EPL 2022-23: Worldo Cuptus Interuptus

[Dutch 4464]

Danke, Spurs. 

[Bartles 769]

Here we go again with the City financial witch hunt. It really feels like the Directors' Cup where Stanford kept winning no matter how they tweaked the rules, until they finally shook things up enough that the Texas types can win it (yay!). But Stanford still competes for it, just under more equitable rules.

Admittedly I don't understand FFP despite reading quite a bit about it last time. I just don't get how the same evidence keeps getting brought out for years while City (and others) continue to sign players as usual. If there was an obvious infraction, step in and nullify the deal(s). Meanwhile more than half the league exists just to hopefully pull a home upset once in a while. It's bizarre to watch from an American standpoint.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

I'm sure City will have to forfeit any wins in the Asia Cup as a result. 

[alincoln 2364]

City will be relegated, their titles removed and their players allowed to leave on free transfers.  Pep is also now effectively a free agent.  

Liverpool +3 titles

United +3 titles

 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

9 minutes ago, alincoln said:

City will be relegated, their titles removed and their players allowed to leave on free transfers.  Pep is also now effectively a free agent.  

Liverpool +3 titles

United +3 titles

 

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[Schulz2.0 28752]

44 minutes ago, Bartles said:

Here we go again with the City financial witch hunt. It really feels like the Directors' Cup where Stanford kept winning no matter how they tweaked the rules, until they finally shook things up enough that the Texas types can win it (yay!). But Stanford still competes for it, just under more equitable rules.

Admittedly I don't understand FFP despite reading quite a bit about it last time. I just don't get how the same evidence keeps getting brought out for years while City (and others) continue to sign players as usual. If there was an obvious infraction, step in and nullify the deal(s). Meanwhile more than half the league exists just to hopefully pull a home upset once in a while. It's bizarre to watch from an American standpoint.

City cheated their ass off. They got off on the UEFA charges due to statute of limitations. That doesn't apply for the Premier League. Hopefully they get fucked hard.

[Firemans4Horn 17792]

The league knew Mancini was being paid in oil wells 10 years ago. Same with the £20mn a year “Doha Doughnuts” sponsorships. 
 

fuck off for waiting this long to act. 

[Schulz2.0 28752]

They're fucked.

[Firemans4Horn 17792]

#neverforget #grinding #bootstraps #hardwork

 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

Redo the timeline. KDB goes to Liverpool. We win 6 titles. Pep leaves Bayern and goes to Norwich. Norwich makes 4 Champions League finals but loses them all.

[midtown 3341]

Hope Haaland enjoys playing in the championship next year.

[alincoln 2364]

All of the players have relegation release provisions in their contracts.  City will be required to accept the highest bid that they receive for Haaland and everyone else. 

 

[Ted Lange 15991]

So Haaland to Chelsea….

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

What you hope happens:

From Sky Sports

Manchester City has been relegated for the 2023/24 season and Titles from 2016 thru 2023 have been vacated.

 

What will actually happen:

From Sky Sports

Manchester City have been sent a strongly worded email warning them never to do bad things again.

[midtown 3341]

Newcastle and Chelsea

[hayden_horn 11360]

3 hours ago, midtown said:

Newcastle and Chelsea

you know, as bad as i wanted that fat cunt ashley out, this situation with the saudis blows. 

as such, i'm sort of without a club. i'm kinda rooting fro brentford because that's a colleague's home club.

but i don't really know where to turn. reflexively still watched the nufc match, and should feel pretty good about the place in the table and the cup final but it's all kind of meh.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

13 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

as such, i'm sort of without a club. i'm kinda rooting fro brentford because that's a colleague's home club.

but i don't really know where to turn.

Become a Liverpool fan. I can guarantee that we'll never be accused of overspending. 

[mdmost 42775]

22 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Become a Liverpool fan. I can guarantee that we'll never be accused of overspending. 

[Captain Ron 12788]

5 hours ago, Bartles said:

Here we go again with the City financial witch hunt. It really feels like the Directors' Cup where Stanford kept winning no matter how they tweaked the rules, until they finally shook things up enough that the Texas types can win it (yay!). But Stanford still competes for it, just under more equitable rules.

Admittedly I don't understand FFP despite reading quite a bit about it last time. I just don't get how the same evidence keeps getting brought out for years while City (and others) continue to sign players as usual. If there was an obvious infraction, step in and nullify the deal(s). Meanwhile more than half the league exists just to hopefully pull a home upset once in a while. It's bizarre to watch from an American standpoint.

Tell me you don't understand what a witch hunt is without telling me you don't understand what a witch hunt is.

[Pig Bellmont 8679]

4 hours ago, midtown said:

Newcastle and Chelsea

Despite spending 92 million Euro last January, Newcastle hasn’t gone crazy. They still have a number of players who have been around for years that Howe has recently developed into productive seasons (Joelinton, Almiron). They haven’t bought their way into 4th and I think the front office has been very in tune with FFP. 

[alincoln 2364]

The EPL clearly told the Saudis that another Man City would not be permitted and that City would soon be punished for its FFP violations.  The Newcastle build has been deliberate, patient and intelligent and they are way ahead of schedule as a result of the fortuitous decline of Liverpool, Chelsea's awful season, the Glazer ownership of United and the impending relegation of City.    

Chelsea is pushing much of the expense of its spending spree into future years which the EPL and UEFA will soon curtail as well.  Chelsea just identified a loophole in the rules that will be closed soon but they won't be punished for a practice that was not illegal at the time they were doing it.  

[The Dog 43771]

So this would be like an NFL team paying player salaries off the books in order to get around the salary cap?

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

21 minutes ago, alincoln said:

fortuitous decline of Liverpool

[Firemans4Horn 17792]

17 minutes ago, The Dog said:

So this would be like an NFL team paying player salaries off the books in order to get around the salary cap?

 

Yes. 

Der Spigel did a big expose about the corruption in 2018:

 

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

[midtown 3341]

Bunch of fucking hypocrites actually.  NBC, Men in blazers and everyone else has been sucking on Pep and Cities dick for the last 7 years when everyone knew they were cooking the books.  

 

[sidis 9713]

24 minutes ago, midtown said:

Bunch of fucking hypocrites actually.  NBC, Men in blazers and everyone else has been sucking on Pep and Cities dick for the last 7 years when everyone knew they were cooking the books.  

 

with the epidemic misuse of possessives when intending plural (particularly with names) in our modern society, i am always kind of take notice and think "hmm" to myself when someone misuses a plural in place of possessive.  makes the world a bit more interesting.

 

3 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

you know, as bad as i wanted that fat cunt ashley out, this situation with the saudis blows. 

as such, i'm sort of without a club. i'm kinda rooting fro brentford because that's a colleague's home club.

but i don't really know where to turn. reflexively still watched the nufc match, and should feel pretty good about the place in the table and the cup final but it's all kind of meh.

if you consider the beginning of time to be february 2023, the most notable occurrence in soccer is the scrappy, neglected underdogs in 20th place beating the uberwealthy 1st place pretty boys for three points.

[sidis 9713]

Here’s how the full table since the World Cup stacks up in full:

Note: All teams have played six games unless otherwise specified.

1. Manchester United – 16 points, GD +8 (Played 7)
2. Brentford – 14 points, GD +9
3. Brighton – 13 points, GD +7
4. Manchester City – 13 points, GD +6 (Played 7)
5. Arsenal – 13 points, GD +6
6. Fulham  – 13 points, GD +4 (Played 7)
7. Nottingham Forest – 11 points, GD +1
8. Newcastle United – 10 points, GD +4
9. Wolves – 10 points, GD +1
10. Tottenham – 10 points, GD 0 (Played 7)
11. Aston Villa – 10 points, GD 0
12. Chelsea – 9 points, GD +1 (Played 7)
13. Liverpool – 7 points, GD -5
14. West Ham United – 5 points, GD -3
15. Crystal Palace – 5 points, GD -7 (Played 7)
16. Leicester City – 4 points, GD -5
17. Everton – 4 points, GD -6
18. Leeds United – 3 points, GD -4
19. Southampton – 3 points, GD -7
20. Bournemouth – 1 point, GD -10

[sidis 9713]

looking at that list, it just occurred to me that chelsea net spent $611 million in the two transfer windows this year and have 9 points in seven games since the world cup.

[midtown 3341]

56 minutes ago, sidis said:

with the epidemic misuse of possessives when intending plural (particularly with names) in our modern society, i am always kind of take notice and think "hmm" to myself when someone misuses a plural in place of possessive.  makes the world a bit more interesting.

Lighten up Francis.  It's an internet board.  If I submit my work for publishing Ill be sure to run it by my team of editors at Pendant

[Captain Ron 12788]

10 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:

City cheated their ass off. They got off on the UEFA charges due to statute of limitations. That doesn't apply for the Premier League. Hopefully they get fucked hard.

Actually to be fair UEFA hit them with a ban that was overturned on the statute of limitations technicality. They were already found guilty, just had the punishment thrown out. 

[Schulz2.0 28752]

3 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Actually to be fair UEFA hit them with a ban that was overturned on the statute of limitations technicality. They were already found guilty, just had the punishment thrown out. 

And this time they can't appeal.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

14 hours ago, midtown said:

Lighten up Francis.  It's an internet board.  If I submit my work for publishing Ill be sure to run it by my team of editors at Pendant

Make sure you don't overuse exclamation points.

[SimonBolivar 10897]

Pendant? Those bastards.

[yoladu 4065]

On 2/6/2023 at 12:32 PM, Cheeseweasel said:

Become a Liverpool fan. I can guarantee that we'll never be accused of overspending. 

[yoladu 4065]

On 2/6/2023 at 1:20 PM, Pig Bellmont said:

Despite spending 92 million Euro last January, Newcastle hasn’t gone crazy. They still have a number of players who have been around for years that Howe has recently developed into productive seasons (Joelinton, Almiron). They haven’t bought their way into 4th and I think the front office has been very in tune with FFP. 

 

Eddie Howe has done a good job, but i am kind of going to have to disagree with you. Are they not in the top 4 of spenders in the past 4 years? Kind of reflects their current table position (4th).

Net spend the last 4 years. https://www.transfermarkt.us/newcastle-united/alletransfers/verein/762

19/20 - €37.26m

20/21 - €39.00m

21/22 - €130.50m

22/23 - €183.05m

that is a 4 year net spend more than Liverpool or Tottenham. Hell, Brighton is the real story, a negative net spend the last 4 years and sitting in 6th place, 6 points behind Newcastle with a game in hand.

 

**Oh, and it's not like Joelinton €44.00m and Almiron €24.00m were cheap buys in 2019.

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by yoladu

[Pig Bellmont 8679]

17 hours ago, yoladu said:

 

Eddie Howe has done a good job, but i am kind of going to have to disagree with you. Are they not in the top 4 of spenders in the past 4 years? Kind of reflects their current table position (4th).

Net spend the last 4 years. https://www.transfermarkt.us/newcastle-united/alletransfers/verein/762

19/20 - €37.26m

20/21 - €39.00m

21/22 - €130.50m

22/23 - €183.05m

that is a 4 year net spend more than Liverpool or Tottenham. Hell, Brighton is the real story, a negative net spend the last 4 years and sitting in 6th place, 6 points behind Newcastle with a game in hand.

 

**Oh, and it's not like Joelinton €44.00m and Almiron €24.00m were cheap buys in 2019.

 

 

 

The new owners have been in charge for 2 January transfer windows and one summer, but you’re measuring the last 4 years? I mean ok, you’re entitled to your opinion but they simply aren’t spending like Chelsea or Man City

[yoladu 4065]

2 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

The new owners have been in charge for 2 January transfer windows and one summer, but you’re measuring the last 4 years? I mean ok, you’re entitled to your opinion but they simply aren’t spending like Chelsea or Man City

Nobody is spending like Chelsea!  😀

BUT even if you compare the business done solely by the new Newcastle owners (roughly 2 years) against the rest of the TRADITIONAL TOP 6, I would argue they have "bought their way" into that bracket which in turn reflects their current league position (4th place).

last 2 years net spend leaders (using transfermarkt as reference)

1 Chelsea : €537.06m

2 Man United : €341.33m

3 Newcastle : €313.55m

4 Arsenal: €304.56m

5 Tottenham : €200.68m

6 Liverpool : €104.05m

7 Man City:  €38.7m

 

I appreciate the discussion

 

**note: i only measured the last 4 years in my original post to include Joelinton and Almiron in the calculus as they are current contributing starters for Newcastle.

 

*** also, I dont mean to discredit the job Eddie Howe is doing and how he sets up his team. Southampton were the 2nd biggest spenders the winter transfer window and i have no confidence that Nate Jones is going to be able to manage that investment wisely to get us out of the bottom 3.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by yoladu

[ztejas 43244]

6 minutes ago, yoladu said:

TRADITIONAL TOP 6

What does this mean? Top 6 has been dynamic for basically the entire history of English football. Do you mean like the past decade top 6 of ManU, City, Chelsea, Pool, Arsenal, Spurs? 

Just curious how you're defining that - "traditional" is a weird qualifier. 

[mdmost 42775]

Oh boy

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/08/emir-of-qatar-interested-in-buying-manchester-united-for-45bn

[ztejas 43244]

ManU is worth more than that. 

[alincoln 2364]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

What does this mean? Top 6 has been dynamic for basically the entire history of English football. Do you mean like the past decade top 6 of ManU, City, Chelsea, Pool, Arsenal, Spurs? 

Just curious how you're defining that - "traditional" is a weird qualifier. 

Pretty much.  Chelsea and City had 1 and 2 titles, respectively, before oil.  Everton had the second most titles until 1989.  

[Napoleon 8595]

Weston could stand to lose 5 to 10 pounds. 

The cold wet weather of England makes it easier to ruminate for 90 minutes, but he’s not in Premier League shape at the moment. 

[Pig Bellmont 8679]

6 hours ago, yoladu said:

Nobody is spending like Chelsea!  😀

BUT even if you compare the business done solely by the new Newcastle owners (roughly 2 years) against the rest of the TRADITIONAL TOP 6, I would argue they have "bought their way" into that bracket which in turn reflects their current league position (4th place).

last 2 years net spend leaders (using transfermarkt as reference)

1 Chelsea : €537.06m

2 Man United : €341.33m

3 Newcastle : €313.55m

4 Arsenal: €304.56m

5 Tottenham : €200.68m

6 Liverpool : €104.05m

7 Man City:  €38.7m

 

I appreciate the discussion

 

**note: i only measured the last 4 years in my original post to include Joelinton and Almiron in the calculus as they are current contributing starters for Newcastle.

 

*** also, I dont mean to discredit the job Eddie Howe is doing and how he sets up his team. Southampton were the 2nd biggest spenders the winter transfer window and i have no confidence that Nate Jones is going to be able to manage that investment wisely to get us out of the bottom 3.

 

 

 

 

 

For the record I was originally taking issue with Newcastle being lumped in with Chelsea as a potential FFP violator in light of the Man City talks. This took somewhat of a turn bc we’re now talking about whether NUFC bought their way to 4th. Related but different topics, especially when considering Ashley was never known for investing in on field talent, and recent spending brought in regular contributors like Dan Burn and Chris Wood, as opposed to guys like Haaland or Mudryk. The comparison seems there with raw spending but it certainly seems because there was more talent needed at Newcastle rather than spending on splashy super stars. It just doesn’t feel apples to apples. 
 

The Athletic happens to take on the topic and compares the first 3 windows for respective club ownership comparing Newcastle with Chelsea and Man City. 
 

https://theathletic.com/4153315/2023/02/08/newcastle-takeover-spending-chelsea-manchester-city/?source=user_shared_article
 

You’re right about total spend numbers, especially recently. I’d argue however that unlike City that there’s no shady accounting and NUFC have been within the FFP bounds. And Chelsea’s spending is crazy. 

[MoJames 8240]

[MoJames 8240]

[Pig Bellmont 8679]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/case-against-manchester-city-for-financial-breaches-could-take-four-years-tfpb7wnhf
 

4 years? For what’s essentially an arbitration? Jesus

[mdmost 42775]

Edited February 9, 2023 by mdmost

[Captain Ron 12788]

2 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/case-against-manchester-city-for-financial-breaches-could-take-four-years-tfpb7wnhf
 

4 years? For what’s essentially an arbitration? Jesus

The lawyers gotta get their $$$

 

[Captain Ron 12788]

9 hours ago, mdmost said:

Oh boy

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/08/emir-of-qatar-interested-in-buying-manchester-united-for-45bn

 

I wonder how the Man City investigation changes this calculus? I can't think all that much really as these guys just want to sports wash, they don't care about how much they spend, only that they can make their names "better."

 

 

[yoladu 4065]

14 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/case-against-manchester-city-for-financial-breaches-could-take-four-years-tfpb7wnhf
 

4 years? For what’s essentially an arbitration? Jesus

ah, man, Southampton fans was relying on Man City taking a relegation spot this year to help us stay up.