January 6th Committee Hearings Thread of Dominance

[Dnaguy 12,030]

5 hours ago, Born to Run said:

7 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

yeah, but so far, we don't even know if cipollone knew they were committing crimes. 
except for the times he said, "they're going to charge us with all these crimes".

Yeah but so far in this matter, I was stoked to learn his legal first name was Pasquale, only to learn I have fucking zero jokes for said name, none, including zero Pasquale lame dad jokes. I got dickaroo over here, I disappoint myself. Nada, zip. Ol pat can skate and I can't do shit to even make it uncomfortable. I hope his yard is unhealthy at least. Maybe underwatered....

 

5 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i am workshopping some material. 

Its a pretty uncommon name.

My advice is to put less pressure on yourself and go with a name that sounds close to make a joke.

There’s close to 101325 examples of stuff you could pull right out of thin air.

But ultimately you’re going to have to set the Bar for yourself. 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

6 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

IIRC, CH testified that he said something like, "We're going to get charged with every crime imaginable."

For some reason, that gives me optimism that he's going to spill his guts and make a bigger impact than CH.   

Same.  My sense of it is that this guy is a lawyer, not a politician or powermonger.  There will probably be a few occasions where he assets privilege in order to keep his law license and job, but he can probably convey the same information from a different conversation or incident.

[Red Five 40,879]

 

 

[Macanudo 13,005]

9 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

i'm 24 hours behind so if this has been postulated apologies......

what if.....  meadows told multiple people about the beast incident, and they got a 2nd corroboration in writing or on tape, from another witness, which then put them in position to put her on the record in front of the world.   bait.

/trap specialist

 

We're gonna need  a bigger ledge.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Macanudo

[Pato del Muerto 52,554]

3 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

 

Its a pretty uncommon name.

My advice is to put less pressure on yourself and go with a name that sounds close to make a joke.

There’s close to 101325 examples of stuff you could pull right out of thin air.

But ultimately you’re going to have to set the Bar for yourself. 

 

This is the way. 

[Sawbonz 27,582]

This dude seems like a real piece of shit. I wonder if they will subpoena him

[DDD Dad 14,346]

15 hours ago, Underdog said:

 

 

17 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

It's a dog eat dog world, eh The Dog?

 

[DDD Dad 14,346]

dp

Edited June 30, 2022 by DDD Dad

[The Dog 44,081]

13 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

This dude seems like a real piece of shit. I wonder if they will subpoena him

Just saw a clip of her on CNN saying the exact same thing. 

Also, she has spoken to Casey since her testimony. There may even be more - the thing is she can only answer what she is asked by the committee. Also, she started to "connect the dots" after her original taped testimony and realized she had more to offer. So Casey got rid of her Trump-provided lawyer and got her own, then went on the air with live testimony.

And then there's this:

There's more coming.

Buckle up.

[henrygandorf 29,194]

2 hours ago, The Dog said:

Just saw a clip of her on CNN saying the exact same thing. 

Also, she has spoken to Casey since her testimony. There may even be more - the thing is she can only answer what she is asked by the committee. Also, she started to "connect the dots" after her original taped testimony and realized she had more to offer. So Casey got rid of her Trump-provided lawyer and got her own, then went on the air with live testimony.

And then there's this:

There's more coming.

Buckle up.

there have been repeated and numerous comparisons to col jessup, for obvious reasons.  put trump on the stand, he's likely to slip up, yada yada.  we all know he's never going on the stand. 

but there's a different part of that movie that keeps coming back to me - when talking about putting jessup on the stand, caffey says, "i think he wants to say it i think he's pissed off he has to hide from us, i think he wants to say he gave an order and that was the end of it" or whatever.

this is how i see the actual "republicans" if those even exist anymore.  the type that will go back to being regular shitbags instead of trumper shitbags if trump got hit by a bus tomorrow.  hearing stories of mark meadows scrolling on his phone telling his aide and others that trump just isn't doing that today, or doesn't want to do this or that, seems like a dude on the verge. 

i think meadows, mccarthy, mcconnell, a bunch of them are pissed off and exhausted that this is their life and everything hinges on the audience of one.  peel back the fringe loons (mtg, jordan, gaetz, eastman, rudy, etc) and i think you have a group of people that if properly motivated and insured, would all turn on trump in a heartbeat just to get out from under.  you know those conversations have already happened.  it probably won't help the citizens or our country in the short term, but it may save us all in the end.

relying on terrible people to do something ordinary.  this is where we are.

 

[PhillyD 1,257]

27 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

there have been repeated and numerous comparisons to col jessup, for obvious reasons.  put trump on the stand, he's likely to slip up, yada yada.  we all know he's never going on the stand. 

but there's a different part of that movie that keeps coming back to me - when talking about putting jessup on the stand, caffey says, "i think he wants to say it i think he's pissed off he has to hide from us, i think he wants to say he gave an order and that was the end of it" or whatever.

 

i think meadows, mccarthy, mcconnell, a bunch of them are pissed off and exhausted that this is their life and everything hinges on the audience of one.  peel back the fringe loons (mtg, jordan, gaetz, eastman, rudy, etc) and i think you have a group of people that if properly motivated and insured, would all turn on trump in a heartbeat just to get out from under.  you know those conversations have already happened.  it probably won't help the citizens or our country in the short term, but it may save us all in the end.

 

 

Sorry, but this just isn't true.  They had their big chance after the 6th and could have impeached.  You can tell McConnell wanted to but he was to chicken shit to step up and give everyone cover to vote to impeach.  We know McCarthy was pissed but he went back to Mar a Lago and kissed Trump's balls.  So fuck them.  Fuck them for not stepping up and being pussies on their last good chance to step up and do the right thing.  Liz Cheney has more balls than all of them combined.

[henrygandorf 29,194]

14 minutes ago, PhillyD said:

Sorry, but this just isn't true.  They had their big chance after the 6th and could have impeached.  You can tell McConnell wanted to but he was to chicken shit to step up and give everyone cover to vote to impeach.  We know McCarthy was pissed but he went back to Mar a Lago and kissed Trump's balls.  So fuck them.  Fuck them for not stepping up and being pussies on their last good chance to step up and do the right thing.  Liz Cheney has more balls than all of them combined.

not sure what "isn't true".  i never said it would happen, i just think that's probably how a chunk of them are feeling.  we basically have heard it from mcconnell and others already, they are just too chickenshit to act on it, like you said.  unfortunately the rubber won't meet the proverbial road until the 2024 republican primaries, which trump likely won't even participate in - he'll just wait to be named the nominee.

[DDD Dad 14,346]

21 minutes ago, PhillyD said:

Sorry, but this just isn't true.  They had their big chance after the 6th and could have impeached.  You can tell McConnell wanted to but he was to chicken shit to step up and give everyone cover to vote to impeach.  We know McCarthy was pissed but he went back to Mar a Lago and kissed Trump's balls.  So fuck them.  Fuck them for not stepping up and being pussies on their last good chance to step up and do the right thing.  Liz Cheney has more balls than all of them combined.

Pretty sure they impeached him.  Twice (well, once before the 6th and once after).

Edited June 30, 2022 by DDD Dad

[Red Five 40,879]

I think we're conflating impeach and convict here. He was never in danger of being convicted, because (R). 

[Mdhorn 5,978]

I don't know that we can venture guesses on what terrible people will do.  They worked for the man, have defended his crimes repeatedly, and now we're supposed to believe they're tired?  They sold their souls a long time ago, so it's going to be difficult knowing when the tipping point actually will occur.  But if we're doing this, the evidence of witnessing tampering that was exposed by Liz might be a Coming to Christ moment.  

[PhillyD 1,257]

3 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I think we're conflating impeach and convict here. He was never in danger of being convicted, because (R). 

Correct.  I should have said voted to convict.  Also, didn't mean to imply Gandorf said something that wasn't true.  I'm just (still) pissed off beyond measure that they couldn't muster enough courage to convict Trump when they had the obvious chance.  They are pussies.

[Goredho 17,413]

There are true believers and there are  opportunists.  MTG, Boobert, etc... are true believers.  People like McConnell are opportunists that used Trump to get the SCOTUS and beat Hilary.  The opportunists will ally with Trump as long as it’s politically advantageous.  Trump understands this and works hard to make it politically damaging to oppose him within the party.  The heads of Flake, McCain, Romney and Cheney out front should have told you.  As long as standing against Trump within the GOP makes them a conservative Pariah, the opportunists will stay in check.

[Red Five 40,879]

Can we impeach him again, just for the hell of it? Assuming we wouldn't get a conviction, but think about all the shit that's come out since his last impeachment. The Georgia phone call alone is worth it. 

[Slacks 6,838]

1 hour ago, Red Five said:

Can we impeach him again, just for the hell of it? Assuming we wouldn't get a conviction, but think about all the shit that's come out since his last impeachment. The Georgia phone call alone is worth it. 

Mighty as well. Same result. Not shit.

USA will never convict a President... 

[yoladu 4,094]

18 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

His real name is fucking Pasquale? Go home, simulation, you're drunk

 

14 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

No shit.  I'm waiting for someone named Jean-Ralphio to be subpoenaed.

we already got. Igor Furman and Lev Parnas

 

[TexasEd 8,067]

2 hours ago, PhillyD said:

Sorry, but this just isn't true.  They had their big chance after the 6th and could have impeached.  You can tell McConnell wanted to but he was to chicken shit to step up and give everyone cover to vote to impeach.  We know McCarthy was pissed but he went back to Mar a Lago and kissed Trump's balls.  So fuck them.  Fuck them for not stepping up and being pussies on their last good chance to step up and do the right thing.  Liz Cheney has more balls than all of them combined.

 

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

not sure what "isn't true".  i never said it would happen, i just think that's probably how a chunk of them are feeling.  we basically have heard it from mcconnell and others already, they are just too chickenshit to act on it, like you said.  unfortunately the rubber won't meet the proverbial road until the 2024 republican primaries, which trump likely won't even participate in - he'll just wait to be named the nominee.

 

1 hour ago, Mdhorn said:

I don't know that we can venture guesses on what terrible people will do.  They worked for the man, have defended his crimes repeatedly, and now we're supposed to believe they're tired?  They sold their souls a long time ago, so it's going to be difficult knowing when the tipping point actually will occur.  But if we're doing this, the evidence of witnessing tampering that was exposed by Liz might be a Coming to Christ moment.  

I think all the ones that know better, want to do the right thing and get out from under the idiot king are like Upham in Saving Private Ryan.

They could save their comrade, the country, but they are just too chickenshit to walk up the stairs and end it.

 

 

[Gatorubet 30,284]

2 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

 But if we're doing this, the evidence of witnessing tampering that was exposed by Liz might be a Coming to Christ moment.  

Or not…..

[Mdhorn 5,978]

If you asked Trump Jesus last name, pretty sure he couldn't answer.  

[The Original Greaser Bob 2,844]

Or he'd mispronounce it as Quinn-Tana.

[Gil Bang 25,987]

 

 

[Sawbonz 27,582]

Front and to the left

 

[sidis 9,832]

4 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

there have been repeated and numerous comparisons to col jessup, for obvious reasons.  put trump on the stand, he's likely to slip up, yada yada.  we all know he's never going on the stand. 

but there's a different part of that movie that keeps coming back to me - when talking about putting jessup on the stand, caffey says, "i think he wants to say it i think he's pissed off he has to hide from us, i think he wants to say he gave an order and that was the end of it" or whatever.

this is how i see the actual "republicans" if those even exist anymore.  the type that will go back to being regular shitbags instead of trumper shitbags if trump got hit by a bus tomorrow.  hearing stories of mark meadows scrolling on his phone telling his aide and others that trump just isn't doing that today, or doesn't want to do this or that, seems like a dude on the verge. 

i think meadows, mccarthy, mcconnell, a bunch of them are pissed off and exhausted that this is their life and everything hinges on the audience of one.  peel back the fringe loons (mtg, jordan, gaetz, eastman, rudy, etc) and i think you have a group of people that if properly motivated and insured, would all turn on trump in a heartbeat just to get out from under.  you know those conversations have already happened.  it probably won't help the citizens or our country in the short term, but it may save us all in the end.

relying on terrible people to do something ordinary.  this is where we are.

 

they could have easily cut his throat on january 7th. they could have impeached and convicted his sorry ass and been completely done with him.  mitch could have ended him if he really wanted to.  he showed a small glimmer of not being heinous on the evening of 1/6 but it dissipated by the next day.

[Pods 7,586]

46 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Or not…..

Get your fucking hands off me Jesus. I wanna go to the Capital. 

[henrygandorf 29,194]

6 minutes ago, sidis said:

they could have easily cut his throat on january 7th. they could have impeached and convicted his sorry ass and been completely done with him.  mitch could have ended him if he really wanted to.  he showed a small glimmer of not being heinous on the evening of 1/6 but it dissipated by the next day.

well they've got until the fall of 2024 to make it happen or it's over forever.  he's at his weakest right now in every possible way.  once he becomes president again, he will be indestructible.

 

[Gatorubet 30,284]

1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

How did they manage to kill you when you had Shermans on the mount? Shoulda blasted their asses from high ground and held a victory parade.   They stopped my parade in D.C.   Fucking losers, amirite?  

[C-Man 27,247]

36 minutes ago, sidis said:

they could have easily cut his throat on january 7th. they could have impeached and convicted his sorry ass and been completely done with him.  mitch could have ended him if he really wanted to.  he showed a small glimmer of not being heinous on the evening of 1/6 but it dissipated by the next day.

This. Mitch could've put this country out of its collective Trump misery. And he didn't do it. So fuck him.

[tchookem 3,905]

they could have easily cut his throat on january 7th. they could have impeached and convicted his sorry ass and been completely done with him.  mitch could have ended him if he really wanted to.  he showed a small glimmer of not being heinous on the evening of 1/6 but it dissipated by the next day.

I think we're all learning just how useful Trump has been to Mitch McConnell. They played Trump like a fiddle, got their justices, and now they're gonna throw Trump under the bus. One day Trump will realize it too, but I doubt it. If only Trump could sway his cult to turn on McConnell, but that ain't happening.

[Francisco 2.0 32,405]

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

3 hours ago, sidis said:

they could have easily cut his throat on january 7th. they could have impeached and convicted his sorry ass and been completely done with him.  mitch could have ended him if he really wanted to.  he showed a small glimmer of not being heinous on the evening of 1/6 but it dissipated by the next day.

Those votes, though.

[sidis 9,832]

5 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

well they've got until the fall of 2024 to make it happen or it's over forever.  he's at his weakest right now in every possible way.  once he becomes president again, he will be indestructible.

 

I disagree. I think he was at his weakest on 1/7.  Everyone was distancing. Even Hannity, Graham, Mitch, McCarthy…they were all treating him radioactively.  They truly thought he went too far and they read the opportunistic winds that night as throwing him under the bus being the best outcome. They very temporarily underestimated just what a group of garbage their base really was. They quickly found out. Watch the video of Graham getting harassed in the terminal at Reagan just a few days later by the maga mongoloids. They quickly pivoted and Mitch played the Dems again on delaying the conviction proceedings.

Now, time has passed and they have shifted to mitigating and diminishing the severity of what occurred. If they would have called it tourists, little dust ups, etc on 1/7, they would have been roasted.  Now it is part of the coordinated whitewashing. Look at the more deplorable shits like the sack and eurohorn trying to reframe the conversation cleverly…sarcastically calling it Pearl Harbor and similar tactics to imply overreaction to something inconsequential while the more useful idiot types like rex and icono say it was no big deal because they were too stupid to be effective or successful. Watch the Klepper video where people were pretending like they weren’t even familiar with what happened.  No one would have tried to pull that bullshit on 1/7.  On 1/7, he was truly vulnerable. Mitch could have executed Trump’s political life that day by fast tracking the conviction process. He was too chickenshit which is surprising honestly. He got everything he wanted out of him. Now he’s a nuisance to him.

These hearings have demonstrated a level of corruption and outright criminal behavior that in any other era, it would be so humiliating that a party would do everything they can to destroy Trump and rebrand away from him. Hell, the hearings shouldn’t even be necessary…just playing the tape of trump’s conversation with the republican Secretary of State from Georgia over and over should be enough for 90% of this country to say holy shit, this is literally, not figuratively, literally the definition of autocratic, corrupt behavior that spits in the face of everything we pretend to hold sacred and special about our nation and the notion of democracy. When I think of that call, I think of the whole meme from the end of “a time to kill”…”close your eyes, hear these words recorded pressuring an election official to commit fraud and conjure votes that would directly undermine the electoral outcome…now, imagine she’s white/it’s Obama saying them.” If a single other person in the world had been recorded saying what trump said in that conversation, it would have been their permanent demise and likely a criminal conviction. 

Instead, he raised tens of millions of dollars from people who couldn’t afford it off it for his personal use. These fucking flag waving dipshits who claim to love freedom and all the other pithy cliches…wanted a monarch and were willing to financially contribute to the effort, go to jail and realize financial ruin, and even be shot to death in pursuit breaking through a window in the capitol to make it happen with not even the slightest sense of the irony.

And Mitch figured that out. As crass and shallow as it may sound, it really is the monologue from the Dark Knight where Alfred describes the mafia turning to the Joker…a man they didn’t really understand.  Obama becoming president, homosexual rights to marry, all the culture war losses…but the country club republicans did not understand what they were unleashing…a man and supporters where reason, decency, integrity, all that trite shit…it was a flaw. 

These hearings are enlightening and well presented to anyone paying attention…but in terms of trying to shame Trump or the maga mongoloids, it is like trying to shame a sociopathic murderer for being mean to other people. 

[Biff Tannen 45,697]

[Pods 7,586]

14 minutes ago, sidis said:

I disagree. I think he was at his weakest on 1/7.  Everyone was distancing. Even Hannity, Graham, Mitch, McCarthy…they were all treating him radioactively.  They truly thought he went too far and they read the opportunistic winds that night as throwing him under the bus being the best outcome. They very temporarily underestimated just what a group of garbage their base really was. They quickly found out. Watch the video of Graham getting harassed in the terminal at Reagan just a few days later by the maga mongoloids. They quickly pivoted and Mitch played the Dems again on delaying the conviction proceedings.

Now, time has passed and they have shifted to mitigating and diminishing the severity of what occurred. If they would have called it tourists, little dust ups, etc on 1/7, they would have been roasted.  Now it is part of the coordinated whitewashing. Look at the more deplorable shits like the sack and eurohorn trying to reframe the conversation cleverly…sarcastically calling it Pearl Harbor and similar tactics to imply overreaction to something inconsequential while the more useful idiot types like rex and icono say it was no big deal because they were too stupid to be effective or successful. Watch the Klepper video where people were pretending like they weren’t even familiar with what happened.  No one would have tried to pull that bullshit on 1/7.  On 1/7, he was truly vulnerable. Mitch could have executed Trump’s political life that day by fast tracking the conviction process. He was too chickenshit which is surprising honestly. He got everything he wanted out of him. Now he’s a nuisance to him.

These hearings have demonstrated a level of corruption and outright criminal behavior that in any other era, it would be so humiliating that a party would do everything they can to destroy Trump and rebrand away from him. Hell, the hearings shouldn’t even be necessary…just playing the tape of trump’s conversation with the republican Secretary of State from Georgia over and over should be enough for 90% of this country to say holy shit, this is literally, not figuratively, literally the definition of autocratic, corrupt behavior that spits in the face of everything we pretend to hold sacred and special about our nation and the notion of democracy. When I think of that call, I think of the whole meme from the end of “a time to kill”…”close your eyes, hear these words recorded pressuring an election official to commit fraud and conjure votes that would directly undermine the electoral outcome…now, imagine she’s white/it’s Obama saying them.” If a single other person in the world had been recorded saying what trump said in that conversation, it would have been their permanent demise and likely a criminal conviction. 

Instead, he raised tens of millions of dollars from people who couldn’t afford it off it for his personal use. These fucking flag waving dipshits who claim to love freedom and all the other pithy cliches…wanted a monarch and were willing to financially contribute to the effort, go to jail and realize financial ruin, and even be shot to death in pursuit breaking through a window in the capitol to make it happen with not even the slightest sense of the irony.

And Mitch figured that out. As crass and shallow as it may sound, it really is the monologue from the Dark Knight where Alfred describes the mafia turning to the Joker…a man they didn’t really understand.  Obama becoming president, homosexual rights to marry, all the culture war losses…but the country club republicans did not understand what they were unleashing…a man and supporters where reason, decency, integrity, all that trite shit…it was a flaw. 

These hearings are enlightening and well presented to anyone paying attention…but in terms of trying to shame Trump or the maga mongoloids, it is like trying to shame a sociopathic murderer for being mean to other people. 

The only time there has been a realistic shot to end Trump was the immediate aftermath. They should have impeached him immediately after certification was completed, or the next day at the absolute latest. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Pods

[GenXer 2,912]

7 hours ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Or he'd mispronounce it as Quinn-Tana.

2 Corinthians. Both of ‘em.

[henrygandorf 29,194]

2 hours ago, Pods said:

The only time there has been a realistic shot to end Trump was the immediate aftermath. They should have impeached him immediately after certification was completed, or the next day at the absolute latest. 

the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. the second best time is right now. 

[StassneyHorn 6,624]

On 6/29/2022 at 10:37 PM, Born to Run said:

On 6/29/2022 at 8:43 PM, henrygandorf said:

yeah, but so far, we don't even know if cipollone knew they were committing crimes. 
except for the times he said, "they're going to charge us with all these crimes".

Yeah but so far in this matter, I was stoked to learn his legal first name was Pasquale, only to learn I have fucking zero jokes for said name, none, including zero Pasquale lame dad jokes. I got dickaroo over here, I disappoint myself. Nada, zip. Ol pat can skate and I can't do shit to even make it uncomfortable. I hope his yard is unhealthy at least. Maybe underwatered....

Something about Fibonacci sequence and Pascal’s triangle. Haha I thought there wouldn’t be math

chevychase gif

[Francisco 2.0 32,405]

Hutchinson's testimony is causing others to speak up now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/01/trump-capitol-riot-march/

 

Quote

Toward the end of 2020, then-President Donald Trump began raising a new idea with aides: that he would personally lead a march to the Capitol on the following Jan. 6.

Trump brought it up repeatedly with key advisers in the Oval Office, according to a person who talked with him about it. The president told others he wanted a dramatic, made-for-TV moment that could pressure Republican lawmakers to support his demand to throw out the electoral college results showing that Joe Biden had defeated him, the person said.

 

 

Quote

The excursion that almost happened came into clearer focus this week, as the House committee investigating the attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021 presented explosive testimony and records detailing Trump’s fervent demands to lead his supporters mobbing the seat of government. Though Trump’s trip was ultimately thwarted by his own security officers, the new evidence cuts closer to the critical question of what he knew about the violence in store for that day.

Trump has acknowledged his foiled effort to reach the Capitol. “Secret Service wouldn’t let me,” he told The Washington Post in April. “I wanted to go. I wanted to go so badly. Secret Service says you can’t go. I would have gone there in a minute.”

 

Quote

But as Trump repeatedly floated the idea in the weeks leading up to Jan. 6, several of his advisers doubted he meant it or didn’t take the suggestion seriously. One senior administration official said Trump raised the prospect repeatedly but in a “joking manner.”

As a result, the White House staff never turned Trump’s stated desires into concrete plans. Press officers made no preparations for a detour to the Capitol, such as scheduling an additional stop for the motorcade and the pool of reporters who follow the president’s movements. There was no operational advance plan drafted for the visit. No speech was written for him to deliver on the Hill, and it wasn’t clear exactly what Trump would do when he got there, said the person who talked with Trump about the idea.

 

Spoiler

This account of Trump’s ceaseless plotting to join the mob at the Capitol on Jan. 6 is based on committee testimony and evidence as well as 15 former officials, aides, law enforcement officials and others, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to reveal internal details.

Aides did not know where Trump got the idea, this person said, but it wasn’t from inside the White House. The chief of staff, Mark Meadows, discussed plans to bring Trump to the Capitol with Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.) and lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who was leading the campaign’s efforts to overturn the election results, according to testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson, a close aide to Meadows.

“I remember hearing a few different ideas discussed between Mark and Scott Perry, Mark and Rudy Giuliani,” Hutchinson said in videotaped testimony to the Jan. 6 committee played during Tuesday’s hearing. “I know that there were discussions about him having another speech outside of the Capitol before going in. I know that there is a conversation about him going into the House chamber at one point.”

Meadows declined to comment through his attorney. Giuliani and a spokeswoman for Perry did not respond to requests for comment.

Hutchinson’s attorneys said Wednesday that she “stands by all of the testimony she provided yesterday, under oath.”

Hutchinson’s account was supported by other testimony played at the hearing. “He brought it up, he said, ‘I want to go down to the Capitol,” Max Miller, a White House aide now running for Congress in Ohio, said in taped testimony. But Miller’s entire testimony wasn’t played, where he suggested it was a short-lived idea, according to people familiar with the matter.

Some White House officials were out of the loop. Ordinarily, the White House’s legislative affairs staffers would be involved in a visit to Capitol Hill, but they were not briefed on any plans for him to go on Jan. 6, according to two senior administration officials. Aides to Vice President Mike Pence heard secondhand from other White House advisers that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol, but they were never given a formal plan and did not expect him to follow through, according to a Pence adviser with direct knowledge of their plans.

“There was no plan for what to do if Trump showed up,” the Pence adviser said. “Frankly, we didn’t think it was going to happen.”

Some of his allies said Trump never brought up the idea of going to the Capitol with them, even as he bandied it about internally with his aides and Secret Service team. “Not to my knowledge was he ever coming up here,” said Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), who regularly talked with Trump in the days leading up to Jan. 6. “To me, I don’t see him going to a riot.”

On Jan. 4, Trump raised the issue with several White House aides again, but Secret Service and senior staff warned him it would be logistically impossible and dangerous, a person familiar with the discussion said. Another adviser said the Secret Service was particularly skittish about a trip to the Capitol because a trip in November — when Trump went into a crowd of election fraud protesters in Washington — was viewed as nightmarish and difficult to manage.

 

The next day, on the eve of the rally, Tony Ornato, the White House deputy chief of staff for operations, told a senior staffer there was no possibility they were going to the Capitol, saying, “That is not part of the plan,” the staffer recalled.

Trump, though, seemed to have other ideas. Just before he addressed the rally on the Ellipse, Trump gathered with family members and close aides in a tent backstage. As Trump looked at monitors showing a video feed of the crowd, Hutchinson testified that she overheard him complaining about unoccupied space in the shot and wanting more people to enter. According to her testimony, Ornato explained to Trump that some people in the crowd couldn’t go through the security screening because they had weapons.

“I overheard the president say something to the effect of, ‘I don’t care that they have weapons, they’re not here to hurt me,'” Hutchinson testified. She also recalled hearing Trump say, “Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol after the rally’s over.”

The moment was captured in photographs that the committee obtained from the National Archives and displayed during the hearing. The scene in the tent also appeared in a video recorded by Donald Trump Jr., showing the president looking at the screens and talking to Meadows and his daughter Ivanka while Kimberly Guilfoyle danced to Laura Branigan’s “Gloria.”

Other people in the tent at the time did not respond to requests for comment or declined to corroborate or dispute Hutchinson’s account on the record. Some Secret Service officials told the committee they did not recall Trump saying he wanted to admit more people despite being warned of weapons in the crowd, according to a person briefed on their testimony.

Trump denied wanting to let in people with guns. “Who would ever want that? Not me!” he posted on his Truth Social platform.

When Trump took the stage, he told the rally, “We’re going to walk down and I’ll be there with you.” The remark stunned staffers who didn’t understand that to be the plan.

“I told people we were not really going to the Capitol,” recalled the senior staffer who has spoken with Ornato. “It never crossed my mind that was legitimate.”

But as Trump left the stage, he made clear he was serious. That’s when his personal assistant, Nick Luna, first became aware of Trump’s desire to go to the Capitol, according to his taped testimony played at Tuesday’s hearing.

Hutchinson testified that she overheard Meadows tell the president he was still working on arranging the trip up Capitol Hill. According to Hutchinson, she told Meadows that Ornato said the movement wasn’t possible, and Meadows responded, “Okay,” before getting into the motorcade.

 

“MOGUL’s going to the Capital [sic] … they are clearing a route now,” a National Security Council staffer posted to an internal chat obtained by the committee, using Trump’s Secret Service code name.

“They are begging him to reconsider,” another message said. When a planned route was posted to the chat, the log shows a staffer responding, “So this is happening.”

Inside the presidential SUV, Trump’s demands to go to the Capitol culminated in a dramatic showdown, according to Hutchinson, who said Ornato described the incident to her shortly afterward. By her account, Trump was under the impression from Meadows that his surprise trip to the Capitol was about to happen. In the car, Secret Service agent Bobby Engel told Trump the route to the Capitol could not be secured and they would return to the West Wing, Hutchinson said.

“The president had a very strong, very angry response to that,” she testified. “Tony described him as being irate. The president said something to the effect of, ‘I’m the f-ing president. Take me up to the Capitol now.’”

When Engel insisted that the car was instead bound for the White House, Hutchinson said Trump reached toward the steering wheel. Engel grabbed his arm, Hutchinson testified, and said, “Sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We’re going back to the West Wing. We’re not going to the Capitol.”

According to Hutchinson’s testimony about Ornato’s account to her, Trump used his other hand to lunge toward Engel. When Ornato told this story to Hutchinson, with Engel in the room, she said, he gestured toward his collarbones. When Hutchinson recounted this at the hearing, she placed a hand at the base of her neck.

Trump denied trying to grab the steering wheel, calling Hutchinson’s testimony “'sick' and fraudulent.” Ornato and Engel were not asked about the incident when they testified to the committee, the person briefed on the Secret Service testimony said.

Trump spokesman Taylor Budowich dismissed Hutchinson’s testimony in a statement Thursday: “The fact that The Washington Post is still trying to peddle testimony from a witness who has been widely discredited, and who many believe perjured herself — which is a felony — is an absolute embarrassment.”

Three agents who accompanied Trump on Jan. 6 are disputing that Trump assaulted or grabbed at Engel and/or the steering wheel, according to one current and one former law enforcement official familiar with their accounts. The three agents, Engle and Ornato are also willing to testify under oath to the committee about their recollection of events on Jan. 6 in the Secret Service vehicle, the two people said. The three agents do not dispute that Trump was furious that the agents would not take him to the Capitol.

Even after the car returned Trump to the West Wing, he still wouldn’t let go of wanting to reach the Capitol.

“When we got back to the White House, he said he wanted to physically walk with the marchers, and according to my notes, he then said he’d be fine with just riding the Beast,” former press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said in videotaped testimony to the committee, referring to the nickname for the fortified presidential limo. “He wanted to be a part of the march in some fashion.”

Trump was furious with Meadows for failing to make the trip happen, Hutchinson testified that Meadows told her. By the time they were back in the West Wing, the televisions were showing live coverage of the rioters overpowering police and getting closer to the Capitol’s doors and windows. Hutchinson testified that she entered Meadows’s office and asked him if he was watching.

“The rioters are getting really close,” she recalled asking the chief of staff. “Have you talked to the president?”

“No,” Meadows answered, while scrolling and texting on his phone, according to Hutchinson’s testimony, “he wants to be alone right now.”

 

[Red Five 40,879]

the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. the second best time is right now. 

Wouldn’t the second best time be 19 years ago? Now is like 20th best.

[Francisco 2.0 32,405]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-sleeper-wire-fraud-scheme-that-could-nail-trumpworld-jan-6-committee?ref=scroll

 

Quote

On Nov. 7, 2020—the day television networks called the election for Joe Biden—then-President Donald Trump’s campaign manager was trying his best to break through to his deluded boss: The election was over.

Specifically, as Bill Stepien, the Trump campaign manager, later said in his testimony to the Jan. 6 Committee, Trump’s chances had dwindled since the election to the point where they were “very, very, very bleak.” The campaign hadn’t been able to verify any claims of voter fraud, and Stepien placed little hope in any “realistic legal challenges.”

 

Quote

That same day, the Trump campaign sent a fundraising email claiming that “President Trump will easily WIN the Presidency of the United States with only legal votes cast.” The solicitation called on supporters to donate any dollar amount and join something called the “Election Defense Task Force.” The campaign, it said, was “counting on members to help [Trump] fight back and secure FOUR MORE YEARS.”

While the Jan. 6 hearings have delivered explosive testimony and evidence suggesting that a number of former administration officials may face criminal liability related to the attack on the Capitol—possibly all the way up to Trump—there’s another potential criminal liability that has largely been lost in the news.

 

Quote

That would be the sprawling wire fraud conspiracy which the Jan. 6 special select committee alleged in its second hearing, on June 13, a scheme which legal experts say contains the ingredients for possible federal charges against officials with the campaign and the Republican National Committee—as well as Trump himself.

The fundamentals of that case may have been lost under the hearing’s success—the instantly viral revelation that Trump had raised $250 million on the Big Lie, much of it for a legal fund that didn’t exist.

But the case they laid out that day is as simple as it is compelling:

 

Spoiler

-Campaign officials and lawyers eagerly testified that they had told Trump they didn’t believe the claims of fraud

-The campaign team then continued to blast out hundreds of emails raising money off claims that officials, by their own admission, knew to be false

-On top of that, many of those emails told supporters that their money would go to a legal fund that didn’t exist.

Former U.S. attorney Barb McQuade, who teaches at the University of Michigan School of Law, called wire fraud prosecutions “bread and butter cases for federal prosecutors.”

“If it can be shown that Trump or others sent an email asking for money for one purpose, and then used it for another, that could constitute fraud, regardless of whether it can be proved that they knew the election had not been stolen,” she said.

Natalie Adams, a partner at Bradley LLP who prosecuted wire fraud cases as an assistant U.S. attorney for the Middle District of Florida, told The Daily Beast that “the committee’s definitely got something.”

“You don’t get to say things you know to be false,” Adams said, and the testimony of campaign officials copping to their true beliefs could trip the federal wire fraud statute.

“It’s not whether you know something absolutely for sure,” she explained. “It’s if it’s ‘reasonably foreseeable’ to you that people will believe promises and statements that you either know aren’t true, or are reckless or deceptive, which you are trying to use to get something of value.”

As far as what these top campaign officials knew at the time, they were not only quick to say they didn’t believe the claims of fraud, but told Trump repeatedly he had lost fair and square—while the campaign was sending the emails otherwise.

In one video, former top Trump adviser Jason Miller recalled that, not long after the election, the campaign’s head of data told Trump “in pretty blunt terms that he was going to lose.”

The campaign’s former general counsel, Matt Morgan, recalled that a group of advisers delivered the same message in the White House. “I think everyone’s assessment in the room, at least amongst the staff . . . was that [the alleged fraud] was not sufficient to be outcome-determinative,” Morgan said.

Another campaign lawyer, Alex Cannon—whom the campaign had specifically tasked with assessing election fraud—testified that he told Trump White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows in mid-to-late November that the campaign hadn’t found “anything sufficient to change the results in any of the key states.” Cannon also recounted telling another Trump aide, Peter Navarro, that the “election was secure,” citing a Homeland Security assessment Cannon had read.

The panel played clips of Stepien, the former campaign manager, describing his efforts to get Trump to see the writing on the wall.

“What was happening was not necessarily honest nor professional, and that sort of led to me stepping away” from the campaign, he said.

The committee also presented recorded testimony from the campaign’s then head of digital strategy, Gary Coby, admitting that the “Official Election Defense Fund” at the center of dozens of fundraising emails was a “marketing trick” and did not, in fact, exist.

Yet in this same period, the Trump campaign continued to barrage small-dollar donors with fundraising emails. They sent as many as 25 a day, most of them perpetuating the Big Lie.

For instance, on Nov. 7, the same day Stepien offered his “bleak” outlook, the campaign bombed supporters with 23 fundraising emails—from Trump, three of his adult children, the chair of the RNC, Vice President Mike Pence, and a number of vague “funds” that don’t appear associated with any real entity.

The emails claimed the campaign was “counting on members to help [Trump] fight back and secure FOUR MORE YEARS,” and that Democrats were “trying to mess with the results” and “rip a TRUMP-PENCE VICTORY away from you.” They all asked for money.

(A researcher archived these solicitations in real time and has made them available in an open document.)

In a Nov. 10 fundraising email, Trump claimed that—contrary to Stepien’s testimony—his early lead on election night had disappeared “miraculously.” A missive the next day bemoaned “voter fraud” and “interference” from “Big Media and Big Tech,” followed by a money request under the subject, “Proof of election fraud.”

On Nov. 13, Team Trump scaremongered a laundry list of (at best unsubstantiated, and at worst disproven) fraud allegations in Antrim County, Michigan. A week later it was “illegal activity in Wisconsin.”

The deception wasn’t just in the body of the emails, either. There were incorrect subject lines and eye-catching headers. Fourteen included the phrase “voter fraud.” Another 14 undermined confidence in ballots—“Mail-in ballot HOAX!” (Nov. 10) and “221,000 ballots were COMPROMISED” (Dec. 2)—with five targeting “illegal ballots” specifically. A dozen headers and subject lines played on defending “election integrity,” and 29 called on donors to “defend the election.”

This continued for weeks. The campaign even begged for alms on the morning of Jan. 6, citing “voting irregularities and potential fraud.”

But while the mendacity of those emails is clear, the blame is still somewhat foggy. Former U.S. attorney Joyce Vance said the committee is “telling us the story of what happened,” without the constraints that limit prosecutors.

“The biggest question I see with a wire fraud case, based on publicly available information, is, who are the defendants?” Vance wondered. Justice Department prosecutors would need to know who exactly designed, approved, and disseminated the solicitations before they consider whether the scheme constitutes wire fraud—“although it looks like one!”

The Jan. 6 committee has taken steps to figure that out. In February, the panel subpoenaed the RNC’s digital marketing vendor, Salesforce, for reams of internal data. The order would net information about email authors, project managers, and analytics such as open rates and targeting, all of which would help flesh out the scheme. The RNC is still fighting the subpoena in court.

A Trump representative did not reply to The Daily Beast’s emailed questions. In response to a detailed request for comment, RNC spokesperson Emma Vaughn provided a statement that attacked Democrats but did not address any of the allegations.

“This is nonsense—[House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi’s committee is partisan and illegitimate,” the statement said. “Americans want Congress to focus on the most pressing crises created by Biden and Democrats—record gas prices, the worst inflation in 40 years, empty shelves, and rising crime—not conduct a political circus in prime time.”

The committee, and possibly prosecutors, might start their search with the officials who had authority over email fundraising operations. That would include advisers quoted above—digital lead Gary Coby (his “unquestioned domain”), along with top strategist Jason Miller, and campaign manager Stepien, all of whom exercised direct oversight, according to a former senior campaign official.

Adams, the former AUSA in Florida, said prosecutors could build out a conspiracy to commit wire fraud—and that might reach Trump.

“With conspiracy, you don’t necessarily have to commit an overt act. And jury instructions don’t require proof of a formal agreement, because criminal actors avoid doing that,” Adams pointed out. “But if people work together and profit from it, it’s helpful to show who had the access and opportunity to review those communications, and who would be likely to know by virtue of their job what is ‘reasonably foreseeable’ to occur, who are charged with vetting the truth of statements, and so on.”

With Trump specifically, she said, it seems he was in a position where it would be “foreseeable that people around you will carry out your instructions and carry out your intent.” She also noted that as a fact-checker for a former president, she “triple-checked” every claim that went out.

The emails didn’t just have Trump’s signature line. They also came from his campaign team, other officials, and members of his family (though not Jared Kushner or Ivanka Trump).

Of course, that doesn’t necessarily mean those people actually wrote the letters, or even read them—though if they had not, that might also raise fraud concerns.

Several fundraising asks came from Donald Trump Jr., one of which said Democrats “lie and cheat,” and that “this fight is worth having.” Eric Trump once asked supporters to hand over cash to “help expose the fraud,” as did his wife, Lara.

Other public figures passed the fraud hat, too, including former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and Rudy Giuliani. Multiple emails came from then-Vice President Pence, one of them promising “we’ll uncover all Election fraud.” Some of the recipients of that email would later attend the Jan. 6 riot that targeted Pence and members of Congress for violence.

A Nov. 7 email attributed to RNC chair Ronna Romney McDaniel told donors that Trump had “activated the Official Election Defense Fund”—which, again, did not exist—adding that she was “confident that President Trump is going to win.”

Aside from Trump himself, “Team Trump 2020” made some of the most explicit allegations of fraud. “We are going to prove that President Trump won by a landslide and we are going to reclaim the United States of America for people who voted for freedom,” read a Nov. 21 request.

Two weeks later, Team Trump 2020 claimed they were “pacing BEHIND” their goal for the Election Defense Fund. The campaign had raised nearly $500 million, warning potential donors that “if we don’t do something quick, we risk losing America.”

It went on to tell donors their contribution could actually reverse the election results: “If every supporter took action and contributed TODAY, we’d be back on track and would have what it takes to SAVE AMERICA from Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.”

 

 

[henrygandorf 29,194]

34 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Wouldn’t the second best time be 19 years ago? Now is like 20th best.

no. it’s an expression. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,883]

 

[Red Five 40,879]

Sure why not. Trump was openly tampering during his impeachment trials and nothing ever came of it because of course it didn’t.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,883]

 

[Neonmoon 38,130]

29 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Sure why not. Trump was openly tampering during his impeachment trials and nothing ever came of it because of course it didn’t.

This. Stop listing all his fucking crimes and charge him with something. Jesus. You’re not going to shame all these monsters to not vote for him. He committed crimes. Charge him. Prosecute him. 

[The Dog 44,081]

Stop wasting time wondering when something is going to happen - nothing will occur until after the commission has completed its work. 

It's best to look at Trump as a crime boss - they always get busted in the end by some trivial accounting irregularity that they signed off on.

Or maybe misappropriation of campaign funds...

 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Oh