Ah shit. USMC Osprey down in SoCal...4 dead

[Gil Bang 26046]

SAN DIEGO — 

A Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey crashed in Glamis in Imperial County on Wednesday, the Marines said in a statement.

“We can confirm that an aircraft belonging to 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing crashed near Glamis, CA.,” said 1st Lt. Duane Kampa, a Marine spokesperson, in a statement. “Military and civilian first responders are on site.”

Marine Capt. Brett Vannier, a spokesman for Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, told the Union-Tribune the service is not commenting on the number of Marines on board at this time.

The Los Angeles Times, citing an unnamed federal source, said five people were on board and four are dead. A search is underway for the fifth, The Times reported.

Kampa pushed back against rumors online that nuclear material was on board the aircraft.

“Contrary to initial reports, there was no nuclear material on board the aircraft,” Kampa said. “More information will be made available as we receive it.”

Naval Air Facility El Centro posted on its Facebook page just after 1:30 p.m. that it received reports of a downed aircraft in the vicinity of Coachella Canal Road and state Route 78.

The military said fire crews, including Imperial County Fire Department, were responding.

 

 

“We have no additional details at this time. As facts become verified and available, information will be released on the base’s Facebook page,” the post read.

Imperial County officials confirmed that the plane crash was reported in the Glamis area, and referred all other queries to the military. No further information was immediately available.

Ospreys are flown by the Marines, Navy and Air Force fly versions of the Osprey to transport troops and equipment. The tiltrotor aircraft has a higher top speed and longer range than a helicopter but is able to hover and land in a similar manner.

In March, four North Carolina-based Marines were killed in another Osprey crash during a NATO exercise in Norway.

[Gil Bang 26046]

Meanwhile, an Apache went down this week in Alabama, but not fatal, and not my kid. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Gil Bang

[Sbbruin 21898]

Ugh.  Awful.

[DalTxHornFan 3118]

I haven't done the research, but, anecdotally, those Osprey's seem to be rather prone to failure.  RIP to the deceased Marines.

[ztejas 43545]

I heard Rick Fox was on board. 

[Brisketexan 105425]

Shit.  Those birds scare me.

[Mittens 8312]

19 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I haven't done the research, but, anecdotally, those Osprey's seem to be rather prone to failure. 

Crashes by aircraft since Jan 1, 2015

6 Osprey
6 Blackhawk
0 Chinook

(not particularly exhaustive research.  google/wiki)

[DalTxHornFan 3118]

12 minutes ago, Mittens said:

Crashes by aircraft since Jan 1, 2015

6 Osprey
6 Blackhawk
0 Chinook

(not particularly exhaustive research.  google/wiki)

That said, there are more than 4,000 Blackhawks in service vs. a total of 481 Osprey's ever produced.  Not a great look for the Osprey's safety record.

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/sikorsky-black-hawk-helicopter.html#:~:text=The U.S. Army is the,2%2C135 H-60 designated aircraft.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2022/04/08/production-of-the-v-22-osprey-is-ending-the-pentagon-needs-to-be-sure-it-has-bought-enough/?sh=1b5084fead9e

[Pato del Muerto 52614]

Didn’t they ground the osprey for a long time over crashes, or maybe development took a long time before the usmc would take them?

[Gil Bang 26046]

38 minutes ago, Mittens said:

Crashes by aircraft since Jan 1, 2015

6 Osprey
6 Blackhawk
0 Chinook

(not particularly exhaustive research.  google/wiki)

And the Apache as mentioned above. 

[Gil Bang 26046]

BTW, for those that aren't familiar, Glamis is nothing but sand dunes, and is paradise for the off-roader.  Dune buggies and ATV's are thick as fuck there, particularly on the weekends.  It's a wild party scene, too wild for me. 

[cabowabo 4514]

RIP

Edited June 9, 2022 by cabowabo

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

50 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Didn’t they ground the osprey for a long time over crashes, or maybe development took a long time before the usmc would take them?

Yeah.  But I thought they figured out the issue.  Be interesting if this was caused by the same thing or not. 

[Herbie Hancock 7376]

I heard Rick Fox was on board. 

You honestly thought this was funny enough to post? Good grief I can only hope you haven’t procreated

[Herbie Hancock 7376]

Yeah.  But I thought they figured out the issue.  Be interesting if this was caused by the same thing or not. 

The issue with most of the Osprey crashes, as is the case with most helicopter crashes civilian or military, was operator error.

[Guest]

story says no nukes were on board.

That didn't cross my mind in the first place.  Didn't know that was necessarily in their mission.

[Mother mopar 3324]

That said, there are more than 4,000 Blackhawks in service vs. a total of 481 Osprey's ever produced.  Not a great look for the Osprey's safety record.
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/sikorsky-black-hawk-helicopter.html#:~:text=The U.S. Army is the,2%2C135 H-60 designated aircraft.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2022/04/08/production-of-the-v-22-osprey-is-ending-the-pentagon-needs-to-be-sure-it-has-bought-enough/?sh=1b5084fead9e

There's a reason the Osprey are called widow makers amongst the mx folks in the military.

[WBT 20671]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

BTW, for those that aren't familiar, Glamis is nothing but sand dunes, and is paradise for the off-roader.  Dune buggies and ATV's are thick as fuck there, particularly on the weekends.  It's a wild party scene, too wild for me. 

That's out around the Salton Sea right?

[Mother mopar 3324]

Yeah.  But I thought they figured out the issue.  Be interesting if this was caused by the same thing or not. 

The early aircraft were plagued with problems to include the transition from vertical lift to straight flight. Something about the rotor head and it's transitioning mechanism which was powered via hydro which lead to fires.

[Mother mopar 3324]

The issue with most of the Osprey crashes, as is the case with most helicopter crashes civilian or military, was operator error.

Not always true bud. Aircraft, rotor or not can always be contributed to three overarching things...Maintenance, operations, and logistics. While there are many other factors they can contribute to a crash they will fall under those three things including human factors, technical data, training, documentation, etc.

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

25 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

The issue with most of the Osprey crashes, as is the case with most helicopter crashes civilian or military, was operator error.

Operator error cuz it is a flawed system (Osprey)...(not arguing with you)

[Blotto 23584]

13 minutes ago, slorch said:

story says no nukes were on board.

That didn't cross my mind in the first place.  Didn't know that was necessarily in their mission.

That was my first thought, as well. Who the fuck thinks Ospreys carry nukes? 

Second one in a few months

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1583054/US-plane-crash-Norway-NATO-exercise-ont

[Born to Run 6569]

BTW, for those that aren't familiar, Glamis is nothing but sand dunes, and is paradise for the off-roader.  Dune buggies and ATV's are thick as fuck there, particularly on the weekends.  It's a wild party scene, too wild for me. 

Fuck yeah its a California motor head party mecca. People drop serious coins on dune quad rigs, sand cars bikes, and rvs and then party hard. Weird scene.

Sucks about the downed troops. They work the fuck out of those Ospreys on Camp Pendleton, so much so, that I could see accidents being common. It's an unfortunate effect of preparedness, but the member of incidents is concerning.

[Born to Run 6569]

The early aircraft were plagued with problems to include the transition from vertical lift to straight flight. Something about the rotor head and it's transitioning mechanism which was powered via hydro which lead to fires.

Thanks, as always, for the insight. Genuinely.

[Pato del Muerto 52614]

1 hour ago, Blotto said:

That was my first thought, as well. Who the fuck thinks Ospreys carry nukes? 

Second one in a few months

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1583054/US-plane-crash-Norway-NATO-exercise-ont

Probably social media stupidity spreading they they needed to shut down. 

[Ag with kids 581]

4 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I haven't done the research, but, anecdotally, those Osprey's seem to be rather prone to failure.  RIP to the deceased Marines.

They aren't.

And RIP to those Marines...

[Ag with kids 581]

1 hour ago, BillyGoatHill said:

Operator error cuz it is a flawed system (Osprey)...(not arguing with you)

No it's not. (arguing with you)

[Ag with kids 581]

2 hours ago, Mother mopar said:

2 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Yeah.  But I thought they figured out the issue.  Be interesting if this was caused by the same thing or not. 

The early aircraft were plagued with problems to include the transition from vertical lift to straight flight. Something about the rotor head and it's transitioning mechanism which was powered via hydro which lead to fires.

Incorrect.

[TwiceHorn 31541]

17 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

Incorrect.

I think you worked for Bell during Osprey development.  They were a client of mine at the time, too.

I disremember the cause of the failures, but do remember there were a lot of them, whatever the cause(s).

So, kindly elaborate.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Oh man.

My Marine ships to San Diego tomorrow.

His MOS platform are these helicopters.

[InkaUtexas 26164]

RIP Marines. 

[Zepol87 9193]

Damn Osprey was one of our "practice" runs in C school for ATC. Can't imagine honestly. RIP 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Zepol87

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

8 hours ago, Ag with kids said:

Incorrect.

Look here, aggy, just because something was a cool concept and you happened to work on it, doesn’t mean it isn’t a crappy platform.   

[Scheiss Meister 8413]

RIP, Marines.  Semper Fidelis.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13528]

I've long worked with software and not hardware but in my experience hybrid products are never as good as the individual parts that they're combining. At least in the initial iterations.

Uneducated opinion: need a helicopter, use a helicopter. Need a plane, use a plane. 

[FartingMonk 3608]

The first gen ospreys almost got discontinued because of so many deaths.  It was sync error between the rotors when going from helo to prop.  If you are even a few seconds off it sends you into a death spiral. Those issues had been addressed.  What caused this one I don't know but I absolutely know whoever wrote the article is a fucking idiot by including the nuke statement

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13528]

4 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

The first gen ospreys almost got discontinued because of so many deaths.  It was sync error between the rotors when going from helo to prop.  If you are even a few seconds off it sends you into a death spiral. Those issues had been addressed.  What caused this one I don't know but I absolutely know whoever wrote the article is a fucking idiot by including the nuke statement

 

Apparently there are enough rumors about the nuclear material that the USMC felt they had to address it. You don't think that the press should report that a rumor is incorrect?

[FartingMonk 3608]

5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Apparently there are enough rumors about the nuclear material that the USMC felt they had to address it. You don't think that the press should report that a rumor is incorrect?

I take it back.  I reached out to a friend asked about the nuclear materials thing.  The first responders were correct in identifying what they saw.  

[captcha 50]

13 hours ago, slorch said:

story says no nukes were on board.

That didn't cross my mind in the first place.  Didn't know that was necessarily in their mission.

[Ag with kids 581]

11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think you worked for Bell during Osprey development.  They were a client of mine at the time, too.

I disremember the cause of the failures, but do remember there were a lot of them, whatever the cause(s).

So, kindly elaborate.

Yeah...I was at Bell from 2001-2018.  Worked numerous years on the V-22 simulator.

Below is what I stated was wrong.

Quote

The early aircraft were plagued with problems to include the transition from vertical lift to straight flight. Something about the rotor head and it's transitioning mechanism which was powered via hydro which lead to fires.

 

There was ONE engine fire incident.  It had NOTHING to do with the the nacelle transitioning between aircraft and helicopter mode.

There WAS a hydraulic leak on one, but it didn't cause a fire.  It actually triggered a control law error.

Most of the crashes have been pilot error or Vortex Ring State incidents (which in the worst case WAS pilot error because they were outside the flight envelope for descent rate).  VRS basically means the wake forms a ring that begins to push the rotor down.  Normally when you sink, you would add TCL (thrust control lever) to add power - but that only INCREASES the force pushing down making the descent rate increase.  Only way to get out is to fly out of the wake - which can be done by just pushing the nacelle wheel and rotating the nacelle a few degrees...the wake then stops coming down on top of the rotor and voila you're out of VRS.

And I disagree the V-22 was "plagued with problems".  Yes.  There were several crashes prior to going operational in 2007 (IIRC).  But, ALL flight test programs have had crashes.  From 1991-2006 there were 4 crashes (and 1 was pilot error).  And 10s of thousands of flight hours.

 

[Ag with kids 581]

1 hour ago, FartingMonk said:

The first gen ospreys almost got discontinued because of so many deaths.  It was sync error between the rotors when going from helo to prop.  If you are even a few seconds off it sends you into a death spiral. Those issues had been addressed.  What caused this one I don't know but I absolutely know whoever wrote the article is a fucking idiot by including the nuke statement

 

This is simply not true.  See my comment above.

Now...there WERE attempts to discontinue it - most notably by every Surly's favorite guy, Dick Cheney.

And, yeah...there were no nukes on any of them.   That's asinine.

[Wally Fairway 5588]

The denial of nukes on those birds seems very odd to me; and for the record there has been no denial made that Aliens from Area 51 were on the Osprey. 

Just saying [insert I'm not saying it's aliens meme]

[JesusSweatDuck 17813]

2 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

The denial of nukes on those birds seems very odd to me; and for the record there has been no denial made that Aliens from Area 51 were on the Osprey. 

Just saying [insert I'm not saying it's aliens meme]

for effect

[Gil Bang 26046]

14 hours ago, WBT said:

That's out around the Salton Sea right?

Correct.  My beloved, dying, smelly Salton Sea. 

10 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Oh man.

My Marine ships to San Diego tomorrow.

His MOS platform are these helicopters.

Tell him welcome to Paradise, and Semper Fi.

He's going to Miramar? 

Also, fuck Uncle Sam.  My kid's in fucking Alabama, and your's is in San Diego? 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Gil Bang

[FartingMonk 3608]

18 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

The denial of nukes on those birds seems very odd to me; and for the record there has been no denial made that Aliens from Area 51 were on the Osprey. 

Just saying [insert I'm not saying it's aliens meme]

There was stuff on board to detect nukes onboard which had a radioactive source. CBRN stuff as part of their training mission

[Wally Fairway 5588]

5 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

There was stuff on board to detect nukes onboard which had a radioactive source. CBRN stuff as part of their training mission

Okay, that makes sense; though still no denial forthcoming about aliens (tin foil hat firmly planted on skull)

[Ag with kids 581]

16 hours ago, Mittens said:

Crashes by aircraft since Jan 1, 2015

6 Osprey
6 Blackhawk
0 Chinook

(not particularly exhaustive research.  google/wiki)

https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/aviation-accident/helicopter-crashes/black-hawk-helicopter-crashes/

According to this..there have been 11 Blackhawk crashes between Dec 2019 and Feb 2021.  So, 11 crashes in 15 months.

There have been 14 V-22 crashes (and 8 other incidents) since 1991.

Yes, there's more Blackhawks.  But, that's still quite a few crashes.

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Correct.  My beloved, dying, smelly Salton Sea. 

Tell him welcome to Paradise, and Semper Fi.

He's going to Miramar? 

Also, fuck Uncle Sam.  My kid's in fucking Alabama, and your's is in San Diego? 

What platform is your son involved with?  Couldnt remember fixed wing or rotor. 

[Gil Bang 26046]

What platform is your son involved with?  Couldnt remember fixed wing or rotor. 

He flys Apaches.
Meanwhile

[nedtugent 28]

17 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Shit.  Those birds scare me.

how many accidents / deaths in those things over the years?