January 6th Committee Hearings Thread of Dominance

[Pato del Muerto 52,498]

The fact that questions over the lunging and letter have more or less sidetracked this thread should inform one’s opinion of what it is doing in the public at large. 

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

No.  As I concluded, Trump can likely escape justice via pardon whenever a GQP administration comes to power.  Timing isn't really the issue.

If he weren't able to do this:

 

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

appeals every pretrial decision, which normally doesn't work, but because of the potential issues surrounding presidential immunity, might actually work), it is still likely to be on appeal and not a final conviction several years into the future.

then perhaps we could actually see some consequences.  But, as you said, he very well may be able to do exactly that, thus validating exactly what I said originally.  I know you love to defend the justice system and talk down to us plebs, but just for once admit that these assholes have figured out how to get around the law and there's fuck all we can do about it.

[jimmyjazz 45,954]

13 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Plus, he thinks he's going to his coronation.

Exactly.  Trump in action:

[Beau Vine 54,230]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

It's eyewitness testimony. Something being obviously untrue casts doubt on the validity of everything else that was said. That's how the world has always worked. That's especially how the world works the past 6 years.

Do tell...

[TexasEd 8,067]

15 hours ago, Pods said:

They had Jonathan Swan of Axios on earlier. All of them, including him, were super aggressively angry earlier at the committee for putting Hutchinson's "second-hand testimony" about the Secret Service interactions without presenting "primary testimony". 

They neglected to mention that Meadows is refusing to provide said "primary testimony". 

The problem for meadows is he was playing both sides with Trump.  I believe this would be pretty close to what happened:

Trump: I don't see the trip to the Capitol after the rally on the itinerary.

Meadows: Don, don't worry it is on the shadow plan, You're going.

----

Meadows: Engle, Hutchinson, don't let Trump anywhere near the Capitol.

Cipollone: Yeah, we'll be charged for all kinds of crimes.

----

[In the car]

Trump: Take me to the Capitol

Engle: Sir, we can't go there we are not prepared

Trump: Fuck that Meadows. Arrrggghh!

Edited June 29, 2022 by TexasEd

[Chad Fuck 17,682]

11 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

The problem for meadows is he was playing both sides with Trump.  I believe this would be pretty close to what happened:

Trump: I don't see the trip to the Capitol after the rally on the itinerary.

Meadows: Don, don't worry it is on the shadow plan, You're going.

----

Meadows: Engle, Hutchinson, don't let Trump anywhere near the Capitol.

Cipollone: Yeah, we'll be charged for all kinds of crimes.

----

[In the car]

Trump: Take me to the Capitol

Engle: Sir, we can't go there we are not prepared

Trump: Fuck that Meadows. Arrrggghh!

Pretty sure this is exactly what happened. It's been stated many times, by many different handlers in many different contexts.  They always had to have some distraction to refocus him, because he is a mental toddler.  Meadows being the umpteenth Chief of Staff would've likely been briefed on this by 20 people before showing up to work the first day. 

[TwiceHorn 31,471]

4 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

If he weren't able to do this:

 

then perhaps we could actually see some consequences.  But, as you said, he very well may be able to do exactly that, thus validating exactly what I said originally.  I know you love to defend the justice system and talk down to us plebs, but just for once admit that these assholes have figured out how to get around the law and there's fuck all we can do about it.

I don't mean to talk down to people.**  I do get frustrated with the incessant "why not done" thing and the related, in my opinion unfounded digs on Garland.

And, regardless of how fast the justice system worked, the whole pardon thing could frustrate it all.

Finally, I am pretty frustrated with our set of laws to deal with this kind of thing.  Everyone seems to think laws were broken, including the lawbreakers, but finding an actual criminal statute that fits is harder than it probably ought to be.

**ETA:  beyond the scope of ordinary surly assholishness, anyway.

Edited June 29, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Captainant 27,669]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't mean to talk down to people.  I do get frustrated with the incessant "why not done" thing and the related, in my opinion unfounded digs on Garland.

And, regardless of how fast the justice system worked, the whole pardon thing could frustrate it all.

Finally, I am pretty frustrated with our set of laws to deal with this kind of thing.  Everyone seems to think laws were broken, including the lawbreakers, but finding an actual criminal statute that fits is harder than it probably ought to be.

It's almost like using good faith to deal with people acting in bad faith will only lead to exploiting the good faith actors

[Michael Knight 12,978]

So the only reason America is still standing is because Trump is an abject failure at everything.

[Pig Bellmont 8,718]

 

[Beau Vine 54,230]

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19,190]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

Plus, he thinks he's going to his coronation. He thinks this is his only shot at staying in office. He needs the safety of the White House and power of the presidency to forestall the shit storm of his private affairs and likely criminal prosecution. He wants to be king.

A horse! A horse! My kingdom lost for a horse!

He wasn't mad because they didn't have time to pick up some drive-thru McDonalds. This was an existential crisis moment. For him, it was the same as though the car were sinking into the Potomac and he had to get out.

At the time he didn’t know how lazy and ineffective the new AG would be. We sure fooled him. 

[TwiceHorn 31,471]

31 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

 

Hands are entirely too large.

[WhatTheBuck 28,781]

2 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Hell, his mistress could have an abortion on live TV and he'd still probably win.

He could shoot her newborn child on 5th Ave. and not lose any support. 

[jimmyjazz 45,954]

2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

He could shoot her newborn child on 5th Ave. and not lose any support. 

Well, yeah.  I mean, once it's born . . .

[Eskimohorn 5,635]

Yes. He's a coward and a pussy. Squirming around trying to unbuckle his seatbelt is much more on brand.

You think he wears a seatbelt? For various reasons I think its unlikely he’s ever worn one.

[Eskimohorn 5,635]

Yes. He's a coward and a pussy. Squirming around trying to unbuckle his seatbelt is much more on brand.

You think he wears a seatbelt? For various reasons I think its unlikely he’s ever worn one.

[DDD Dad 14,339]

2 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

You think he wears a seatbelt? For various reasons I think its unlikely he’s ever worn one.

Even if they had extenders.

[brakeman 28,369]

FAFO!

[Eskimohorn 5,635]

Even if they had extenders.

Backseat belts were not required for most of his life. He always been driven. Why would he wear a seltbelt even with extenders?

The driver has already been interviewed prior to this testimony. It would be unenforced error if the committee let Hutchison’s testimony on this detail fly when its not true in any versio

[DixonHur 11,304]

1 minute ago, brakeman said:

FAFO!

Not a lawyer, is it common to take the property before being served the warrant?  I'd hate to see this fuck get off on a technicality.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

[Cousin Strawberry 1,261]

14 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Not a lawyer, is it common to take the property before being served the warrant?  I'd hate to see this fuck get off on a technicality.

it is common.  If a valid warrant exists prior to the search there is no requirement that it be provided to the subject prior to search.  

[Gil Bang 25,958]

16 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Not a lawyer, is it common to take the property before being served the warrant?  I'd hate to see this fuck get off on a technicality.

They were searching him for a weapon.  It's kosher.

[Goredho 17,406]

3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The fact that questions over the lunging and letter have more or less sidetracked this thread should inform one’s opinion of what it is doing in the public at large. 

Best post of the last 48 hours, unfortunately.

I'm not sure its not intentional.  I mean, why not just spout a bunch of bullshit to anyone who will listen so as to provide insurance later?   If they wind up testifying under oath about what they heard and include some of the bullshit, you just focus attention on the bullshit that is provably false.  The mind of a MAGAT is desperately seeking a respite from the cognitive dissonance brought about by the light of truth shining on Trump's actions around the 2020 election.  They will happily latch on to inconsequential details as a means to maintain their threatened reality.

[Guest]

Question for the gallery -- Does Trump's bullshit and the subsequent claims from every Republican candidate that loses (even in their own primary) of voter fraud eventually turn into a "boy who cried wolf" situation?

Was just reading through this article about the Colorado primary for SoS: https://www.yahoo.com/news/indicted-election-denier-tina-peters-031611473.html

It has all the usual suspects... Dominion, MyPillow guy. Reading through the comments (yes, it is Daily Best, but hosted on Yahoo), it's universally dogging people claiming fraud every election. Any chance that these folks have shot their wad to the point that no one listens to them anymore?

 

[TwiceHorn 31,471]

2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Question for the gallery -- Does Trump's bullshit and the subsequent claims from every Republican candidate that loses (even in their own primary) of voter fraud eventually turn into a "boy who cried wolf" situation?

Was just reading through this article about the Colorado primary for SoS: https://www.yahoo.com/news/indicted-election-denier-tina-peters-031611473.html

It has all the usual suspects... Dominion, MyPillow guy. Reading through the comments (yes, it is Daily Best, but hosted on Yahoo), it's universally dogging people claiming fraud every election. Any chance that these folks have shot their wad to the point that no one listens to them anymore?

 

In a sane world, it already would have.

[Upgrayedd 5,812]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

Not a lawyer, is it common to take the property before being served the warrant?  I'd hate to see this fuck get off on a technicality.

 

53 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

They were searching him for a weapon.  It's kosher.

They smelled weed.  

[The Dog 44,051]

44 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Question for the gallery -- Does Trump's bullshit and the subsequent claims from every Republican candidate that loses (even in their own primary) of voter fraud eventually turn into a "boy who cried wolf" situation?

Was just reading through this article about the Colorado primary for SoS: https://www.yahoo.com/news/indicted-election-denier-tina-peters-031611473.html

It has all the usual suspects... Dominion, MyPillow guy. Reading through the comments (yes, it is Daily Best, but hosted on Yahoo), it's universally dogging people claiming fraud every election. Any chance that these folks have shot their wad to the point that no one listens to them anymore?

 

If they were doing it only for when they lost to Democrats, then they could do it and get away with it.

But these clowns have no message discipline so they are turning on their own. It's going to become a meme at this rate. 

[Satchel 6,938]

4 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The fact that questions over the lunging and letter have more or less sidetracked this thread should inform one’s opinion of what it is doing in the public at large. 

Very true, and fwiw…

According to Woodruff Swan, Engel was "the special agent in charge on Jan. 6, 2021, meaning he was responsible for protecting the president from 'socks on to socks off' — the whole work day. In that role, he rode from the White House to that day’s 'Stop the Steal' rally with Trump in the presidential armored car called 'The Beast.'

The report adds that the committee asked him about the day's details and "how the Secret Service handled the day’s chaos."

A Secret Service spokesperson confirmed the sit-down in a statement that said, "Every single member of the Secret Service who was requested by the committee has been provided to them. We fully support and are cooperating with the committee’s work. Employees, documentation, whatever is requested by the committee, we have cooperated with.

https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-jan-6th-2657470900/?cx_testId=6&cx_testVariant=cx_undefined&cx_artPos=4&cx_experienceId=EXC93HV4HK4I#cxrecs_s

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

1 minute ago, Satchel said:

meaning he was responsible for protecting the president from 'socks on to socks off' — the whole work day.

so like, a couple of hours?

[Gap03 3,307]

44 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

In a sane world, it already would have.

Yeah, but the goal has never been to prove election fraud by the Dems (which pretty much never happens).  It's always been to pollute the well for everyone, so that every claim of election fraud sounds like projection / retaliatory claims / etc.  Go over to Texags - for every claim we make about projection / "every accusation being a confession", they see it the exact opposite. 

Ratfuckery works.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,190]

Yesterday's imagery du jour was dotard freaking out like a dog going to the vets.

Today, the image I have seared in my brain wrt to him struggling against the seatbelt to get at the driver is your typical drunk bro at the bar telling his buddies to hold him back so he doesn't whoop somebody's ass.

"You better be glad this seat belt has me tied down, else I would so whoop your ass and drive this vehicle straight up the capitol steps."

[miguelito 11,266]

It's a little surprising he didn't issue an executive order later that day outlawing seatbelts. 

[elfenix 34,241]

5 hours ago, yoladu said:

the absence of the usual shit flingers on the committee looking to deflect, distract, pontificate, and filibuster has been refreshing.

 

you mean like gym?

 

 

 

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

1 minute ago, elfenix said:

 

you mean like gym?

 

 

 

[Chewbacca 7,779]

19 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

YEP.  This is why the in laws are flabbergasted when we tell them things about dotard and the GOP.  Their immediate reaction is "no way that happened" because their only news source is Fox.  They try to claim it's not, but it 100% is.  MIL strangely "doesn't watch Fox News", but has every single moron talking point ready to go at a moment's notice.  

What is it with our parents' generation and Fox News?  They all watch it, but few will admit to watching it, and the ones who will admit it will always say they have other sources.  But their talking points come straight from Tucker.  And when you call them on that, it's deer in the headlights and silence.

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

6 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

What is it with our parents' generation and Fox News?  They all watch it, but few will admit to watching it, and the ones who will admit it will always say they have other sources.  But their talking points come straight from Tucker.  And when you call them on that, it's deer in the headlights and silence.

I've been wrestling with this.  They KNOW it's wrong and they KNOW it's bullshit, but they just don't care.  They like the high they get from being pissed off at fantasy.  It's really a sickness.

[elfenix 34,241]

13 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

What is it with our parents' generation and Fox News?  They all watch it, but few will admit to watching it, and the ones who will admit it will always say they have other sources.  But their talking points come straight from Tucker.  And when you call them on that, it's deer in the headlights and silence.

mine watch hgtv/food channel, sports, and colbert. 

i should probably consider myself lucky. 

[Chewbacca 7,779]

7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I've been wrestling with this.  They KNOW it's wrong and they KNOW it's bullshit, but they just don't care.  They like the high they get from being pissed off at fantasy.  It's really a sickness.

My dad is the same.  He'll bring up some bullshit talking point straight from Fox and I'll just tell him that he should stop watching Fox because they are lying to him (I've shown him in the past the Tucker lawsuit where his lawyers admitted in court that he regularly lies).  Then he just gets really quiet and looks at me.  I can see the wheels turning trying to figure out how I know he still watches Fox.  It would be fascinating if he wasn't my dad.

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:

My dad is the same.  He'll bring up some bullshit talking point straight from Fox and I'll just tell him that he should stop watching Fox because they are lying to him (I've shown him in the past the Tucker lawsuit where his lawyers admitted in court that he regularly lies).  Then he just gets really quiet and looks at me.  I can see the wheels turning trying to figure out how I know he still watches Fox.  It would be fascinating if he wasn't my dad.

I think they don't understand that we pay attention to the world (ok the Surl) and that includes keeping an eye on the bullshit Fox News talking points.  They know we decry Fox News, but can't figure out how we would know what it is saying without watching it.  The olds don't understand the internet at all.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

5 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The fact that questions over the lunging and letter have more or less sidetracked this thread should inform one’s opinion of what it is doing in the public at large. 

eh, i have mixed feelings about this.

yes, the grabby stuff has twitter in a twist, but some anonymous (and specific) denials of trivial shit also has me thinking that everything else she said was true - otherwise we would've heard more denials and nonsense from the right. 

they deny literally everything bad said about them so their denials don't carry much with me, sorry to say.  the idea that a couple mis-rememberings or whatever we're calling them will "hurt us in cross" doesn't seem to apply here.  if the gop wants to run their mouth or get at her, they'll need to participate, which they don't want to do.

she's not some smoking (smocking?) gun witness.  she was there to paint a picture because she had a really good seat.  like i previously said, it seemed like she was there to shake the trees or turn over the rocks or whatever you want to call it, and get some more people in to talk.  you could argue the entire day was based on that, and that's what cheney said at the end of the hearing.

the public at large is not what i'm concerned with right now, as we've already seen they have the attention span of a spice rack.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,870]

[Chewbacca 7,779]

8 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think they don't understand that we pay attention to the world (ok the Surl) and that includes keeping an eye on the bullshit Fox News talking points.  They know we decry Fox News, but can't figure out how we would know what it is saying without watching it.  The olds don't understand the internet at all.

Not only this, but the Fox talking points are unique to them.  Nobody else says things the same way (or in a lot of cases, nobody else says the same things at all).  They're quite easy to identify.

[Willfully Horn 8,017]

Jim Wright, aka Stonekettle, has a new essay. His comments would fit into this discussion.

 

“What in Trump's history would give me any faith at all? 

What in America's history? 

Shit, we pardoned fucking Nixon, right? He got away with it. People look back on him now with fondness. Oh, Tricky Dick, he was a crook, but he loved America! 

Ronald Reagan sold weapons to our enemies -- literally sold weapons to our enemies -- and we did nothing. Less than nothing. We let him get away with treason right out in broad daylight. Oh, that's just Ronny. You know how he is. And the Lieutenant Colonel who led that caper? Yeah, he got a pardon and he's a fucking hero nowadays with his own radio show.””

https://www.stonekettle.com/2022/06/when-good-men-do-nothing.html?fbclid=IwAR3_6SPSfipAR_7_SmOSWDdY7qsiCIAL87whPpY3YpfT9PFBtV-dnU0DD_Q&m=1
 

These days my angry hot takes come from reading the game plan of the New Right. When folks tell you who they are, believe them.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Willfully Horn

[Eskimohorn 5,635]

it is common.  If a valid warrant exists prior to the search there is no requirement that it be provided to the subject prior to search.  

But it makes for cool scenes jn movies. “You gotta warrant!?!”

[Bama Chick 28,596]

What is it with our parents' generation and Fox News?  They all watch it, but few will admit to watching it, and the ones who will admit it will always say they have other sources.  But their talking points come straight from Tucker.  And when you call them on that, it's deer in the headlights and silence.

It’s their reality tv/sporting event.

[TexasEd 8,067]

2 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Question for the gallery -- Does Trump's bullshit and the subsequent claims from every Republican candidate that loses (even in their own primary) of voter fraud eventually turn into a "boy who cried wolf" situation?

Was just reading through this article about the Colorado primary for SoS: https://www.yahoo.com/news/indicted-election-denier-tina-peters-031611473.html

It has all the usual suspects... Dominion, MyPillow guy. Reading through the comments (yes, it is Daily Best, but hosted on Yahoo), it's universally dogging people claiming fraud every election. Any chance that these folks have shot their wad to the point that no one listens to them anymore?

 

 

1 hour ago, Gap03 said:

Yeah, but the goal has never been to prove election fraud by the Dems (which pretty much never happens).  It's always been to pollute the well for everyone, so that every claim of election fraud sounds like projection / retaliatory claims / etc.  Go over to Texags - for every claim we make about projection / "every accusation being a confession", they see it the exact opposite. 

Ratfuckery works.

Yes, the plan is to create enough noise with all the messing with elections bullshit so they can set the stage to steal an election and then claim is is just bullshit noise when they really do it.

If someone walked down the street and triggered every car alarm but didn't steal anything and kept this up for a while people stop paying attention to the alarms so then when they really are broken into or stolen people just ignore it.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

4 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

 

Yes, the plan is to create enough noise with all the messing with elections bullshit so they can set the stage to steal an election and then claim is is just bullshit noise when they really do it.

If someone walked down the street and triggered every car alarm but didn't steal anything and kept this up for a while people stop paying attention to the alarms so then when they really are broken into or stolen people just ignore it.

right, i mean, doesn't the wolf eat the boy at the end of the story?  i can't remember, i suck at finishing books.

[Sawbonz 27,562]

30 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

And the Lieutenant Colonel who led that caper? Yeah, he got a pardon and he's a fucking hero nowadays with his own radio show.””

Had forgotten Ollie was a light colonel.  But of course he was