The Boat Fanatic Thread

[Landomatic 3813]

11 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Those both seem like an awful lot of boat for someone whose boating experience consists of getting a ski boat back to the dock once in college when the owner’s kid passed out after an afternoon of drinking on LBJ.  I was thinking 25-27’ would probably be my sweet spot size wise.  Big enough to have some stability if things get a little ugly, but not so big that my amateur ass ruins the thing trying to dock it.  I would obviously have some sort of training class as well.  Thanks @G650, I will definitely take you up on that when the time comes.  Like a lot of things in life these days, COVID has disrupted the timeline a bit.

Most first-time boat owners wish they’d gone bigger on the first one.

That said, not sure I’d look at anything that old.  That’s a cash boat.  After 20 years old, they get a lot harder to get financing on.  So, even if you plan to pay cash, that really limits your market when it comes time to resell.  I made one of my criteria that it could be no older than 15 years old.

Anyway, mostly comes down to budget and how you really think you plan to use it...which may change immensely from where you think you are right now (it did for me anyway).  Tons of variables from there.

[conVINCEd 21468]

10 minutes ago, G650 said:

Happy to help anyway I can.

 

I think you are on the right track. Maybe look at a 23' CC. Super versatile. I used to have a 23' Seacraft for years. 25-27 totally fine too, but not much difference in usability and a bit more money. You really need to go to a 32' CC to get something more substantial, but it becomes way more to deal with in a hurry.

I got caught 10 miles offshore in a 21’ when a storm popped up out of nowhere a few years ago.  It felt like we were recreating the last scene from The Perfect Storm.  I want something bigger than that.  That was scary AF.  25-27’ seemed like a good compromise between too small  to feel comfortable in and too big to handle given my inexperience.

Not sure what happened there.

Edited February 12, 2021 by conVINCEd

[Cajun 11675]

I've fished this 35 Cabo in, well, Cabo.  Great fishing boat and built for just that - fishing.

[G650 14107]

11 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I got caught 10 miles offshore in a 21’ when a storm popped up out of nowhere a few years ago.  It felt like we were recreating the last scene from The Perfect Storm.  I want something bigger than that.  That was scary AF.  25-27’ seemed like a good compromise between too small  to feel comfortable in and too big to handle given my inexperience.

Not sure what happened there.

 

Pretty massive difference between a 21 and a 23.

 

Most 25's are 23's with integrated motor brackets btw, so they can charge more. It's literally the same boat.

 

ETA: It's really more important to look at the particular models as well if you are worried about running in a seaway. The Seacraft variable dead rise is something that makes it very different than a mass market generic boat. I'd take one in a seaway toe for toe with a Jupiter 32. Look at Contenders, See Vee, Seacraft, and other bluewater boats. Stay away from trash like Key West, Robalo, etc...

Edited February 12, 2021 by G650

[troph 24563]

I wouldn’t go much smaller if you’re out on the ocean water.  And if you don’t have any experience I wouldn’t start in open water. Smaller boat in protected water sure. For a while I was stuck on the CC concept in the bays, great fishing, lots of fun, not a lot of stress.

Edited February 12, 2021 by troph

[conVINCEd 21468]

12 minutes ago, troph said:

I wouldn’t go much smaller if you’re out on the ocean water.  And if you don’t have any experience I wouldn’t start in open water. Smaller boat in protected water sure. For a while I was stuck on the CC concept in the bays, great fishing, lots of fun, not a lot of stress.

Obviously the plan would be to start there and learn.  Good info from everyone.  Thanks. @G650 would a 2010ish Boston Whaler Outrage 320 check most of the boxes for you and provide me more stability than a 25-27 footer?

[G650 14107]

12 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Obviously the plan would be to start there and learn.  Good info from everyone.  Thanks. @G650 would a 2010ish Boston Whaler Outrage 320 check most of the boxes for you and provide me more stability than a 25-27 footer?

Sure. Main thing is be upfront and honest with yourself on the increased ownership costs, and be prepared to put more time into learning to handle it. It will be more susceptible to crosswinds and current when docking than a smaller boat.

[Landomatic 3813]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

Sure. Main thing is be upfront and honest with yourself on the increased ownership costs, and be prepared to put more time into learning to handle it. It will be more susceptible to crosswinds and current when docking than a smaller boat.

And you can never have too many joysticks or thrusters.

[G650 14107]

14 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

And you can never have too many joysticks or thrusters.

True of many things

[troph 24563]

Make sure your wife is cool with a CC too if romantic sunsets are your thing. Fishing a CC with the guys and cracking a beer when the sun is going down sounds great, even a little nausea is fine if it hits you if the fishing and camaraderie is good. she might not want to be batted around in a boat with no shelter even if the sunset is gorgeous.  And that’s where entry level cruiser or fishing express could make sense.  Or go CC and assume that the wife isn’t going to be a huge fan even if she says she is.  Of course if she lives for the outdoors then she’s probably fine.  

Edited February 12, 2021 by troph

[Landomatic 3813]

12 minutes ago, G650 said:

True of many things

Joystick was one of the "non-negotiable must haves" this round for me.

[troph 24563]

2 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

Joystick was one of the "non-negotiable must haves" this round for me.

My goal is to end at 60-65 feet with 30-40 sail first, then 40-50 MY next then 60-65 MY. At least dual thrusters above 40.  Joystick after a certain year seems standard though which is nice. 

[Handcruser 2805]

Happy to help anyway I can.
 
I think you are on the right track. Maybe look at a 23' CC. Super versatile. I used to have a 23' Seacraft for years. 25-27 totally fine too, but not much difference in usability and a bit more money. You really need to go to a 32' CC to get something more substantial, but it becomes way more to deal with in a hurry.

I love fish nautiques. Always wanted one.

[Landomatic 3813]

24 minutes ago, troph said:

Make sure your wife is cool with a CC too if romantic sunsets are your thing. Fishing a CC with the guys and cracking a beer when the sun is going down sounds great, even a little nausea is fine if it hits you if the fishing and camaraderie is good. she might not want to be batted around in a boat with no shelter even if the sunset is gorgeous.  And that’s where entry level cruiser or fishing express could make sense.  Or go CC and assume that the wife isn’t going to be a huge fan even if she says she is.  Of course if she lives for the outdoors then she’s probably fine.  

Damn this is no shit.  Booked a small CC for a fishing charter several years ago in the Keys.  I tried to go cheap and I guess you get what you pay for.  Mrs Landomatic, who isn't afraid to get her hands dirty, was none too happy when told by the captain that if she needed to go to the bathroom, she'd have to use a bucket.  You can guess how that went over...while boarding with a charcuterie board and bottle of champagne in hand.

Long story short, we didn't make it very far offshore before having to turn back.  Even I will admit, it was fucking miserable.  We were drenched and freezing and there was nothing fun about it after a certain point.

Later on that same trip we were walking on the docks by a mega-yacht that you could see into and she said, "next time we go on a boat, it better have 3 things...leather couches, flatscreen TVs and fresh flowers like that one."  Almost named our boat Three Things just for that.  /csb

Edited February 12, 2021 by Landomatic

[troph 24563]

See, I’m pretty good to have around, I get both sides of it.  Thankfully my lady friend has no problem squatting off the back of the boat and I’ll usually refrain from drinking so I can hold it, but we are rare exceptions of the fairer side and even then if we are more than 4-5 hours out we have a head on board.  I’d not count on a CC being something a wife enjoys unless that’s already been confirmed with experience. Have a modest enclosure and a head or assume it’s your boys day out boat with very rare exceptions (i.e. calm seas only a few hours (based on bladder capacity). 

and lando - still undefeated over there in the land of the 6-4-3 boat you got!! She’ll be stoked! Awesome name btw!!

 

ps - I admit I think about where the vase with fresh flowers goes on any boat trader time waster I engage in too!  
 

Edited February 12, 2021 by troph

[Dbeasy 14969]

Is there a rough rule of thumb for how much you can negotiate off the msrp of a new boat? A Google search doesn’t reveal much information, like it does for cars. 

[utee94 15746]

3 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Is there a rough rule of thumb for how much you can negotiate off the msrp of a new boat? A Google search doesn’t reveal much information, like it does for cars. 

If you have to ask... 

 

 

 

[G650 14107]

11 minutes ago, utee94 said:

If you have to ask... 

 

 

 

Fuck around and find out even.

[G650 14107]

22 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

We were drenched and freezing and there was nothing fun about it after a certain point.

Shit sounds like a blast!

 

But it does raise an important point. People need to be honest with themselves about what they are looking for. To be comfortable or to be hardcore. Because I've seen untold masses tell overestimate what they are cool with.

[Landomatic 3813]

2 minutes ago, G650 said:

But it does raise an important point. People need to be honest with themselves about what they are looking for. To be comfortable or to be hardcore. Because I've seen untold masses tell overestimate what they are cool with.

Yep, and to take it one step further, if there is any possible way to test things out a bit in the actual situation you think you'll be using the boat in, take that opportunity even if you have to rent some things in the process.

Silver lining to my first boat screw job fucking fiasco...I got to use a boat for almost 2 months (essentially for free) and really figure out how I wanted to use it.  What I wanted and what I didn't want.  And what I thought I wanted and what I really wanted ended up being two very different things.

That scenario isn't realistic for most people, but I'd rent some things, charter some things, etc different times of the day/week/season before I really settled in on what I wanted.  Hell, depending on the location, even just spend some time around the docks soaking everything in if you can.  The culture can change just from marina to marina pretty substantially.  Even within our marina, the vibe from dock to dock is really different.

And then at the end of it, as you said, be honest with yourself.  Sometimes easier said than done, but a lot fucking easier to determine before you buy than after.

 

[Landomatic 3813]

47 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Is there a rough rule of thumb for how much you can negotiate off the msrp of a new boat? A Google search doesn’t reveal much information, like it does for cars. 

Short answer...do not, under any circumstance, buy a new boat.

Long answer...I'd say probably about 25% under MSRP from what I experienced.  Granted, I didn't research it much when I bought my first boat, which was new.  And that was at the peak of Covid when inventory was really low and every boat dealer in town was saying they had never sold so many boats in their life.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Landomatic
just looked at paperwork - it was right at 25% under msrp

[Landomatic 3813]

Damnit...y'all fuckers gonna let me get some work done today or what?

Eh, who am I kidding?  I'm just excited about my new boat.  This cold weather can suck it.

[troph 24563]

Yeah I’d say moving and chartering 3-4 boats that make a predetermined list is a great idea.  

[utee94 15746]

Just buy all four boats and see which ones you like best.

Sell the others.  Or not.

We're all surly1% here so what does it matter?

 

 

[Dbeasy 14969]

18 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

Short answer...do not, under any circumstance, buy a new boat.

Long answer...I'd say probably about 25% under MSRP from what I experienced.  Granted, I didn't research it much when I bought my first boat, which was new.  And that was at the peak of Covid when inventory was really low and every boat dealer in town was saying they had never sold so many boats in their life.

I’ve seen that said multiple times, but I like new and want to minimize maintenance issues in the beginning. So why not buy new?

[justhookit 4180]

Depends on the manufacturer but there are many boats where you are going to pay pretty much full MSRP.

11 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I’ve seen that said multiple times, but I like new and want to minimize maintenance issues in the beginning. So why not buy new?

New boats are likely to have more maintenance issues than a very lightly used boat. Also you’ll save money.

[troph 24563]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

Is there a rough rule of thumb for how much you can negotiate off the msrp of a new boat? A Google search doesn’t reveal much information, like it does for cars. 

Used I would have no problem asking 8-10% off asking for a properly priced boat but supply, demand, quality, add ons, motivations etc play into it.

new? I’ve only bought one new and they gave a marketing discount for the boat show lead (couple grand I think) but wouldn’t budge on the rest. I don’t know if we got had or not.  I’m sure we could have played one brand off another but at the time I really don’t think the competition was fierce, Malibu had a pretty good beat on the bargain brand wake surf boat with their Axis. Don’t know about now. Ended up happy with it though, fully loaded wake surf boat in the $90s.  Covid has kept resale high and we haven’t had any repair issues really. 
 

there’s no way I’m buying a boat with accommodations new though, too much depreciation and like hook it said you end up with a lot of punch list items on new ones as even production builders are not as smooth with their processes as car manufacturers, then there’s the money an owner spends making it theirs, new electronics, stabilizers, water systems, furnishing it.  How the engine room is laid out will also tell you a lot. 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by troph

[Dbeasy 14969]

Okay got it. Thanks. So if I buy used, I’m going to need a dealer to hold my hand because I’m a boat idiot. So I guess that means buy used from a local dealer. The challenge is finding the boat I want locally. 

[Handcruser 2805]

Okay got it. Thanks. So if I buy used, I’m going to need a dealer to hold my hand because I’m a boat idiot. So I guess that means buy used from a local dealer. The challenge is finding the boat I want locally. 

What do you want

[CHIEF 5072]

I've been told that on an offshore boat that 27' is the minimum length you should go because of ride comfort. Apparently a 27' will not drop into the trough between waves, but shorter boats will. Anyone of you with experience ever hear that, or have a thought on it?  I don't know if that is based off of the normal 2-3 foot seas that seem to be what most people going offshore would experience most of the time.

CHIEF

[G650 14107]

9 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

I've been told that on an offshore boat that 27' is the minimum length you should go because of ride comfort. Apparently a 27' will not drop into the trough between waves, but shorter boats will. Anyone of you with experience ever hear that, or have a thought on it?  I don't know if that is based off of the normal 2-3 foot seas that seem to be what most people going offshore would experience most of the time.

CHIEF

No that's one of those old wives tales. All boats get airborne at a given speed and wave height. The depth of the vee and deadrise angle are what determines ride.

 

2-3 foot is essentially flat fwiw. 6' and up is generally where you get into serious offshore work. Much more than that and you want to either be in a sailboat or on a ship.

 

I have sailed in 20 foot seas several times and it's not much fun. I actually saw some 50 footers in the North Atlantic and was super grateful to be on a 200,000 ton ship.

[justhookit 4180]

Offshore Texas in our typical 3 foot (or more) slop I don’t find much difference until you get up to at least a 33 or 35 foot center console. But give me a 40 foot or more sportfisher or flybridge.

[justhookit 4180]

3 minutes ago, G650 said:

No that's one of those old wives tales. All boats get airborne at a given speed and wave height. The depth of the vee and deadrise angle are what determines ride.

 

2-3 foot is essentially flat fwiw. 6' and up is generally where you get into serious offshore work. Much more than that and you want to either be in a sailboat or on a ship.

 

I have sailed in 20 foot seas several times and it's not much fun. I actually saw some 50 footers in the North Atlantic and was super grateful to be on a 200,000 ton ship.

Yeah in Texas we just didn’t go out if seas were bigger than 5 feet unless it’s a tournament. It’s miserable.

[Sbbruin 21737]

15 hours ago, Cajun said:

@Chief - Stay tuned.  I've got plans with the boat/underwater LEDs/drone, and all this shit.

Once it warms back up, that is.  If I'm not arrested, should be interesting.  Hell, might be even if I am arrested.  I'll just tell the judge, "Cause I like to party!" --

 

Holy shit if I had that setup in HS or college, I may have killed myself smoking weed until I suffocated.

[Dbeasy 14969]

26 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

What do you want

Still looking at 19 or 21 ft Chaparral SSI

[Handcruser 2805]

Still looking at 19 or 21 ft Chaparral SSI

Why that boat

[Landomatic 3813]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

I’ve seen that said multiple times, but I like new and want to minimize maintenance issues in the beginning. So why not buy new?

If you think the "drive it off the lot depreciation" is bad on a car, wait until you see it on a boat.  Here are some real numbers from my first experience, which I just happen to have handy since it was such a clusterfuck and I ended up having to document everything...

New boat I bought had a MSRP right at $200K.  Got it for right at $150K.  One month later, after putting almost no hours on it, due to all the issues I was having (more on that later), I just wanted to sell the fucking thing.  The dealer who sold it to me said he could give me a trade-in value of $85K max and if I were to sell it myself, I could get $100K max.  And he showed me all the market value paperwork and comps to back it up, so I believe him.

I like new too and thought the same way as you on the maintenance as a newb boat owner.  With mine (I realize it's probably a pretty extreme outlier) something fairly major literally broke on it every single fucking time we took it out.  Sure it was all under warranty, but what a fucking beating.  As others have mentioned, and from everything I learned, you'll have fewer problems with one that's broke in a little bit.  If warranty is a big deal to you, get a used one that's still under warranty.

Luckily, that dealer ended up having to take it back for a full refund (long ass story) because they completely misrepresented it, so I ended up okay, but I would have been sick if I'd have had to take a $50K bath after just one month of use.  And even though my situation was surely unique, the numbers don't change.  So, yeah that first depreciation is a motherfucker.

[Anastasis 23394]

3 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

that dealer ended up having to take it back for a full refund (long ass story)

Doesn't look like most of us will be going anywhere for the next few days....

[Handcruser 2805]

If you think the "drive it off the lot depreciation" is bad on a car, wait until you see it on a boat.  Here are some real numbers from my first experience, which I just happen to have handy since it was such a clusterfuck and I ended up having to document everything...
New boat I bought had a MSRP right at $200K.  Got it for right at $150K.  One month later, after putting almost no hours on it, due to all the issues I was having (more on that later), I just wanted to sell the fucking thing.  The dealer who sold it to me said he could give me a trade-in value of $85K max and if I were to sell it myself, I could get $100K max.  And he showed me all the market value paperwork and comps to back it up, so I believe him.
I like new too and thought the same way as you on the maintenance as a newb boat owner.  With mine (I realize it's probably a pretty extreme outlier) something fairly major literally broke on it every single fucking time we took it out.  Sure it was all under warranty, but what a fucking beating.  As others have mentioned, and from everything I learned, you'll have fewer problems with one that's broke in a little bit.  If warranty is a big deal to you, get a used one that's still under warranty.
Luckily, that dealer ended up having to take it back for a full refund (long ass story) because they completely misrepresented it, so I ended up okay, but I would have been sick if I'd have had to take a $50K bath after just one month of use.  And even though my situation was surely unique, the numbers don't change.  So, yeah that first depreciation is a motherfucker.

Boats sink. Weird how easy it happens.

“Yes, I need to file a claim.”

Thank me later!

[G650 14107]

19 minutes ago, justhookit said:

Yeah in Texas we just didn’t go out if seas were bigger than 5 feet unless it’s a tournament. It’s miserable.

Wise

[Dbeasy 14969]

11 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

If you think the "drive it off the lot depreciation" is bad on a car, wait until you see it on a boat.  Here are some real numbers from my first experience, which I just happen to have handy since it was such a clusterfuck and I ended up having to document everything...

New boat I bought had a MSRP right at $200K.  Got it for right at $150K.  One month later, after putting almost no hours on it, due to all the issues I was having (more on that later), I just wanted to sell the fucking thing.  The dealer who sold it to me said he could give me a trade-in value of $85K max and if I were to sell it myself, I could get $100K max.  And he showed me all the market value paperwork and comps to back it up, so I believe him.

I like new too and thought the same way as you on the maintenance as a newb boat owner.  With mine (I realize it's probably a pretty extreme outlier) something fairly major literally broke on it every single fucking time we took it out.  Sure it was all under warranty, but what a fucking beating.  As others have mentioned, and from everything I learned, you'll have fewer problems with one that's broke in a little bit.  If warranty is a big deal to you, get a used one that's still under warranty.

Luckily, that dealer ended up having to take it back for a full refund (long ass story) because they completely misrepresented it, so I ended up okay, but I would have been sick if I'd have had to take a $50K bath after just one month of use.  And even though my situation was surely unique, the numbers don't change.  So, yeah that first depreciation is a motherfucker.

holy shit this scared the hell out of me. Used it is.

[Cajun 11675]

16 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Holy shit if I had that setup in HS or college, I may have killed myself smoking weed until I suffocated.

Evenings or early mornings with little to no wind and that stuff out on the lake is different dimension shit.  It was tough out on Lake Austin b/c it's best w/the music turned to 11, but I didn't want to have airstrikes called in on me by the those trying to sleep at 2am.  

Now, out at Canyon there's much greater potential in my estimation.  I just need those perfect conditions and I know just the little cove where I'm going to do it up right.

Stay tuned and stay frosty w/your bongs boys!

[Cajun 11675]

23 minutes ago, justhookit said:

Yeah in Texas we just didn’t go out if seas were bigger than 5 feet unless it’s a tournament. It’s miserable.

Wanna know how I know you're not Pablo Snow?

Goddamned Port A version of Quint.

[G650 14107]

7 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

holy shit this scared the hell out of me. Used it is.

Yall don't even want to know what the depreciation on custom one off race boats is

[CHIEF 5072]

30 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Doesn't look like most of us will be going anywhere for the next few days....

CHIEF

[HOOKEM4 5023]

49 minutes ago, G650 said:

Yall don't even want to know what the depreciation on custom one off race boats is

I am certain it was a scrubbed Croce lyric in favor of "you don't spit into the wind." But you don't mess around with wind. 😄 

[fattyflattie 4636]

6 hours ago, justhookit said:

New boats are likely to have more maintenance issues than a very lightly used boat. Also you’ll save money.

There are times where this isn’t the case though. My last few were built to spec, and while I don’t want to type this because there’s not enough wood to knock on, I’ve had almost zero issues with the current one.  Like zero issues.   When wait times are terrible, you’ll find SCBs with 150-200 HARD hours on them for ~3-5% off out the door price.  People pay it because they don’t want to wait 12-18 months and you can’t find them anywhere but the man himself.  Same for a few other of the Texas brands but that one is the most extreme.   I don’t know if all dealers do it but mine was sea trialed a few times during propping and breakin.  Whatever they did they did right.   Now I’m certain it’s going to break in half.  

[troph 24563]

4 hours ago, G650 said:

Yall don't even want to know what the depreciation on custom one off race boats is

Stop wrecking them and you might do better on the resale market bro.

[conVINCEd 21468]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input.  I’m going to do a lot of research in the next few months.  It would seem at this point my choice would come down to smaller and newer vs. older and bigger.  Not real sure how I will decide on that, but looking forward to the process of figuring that out.

[justhookit 4180]

3 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

There are times where this isn’t the case though. My last few were built to spec, and while I don’t want to type this because there’s not enough wood to knock on, I’ve had almost zero issues with the current one.  Like zero issues.   When wait times are terrible, you’ll find SCBs with 150-200 HARD hours on them for ~3-5% off out the door price.  People pay it because they don’t want to wait 12-18 months and you can’t find them anywhere but the man himself.  Same for a few other of the Texas brands but that one is the most extreme.   I don’t know if all dealers do it but mine was sea trialed a few times during propping and breakin.  Whatever they did they did right.   Now I’m certain it’s going to break in half.  

Yeah but you and I are talking about 2 different things. I don’t think he wants either one of our boats.