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January 6th Committee Hearings Thread of Dominance

Longhorn_Fan68

By Longhorn_Fan68
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this is really boring and overhyped.  Most of the country doesn't care about topic, I'd say a 3 hour special on inflation would get more eyeballs.  Or a bikini contest. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32079

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41 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

We should consult popehat.

Speaking of which, some good discussion of the criminal legal impact of the hearings from the man himself, here. https://www.serioustrouble.show/p/serious-trouble-episode-1-the-show?s=w#details

He seems less plussed about fitting the pre-riot machinations into the obstruction of an official proceeding statute that with proving Trump's criminal state of mind, because he's fucking insane.

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14650

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11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Speaking of which, some good discussion of the criminal legal impact of the hearings from the man himself, here. https://www.serioustrouble.show/p/serious-trouble-episode-1-the-show?s=w#details

He seems less plussed about fitting the pre-riot machinations into the obstruction of an official proceeding statute that with proving Trump's criminal state of mind, because he's fucking insane.

IF (and it's a huge if) the DOJ ever gets to Trump it will be on the fraudulent fundraising for the nonexistent "Election Defense Fund" rather than any of the treason/sedition/obstruction stuff.  Seems to be a smocking gun on that one.

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Blotto

Blotto 24021

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Posted
17 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

If this shit doesn’t result in legal action against Trump, it’s no more effective than Trump’s effort to overturn the election.  Squawking about how fucked up it all was is fine, but if it doesn’t result in consequences for Trump then it doesn’t mean anything, because it’s not like a single magafuck is going to giveafuck about it.

With the glacial pace of legal prosecution in this country, there wont be any consequences. We're almost two years into this fiasco and no charges have even been filed against the people responsible (I'm not considering the Jenna Ryans of the world as all that important). If the R party holds  the house, the senate, the SC, and likely the white house in 24, they will eventually just extinguish any effort to hold people accountable. Once you lose power, good luck with the Republican party seeing to it that they hold themselves accountable. Winners write the history books. 

And you cant rely on the American people to demand accountability because half of them believe that the election was stolen. Half the country doesn't care that laws were broken, because they believe Trump had to break laws to save the republic. You could certainly argue that a few British laws were broken back in the 1700's, but George Washington and the gang are viewed by all American's today as PATRIOTS. Huh, there's that word, wonder why the GOP keeps hammering on it.  The uneducated fox viewing republican views this entire episode as a patriotic attempt to save America. I almost feel that time would have been better spent focusing on the angle that there was no election fraud.

Trump is somewhat unique in that he derives his power almost entirely from his voting base, completely eschewing the usual GOP power structure. Early in the 2016 GOP nomination cycle, he wasn't really taken seriously by the GOP. And then when he started to pick up steam, a lot of them tried to push back by calling him out as exactly the shit bag that he was. But Trump gave no fucks, and he continued to win over voters. The GOP ultimately determined that it was either going to be Hillary or Trump, and so they all fell in line. Most (not all) of these politicians know what a shitbag he is, and they know he is full of shit. BUT, they also know that there is no republican party without Trump. And that's because the half of the country that votes R, votes Trump. 

I dont know if its possible to prove to the American people that there was no voter fraud, but it you can't accomplish that, you lose any chance of breaking the allure of trump. He is now a mythical figure in the minds of a huge chunk of the GOP voting block, fighting for the future of our country. A public hearing on the voter fraud allegations would be dry as fuck and far fewer than 20 million would tune in. But if you could somehow arrive at an end result that proves there was no voter fraud, you weaken Trump more in my opinion than proving he broke some laws. There are hundreds of GOP candidates campaigning right now primarily on the issue that the 2016 election was stolen. If they win, you think they will stand by and let ANYBODY get thrown in jail for anything related to 1/6? 

 

 

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Goredho

Goredho 17656

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11 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

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He's unfortunately more right than wrong.  64% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.  They are feeling a lot more pain right noe under Biden than they did under Trump, never mind the why.  All those people are worried about putting dinner on the table and making the trailer rent payment, not January 6th and its future portents.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 47205

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7 minutes ago, Blotto said:

And you cant rely on the American people to demand accountability because half of them believe that the election was stolen.

While it's not the main point of your post, I think it's important for those who dispute The Big Lie to deal in facts.  All evidence points to the # of Americans who think the election was stolen at roughly 30% (not half).

Yes, I'm being pedantic, but imprecise language just gives the opposition shit to pick at instead of dealing with the real issues at hand.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32079

Posted
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

IF (and it's a huge if) the DOJ ever gets to Trump it will be on the fraudulent fundraising for the nonexistent "Election Defense Fund" rather than any of the treason/sedition/obstruction stuff.  Seems to be a smocking gun on that one.

Can you elaborate?  The problem with fraud that I always see is "present" intention to defraud, to not use funds raised for "election defense," as opposed to later-developing failure to use funds raised for "election defense."

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Blotto

Blotto 24021

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Posted
20 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

While it's not the main point of your post, I think it's important for those who dispute The Big Lie to deal in facts.  All evidence points to the # of Americans who think the election was stolen at roughly 30% (not half).

Yes, I'm being pedantic, but imprecise language just gives the opposition shit to pick at instead of dealing with the real issues at hand.

Fair enough, that was a lazy summary on my part, although I would probably put the number closer to 40% of the voting electorate and possibly higher overall. But within the republican party voting base, a solid majority believe that to be the case, and as such that will be the narrative. When we have an entire fresh crop of the GOP in congress that campaigned on the 2016 election fraud issue, and vowed to prosecute people who perpetrated that fraud, the end result is the same. They will quash any effort to investigate/judicate the happenings on 1/6.

Perhaps convincing GOP voters that fraud didn't occur is an impossibility, I dont know. Just listening to morons like Lindell, Powell, etc... should be enough, but its not. But as long as that belief is rampant within the GOP, there will be no accountability for what happened. And I think most of the elected politicians know its bullshit, but they also know what their constituents want to hear. Party over country, as per usual. 

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14650

Posted
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8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Can you elaborate?  The problem with fraud that I always see is "present" intention to defraud, to not use funds raised for "election defense," as opposed to later-developing failure to use funds raised for "election defense."

It's just my takeaway from the evidence that has been presented.

Seems pretty clear that Trump knowingly solicited hundreds of millions after the election for a fund he never created and a project never spent the collected money.  Pretty sure paying hundreds of thousands from those receipts on Trump hotels and Kimberly Gilfoyle has nothing to do with legal defense.

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'stache

'stache 22143

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14 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

It's just my takeaway from the evidence that has been presented.

Seems pretty clear that Trump knowingly solicited hundreds of millions after the election for a fund he never created and a project never spent the collected money.  Pretty sure paying hundreds of thousands from those receipts on Trump hotels and Kimberly Gilfoyle has nothing to do with legal defense.

It strikes me as a "Kraken" type argument, no reasonable person would believe that they were paying for anything other than "whatever god-trump wants to spend it on." Same with the border wall gofundme. They know they're being grifted, they don't care, it's like tithing to the church for them, all in support of their higher power.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30592

Posted
Posted

I'm now remembering Cheney's preview of what is to come. She didn't mention manipulation of the defense department. I've posted more than once that I think this is the most promising line of investigation for getting Trump.

Can anyone tell me if they've read or heard about the committee's interest in Defense? I think they interviewed generals and other persons related to that part of the insurrection.

A couple of generals appearing and recounting the events could be persuasive and make for good presentation. 

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TexArcher

TexArcher 39072

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13 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Fuck Him Los Angeles Lakers GIF by Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty

I don't see this as the typical deflect-and-distract bullshit from him/them.

This is dangerous, this otherizing of half the country as "not real Americans" to the half of the country that they control, which happens to be the heavily armed half.

Jordan knows exactly what he's doing and it's disconcerting to say the least.  I don't think they would let another presidential loss go as quietly as the last one.

I don't think it'll matter, unfortunately, because the Dems have shat the bed pretty thoroughly and the Republicans will cheat their asses off in 2024.  But this kind of rhetoric from people like Jordan is a very big deal, imo, and it points nowhere good...

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46168

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11 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I don't see this as the typical deflect-and-distract bullshit from him/them.

This is dangerous, this otherizing of half the country as "not real Americans" to the half of the country that they control, which happens to be the heavily armed half.

Jordan knows exactly what he's doing and it's disconcerting to say the least.  I don't think they would let another presidential loss go as quietly as the last one.

I don't think it'll matter, unfortunately, because the Dems have shat the bed pretty thoroughly and the Republicans will cheat their asses off in 2024.  But this kind of rhetoric from people like Jordan is a very big deal, imo, and it points nowhere good...

There are a lot of R voters that have purposely buried their heads in the sand on all of this. They will be like the woman in Band of Brothers helping bury the bodies. “We didn’t know how bad it would get!  Not our fault!”  Yes, yes it was. Don’t tell me you couldn’t smell the stink. 

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 53505

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59 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

It's just my takeaway from the evidence that has been presented.

Seems pretty clear that Trump knowingly solicited hundreds of millions after the election for a fund he never created and a project never spent the collected money.  Pretty sure paying hundreds of thousands from those receipts on Trump hotels and Kimberly Gilfoyle has nothing to do with legal defense.

Wasn’t it posted way back when those defense fund emails came out that the team had put in the t&c area that the money can/might be used for purposes not directly related to legal defense?

 

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30592

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9 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I don't see this as the typical deflect-and-distract bullshit from him/them.

This is dangerous, this otherizing of half the country as "not real Americans" to the half of the country that they control, which happens to be the heavily armed half.

Jordan knows exactly what he's doing and it's disconcerting to say the least.  I don't think they would let another presidential loss go as quietly as the last one.

I don't think it'll matter, unfortunately, because the Dems have shat the bed pretty thoroughly and the Republicans will cheat their asses off in 2024.  But this kind of rhetoric from people like Jordan is a very big deal, imo, and it points nowhere good...

Very good points. I still don't fault the Dems as much as you. They're sticking to policy and politics while the other side plays a wholly different game.

If the Dems were inclined (they're not by nature) to choose to engage in the civil war tactics of the GQP, then the republic is lost. They are relying on the system and institutions to right the ship in order to preserve the systems and institutions of this republic. I believe that at this moment, it's the best path to follow.

I know some posters here will leap in as fast as they can to say, "Nothing will happen." It's a tedious drill. We always assume that there is a path to victory or success if only we find it. That's colossally simplistic and just wrong. Sometimes no available move is a winning move. You play out your best strategy and hope the other side makes an error.

The House Committee is laying out a devastating case using Republicans of principle to build their story. They present their case in a remarkably digestible way compared to other government presentations where every committee member gets to drag shit out for hours.

They are setting up the Executive branch (Justice) and the states to win battles within the system. Such a result would be a triumph of the system on which the survival of our republic relies. Will they win? I hope so. I won't predict either way. I get little satisfaction in being on the list of cynics who rush to get their doom prediction on the record before anyone else.

I don't have a lot of hope for the republic. But it's not over. 

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Hookah Horns

Hookah Horns 3089

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6 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Wasn’t it posted way back when those defense fund emails came out that the team had put in the t&c area that the money can/might be used for purposes not directly related to legal defense?

 

I believe that was the case. I distinctly recall it being known he was just pocketing the donations. My favorite con of theirs was how you had to uncheck a box to make your payment not regularly repeat forever. 

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horn4life

horn4life 3838

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think it's important to look back at some of the key enablers like Mark Meadows, they were part of the tea party that rose to power on... you guessed it a LIE!  You see Obama was going to have "death panels' where old folks would have their deaths decided by a government bureaucracy!!!  (worked great for old white folks)

Those folks came to power corruptly, no matter how many bible verses they slung around.  Now there is a completely new wave of Republicans trying to ride a lie to power.  Think every fucking non-incumbent running in the Republican Party on any federal ticket is a "Big Lie" supporter.  But it's a lot more fucking dangerous at the State level where immediate power over elections, and a willingness to tell ANY LIE for power make is terrifying to me.

The GOP is actively working to try and limit democracy in the United States.. only to races they win.

Edited by horn4life
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32079

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Fairly obviously, none of this is going to sway any Trumpists.

I think there are some independents and sort of "disengaged" conservative/Republican voters that may be enlightened by it.

Part of the problem is the unjustified "hype" that accompanied the Mueller investigation and the two impeachments.  Certainly in retrospect, but probably prospectively, we, and Dems, and the media, should have known that none of that was going to result in actual consequences for Trump.

This whole thing:

tenor.gif?itemid=10407619&f=1&nofb=1

Was a largely avoidable self-inflicted wound that's no doubt making some otherwise reasonable members of the public (I.e. not Trumpkins) skeptical of this set of hearings and of the Committee generally.

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bluto

bluto 4997

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Posted

Talked to Fox News dad last night, “hell no I’m not watching that nonsense. Where’s the cross examination?! Exactly, that’s why it’s a sham”

this is a UT law grad, there’s no reasoning with them. 
 

“the Dems have to learn to compromise. That’s the only way. This abortion stuff in Tx, 15 weeks is plenty lead time then health of mother and rape”

’It’s actually 6 weeks now and a bounty style system’

”well whatever”

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Foosters

Foosters 18280

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15 minutes ago, bluto said:

Talked to Fox News dad last night, “hell no I’m not watching that nonsense. Where’s the cross examination?! Exactly, that’s why it’s a sham”

this is a UT law grad, there’s no reasoning with them. 
 

“the Dems have to learn to compromise. That’s the only way. This abortion stuff in Tx, 15 weeks is plenty lead time then health of mother and rape”

’It’s actually 6 weeks now and a bounty style system’

”well whatever”

Send him this: https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/eastman-select-committee-order.pdf, and ask him to read pages 1-12. If he can do that and still maintain his position, he's gone.

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Hermanator

Hermanator 7674

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2 hours ago, Goredho said:

He's unfortunately more right than wrong.  64% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.  They are feeling a lot more pain right noe under Biden than they did under Trump, never mind the why.  All those people are worried about putting dinner on the table and making the trailer rent payment, not January 6th and its future portents.

Amazingly almost 40 percent of people making over 250,000/yr are living paycheck to paycheck too.

What a country 

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3362

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Popehat is Ken White, a former federal prosecutor and peripatetic blogger, tweeter, and podcaster..  He has pretty good takes on federal criminal law and such.

He's perhaps most famous for https://www.popehat.com/2016/06/14/lawsplainer-its-not-rico-dammit/

He got on most peoples radar with with the Prenda law porn extortion stuff. 

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Thrawn

Thrawn 540

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Amazingly almost 40 percent of people making over 250,000/yr are living paycheck to paycheck too.

What a country 

That is amazing. I tend to live by the sage wisdom of one Mr. Patrick Ewing. Yes, I make a lot of money, but I also spend a lot of money. Although, not enough to be paycheck to paycheck. What a country indeed.

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bluto

bluto 4997

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Amazingly almost 40 percent of people making over 250,000/yr are living paycheck to paycheck too.

What a country 

That’s kinda a bs number, that’s including funding retirement accts and stuff like that. Far damn cry from a 50k salary parent truly living check to check

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14650

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Wasn’t it posted way back when those defense fund emails came out that the team had put in the t&c area that the money can/might be used for purposes not directly related to legal defense?

 

If it was I don't recall seeing that.

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Captainant

Captainant 28539

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, bluto said:

Far damn cry from a 50k salary parent truly living check to check

I don't think a parent could make it on a $50k salary. In Houston right now the average 2 bed apartment is nearly $2000 a month. That's half the pay gone just on keeping a roof over your head - not to mention keeping the lights on, food on the table, getting to and from work, and covering childcare or school supply costs. 

Shit is expensive, yo.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 34106

Posted
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1 hour ago, bluto said:

Talked to Fox News dad last night, “hell no I’m not watching that nonsense. Where’s the cross examination?! Exactly, that’s why it’s a sham”

this is a UT law grad, there’s no reasoning with them. 
 

“the Dems have to learn to compromise. That’s the only way. This abortion stuff in Tx, 15 weeks is plenty lead time then health of mother and rape”

’It’s actually 6 weeks now and a bounty style system’

”well whatever”

wow, is a UT law degree worth anything anymore? cross examination? it's a fucking hearing, not a trial, dipshit. A trial is what we want, but will probably never get. Maybe?

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13629

Posted
Posted

"Here we go again. Another Witch Hunt, the likes which have never been seen. These hearings, which totally exonorate me, are total bullshit. I demand equal time to refuse to testify under oath. The convictions and guilty pleas from the Russia Russia Russia investigation prove there was no wrong-doing then, and now Democrats are at it again. UNPRESIDENTED!!!"

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-demands-equal-time-accuses-154410882.html

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8266

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, freyguy said:

Whoa now.  Can folks quickly knock out some research on the smoke show next to him?  I'm really trying hard to discern if there's nipplage going on there....

Image

I'd like to nipulate that there is.

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A-Tex Devil

A-Tex Devil 2500

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

"Here we go again. Another Witch Hunt, the likes which have never been seen. These hearings, which totally exonorate me, are total bullshit. I demand equal time to refuse to testify under oath. The convictions and guilty pleas from the Russia Russia Russia investigation prove there was no wrong-doing then, and now Democrats are at it again. UNPRESIDENTED!!!"

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-demands-equal-time-accuses-154410882.html

Confused Always Sunny GIF by It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

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SquishMitten

SquishMitten 10497

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

People violently invade the Capitol and deface it, including shitting on walls = EM9qMpKW4AgSQ24?format=png&name=small

A news channel uses a green screen backdrop with a picture of the rotunda = dcec09163c530dbec2faad19d5118696.jpg

I think you're just making a joke, but in case you're not...he wasn't upset about them using a green screen. He thought they actually set up a news studio in the rotunda.

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 11255

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

"Here we go again. Another Witch Hunt, the likes which have never been seen. These hearings, which totally exonorate me, are total bullshit. I demand equal time to refuse to testify under oath. The convictions and guilty pleas from the Russia Russia Russia investigation prove there was no wrong-doing then, and now Democrats are at it again. UNPRESIDENTED!!!"

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-demands-equal-time-accuses-154410882.html

i said GODDDAMMN someone put this fucking sonofabitch on the stand and give him FREE UNLIMITED TIME TO CROSS HIMSELF

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