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January 6th Committee Hearings Thread of Dominance

Longhorn_Fan68

By Longhorn_Fan68
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SquishMitten

SquishMitten 10497

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5 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

yeah, because he's dumb as fuck and lives in a different reality. we all knew that. this is nothing revelatory

It's actually pretty damn important. If he truly believed the bullshit he was spouting, that would have an affect on the types of crimes he could be found guilty of.

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this is really boring and overhyped.  Most of the country doesn't care about topic, I'd say a 3 hour special on inflation would get more eyeballs.  Or a bikini contest. 

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 23091

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8 minutes ago, The Dog said:

He reveals something I've suspected - Trump truly believed the election was stolen. 

In the final hours before he passed in hospice care, my grandfather truly believed there was a bird flying around in his room.  

 

 

 

 

 

(There was not a bird in the room.)

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46174

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31 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

It's actually pretty damn important. If he truly believed the bullshit he was spouting, that would have an affect on the types of crimes he could be found guilty of.

This.  And he'll skate.  Because the simulation.  God dammit.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 34106

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37 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

It's actually pretty damn important. If he truly believed the bullshit he was spouting, that would have an affect on the types of crimes he could be found guilty of.

can it? I seem to remember plenty of people being convicted of crimes they "didn't know were wrong." no knowing is not an excuse. guess I am naïve, but does not the same principle apply here?

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Longhorn_Fan68

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2 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I still don't get how this documentary footage existed for over a year and a half with no one bothering to tell the committee about it until last week.

Did this producer guy not think it could be sort of important?

likely waiting to see how much money they could get from it before they were forced to hand it over because 'muricuh

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Red Five

Red Five 41756

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2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

can it? I seem to remember plenty of people being convicted of crimes they "didn't know were wrong." no knowing is not an excuse. guess I am naïve, but does not the same principle apply here?

If I am truly convinced that my neighbor is satan, and I stab him in the head, I don't think "but I really did think it" is going to hold up. But then again I'm not President.

Maybe he'd need an insanity plea.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 47232

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4 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

can it? I seem to remember plenty of people being convicted of crimes they "didn't know were wrong." no knowing is not an excuse. guess I am naïve, but does not the same principle apply here?

My background in not being anything like an attorney is well established.  That said, it's my understanding, that at least for a lot of crimes, knowledge of the criminal nature of the act is not required to establish guilt.  Intent to commit the act is.

And now, I will send up the beacon so my statement can be corrected:  @TwiceHorn

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32086

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3 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

can it? I seem to remember plenty of people being convicted of crimes they "didn't know were wrong." no knowing is not an excuse. guess I am naïve, but does not the same principle apply here?

To the letter of the law, no.  But kind of like "means, motive, and opportunity," which are not part of the elements of any crime, prosecutors often think they have to have "criminal intent" to carry their burden of persuasion of the jury.

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TwiceHorn

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1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

My background in not being anything like an attorney is well established.  That said, it's my understanding, that at least for a lot of crimes, knowledge of the criminal nature of the act is not required to establish guilt.  Intent to commit the act is.

And now, I will send up the beacon so my statement can be corrected:  @TwiceHorn

Jimmy's pretty much correct here.  

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The Dog

The Dog 44862

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42 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

It's actually pretty damn important. If he truly believed the bullshit he was spouting, that would have an affect on the types of crimes he could be found guilty of.

That's what I figured. 

12 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

this go here?

 

IMHO this is the kind of thing that will sink Trump ultimately. It will be something financial or mail fraud. 

3 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

can it? I seem to remember plenty of people being convicted of crimes they "didn't know were wrong." no knowing is not an excuse. guess I am naïve, but does not the same principle apply here?

It just means that he wasn't lying about the fraud - he was convinced (by Rudy, Sidney, et al) that the election was stolen from him. It doesn't cover him from other crimes if applicable. 

One of the lawyers on here will have to provide details. 

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Red Five

Red Five 41756

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1 minute ago, The Dog said:

It just means that he wasn't lying about the fraud - he was convinced (by Rudy, Sidney, et al) that the election was stolen from him. It doesn't cover him from other crimes if applicable.

He's full of shit. He's a conman. He was talking about how it was going to be rigged in the year leading up to the election. 

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 34106

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1 minute ago, Red Five said:

He's full of shit. He's a conman. He was talking about how it was going to be rigged in the year leading up to the election. 

yeah, I don't buy this "he genuinely believed there was fraud" bullshit. I think someone is going to try to fall on the sword for TFG, but in the end I think smarter people will see through his bullshit.

there I go being glass-half-full again. I gotta stop doing that.

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The Dog

The Dog 44862

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1 minute ago, Red Five said:

He's full of shit. He's a conman. He was talking about how it was going to be rigged in the year leading up to the election. 

I get it. But we need something on tape where he knows what he is spewing is bullshit. That hasn't materialized yet. We have literally everything else. 

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Macanudo

Macanudo 13328

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16 minutes ago, The Dog said:

I get it. But we need something on tape where he knows what he is spewing is bullshit. That hasn't materialized yet. We have literally everything else. 

Would it matter?   Remember, this is the guy who said he could shoot someone on camera and people would still vote for him.

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TwiceHorn

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19 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

he said pretty much, which still means you're partly wrong.

 

 

lulz

The only way I can really see it coming in somehow is that obstruction of congress/official proceeding requires the obstruction to be done "corruptly."  No one knows exactly what that means, but we have some good ideas.

Still, multiple of the 1/6 defendants have been convicted of that crime when they almost undoubtedly had a sincere belief, fueled by the orangutan, that there was election fraud.

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The Hot Dog Buffet

The Hot Dog Buffet 1314

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23 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

yeah, I don't buy this "he genuinely believed there was fraud" bullshit. I think someone is going to try to fall on the sword for TFG, but in the end I think smarter people will see through his bullshit.

there I go being glass-half-full again. I gotta stop doing that.

You need a jury that will include at least 6 people who actually voted for the man to see through his bullshit.

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Pods

Pods 7637

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2 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Would it matter?   Remember, this is the guy who said he could shoot someone on camera and people would still vote for him.

Trump would fuck it up, but it wouldn't matter. He'd accidentally eject the magazine, while calling it a clip. They'd celebrate him for it and say it's been called a clip all along. He'd fuck up the safety and they'd swear "we've always called it a gun button". 

When he finally handed the gun to his bodyguard to kill the person, they'd celebrate him for that too. 

Fuck cults. 

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jimmyjazz

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2 minutes ago, Pods said:

Trump would fuck it up, but it wouldn't matter. He'd accidentally eject the magazine, while calling it a clip. They'd celebrate him for it and say it's been called a clip all along. He'd fuck up the safety and they'd swear "we've always called it a gun button". 

Never forget:

Total Eclipse: Trump Ignores Pleas of 'Don't Look!' to Stare Directly at the Sun

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Macanudo

Macanudo 13328

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5 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

You need a jury that will include at least 6 people who actually voted for the man to see through his bullshit.

This is something I think a lot of people are overlooking.    If Trump goes to trial for anything, there is no way a MAGAt doesn't get on the jury and and hang it .  

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 22144

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28 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Probably not. DOJ likely investigating/prosecuting the valuation scam for the stock and nothing Jan 6 related 

Devin Nunes probably brought a claim after getting suckered to piss his career away on this scam.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30605

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42 minutes ago, The Dog said:

I get it. But we need something on tape where he knows what he is spewing is bullshit. That hasn't materialized yet. We have literally everything else. 

Doesn't the below count for evidence of same?

Quote

“Just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressmen,” Trump implored top Justice officials in a Dec. 27, 2020, conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.

He said this to men who continually told him there was no corruption. He's not imploring them to prove corruption; he's asking them to "just say the election was corrupt."

What else could he mean by saying leave the rest to himself and GQP traitors in Congress? They'll prove their case? No. He clearly means, as proved by his actions, that he planned to be the corrupt party and overthrow a valid election.

I don't think a fair jury could conclude otherwise, but I'm no lawyer.

 

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NameAlreadyInUse

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1 hour ago, SquishMitten said:

It's actually pretty damn important. If he truly believed the bullshit he was spouting, that would have an affect on the types of crimes he could be found guilty of.

He may have truly believed it.  But I can show evidence that he only ever truly believed it when he won.  He always claimed before and after any election he lost that it was rigged.  He cried wolf every fucking time.  He was disabused of that belief from his most senior advisors who knew it was not true, and if he continued to believe it after that point, that's on him.  His belief, I think, quits being important when you can point to a string of past beliefs that show he's just essentially a sore loser on the one hand, and on the other, when you can show that people in a position to know, told him his belief was incorrect.  That tells me that #1, he doesn't truly believe it and it's all an act, or #2, he's a buffoon who was never suited for the office (or both).  Actually, it's just both.  I don't think there are many people left in the world who don't wear Republican pompoms who would disagree that it's both.

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TwiceHorn

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9 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Doesn't the below count for evidence of same?

He said this to men who continually told him there was no corruption. He's not imploring them to prove corruption; he's asking them to "just say the election was corrupt."

What else could he mean by saying leave the rest to himself and GQP traitors in Congress? They'll prove their case? No. He clearly means, as proved by his actions, that he planned to be the corrupt party and overthrow a valid election.

I don't think a fair jury could conclude otherwise, but I'm no lawyer.

 

There would be one hell of a fight over whether that statement is hearsay and inadmissible.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32086

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Just now, Longhornfan1024 said:

I'm not a litigator and it's been awhile since I took evidence, but wouldn't that be a statement against interest?  

I think one of the most promising ways to admit it is that it demonstrates his state of mind, and thus is not hearsay.  But there are several angles on it.

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14656

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21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

There would be one hell of a fight over whether that statement is hearsay and inadmissible.

Trump's statement?  Pretty sure that's non-hearsay as an admission (IANAcriminal defenseL).

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8887

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2 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

bets on tomorrow's surprise witness....

remember.... IT'S ALWAYS TUESDAY ......

 

3-1 Brooks

3-1 Somebody with written or recorded evidence surrounding fake electors

5-1 Eastman

10-1 Ivanka

10-1 Clark

The documentary film maker has to be the witness 

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