January 6th Committee Hearings Thread of Dominance

[troph 24788]

I may no longer be a practicing Christian but one truth I learned from my time as one has remained core to me:  True repentance should always be met with forgiveness or the wrong doing shifts. I get why he didn’t want to, and most MAGAs are dangerous and lost for good, but this guy seems to have gotten out and has repented. 

[chainsaw 9867]

39 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

He’s not MAGA anymore, he got off social media, he no longer believes the Big Lie, he admitted his mistakes and no longer supports Trump, and he apologized for his actions. And he voluntarily came to speak to the Committee about it. How much more contrition do you want?

Wake me up in several years, if he's paid restitution to the public servants he traumatized

[Fastbreak 3985]

I may no longer be a practicing Christian but one truth I learned from my time as one has remained core to me:  True repentance should always be met with forgiveness or the wrong doing shifts. I get why he didn’t want to, and most MAGAs are dangerous and lost for good, but this guy seems to have gotten out and has repented. 

If he admits to his wrong doings and serves his sentence then he deserves another chance. This is the American way - like it or not. However, if he fucks up again then he deserves to swing.

[tokamak 6427]

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

Repentance never has to met with forgiveness. If you're someone that is wronged, you have the right to hold a grudge or not forgive someone.  There is some false belief that holding onto a grudge somehow hurts yourself but that's only if the grudge is somehow impacting you every day. 

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

18 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Repentance never has to met with forgiveness. If you're someone that is wronged, you have the right to hold a grudge or not forgive someone.  There is some false belief that holding onto a grudge somehow hurts yourself but that's only if the grudge is somehow impacting you every day. 

 

tell me you didn't grow up catholic without telling me you didn't grow up catholic

[henrygandorf 29190]

15 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Repentance never has to met with forgiveness. If you're someone that is wronged, you have the right to hold a grudge or not forgive someone.  There is some false belief that holding onto a grudge somehow hurts yourself but that's only if the grudge is somehow impacting you every day. 

 

right, but i think the point is that if the general message is “we don’t care, you made your choices, fuck you forever” then these people are far less likely to attempt to reform their lives or show contrition at all.

those decisions shouldn’t be based on the reactions of others, but that’s not really the world we live in. it’s not a vacuum. not saying it’s right, but it’s tricky and at some point it’s not black and white. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

10 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

right, but i think the point is that if the general message is “we don’t care, you made your choices, fuck you forever” then these people are far less likely to attempt to reform their lives or show contrition at all.

those decisions shouldn’t be based on the reactions of others, but that’s not really the world we live in. it’s not a vacuum. not saying it’s right, but it’s tricky and at some point it’s not black and white. 

I was comparing societal forgiveness vs individual forgiveness. I'm all for society in forgiving someone. It's why we release people from prison. It doesn't mean the victim ever has to forgive the prisoner.

[Brisketexan 105121]

He’s not MAGA anymore, he got off social media, he no longer believes the Big Lie, he admitted his mistakes and no longer supports Trump, and he apologized for his actions. And he voluntarily came to speak to the Committee about it. How much more contrition do you want?

Wake me up in several years, if he's paid restitution to the public servants he traumatized

right, but i think the point is that if the general message is “we don’t care, you made your choices, fuck you forever” then these people are far less likely to attempt to reform their lives or show contrition at all.
those decisions shouldn’t be based on the reactions of others, but that’s not really the world we live in. it’s not a vacuum. not saying it’s right, but it’s tricky and at some point it’s not black and white. 

1) I don’t believe him.

2) The time for forgiveness is long past.

3) they can all go to hell.

Fuck treating traitors with kindness.

[henrygandorf 29190]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I was comparing societal forgiveness vs individual forgiveness. I'm all for society in forgiving someone. It's why we release people from prison. It doesn't mean the victim ever has to forgive the prisoner.

agree 100%.  i quoted your post but i wasn't necessarily responding solely to your content.

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

1) I don’t believe him.

2) The time for forgiveness is long past.

3) they can al go to hell.

Fuck treating traitors with kindness.

 

 

and like i said earlier, it's slippery.  part of me feels exactly like this and it's tough to differentiate.  i can see that there are two sides of the argument, but it's increasingly difficult to wrap my head around one of them.  but i'm trying, ringo.  i'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.

[GenXer 2875]

17 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

 

Trump didn’t lose; he just ran out of votes.

[GenXer 2875]

17 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

She also reported that Mark Meadows warned her onJanuary 2 that "things might get real, real bad on January 6th". So if the Chief of Staff suspected that 4 days beforehand then I’d have to assume he warned the President too. That could explain why he’s refusing to testify because that could prove damning evidence against Trump

Given that there was knowledge beforehand of real, real bad things, I wonder what exposure this has on trump and his administration when they didn’t proactively call in the national guard.

On a related note, isn’t it time for another bengazi hearing?

[GenXer 2875]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I thought Ayres was pretty sincere.  He wasn't the most articulate or the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I don't think he expressed it well, but I think he felt genuinely misled and contrite..

Ayers showed the world that he doesn’t have two brain cells to rub together with his testimony. He’ll likely never work again.

I wonder if the committee purposefully found a sub-80 IQ prop so the other insurrectionists have this as their benchmark for mental aptitude.

I wish the committee pressed harder and asked Ayers his specific sources that formed his viewpoint. Ayers mentioned twitter and facebook but I want to know if he follows Q, infowars or other conspiracy sources. Put Alex Jones and his ilk on trial too.

As for Ayers contrition, he didn’t satisfy that  threshold. Cheney asked if Ayers still thought the election was stolen. Ayers response: “not so much now.”  Not so much? How about “hell no.” You watched any of the other hearings, you idiot?

[RomaVicta 29907]

51 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

agree 100%.  i quoted your post but i wasn't necessarily responding solely to your content.

and like i said earlier, it's slippery.  part of me feels exactly like this and it's tough to differentiate.  i can see that there are two sides of the argument, but it's increasingly difficult to wrap my head around one of them.  but i'm trying, ringo.  i'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.

henry has pretty much covered my position. I think it was remarkable that the fourth cop processed his notions of disincentivizing others who want to change in such short order. Admirable.

I think this guy was probably charged with the right thing. I honestly don't know how to weigh someone's presence with a mob if they don't harm anyone directly. Certainly, just the number of invaders made the defense of the Capitol more difficult and terrifying. 

I'm also reminded of the determined defense thrown up by the police there. The minutes must have seemed like hours. It was all made worse by thinking help was immediately on the way. I think of this poem from Bataan.

We’re the battling bastards of Bataan;
No mama, no papa, no Uncle Sam.
No aunts, no uncles, no cousins, no nieces,
No pills, no planes, no artillery pieces
And nobody gives a damn
 

It's always stuck in my mind as one of the most apt uses of the Limerick I've read. You can almost hear the soldier's grim, determined, resigned voice.

[The Dog 44042]

 

[TexasEd 8066]

40 minutes ago, GenXer said:

Given that there was knowledge beforehand of real, real bad things, I wonder what exposure this has on trump and his administration when they didn’t proactively call in the national guard.

On a related note, isn’t it time for another bengazi hearing?

Trump and his team proactively planned for it to get that bad.  They wanted the riot inside the Capitol.  They wanted Mike Pence whisked away to Andrews AFB. They wanted Congress shutdown and for violence to fall on their political enemies. Trump wanted it to be "wild". He wanted the militias to occupy the Capitol for days, and they planned for it.

All of this to stop the certification of the electoral votes that had already been cast.  It was "Stop counting votes" but with pitchforks and a mob because his legal challenges were thrown aside 1-60.

Not proactively calling the Nat'l Guard was part of the plan because it would have prevented the rest of the plan from going through. So the real question is not should he be accountable for not stopping it, but will he be held accountable for planning it and setting it in motion.

[GenXer 2875]

5 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Certainly, just the number of invaders made the defense of the Capitol more difficult and terrifying. 

I think this is an important point wrt to forgiveness of Ayers. There were a significant number of proud boys and oath keepers intent on violence and forcing their way into the capitol. The capitol police had a better shot at containing them IF there wasn’t an army of Ayers bumbling alongside them and getting swept up in the fervor and momentum of the moment. 

I’m team brisket on this.

I’m also cynical that there wasn’t a carrot in his plea deal to give his testimony.

[GenXer 2875]

4 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

Not proactively calling the Nat'l Guard was part of the plan because it would have prevented the rest of the plan from going through.

Oh, I get this. It’s just that the trump crime syndicate can’t claim ignorance (laughable because they still will) about the potential dangers to people and property.

[TexasEd 8066]

1 minute ago, GenXer said:

Oh, I get this. It’s just that the trump crime syndicate can’t claim ignorance (laughable because they still will) about the potential dangers to people and property.

It was a peaceful protest.

They were tourists taking selfies.

It was Antifa in disguise to make MAGA look bad.

[Hagbard Celine 10859]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Repentance never has to met with forgiveness. If you're someone that is wronged, you have the right to hold a grudge or not forgive someone.  There is some false belief that holding onto a grudge somehow hurts yourself but that's only if the grudge is somehow impacting you every day.

We're in to buddhism vs. shinto....

 

less magats, moar december 21st meeting traitors indictments

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

11 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

Trump and his team proactively planned for it to get that bad.  They wanted the riot inside the Capitol.  They wanted Mike Pence whisked away to Andrews AFB. They wanted Congress shutdown and for violence to fall on their political enemies. Trump wanted it to be "wild". He wanted the militias to occupy the Capitol for days, and they planned for it.

All of this to stop the certification of the electoral votes that had already been cast.  It was "Stop counting votes" but with pitchforks and a mob because his legal challenges were thrown aside 1-60.

Not proactively calling the Nat'l Guard was part of the plan because it would have prevented the rest of the plan from going through. So the real question is not should he be accountable for not stopping it, but will he be held accountable for planning it and setting it in motion.

Yep.  I'm sure that the Trump side felt that if they could delay or stop Congress counting and accepting the electoral count, it would throw chaos into the process and could somehow keep Trump in power. After all, the main result that Team Trump wanted was to throw the election to the House and/or state houses. They were fairly confident and probably correct that some of the state houses would not follow the will of their citizens.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20397]

18 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

 

Sorry ... I am just catching up.

HOLY FUCKING SHITBALLS!

[SquishMitten 10404]

5 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

He’s not MAGA anymore, he got off social media, he no longer believes the Big Lie, he admitted his mistakes and no longer supports Trump, and he apologized for his actions. And he voluntarily came to speak to the Committee about it. How much more contrition do you want?

Wouldn't be so sure on that point. He said something like "I don't believe it as much now." He also said that had he known everyone around Trump thought it was bullshit "may" have resulted in him not going to DC.

[GenXer 2875]

44 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

It’s been a million years ago but trump’s attorney, Cohen’s office was raided back when the Mueller report was going to save us all.

Good to know that Angry Staffer still thinks raiding attorneys’ offices results in an indictment. I’m skeptical.

[Sbbruin 21850]

OH SNAP.  Committee has indications of attempted witness tampering by Trump.

So this is when the other shoe finally drops and DJT is held accountable? Got it.

[jimmyjazz 45915]

8 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

So this is when the other shoe finally drops and DJT is held accountable? Got it.

Hey, I didn't say THAT.  I just like seeing Liz go in no lube.  The more Trump gets agitated, the more entertaining the tweets.

[Foosters 17856]

3 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

tell me you didn't grow up catholic without telling me you didn't grow up catholic

I made it through my childhood without being raped?

[Burt 4080]

36 minutes ago, Foosters said:

I made it through my childhood without being raped?

Sounds like you weren't Baptist either.

[hpslugga 4058]

1 hour ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Sorry ... I am just catching up.

HOLY FUCKING SHITBALLS!

I mean is it any different than what Maher predicted?

And it’s what we’ve known about him. Remember this from 2016?

All of this was perfectly predictable going back a long time. 

[immamac 42845]

1 hour ago, GenXer said:

It’s been a million years ago but trump’s attorney, Cohen’s office was raided back when the Mueller report was going to save us all.

Good to know that Angry Staffer still thinks raiding attorneys’ offices results in an indictment. I’m skeptical.

Cohen was not just indicted but found guilty. The fuck are you talking about? 

[Biff Tannen 45679]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

After all, the main result that Team Trump wanted was to throw the election to the House and/or state houses. They were fairly confident and probably correct that some of the state houses would not follow the will of their citizens.

Which is EXACTLY what the plan is for 2024.

[GenXer 2875]

15 minutes ago, immamac said:

Cohen was not just indicted but found guilty. The fuck are you talking about? 

the tweet I quoted said:

Those raids tell me they’ve flipped all (or at least most of) the smaller fish they needed to, and they pretty clearly show that Trump is a target. You don’t just raid lawyers for no reason.
 

“They” being the attorneys. The tweet says that the raids of the attorneys’ office show that trump is a target.

The raids of Cohen’s office were front page news and discussed extensively here as part of the effort to link trump with Russian interference with the election. Sure, Cohen was found guilty. But, Barr did fuck all with Trump’s involvement in it.

if the pattern holds true again, the attorneys get indicted but nothing happens with trump. Who gives a shit about the minions.

 

[immamac 42845]

1 minute ago, GenXer said:

the tweet I quoted said:

Those raids tell me they’ve flipped all (or at least most of) the smaller fish they needed to, and they pretty clearly show that Trump is a target. You don’t just raid lawyers for no reason.
 

“They” being the attorneys. The tweet says that the raids of the attorneys’ office show that trump is a target.

The raids of Cohen’s office were front page news and discussed extensively here as part of the effort to link trump with Russian interference with the election. Sure, Cohen was found guilty. But, Barr did fuck all with Trump’s involvement in it.

if the pattern holds true again, the attorneys get indicted but nothing happens with trump. Who gives a shit about the minions.

 

Trump was a sitting president and it was questionable what kind of precedent would be set to actively pursue legal remedy against a currently elected executive who could potentially self pardon. It was a can of worms best left unopened. In hindsight it was still the right decision. 

[GenXer 2875]

31 minutes ago, immamac said:

Trump was a sitting president and it was questionable what kind of precedent would be set to actively pursue legal remedy against a currently elected executive who could potentially self pardon. It was a can of worms best left unopened. In hindsight it was still the right decision. 

I dunno. Doing that puts the president above the law. Let’s say that trump gets elected again in 2024. If laws don’t apply, the worst case scenario is terrifying.

Having said that, your callout on the difference between trump as potus vs now is an important distinction.

Edited July 13, 2022 by GenXer

[Satchel 6938]

If legal remedies can’t be pursued against a current or former president, we should change our laws to reflect that reality.

[DDD Dad 14338]

4 hours ago, GenXer said:

Given that there was knowledge beforehand of real, real bad things, I wonder what exposure this has on trump and his administration when they didn’t proactively call in the national guard.

On a related note, isn’t it time for another bengazi hearing?

Did you hear about Hunter Biden's laptop? 

And Jill Biden called San Antonio Mexican-Americans "breakfast tacos."

[hobbes2702 13033]

2 hours ago, GenXer said:

It’s been a million years ago but trump’s attorney, Cohen’s office was raided back when the Mueller report was going to save us all.

Good to know that Angry Staffer still thinks raiding attorneys’ offices results in an indictment. I’m skeptical.

Michael Cohen went to jail and named Trump as his co-conspirator. Trump doesn’t run the DOJ anymore.

[Pancho 44771]

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

I mean, good, because I want them all in jail, but weird that it would start with him.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5112]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

Cohen was not just indicted but found guilty. The fuck are you talking about? 

Many at the time were hopeful that Cohen going down for things he was doing on Trump's behalf would lead to Trump also getting into trouble over those things.  Cohen was found guilty and served his jail sentence without Trump ever entering a court room.  That's what he was talking about.

[DDD Dad 14338]

24 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

20 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

I mean, good, because I want them all in jail, but weird that it would start with him.

Chief of Staff seems to be a position fraught with risk of jail time.  See H.R. Haldeman.

Also, White House Counsel isn't without risk.  Might explain why Pat Cippolone came clean to the committee.  See John Ehrlichman.

[GenXer 2875]

19 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Michael Cohen went to jail and named Trump as his co-conspirator. Trump doesn’t run the DOJ anymore.

Cohen went to jail for paying women hush money leading up to the 2016 election at the direction of trump. 

The US attorney prosecuted Cohen but not trump. I don’t know if the statute of limitations has expired yet. If not, why not indict trump on this charge?

There’s just a reluctance to indict trump. Perhaps it’s the old adage that when you come for the king, you better not miss. Last I checked though, trump is simply a resident of florida.

I wish I wasn’t so cynical but this new raid on these attorneys unfortunately doesn’t give me hope.

 

[immamac 42845]

37 minutes ago, Satchel said:

If legal remedies can’t be pursued against a current or former president, we should change our laws to reflect that reality.

This is the answer, but don't blame DOJ for not enforcing shit that is very firmly in a grey area. 

[WhatTheBuck 28779]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

1) I don’t believe him.

2) The time for forgiveness is long past.

3) they can all go to hell.

Fuck treating traitors with kindness.

 

 

I found him to be credible. He pleaded guilty to a non-violent misdemeanor. He wasn’t bashing in the heads of cops. According to his testimony, he only went to Washington to attend Trump’s rally. But Trump’s angry rhetoric got him fired up so followed orders and went to the Capitol.

He wasn’t a violent protester but mob mentally took over and he went inside. For that he was rightly charged. He pointed out that when Trump finally tweeted that protesters should leave, he left. He demonstrated Trump’s role in conducting controlling things and how he could’ve put a stop to it much earlier. Although many of the violent protesters weren’t as quick to leave. 

[HenryJames 66048]

 

[Sawbonz 27548]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

[TwiceHorn 31457]

I sense that Meadows is a complete twat and faced with prison time will sing like a canary.

[GenXer 2875]

2 hours ago, Satchel said:

If legal remedies can’t be pursued against a current or former president, we should change our laws to reflect that reality.

The word “former” really concerns me.

If these are the rules we’re playing by, congress has a lot of work to do between now and the midterms.

My confidence that a republican led house would pass laws that ostensibly would be used to indict former president trump is low (assuming the dems lose the house in 2022). This also assumes McConnell won’t filibuster it.

Edited July 13, 2022 by GenXer

[Satchel 6938]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

This is the answer, but don't blame DOJ for not enforcing shit that is very firmly in a grey area. 

What’s gray about being a nation of laws and all being equal under them?

[RDCanecutter 26426]

3 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

I mean, good, because I want them all in jail, but weird that it would start with him.

Maybe he's just the piece of shit closest to the shovel.