicle.  I would even go through my computer bag.  Ive been to China many times as well and I am the same way there.  I do not and will not even consider breaking laws in another country, and that includes speeding. 

[elguapo 4586]

2 hours ago, markstanco said:

All of this. Even 20 years ago when I used to frequent the Ford plant in Nuevo Laredo I would be CERTAIN that I didnt have a single shotgun shell or whatever they considered illegal in my possession/vehicle.  I would even go through my computer bag.  Ive been to China many times as well and I am the same way there.  I do not and will not even consider breaking laws in another country, and that includes speeding. 

[shakahorn 1645]

On 5/29/2022 at 1:40 PM, shadow_operative said:

didn't J'Covan play in Russia for a while? he was definitely playing in one or more of the former soviet states for a spell. 

Are you suggesting that if J'Covan could get by in Russia without getting busted for weed, then anyone should be able to?

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 hour ago, shakahorn said:

Are you suggesting that if J'Covan could get by in Russia without getting busted for weed, then anyone should be able to?

lol pretty much. 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

[Harrison Stafford 3335]

She’s not going anywhere until this special operation has played out.

[SL Xpress 7513]

20 minutes ago, Harrison Stafford said:

She’s not going anywhere until this special operation has played out.

That’s not necessarily true. Trevor Reed was released on April 28, more than a month after the invasion had taken place. 

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned on this thread and should be, is that Paul Whelan’s status complicates things as well. Doing a swap for Griney that leaves Whelan overlooked a second time is going to require some explaining. My guess is that any deal negotiated for Griney is likely going to need to include Whelan. 

In any case, this is political, not about a country enforcing its laws. If you think you would have been completely safe traveling in and out of Russia at this time as an American because you didn’t pack anything controversial in your luggage you’re kidding yourself. Griner simply made herself low hanging fruit. 

[Js1 85270]

I mean, like we needed further confirmation this is just a high profile political thing.  But there ya go. 0.7 grams is not worth this. Fuck Russia 

[Rimbo 25911]

3 hours ago, Js1 said:

I mean, like we needed further confirmation this is just a high profile political thing.  But there ya go. 0.7 grams is not worth this. Fuck Russia 

Honestly, I'm not even sure I believe that much.

This is Russia, after all.

[cafe society 2860]

For all we know high profile athletes competing/living in Russia part-time are allowed to purchase weed in Russia.  We don't actually know she did anything she's accused of,  they may have just changed the rules in the middle of the game in order to entrap her.  All of you accusing her of being stupid are being reactionary.  
I would give Putin and Russia a taste of their own medicine; as SLX stated, Whelan needs to be a part of this.  Trade the arms dealer for him and Griner.  Put the arms dealer under and inject him with a slow acting poison that won't take effect until after the exchange (if such toxins exist).  Maybe something highly radioactive.  Ha, perhaps I'm being reactionary too.

[0xdeadbeef 1645]

While I've never been a fan of Griner, I feel bad for her that, through no fault of her own, she became a pawn in a political game.   I'm pretty sure Russia just sees her as potential leverage.   

[Carl Spackler 3479]

No question this is purely political bullshit.  Russia is trying to leverage the release of Viktor Bout, who was convicted of financing terrorism, in exchange for someone who was carrying a miniscule amount of THC for personal use.  Fuck Putin and his dickbag government.  I hope the U.S. government stands tall and resists the shakedown.  

My sympathy for Griner would be tempered somewhat if she was actually carrying the THC -- and if you believe the testimony from her trial, she apparently was.  I don't care who you are or whether you've been living there for a while, anyone trying to travel with even minor amounts of drugs should know better.  She was simply asking for trouble by carrying even a personal use quantity of THC when she was trying to travel either out of or into Russia.  Just fucking wait until you get where you're going and then go buy some fucking weed if you need to.     

[SL Xpress 7513]

29 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

No question this is purely political bullshit.  Russia is trying to leverage the release of Viktor Bout, who was convicted of financing terrorism, in exchange for someone who was carrying a miniscule amount of THC for personal use.  Fuck Putin and his dickbag government.  I hope the U.S. government stands tall and resists the shakedown.  

My sympathy for Griner would be tempered somewhat if she was actually carrying the THC -- and if you believe the testimony from her trial, she apparently was.  I don't care who you are or whether you've been living there for a while, anyone trying to travel with even minor amounts of drugs should know better.  She was simply asking for trouble by carrying even a personal use quantity of THC when she was trying to travel either out of or into Russia.  Just fucking wait until you get where you're going and then go buy some fucking weed if you need to.     

 

I get it. But I'd still argue the issue wasn't carrying a minuscule amount of THC in the form of a vape capsule, but working and living in Russia for $1m per year in the first place. And it's not hard to wrap my head around the reasoning. She's getting paid a boat load of money. Several times what she'd ever make in the WNBA. She's treated like royalty, with a personal car, dacha, and paid for assistant. She's insulated from all the Russian bullshit through her personal association with Iskander Makhmudov.

And then suddenly the secret service is empowered to put the oligarchs in their place, by showing who has real power Bane style, "Do you feel in charge, comrade Makhmudov?" Russia has a need for American hostages - innocence or guilt isn't as important as the passport - to use as political leverage. 

And you're sitting here acting sanctimonious because you'd never carry THC vape capsules to a foreign country. I get it. You'd probably never wear short skirts leaving a club drunk off your ass at 2am, either, but it doesn't justify someone else getting raped. She's getting a raw deal here, period. Going into blame the victim mode because you'd never make the same error is a gross simplification of the specific circumstances here. You're never going to be an international women's basketball star, either. 

[Carl Spackler 3479]

10 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

 

I get it. But I'd still argue the issue wasn't carrying a minuscule amount of THC in the form of a vape capsule, but working and living in Russia for $1m per year in the first place. And it's not hard to wrap my head around the reasoning. She's getting paid a boat load of money. Several times what she'd ever make in the WNBA. She's treated like royalty, with a personal car, dacha, and paid for assistant. She's insulated from all the Russian bullshit through her personal association with Iskander Makhmudov.

And then suddenly the secret service is empowered to put the oligarchs in their place, by showing who has real power Bane style, "Do you feel in charge, comrade Makhmudov?" Russia has a need for American hostages - innocence or guilt isn't as important as the passport - to use as political leverage. 

And you're sitting here acting sanctimonious because you'd never carry THC vape capsules to a foreign country. I get it. You'd probably never wear short skirts leaving a club drunk off your ass at 2am, either, but it doesn't justify someone else getting raped. She's getting a raw deal here, period. Going into blame the victim mode because you'd never make the same error is a gross simplification of the specific circumstances here. You're never going to be an international women's basketball star, either. 

Are you her agent or something?  Maybe a close family member?  You seem triggered by the fact that I merely said that my sympathy for her is tempered somewhat because she apparently did something to help put herself in her present position to an extent.  Even if she stupidly was carrying items that had a small amount of THC, I agree she's still getting a raw deal, so my sympathy level is maybe at 90-95% rather than 100%.  That's all.  If that upsets you, tough shit.  

  

[SL Xpress 7513]

6 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Are you her agent or something?  Maybe a close family member?  You seem triggered by the fact that I merely said that my sympathy for her is tempered somewhat because she apparently did something to help put herself in her present position to an extent.  Even if she stupidly was carrying items that had a small amount of THC, I agree she's still getting a raw deal, so my sympathy level is maybe at 90-95% rather than 100%.  That's all.  If that upsets you, tough shit.  

  

You’re mistaking me thinking that’s an idiotic view with something more personal towards you or Griner. 

[Pimphand 5732]

Dude fucked around and is finding out. Unable to give a damn...

[Red Five 40827]

15 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

You're never going to be an international women's basketball star, either. 

Not with that attitude he's not.

[ChickenSandwich 9825]

Playing for Russian Oligarchs was a poor choice, and of course Russia is treating her poorly. My question is if there are other Non famous Americans being held in Russia in the same Boat that wouldn’t appreciate her jumping the line in a prisoner swap 

[Pam Cummings 9639]

Lmao. As if yall wouldnt go play basketball in Russia for $1m if you were her.

[SL Xpress 7513]

47 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Playing for Russian Oligarchs was a poor choice, and of course Russia is treating her poorly. My question is if there are other Non famous Americans being held in Russia in the same Boat that wouldn’t appreciate her jumping the line in a prisoner swap 

 

Paul Whelan is the one I know about, who was jumped by Trevor Reed already.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/politics/paul-whelan-left-behind-statement/index.html

[Guest]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:52 AM, markstanco said:

All of this. Even 20 years ago when I used to frequent the Ford plant in Nuevo Laredo I would be CERTAIN that I didnt have a single shotgun shell or whatever they considered illegal in my possession/vehicle.  I would even go through my computer bag.  Ive been to China many times as well and I am the same way there.  I do not and will not even consider breaking laws in another country, and that includes speeding. 

I have very little sympathy for anyone who travels to China or Russia. What is the point, ever, in going to these places?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Lmao. As if yall wouldnt go play basketball in Russia for $1m if you were her.

I wouldn’t. But I don’t know the pay scale discrepancy in other countries. Surely there has to be another place in Europe she can play to supplement her WNBA play that isn’t…..Russia. Is she getting a raw deal?  Maybe and sounds like it. But I just don’t care. Playing in that weirdo wasteland that routinely does extra-lawful stuff on the reg is NOT worth $1mm. 

[markstanco 12571]

10 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

What is the point, ever, in going to these places?

Business, or at least for me.  I like to travel and see the factories.  You get SO MUCH more done in person than over the phone/email/zoom. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, markstanco said:

Business, or at least for me.  I like to travel and see the factories.  You get SO MUCH more done in person than over the phone/email/zoom. 

I’d find a new business. I wouldn’t ever willingly visit Russia or China in any capacity. No exceptions. 

[Js1 85270]

26 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I’d find a new business. I wouldn’t ever willingly visit Russia or China in any capacity. No exceptions. 

Are you O&G adjacent?  Because Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, among others.  

Russia, China and Turkey pay the highest for women's basketball players.  From $1.5 million in Russia to like $600,00 in China.   The highest WNBA salary is around $230k.  They can triple or quadruple their earnings to go play abroad. 

[jimmyjazz 45881]

34 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I’d find a new business. I wouldn’t ever willingly visit Russia or China in any capacity. No exceptions. 

LMAO.  So you basically would refuse to work for a company that manufactures . . . well, anything . . . because you wouldn't want to visit China.

I mean, if you can swing it where you don't have to make those trips, good on you.  I have.  But most of my peers have made that trip, some dozens if not hundreds of times.  

[TwiceHorn 31438]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

LMAO.  So you basically would refuse to work for a company that manufactures . . . well, anything . . . because you wouldn't want to visit China.

I mean, if you can swing it where you don't have to make those trips, good on you.  I have.  But most of my peers have made that trip, some dozens if not hundreds of times.  

It's an absolute beating.  I have an ulnar nerve displacement issue in my right arm from flying that shit coach.  Once.

I've been a few more times business and first class and it's better, but still sucks.

Edited July 5, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Trey3216 15343]

24 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Are you O&G adjacent?  Because Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, among others.  

Russia, China and Turkey pay the highest for women's basketball players.  From $1.5 million in Russia to like $600,00 in China.   The highest WNBA salary is around $230k.  They can triple or quadruple their earnings to go play abroad. 

I see what you did there...  

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Are you O&G adjacent?  Because Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, among others.  

Russia, China and Turkey pay the highest for women's basketball players.  From $1.5 million in Russia to like $600,00 in China.   The highest WNBA salary is around $230k.  They can triple or quadruple their earnings to go play abroad. 

Go play abroad then. Don’t do it in Russia. Not sure what your first paragraph means. 

35 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

LMAO.  So you basically would refuse to work for a company that manufactures . . . well, anything . . . because you wouldn't want to visit China.

I mean, if you can swing it where you don't have to make those trips, good on you.  I have.  But most of my peers have made that trip, some dozens if not hundreds of times.  

Yes I would. Stupidity, your peers. I have some too, and they’ve actually shifted their mill work from China to South Korea. And I wouldn’t go work for the non-descript, generic manufacturing company for all the tea in…well, you get the idea. I don’t need to, and I know of none of my close friends that ever travel to China for business. Only one still regularly travels abroad and it’s all Euro. We’re all middle aged and have growing families and have climbed where we want to climb. There is ZERO reason to ever visit China or Russia. 

[Zeus 6012]

1 hour ago, Porterhouse said:

I’d find a new business. I wouldn’t ever willingly visit Russia or China in any capacity. No exceptions. 

yup

Imagine going on vacation then being eaten by an escalator or getting AIDS and your liver taken by a guy in a tracksuit.

Brazil is the other one lol

All I can think about is liveleak videos when I think of Brazil