Big12 is NOT dead

[SnowAggy 154]

12 minutes ago, Lloyd Christmas said:

 

Huh?  I was saying they play better competition in the sec than we do in the Big 12.  How is that even up for debate? And yes sec teams neg recruit Big 12 schools and all they have to do is compare schedules.   OU does just fine recruiting. 

You said it matters to recruits.  So if it doesn't matter why say it?

...because it's part of the OU excuse machine to leave the Big 12.

[Scholz 11944]

Just now, SnowAggy said:

...because it's part of the OU excuse machine to leave the Big 12.

Well they did try to leave.  The PAC told them to pound sand unless Texas came along.

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

1 minute ago, Scholz said:

Because it is?  The SEC consists of 3 really good teams, a couple good ones and a bunch of hangers on.  Our SOS was much higher than aggy's was last year for example.

I will say that conference plays games with the rankings to over-inflate themselves: only playing 8 conference games, playing high school teams OOC to get a higher win total each thus getting a feedback loop where everybody's ranked higher when they play each other, hand picking bowl matchups (how does that even happen btw?), etc.

Except that it's not. They a have more teams ranked (meaning the collective opinion of many people agree with me).  A hell of a lot more nfl draft picks, both overall and  average per team (So nfl scouts agree with me).   They have had much more success in the playoffs since it's inception, 4 different sec teams have won the natty since 2007 so on the field results agree with me.  This has caused perceptions to shift and now they are getting all the best talent (as indicated by recruiting rankings, which indicates who the recruits want to play for, so the recruits agree too).  We can change the perception but it stars with talent and we arent getting all the best talent like we used to.   And that  creates its own feedback loop where they just all go and recruit the best talent, win trophies and send them to the nfl. Kids see that and it's affecting everyone elses ability to be competitive.  Luckily for us Ou and Texas have the  juice to keep going  and do something any given year but the others really dont.    Our 2nd tier teams and their 2nd tier teams are IMO far apart. 

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

3 minutes ago, SnowAggy said:

You said it matters to recruits.  So if it doesn't matter why say it?

...because it's part of the OU excuse machine to leave the Big 12.

 

I said it DOES matter.  Not sure where your " So if it doesn't matter why say it?" comes into play here. 

Anyone with a brain has been wanting to leave this dumpster fire of a conference for a while now.  I'm glad OU leadership has been spearheading that.

[Al_4_ISU 12464]

1 hour ago, Lloyd Christmas said:

I can appreciate that- but i think it matters to teh recruits too.  They look at sec schedules for example and they see alabama, auburn, lsu, georgia, florida on the schedule.  The same players being recruited by Ou and Tx and we got iowa state, kansas state, baylor. I can see how negging the big 12 is helping.  Sure Texas and OU has the stones to schedule big time OOC matchups but that's once a year, and the rest of the schedule looks like pop warner football.  But hey at least the AD  raked in 187 million last year. 

This sounds like an idiot's perception of nonsense. 

OU has made 2 of the last 3 playoffs.  They did in 2015 despite having a loss to a team with a losing record.  They have the #3 recruiting class for 2019.  They make more money than most schools in the country.

How is the Big 12 hurting them in any way?  Changing conference won't make their schedule more laden with blue bloods.  If it does, they'll probably lose more games.  How is playing Purdue/Indiana/Northwestern, Mississippi State/Mizzou/Vanderbilt, or Washington State/Oregon State/Utah any different than ISU/KSU/KU?  Besides being farther away, I guess.

[SnowAggy 154]

3 minutes ago, Lloyd Christmas said:

 

I said it DOES matter.  Not sure where your " So if it doesn't matter why say it?" comes into play here. 

Anyone with a brain has been wanting to leave this dumpster fire of a conference for a while now.  I'm glad OU leadership has been spearheading that.

UT is actively trying to leave?

[Scholz 11944]

Just now, Lloyd Christmas said:

Except that it's not. 

OK.  So our SOS ending last season at #17 and aggy's ending at #41 is fictitious?  I realize we played USC and that's baked in there but the vaunted SEC should be able to overcome a single game no?

Oh look, there's OU with the #2 overall SOS last year (TCU #8, OSU #12, ISU #20).  Must be imagining things.  Go ahead and dazzle me with more data, jethro.  More of what "you think".

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

Jesus Christ.

If i wanted to read a diatribe on how much OU fans hate the Big 12 I'd go visit LandThieves.

If the Big 12 has a "perception problem," a big part of it is because the conference's marquee program for the past decade consistently shits down its own leg on the big stage. 

So maybe quit shitting the bed in big games before you complain about how the rest of the conference is "dragging you down."

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by oSuJeff97

[Scholz 11944]

Just now, oSuJeff97 said:

Jesus Christ.

If i wanted to read a diatribe on how much OU fans hate the Big 12 I'd go visit LandThieves.

A big part of the Big 12's "perception problem" is when the conference's marquee program for the past decade consistently shits down its own leg on the big stage. 

So maybe quit pissing down your own leg in big games before you complain about how the rest of the conference is "dragging you down."

 

So much this.

[Scholz 11944]

4 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

This sounds like an idiot's perception of nonsense. 

OU has made 2 of the last 3 playoffs.  They did in 2015 despite having a loss to a team with a losing record.  They have the #3 recruiting class for 2019.  They make more money than most schools in the country.

How is the Big 12 hurting them in any way?  Changing conference won't make their schedule more laden with blue bloods.  If it does, they'll probably lose more games.  How is playing Purdue/Indiana/Northwestern, Mississippi State/Mizzou/Vanderbilt, or Washington State/Oregon State/Utah any different than ISU/KSU/KU?  Besides being farther away, I guess.

Also very much this.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

5 minutes ago, Scholz said:

OK.  So our SOS ending last season at #17 and aggy's ending at #41 is fictitious?  I realize we played USC and that's baked in there but the vaunted SEC should be able to overcome a single game no?

Oh look, there's OU with the #2 overall SOS last year (TCU #8, OSU #12, ISU #20).  Must be imagining things.  Go ahead and dazzle me with more data, jethro.  More of what "you think".

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other 

Fucking facts, how do they work?

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

7 minutes ago, Scholz said:

Yes, I can refute with facts.  OU got in the playoffs with the exact scenario you're saying maybe won't let you in.  That's reality.  You're the one with conjecture.  I don't know why you $ooners cry like babies all the time about this conference.  It's never hampered you going to the playoffs a single time.  But you whine like it's holding you back.  What holds you back is you puking on yourselves when you get on the big stage, not getting there.

They got in because they were already #3.  if Ou was #5 going into the final rankings, they likely do not get because they had no CCG to play.  I even have history to back me up. 

Ohio state was #5 before their CCG in 2014 put them in to the playoffs. This was of course after TCU, not having played a CCG, dropped two spots to #5.    Michigan state was #5 before their CCG in 2015 put them in to the playoffs.  Tell me this, has there ever been a team ranked outside the top 4 actually make it in without a CCG?   I dont think so.   That would definitely support your position though.  There seems to be more data to support my position than yours.

My feelings about this conference have nothing to do with OU or the playoffs. OU will be fine no matter what.  So of course you dont get it if you assume it's all about OU.   It's not, it's about so much more than just my team. 

[Al_4_ISU 12464]

If Lincoln Riley hadn't curled up in the fetal position and shit himself in the 2nd half of that UGA game, OU probably wins the National Championship last year.

The idea of them switching conferences at this point is just fucking ridiculous, and I really can't see their admins doing it.  None of the schools who left in '10-'11 were having anywhere near the success OU has had over the past 5 years.

[Scholz 11944]

Just now, oSuJeff97 said:

Fucking facts, how do they work?

Give me facts?

OK, here you go.

No I don't like those.  It doesn't feel right.  I'll go with my gut.

Sounds like a plan.

[Scholz 11944]

Just now, Lloyd Christmas said:

My feelings about this conference have nothing to do with OU or the playoffs. OU will be fine no matter what.  So of course you dont get it if you assume it's all about OU.   It's not, it's about so much more than just my team. 

So why are you crying?

What is it all about then?

[Big Frog II 511]

I would imagine the Longhorns winning more football games would make most Big 12 hate go away.  This conference is good in football, good in basketball, and good in baseball.  What else is there?

[Scholz 11944]

Just now, Big Frog II said:

I would imagine the Longhorns winning more football games would make most Big 12 hate go away.  This conference is good in football, good in basketball, and good in baseball.  What else is there?

$ooners crying about absolutely nothing apparently.

[Al_4_ISU 12464]

2 minutes ago, Scholz said:

Give me facts?

OK, here you go.

No I don't like those.  It doesn't feel right.  I'll go with my gut.

Sounds like a plan.

You just nailed America in 2018.  You win the soul-crushing realization that this is the way the majority of human beings respond to the world at large.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

4 minutes ago, Big Frog II said:

I would imagine the Longhorns winning more football games would make most Big 12 hate go away.  This conference is good in football, good in basketball, and good in baseball.  What else is there?

We're also really good at golf.  OSU just won the national title and 4 of 8 teams in the NCAA championship final were from the Big 12.   

Edited June 4, 2018 by oSuJeff97

[utee94 15832]

I can understand Sooner fans missing their rivalry with Nebraska and blaming that on the B12 conference.  I'm a fan of neither school but I always liked that rivalry and I miss it, too.  

Maybe some Sooners also miss Colorado and Mizzou?  Although I don't know any that have stated that, to be honest.

[SnowAggy 154]

2 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I can understand Sooner fans missing their rivalry with Nebraska and blaming that on the B12 conference.  I'm a fan of neither school but I always liked that rivalry and I miss it, too.  

Maybe some Sooners also miss Colorado and Mizzou?  Although I don't know any that have stated that, to be honest.

The blame for that rests solely with UNL.  They've scheduled some OU/UNL games, btw...

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

8 minutes ago, Scholz said:

OK.  So our SOS ending last season at #17 and aggy's ending at #41 is fictitious?  I realize we played USC and that's baked in there but the vaunted SEC should be able to overcome a single game no?

Oh look, there's OU with the #2 overall SOS last year (TCU #8, OSU #12, ISU #20).  Must be imagining things.  Go ahead and dazzle me with more data, jethro.  More of what "you think".

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other 

 

You'd be better comparing the SOS of all sec and all big 12 teams instead of just a few handpicked choices here.  Final rankings would more tell the story of the conferences and we had 3 and they had 5 in the final top 25. They also had two in the playoffs and won the whole things.  You are swimming upstream if you actually think we play better football in the big 12.  Very few if anyone at all agrees with that. 

11 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Jesus Christ.

If i wanted to read a diatribe on how much OU fans hate the Big 12 I'd go visit LandThieves.

If the Big 12 has a "perception problem," a big part of it is because the conference's marquee program for the past decade consistently shits down its own leg on the big stage. 

So maybe quit shitting the bed in big games before you complain about how the rest of the conference is "dragging you down."

 

 

Frankly I am surprised you  havent used the ignore feature.  Guess that's on you. 

 

The big 12 perception problem is that they only have one marquee program. the lil bros have never been able to  be consistent, just an occasional flash in the pan.  That hasnt helped the reputation at all.  Big 12 wouldnt even be a viable conference anymore if OU hadn't had a resurgence in 2015.  I never complained about the conference " dragging us down". OU does just fine obviously.  But since OU is in this conference,  I care more about it than i do any other conference. I am not blind to the problems it faces and the perceptions that have been attributed to it. 

18 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

This sounds like an idiot's perception of nonsense. 

OU has made 2 of the last 3 playoffs.  They did in 2015 despite having a loss to a team with a losing record.  They have the #3 recruiting class for 2019.  They make more money than most schools in the country.

How is the Big 12 hurting them in any way?  Changing conference won't make their schedule more laden with blue bloods.  If it does, they'll probably lose more games.  How is playing Purdue/Indiana/Northwestern, Mississippi State/Mizzou/Vanderbilt, or Washington State/Oregon State/Utah any different than ISU/KSU/KU?  Besides being farther away, I guess.

I Never once ever said that the big 12 is hurting OU.  Why do you think I said that? And can you quote that post where  I did? Thanks.    I said the big 12 isnt all that good, and suffers from a low reputation.  The conference is a dumpster fire.   it does not mean OU is in trouble.  The conference is though. 

[Al_4_ISU 12464]

3 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I can understand Sooner fans missing their rivalry with Nebraska and blaming that on the B12 conference.  I'm a fan of neither school but I always liked that rivalry and I miss it, too.  

Maybe some Sooners also miss Colorado and Mizzou?  Although I don't know any that have stated that, to be honest.

If OU and Nebraska had wanted to protect that rivalry, they could have.

When Nebraska started pushing to leave, no one really tried to work with anyone.  As much power as those 2 schools wielded, they could have easily set up cross-division protected rivalries.

[Scholz 11944]

Just now, Lloyd Christmas said:

Very few if anyone at all agrees with that. 

Yes.  Very factual.  "I'm hearing".  "People are saying".  

OU had the #2 overall SOS last year.  Way to keep ignoring facts.

[Scholz 11944]

9 minutes ago, Scholz said:

So why are you crying?

What is it all about then?

Still waiting, Jethro.  What's your beef?

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

10 minutes ago, Scholz said:

So why are you crying?

What is it all about then?

 

It's about this  being a shitty conference. what else would it be about?

12 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

If Lincoln Riley hadn't curled up in the fetal position and shit himself in the 2nd half of that UGA game, OU probably wins the National Championship last year.

The idea of them switching conferences at this point is just fucking ridiculous, and I really can't see their admins doing it.  None of the schools who left in '10-'11 were having anywhere near the success OU has had over the past 5 years.

When the GOR expires, there will be a mass exodus from the big 12.

 

6 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I can understand Sooner fans missing their rivalry with Nebraska and blaming that on the B12 conference.  I'm a fan of neither school but I always liked that rivalry and I miss it, too.  

Maybe some Sooners also miss Colorado and Mizzou?  Although I don't know any that have stated that, to be honest.

i dont care about any of those teams who left the big 12. or rivalries with them. 

[utee94 15832]

6 minutes ago, SnowAggy said:

The blame for that rests solely with UNL.  They've scheduled some OU/UNL games, btw...

The B12 was a shotgun marriage from the beginning.  It had natural instability that manifested in ugly ways over the years.  Nebraska's departure is certainly their own fault, but some of their reasons for wanting to leave were rooted in the conference itself.  I can understand Sooner fans believing this.

At the same time, Sooners I know personally have stated their own school was as much to blame for the loss of NU-OU as an annual rivalry as anyone, as some within the OU administration were tired of getting their heads kicked in by those mid 90s juggernaut Husker teams, and didn't fight very hard when the divisional alignments ended the series as an annual rivalry.

Personally I really liked the B12 in its original incarnation and was sad to see it change, but realignment has been the one true constant in college athletics for over 100 years.  This was just one more iteration of it.

Edited June 4, 2018 by utee94

[Scholz 11944]

Just now, Lloyd Christmas said:

It's about this  being a shitty conference. what else would it be about?

OK assume that's true and it hasn't hurt your team at all.  Still not seeing why that's a problem for you.  I'm a UT fan personally.  I don't root for Bama like aggy fans.  Guess you're one of those.

[Al_4_ISU 12464]

1 minute ago, Lloyd Christmas said:

 

It's about this  being a shitty conference. what else would it be about?

When the GOR expires, there will be a mass exodus from the big 12.

 

i dont care about any of those teams who left the big 12. or rivalries with them. 

I'll take that bet about the GOR expiration exodus.

Who is leaving, where are they going, and why are they going there?

The Big 12 is really well compensated, and the members schools all seem pretty damn content.  The mega conferences are seeing reduced fan interest, and in the case of the ACC and Pac 12, they're actually making less money per school than the Big 12.  This isn't 2010.  There isn't irrational butthurt driving administrative decisions, and there just isn't incentive to leave.  Maybe something changes significantly in the next 3-4, but I doubt it.

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

1 minute ago, Scholz said:

Yes.  Very factual.  "I'm hearing".  "People are saying".  

OU had the #2 overall SOS last year.  Way to keep ignoring facts.

I never said any of that. If you want to know how  lots of folks feel about programs, you can look at their rankings, which is comprised of a bunch of people who watch football games and pay attention to the landscape of the sport.  Of course we also have the results on the field as indicators as well.   I think the proof is in the pudding if things like  winning, rankings, recruiting, and putting players into the nfl give any indication how people feel about a particular program. 

 

Not ignoring facts. OU had the #2 sos. So what? They also played ohio state and georgia.  think that helped? Can you list the SOS of all 10 teams and compare them to the 14 sec teams? or will that prove you wrong so you wont do it?

[oSuJeff97 3435]

4 minutes ago, Lloyd Christmas said:

The big 12 perception problem is that they only have one marquee program. the lil bros have never been able to  be consistent, just an occasional flash in the pan.  That hasnt helped the reputation at all. 

An "occasional flash in the pan?"   OSU and TCU are in the top 10 in the country in wins in the past decade.  That's 10 years of some pretty consistent high-level winning that's certainly MUCH better than what the programs that left the Big 12 have done.  

I (and I think everyone else here) would agree that Texas being down has been a problem. 

But don't tell me that OU getting their shit pushed in multiple times on the national stage over the past decade hasn't also been a pretty big problem.

 

[Scholz 11944]

Just now, Lloyd Christmas said:

Not ignoring facts. OU had the #2 sos. So what?

Yes.  You are.  So the Big XII isn't a shitty conference like you keep claiming which flies in the face of facts and reality. 

TCU and OSU and Texas and ISU were all in the top 20 SOS.  That's so what.  

[Scholz 11944]

4 minutes ago, Lloyd Christmas said:

Can you list the SOS of all 10 teams and compare them to the 14 sec teams? or will that prove you wrong so you wont do it?

Knock yourself out, sparky.  I'm doing your work for you, lazy ass.

Edit: Just with a quick glance, Bama, Auburn and Georgia were in the top 10.  The 4th SEC team in the top 20 was Wake.  So 4 for the SEC and 4 for the Big XII, champ.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Scholz

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

Glad Texas has $ to keep up in facilities arms races and to keep/hire the coaches we need. I don’t particularly give a shit about our conference, except we have been losing too many games the last 7 years or so

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

31 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Jesus Christ.

If i wanted to read a diatribe on how much OU fans hate the Big 12 I'd go visit LandThieves.

If the Big 12 has a "perception problem," a big part of it is because the conference's marquee program for the past decade consistently shits down its own leg on the big stage. 

So maybe quit shitting the bed in big games before you complain about how the rest of the conference is "dragging you down."

 

Lot of clowns out there.  OU and Texas are best off tied to eachother, while paired with a lot of good, but not great, teams.  People need to STFU about leaving.  

The setup is ideal to make the playoffs. After that it’s probably on your dogshit D coordinator. 

Fucking offseason. 

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

4 minutes ago, Scholz said:

OK assume that's true and it hasn't hurt your team at all.  Still not seeing why that's a problem for you.  I'm a UT fan personally.  I don't root for Bama like aggy fans.  Guess you're one of those.

I never said it was a problem for me. Why do my feelings have to be related to OU? This has nothing to do with OU at all except for the fact that OU is in the big 12.   I could be a fan of any other team and still think the conference sucks.  Do you live under a rock?  You act like only OU fans think the big 12 is a a trash heap.  News alert, it's not. 

 

6 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I'll take that bet about the GOR expiration exodus.

Who is leaving, where are they going, and why are they going there?

The Big 12 is really well compensated, and the members schools all seem pretty damn content.  The mega conferences are seeing reduced fan interest, and in the case of the ACC and Pac 12, they're actually making less money per school than the Big 12.  This isn't 2010.  There isn't irrational butthurt driving administrative decisions, and there just isn't incentive to leave.  Maybe something changes significantly in the next 3-4, but I doubt it.

I dont even know who OU is playing in 2019 much less what the specifics of the plans they have for when the GOR expires.  I would guess off the top of my head both OU and texas are gone, and probably kansas too.  Most of the 2nd tier programs would prefer to  stick with the big 12, but Ou and tx  can write their own ticket because they could go to almost any conference they want.  have you guys not been paying attention for the past few years?  Sure it's quieted down because the GOR expiration is so far away, but they have been trying to make changes to this conference  for the past 8 years.  Both Ou and tx nearly left in 2010 and we nearly added 2 more teams last year.  Things in the big 12 are in a state of flux.  we have plenty of time to right the ship and  a lot can change but  as things are now,  this shitty ass conference isnt moving the needle where it matters most.  

[Scholz 11944]

Just now, ChiTownDoc said:

Lot of clowns out there.  OU and Texas are best off tied to eachother, while paired with a lot of good, but not great, teams.  People need to STFU about leaving.  

The setup is ideal to make the playoffs. After that it’s probably on your dogshit D coordinator. 

Fucking offseason. 

Agree with all of that.

[Scholz 11944]

1 minute ago, Lloyd Christmas said:

I never said it was a problem for me. Why do my feelings have to be related to OU?

This has nothing to do with OU at all except for the fact that OU is in the big 12. 

1) Most fans care about their respective teams.  Sorry for assuming rationality in your personality.

2) WTF?

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

9 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

An "occasional flash in the pan?"   OSU and TCU are in the top 10 in the country in wins in the past decade.  That's 10 years of some pretty consistent high-level winning that's certainly MUCH better than what the programs that left the Big 12 have done.  

I (and I think everyone else here) would agree that Texas being down has been a problem. 

But don't tell me that OU getting their shit pushed in multiple times on the national stage over the past decade hasn't also been a pretty big problem.

 

Ah, and lets examine how many big 12 championships they have in the past decade.  How many trips to the playoffs they've had, and how many NY6 bowls they've won. Yeah, flash in the pan is right. But sure they have won some games, so has Boise state.   They arent winning the RIGHT ones though. It's more fun to win the right ones. 

Of course tx being down has been a problem, and  the fact that osu cant keep up isnt helping either. Our 2nd tier teams arent as good as their 2nd tier teams. 

And yes, at the same time if tx being  down and  lil bro not pulling their weight has  been a problem, then surely so it has been a problem to see the conference's best team get beat in the playoffs.   At least one of our programs is actually trying though. 

 

12 minutes ago, Scholz said:

Yes.  You are.  So the Big XII isn't a shitty conference like you keep claiming which flies in the face of facts and reality. 

TCU and OSU and Texas and ISU were all in the top 20 SOS.  That's so what.  

Yes it is.  There is the perception of the big 12, which is shitty. then the actual results, which, again, shitty.   There's a reason why the big 12 has had  1 natty since 2000 and that acc, big 10 and sec have the last 12 of them. 

 

 

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

10 minutes ago, Scholz said:

1) Most fans care about their respective teams.  Sorry for assuming rationality in your personality.

2) WTF?

1. I never said i dont care about OU.  Ugh. I said  my thoughts on OU are unrelated to my thoughts on this conference.  So you assumed not rationality, you assumed stupidity.   I have the ability to keep my feelings about Ou and the Big 12 separate. Is that so hard to understand?

2. I repeat, my thoughts on the big 12 have nothing to do with OU. 

[Scholz 11944]

OU has had plenty of chances at a national title.  Just because you fall on your face when the lights come on the big stage isn't the fault of the Big XII.

"The perception".  Yeah, got it.  Keep ignoring that 4 Big XII teams last year had a top 20 SOS.  Just like the SEC.  4.  Facts not what "perception you feel".

 

I think I have your position now though.  The Big XII is shitty even though it hasn't caused your team (which you don't care about) any harm in the least.  Got it.

 

[Al_4_ISU 12464]

2 minutes ago, Scholz said:

OU has had plenty of chances at a national title.  Just because you fall on your face when the lights come on the big stage isn't the fault of the Big XII.

"The perception".  Yeah, got it.  Keep ignoring that 4 Big XII teams last year had a top 20 SOS.  Just like the SEC.  4.  Facts not what "perception you feel".

 

I think I have your position now though.  The Big XII is shitty even though it hasn't caused your team (which you don't care about) any harm in the least.  Got it.

 

Let's not forget that using such crazy metrics like "strength of schedule" and "on-field results" the Big 12 isn't shitty at all.

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

Just now, Scholz said:

OU has had plenty of chances at a national title.  Just because you fall on your face when the lights come on the big stage isn't the fault of the Big XII.

"The perception".  Yeah, got it.  Keep ignoring that 4 Big XII teams last year had a top 20 SOS.  Just like the SEC.  4.  Facts not what "perception you feel".

 

I think I have your position now though.  The Big XII is shitty even though it hasn't caused your team (which you don't care about) any harm in the least.  Got it.

 

 

It's the collective fault of the remaining members of the big 12 that OU is the only one who has been able to be consistently any good. They are the only team with double digit wins 15 times since 2000.

Tell me how the vaunted SOS has helped the big 12?   It sure as hell didnt do shit for the draft.  sec dominated the draft.  Recruiting? Nope, we still have 3 in the top 25 and the sec has 9.     Who in the hell out there is crowing the big 12 other than some of you on this board?  NFL scouts and elite recruits have been spurning the big 12. We get godo talent, but the elite talent is going elsewhere. It's why when our good talent faces their elite talent, we lose.  Ou is the best thing this conference has had in a decade and they cant get over the hump. That's a condemnation of how bad the big 12 has fallen.    Yes it's a shitty conference despite the fact that OU remains consistently good.  And yes i do care about OU.  You just dont seem to understand that i am allowed to dislike a shitty conference and still like my team. 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

18 minutes ago, Lloyd Christmas said:

Ah, and lets examine how many big 12 championships they have in the past decade.  How many trips to the playoffs they've had, and how many NY6 bowls they've won. Yeah, flash in the pan is right. But sure they have won some games, so has Boise state.   They arent winning the RIGHT ones though. It's more fun to win the right ones. 

Of course tx being down has been a problem, and  the fact that osu cant keep up isnt helping either. Our 2nd tier teams arent as good as their 2nd tier teams. 

Right. Because being top 10 in wins over 10 years in the Big 12 is the exact same thing as it is in the Mountain West or whatever the fuck conference Boise is in.

Hardly anyone in the Big 12 has a Big 12 championship in the past decade outside of OU.  Off the top of my head I know OSU has one, I think Baylor has two and OU has the rest, right?

It's a zero sum game. If our conference heavyweights (OU and Texas) are pulling their weight, then you shouldn't see many Big 12 championships from the the next tier down... you should see about what you've got in the past 10 years... the bluebloods get 70% and then the next tier down gets the other 30%.  (If that were flipped I'm sure you'd be bitching about how the Big 12 sucks because crappy programs like OSU and TCU were winning the conference every year.)

What you would want to see from the next tier down are lots of wins and (particularly) lots of bowl wins against other conferences.  That's how the "next tier down" pulls their weight in a conference with only 10 teams.

And that's exactly what OSU, TCU (and until their implosion) Baylor have done. 

So how exactly is OSU (or TCU for that matter) "not keeping up?"  Keeping up with what? 

Edited June 4, 2018 by oSuJeff97

[Scholz 11944]

10 minutes ago, Lloyd Christmas said:

It's the collective fault of the remaining members of the big 12 that OU is the only one who has been able to be consistently any good. They are the only team with double digit wins 15 times since 2000.

So how many national titles did Stoops play for?  Didn't he blow 3 of them?  Didn't Riley blow a golden chance just last year?  How is that the conference's fault?  You're the one using national title counts as grounds for the Big XII being shitty.

Yes, OU has been consistently good.  But not when it's nut cutting time.

And the Big XII has given OU all they could've asked for in terms of bites at the apple so still not understanding the complaints from $ooners.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Scholz

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

Just now, oSuJeff97 said:

Right. Because being top 10 in wins over 10 years in the Big 12 is the exact same thing in the Big 12 as it is in the Mountain West or whatever the fuck conference Boise is in.

Hardly anyone in the Big 12 has a Big 12 championship in the past decade outside of OU.  Off the top of my head I know OSU has one, I think Baylor has two and OU has the rest, right?

It's a zero sum game. If our conference heavyweights (OU and Texas) are pulling their weight, then you shouldn't see many Big 12 championships from the the next tier down... you should see about what you've got in the past 10 years... the bluebloods get 70% and then the next tier down gets the other 30%.  (If that were flipped I'm sure you'd be bitching about how the Big 12 sucks because crappy programs like OSU and TCU were winning the conference every year.)

What you would want to see from the next tier down are lots of wins and (particularly) lots of bowl wins against other conferences.  That's how the "next tier down" pulls their weight in a conference with only 10 teams.

And that's exactly what OSU, TCU (and until their implosion) Baylor have done. 

So how exactly is OSU (or TCU for that matter) "not keeping up?"  Keeping up with what? 

 

You just crowed about wins, so  I brought up another team with a shitloaod of  mostly meaningless wins, just like osu. osu has a shitload of meaningless wins.  A few good ones though, but most of 'em were meaningless.    But hey they were good in 2011 when they lost the most meaningful game probably in the history of the program (had they beaten iowa state, who knows what would have happened).

They havent been keeping up because there has been little parity.  OU has dominated the conference winning it 10 of the last 17 seasons.   They have been good, sure, competitive most years, sure. But not giving OU much competition.Look at the head to head results of OU vs every big 12 team for in the Stoops era. It's like they are the only ones trying.   At the top we have OU and historically texas.  sec has alabama and georgia at the top right now.  Who is their next tier down? Auburn, lsu, florida, mississippi.  Compare tcu, osu, wvu, and who , tech? And who do we compare tennessee, s. carolina, and arkansas to?  kstate, kansas, baylor?   I mean hell their 2nd tier teams keep up nicely and even occasionally win a national title.   Ours well, lol, it is what it is.

[SnowAggy 154]

12 minutes ago, Lloyd Christmas said:

 

It's the collective fault of the remaining members of the big 12 that OU is the only one who has been able to be consistently any good. They are the only team with double digit wins 15 times since 2000.

Tell me how the vaunted SOS has helped the big 12?   It sure as hell didnt do shit for the draft.  sec dominated the draft.  Recruiting? Nope, we still have 3 in the top 25 and the sec has 9.     Who in the hell out there is crowing the big 12 other than some of you on this board?  NFL scouts and elite recruits have been spurning the big 12. We get godo talent, but the elite talent is going elsewhere. It's why when our good talent faces their elite talent, we lose.  Ou is the best thing this conference has had in a decade and they cant get over the hump. That's a condemnation of how bad the big 12 has fallen.    Yes it's a shitty conference despite the fact that OU remains consistently good.  And yes i do care about OU.  You just dont seem to understand that i am allowed to dislike a shitty conference and still like my team. 

You just said in a prior post OU was doing just fine so what's the difference?  Why do you care so much about the big 12?

[Lloyd Christmas 119]

12 minutes ago, Scholz said:

So how many national titles did Stoops play for?  Didn't he blow 3 of them?  Didn't Riley blow a golden chance just last year?  How is that the conference's fault?  You're the one using national title counts as grounds for the Big XII being shitty.

Yes, OU has been consistently good.  But not when it's nut cutting time.

And the Big XII has given OU all they could've asked for in terms of bites at the apple so still not understanding the complaints from $ooners.

Uhh man  i didnt say it's the conferences fault OU lost those games.  I said its the collective fault of the rest of the big 12 that OU is the only good team in the damn conference.  Did you even read my post? National titles is just one facet of it. sec has multiple teams winning titles, the big 12 has one team vying for it.  That's what's shitty.  auburn, lsu, bama and florida all have won recently.  Georgia just played for one.  The only team who has won for us is texas, and OU is the only team who has even competed for one in the past decade. 

I am not a sooner in this context, i am an outside observer, observing that the big 12 stinks.  It doesnt matter that i am an OU fan, my fanhood doesnt change the facts man. this conference stinks. 

6 minutes ago, SnowAggy said:

You just said in a prior post OU was doing just fine so what's the difference?  Why do you care so much about the big 12?

Because I want to see better football.  i want to see my team play better teams. i want to see other big 12 teams actually being competitive and winning big games. I dont want OU to be the only conference team who is good enough to win some playoff games.  I want to see better talent in this conference and i want to see more big 12 players in the nfl.   I want this conference to have a bigger impact.   At the end of the day it cant hurt OU.  But its so much more than how it affects OU though. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Lloyd Christmas

[Scholz 11944]

Just now, Lloyd Christmas said:

Because I want to see better football.  i want to see my team play better teams. i want to see other big 12 teams actually being competitive and winning big games. I dont want OU to be the only conference team who is good enough to win some playoff games.  I want to see better talent in this conference and i want to see big 12 players in the nfl.  

OK I'll bite.  What would your conference preference be after the media rights expire in 2025?

[Al_4_ISU 12464]

At some point, the lack of Big 12 players in the NFL has as much to do with the NFL as the Big 12.

Look at Iowa.  They put a fuck ton of players in the NFL, and 90% of the time they're between 6-9 wins in the worst P5 division, routinely struggling against teams outside the Big 10.  But they're loaded with NFL talent because they run NFL schemes and NFL teams are very willing to pass over talent in favor of guys who played in a similar system.
 

I get why people use it as a measuring stick, but you don't have to look that far to see it's not a great one either.