Holy shit, this story: two young criminals get slap on the wrist (again), despite Dad's pleas for stiffer sentence.

[HRSchenker 2,288]

13 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

As I often do in these types of deals, I disagree with Slorch. 

IMO, the biggest problem we've got in this country is parents that don't give a shit, or aren't there at all. This dad is there, and he cares.  He's just at the end of his rope dealing with  a shithead and another following in his footsteps.   

What's Dad supposed to do?  Beat the fucking older one senseless and end up in jail himself, and for a lot longer than 21 days?

I wish I had the answer but I know that allowing the Cape Coral Police Department to act as a parent isn't it.

[mdmost 43,303]

Shit let's crowdsource this. I'll put in $50 towards buying slorch a ticket to Cape Coral. I guess Tampa would be the closest airport. We can get him down there so he can show this shitty parent a thing about how to be a real parent. 

[UpperWestside 6,216]

13 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

 What's Dad supposed to do?  Beat the fucking older one senseless and end up in jail himself, and for a lot longer than 21 days?

I was going to say something similar to this. If the father beats them then he goes to jail and his two sons possibly wind up in the foster system. That ends up badly as well.

It is clear the two boys have no respect for authority or their father and are going down a path of violence that will end up in a life being in and out of prison. I would need to hear far more details though about the boys and their lives to better understand how they arrived at being who they are thus far.

[Brian Fantana 6,707]

35 minutes ago, slorch said:

Surly- "Too many people are in prisons.  Stop filling them up"

Surly- "We can't control our children, put them in a prison camp."

Which way y'all want it?

 

29 minutes ago, slorch said:

That's not it at all.

Dad needs to get off his ass and do something about it.

Not sure why that seems so fucking impossible.  Even a  worthless, below- average dude like myself can do it.

 

The elder kid sounds like he's got some serious budding narcissism/psychopathy just at first glance. You can't really "good parent" someone out of that kind of mental disorder. The kid probably needs therapy, but since we have to live with the most fucked up health care system of any first world country on the planet, he probably can't afford it and is turning to the state out of desperation.

I don't disagree with you that the parents responsibility comes first, but your takes sound like someone who has never had a true narcissist/psychopath in their family/lives. I have, and believe me, it's a mental disorder that you can't cure by just being a good parent. 

[Dahobbs 17,808]

45 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

 

The elder kid sounds like he's got some serious budding narcissism/psychopathy just at first glance. You can't really "good parent" someone out of that kind of mental disorder. The kid probably needs therapy, but since we have to live with the most fucked up health care system of any first world country on the planet, he probably can't afford it and is turning to the state out of desperation.

I don't disagree with you that the parents responsibility comes first, but your takes sound like someone who has never had a true narcissist/psychopath in their family/lives. I have, and believe me, it's a mental disorder that you can't cure by just being a good parent. 

Yeah, I think this is correct. We don't know enough to know whether or not the father had earlier opportunities to correct bad behavior. But, given the information available, it seems at least the oldest needs the type of help pretty much any parent, including and perhaps especially Slorch, is going to be I'll equipped to provide. 

[Dahobbs 17,808]

12 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, I think this is correct. We don't know enough to know whether or not the father had earlier opportunities to correct bad behavior. But, given the information available, it seems at least the oldest needs the type of help pretty much any parent, including and perhaps especially Slorch, is going to be I'll equipped to provide. 

For further context, what I mean by this is that a person that believes failings represents a lack of personal responsibility would be unable to cope with a situation not under their control. You need to be able to recognize when you need assistance. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Dahobbs

[TwiceHorn 31,684]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

The kid probably needs therapy, but since we have to live with the most fucked up health care system of any first world country on the planet, he probably can't afford it and is turning to the state out of desperation.

Not defending our healthcare system, but from what I understand from many foreign friends, access to mental health care is a worldwide problem, even with various forms of universal health care.

[Gil Bang 26,099]

3 hours ago, slorch said:

Surly- "Too many people are in prisons.  Stop filling them up"

Surly- "We can't control our children, put them in a prison camp."

Which way y'all want it?

Here's how I want it:  find somebody that's in prison for a small amount of weed, turn him loose, and let the gun thief take his spot. 

[Longhornstampede 3,192]

Step 1. Call cops to the house

Step 2. Wait for cops to show up

Step 3. Fire 2 shots from gun as cops approach the house

Step 4. Quickly put gun in 14 year old shit head's hand and shove him through the front door

Step 5. Profit...

 

I keed, I keed.... Maybe

[ztejas 43,744]

58 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Here's how I want it:  find somebody that's in prison for a small amount of weed, turn him loose, and let the gun thief take his spot. 

Exactly. Most people in prison weren't robbing gun stores at 14. Find me one country in the world where that isn't a major criminal offense that gets you locked up. And there's a reason why that is the minimum age you can try individuals as adults in many states (including FL). 14 year olds are plenty capable of some fucked up, detriment-to-society shit (obviously).

Of course *optimally* I'd like this kid to get help and turn his life around but whether he'd be responsive to treatment or an alternative schooling system seems like a crap shoot. He's probably find his antics less funny if he got some serious theft and gun charges brought against him. 

[burntorangebongos 10,787]

This is one of those times where I think this dad ought to do a gofundme to send these kids to military school. They know where to start and can maybe provide the structure and discipline needed and I think the whole town would pitch in just to get rid of these kids from their midst. I know I would. The older one might be a psychopath so he might get booted out but the younger one might have a chance to get on the right path. 

This dad is a beta raising an out-of-control alpha. He is in over his head with someone with deep issues. At least he cares enough to stay and is saying he needs help. I hope he gets it. 

 

[Samson's Wig 3,195]

At 14, and even the younger one at 11, the time for parenting has already passed.   Ethics are already baked in at that point and parents can do little more than minor course correction and offer guidance when it's sought.  If your kids are acting like these two at this age, there just isn't a whole lot a parent can do about it.  While I agree with Slorch that the dad here is likely culpable to some degree (we don't know enough to say for sure), his hot take that dad is the only one who can somehow fix a 14 year criminal is laughable and says more about Slorch's lack of ever having to deal with a kid like that than it does the father in the story.  Disciplining kids who get slightly off the rails is completely different than dealing with a complete delinquent, and yes sometimes those kids grow up in homes with perfectly good parents.

I have a cousin who grew up with all the same opportunities, exposure to religion, ethics, work ethic, etc. as I and my other cousins did.  We were all relatively poor but all had solid families and experiences that for all but one of us led to successful and productive adult lives.  That one cousin though, has spent almost his entire adult life in prison.  He had parents every bit as present and on task as the rest of us.  But we all knew he was headed for a bad life from the time he was very young.  Because some people are just born broken.  Whether that's mental health or something else I don't know, but I know his parents couldn't have changed one bit of the trajectory of his life.  He had something wrong with him from birth.  We were afraid of him as kids. There was no stopping it other than exactly what has happened - throwing his ass in prison for the last thirty years.

[gmr548 16,636]

Oh, Florida.

[Paco 1,934]

21 hours ago, slorch said:

 

21 hours ago, slorch said:

 

You're judgy as fuck 

Oh boy.

[SHOOTER12 8,852]

23 hours ago, futureman said:

can’t the dad send the kid to military school?  I know it isn’t free.  maybe someone who reads the story will become a benefactor. 

Dad needs to tell the younger son to watch and pay attention while he shoots the older son...j/k of course. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,238]

I tell this to a couple people in my life (that are fellow believers- so I’m not being preachy) and have talked to me about issues with their kids going bad and the grief and pain and introspection that has caused them as parents:

If your Heavenly Father, who is perfect, omnipotent and loved perfectly can’t/won’t create in you a person that doesn’t screw up and does wrong all the time, how can you, as a mortal who makes mistakes all day everyday, hold yourself to a standard with your children that you wouldn’t even hold your creator to?

I’m not saying these two were perfect parents but they loved their kids and tried their damndest and it just didn’t work out. Could they have done some stuff differently?  Sure. But is it their fault their kids were messed up when other people, who put in less time and effort and care ended up with better results?  Nah, sometimes shit just happens and some kids are broken. If you believe in God your kid comes with an instruction manual, be it the Bible or the Torah or the Quoran or whatever your guide book is, but even if you do everything you are supposed to Do there’s no way to insure success. It’s all probabilistic. Do this and it’s more likely than not it will work out. 

I have 2 ADHD kids (one of them diagnosed high functioning autistic- though we don’t truly believe that diagnosis) and I can tell you I don’t understand how their brains work. No impulse control. Short temper. We try everything we can think of. Medicate them as told by their doctor. Reason with then. Discipline them. Read books. Do those exercises with them. It’s exhausting. And at the end of the day I have no idea how much any of that shit helps. And ADHD/high functioning Autism (if it’s that) is nothing compared to an ASPD like psychopathy or some such. 

Shits hard man- I don’t know that you can blame that dad. This shit isn’t science and sometimes you can put good in and get bad out. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Wulaw Horn

[Sawbonz 27,779]

4 hours ago, Samson's Wig said:

At 14, and even the younger one at 11, the time for parenting has already passed.   Ethics are already baked in at that point and parents can do little more than minor course correction and offer guidance when it's sought.  If your kids are acting like these two at this age, there just isn't a whole lot a parent can do about it.  While I agree with Slorch that the dad here is likely culpable to some degree (we don't know enough to say for sure), his hot take that dad is the only one who can somehow fix a 14 year criminal is laughable and says more about Slorch's lack of ever having to deal with a kid like that than it does the father in the story.  Disciplining kids who get slightly off the rails is completely different than dealing with a complete delinquent, and yes sometimes those kids grow up in homes with perfectly good parents.

I have a cousin who grew up with all the same opportunities, exposure to religion, ethics, work ethic, etc. as I and my other cousins did.  We were all relatively poor but all had solid families and experiences that for all but one of us led to successful and productive adult lives.  That one cousin though, has spent almost his entire adult life in prison.  He had parents every bit as present and on task as the rest of us.  But we all knew he was headed for a bad life from the time he was very young.  Because some people are just born broken.  Whether that's mental health or something else I don't know, but I know his parents couldn't have changed one bit of the trajectory of his life.  He had something wrong with him from birth.  We were afraid of him as kids. There was no stopping it other than exactly what has happened - throwing his ass in prison for the last thirty years.

[Harrison Bergeron 1,798]

"H was just defending the neighborhood against CP, whose troops managed to breach the gates. B died protecting my WWII service medals, but H made sure B's widow had enough family sausage to satisfy her fix. I invented the sun."

[aggie08 21,583]

15 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Slorch was born for this thread.

I don't know why this made my laugh so hard.

[52-80 19,277]

12 hours ago, Samson's Wig said:

I have a cousin who grew up with all the same opportunities, exposure to religion, ethics, work ethic, etc. as I and my other cousins did.  We were all relatively poor but all had solid families and experiences that for all but one of us led to successful and productive adult lives.  That one cousin though, has spent almost his entire adult life in prison.  He had parents every bit as present and on task as the rest of us.  But we all knew he was headed for a bad life from the time he was very young.  Because some people are just born broken.  Whether that's mental health or something else I don't know, but I know his parents couldn't have changed one bit of the trajectory of his life.  He had something wrong with him from birth.  We were afraid of him as kids. There was no stopping it other than exactly what has happened - throwing his ass in prison for the last thirty years.

It could be related to prenatal development.  Maybe his mom was arguing about politics on internet forums when she was carrying him.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Here's how I want it:  find somebody that's in prison for a small amount of weed, turn him loose, and let the gun thief take his spot. 

We don't disagree.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, mdmost said:

Shit let's crowdsource this. I'll put in $50 towards buying slorch a ticket to Cape Coral. I guess Tampa would be the closest airport. We can get him down there so he can show this shitty parent a thing about how to be a real parent. 

You can afford time travel?  Point #1 stated upthread:  Start before they are 14.

 

So now that all of the excuse makers have rolled out their excuses and cast aspersions at someone who isn't a fucked up dad; I still want to know why longer jailtime is the answer for a kid who's obviously trying his ass off to do things right, but just has some mental/ developmental problems. The judge and the cops might be fucked up and now they have had multiple, and by multiple I mean more than a dozen, opportunities to intervene but have said, "Nah, Dad, you can handle it."

Big meanies!!!

Edited June 13, 2022 by slorch

[DigglerontheHoof 21,283]

A two page argument when no one of this thread knows enough about the situation to render a well-informed opinion.  Surly on, Surly. 

[BabaYaga 15,374]

1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

A two page argument when no one of this thread knows enough about the situation to render a well-informed opinion.  Surly on, Surly. 

lol, yep.  This guy raising two pre-convict sons probably isn't a Rhodes scholar himself.  Raising kids is fucking hard.  Hard because you have to have your own shit dialed in WAY upstream of having kids.  He married?  Divorced?  Raising these kids by himself?  Who fucking knows, but in the wake of a GD school shooting by teens, you'd think a couple of teens stealing dozens of guns would raise the fucking bar a little on this type of crime?

[mdmost 43,303]

You know, I apologize to those who read this thread but it helped cement something I've should've done a while back. Life's too short to not have slorch on ignore. Fixing that today.

[irishtexan 11,530]

49 minutes ago, mdmost said:

You know, I apologize to those who read this thread but it helped cement something I've should've done a while back. Life's too short to not have slorch on ignore. Fixing that today.

But how are you going to know how to raise your kids if you're ignoring America's Number One Dad?

[burntorangebongos 10,787]

4 hours ago, slorch said:

You can afford time travel?  Point #1 stated upthread:  Start before they are 14.

 

So now that all of the excuse makers have rolled out their excuses and cast aspersions at someone who isn't a fucked up dad; I still want to know why longer jailtime is the answer for a kid who's obviously trying his ass off to do things right, but just has some mental/ developmental problems. The judge and the cops might be fucked up and now they have had multiple, and by multiple I mean more than a dozen, opportunities to intervene but have said, "Nah, Dad, you can handle it."

Big meanies!!!

 

[Hermanator 7,286]

15 hours ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Dad needs to tell the younger son to watch and pay attention while he shoots the older son...

Username checks out

[Agent 13 315]

16 hours ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Dad needs to tell the younger son to watch and pay attention while he shoots the older son...j/k of course.