Active shooter thread

[jimmyjazz 46252]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

We have rot at our core.

Not really.  We have rot on the right side of our core.

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Did you really just use a Manson analogy here?

He’s a dipshit troll so yes, he did.

[bad_teammate 13225]

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I used to accuse Anastasis of hating America but after further evaluation that analysis is wrong.  

Anastasis is an anti-Nationalist.  

Nationalists like to use our nation’s previous accomplishments as a sense of pride like, “Hey remember when we kicked Hitler’s ass and saved Europe?”  As if we personally had anything to do with that or as if we’re still the same country as then.  

Anastasis plays this game in reverse by dwelling on our historic flaws and fuck ups.  “Remember when the CIA did all that terrible shit, and how evil the Bush Administration was.  Good god we are terrible.”   

Edited August 5, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Anastasis 23489]

The foundations of our national ethos go much deeper than the Bush Administration or the creation of the CIA.

Our country was founded on racism and genocide. 

You guys are under the false impression that 10 years in the early 20th century changed that. 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Anastasis

[JimmyJames 12271]

Just now, Anastasis said:

The foundations of our national ethos go much deeper than the Bush Administration or the creation of the CIA.

Our country was founded on racism and genocide. 

You guys are under the false impression that 0 years in the early 20th century changed that. 

 

And? 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Our ancestors killed all the injuns so we should let the republicans fuck a bunch of 15 year olds, make a bunch of Russian money funneled through the NRA while a bunch of Americans get the injun treatment, destroy democracy and then blame ourselves. 

Is that about it or am I missing something?

[Anastasis 23489]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

Is that about it or am I missing something?

Yes.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[NowThis 931]

nsiap=  this is the big ass AR15 used in Dayton.  I had no idea these drum cartridges existed, each holds 100 rounds.  No wonder he was able to unload dozens in 30 seconds.   And MAJOR PROPS to the Dayton cops for responding in less than a minute, damn impressive considering he had on armor and that weapon. Must've been a headshot.

Edited August 5, 2019 by NowThis

[Guest Lobo]

Made right near where McConnell grew up.  Nice. 

Serious question, how the hell do you lug that thing around while firing?  

Edited August 5, 2019 by Lobo

[cabowabo 4514]

27 minutes ago, NowThis said:

nsiap=  this is the big ass AR15 used in Dayton.  I had no idea these drum cartridges existed, each holds 100 rounds.  No wonder he was able to unload dozens in 30 seconds.   And MAJOR PROPS to the Dayton cops for responding in less than a minute, damn impressive considering he had on armor and that weapon. Must've been a headshot.

That’s an AR15 pistol with a Shockwave Blade pistol brace. 

[TexLonghorn 5671]

22 minutes ago, NowThis said:

I had no idea these drum cartridges existed, each holds 100 rounds.

Cue automatic Republican response: "You musta done never gone out rabbit hunting in the dense underbrush of [insert backwoods dumbass podunk location].  You need to have drum cartridges like these'ms or you cain't get feed for your famly and young'ns.  Not that you big city folk know nothing 'bout that.  Don't come to my house when the govmint tries to invade your neighborhood neither - I'd protect my famly and still have 199 more rounds to stop the govmint from comin' in.  Bless our troops.  Blue lives matter."

[ChiTownDoc 21175]

6 hours ago, NowThis said:

i've know him since middle school, he's fun to mess with, really conservative.  So anyway, what's a good answer? Chicago is f'n west beirut in the 80s right? Why doesn't that get attention. 

Not this shit again...

6 hours ago, scottsins said:

 

I mean, first of all, Chicago’s murder rate, per capita, in 2018 ranked 25th.

Also, I don’t believe that the killers in Chicago recently left racist, xenophobic manifestos which mirrored the rhetoric of a significant political faction of the country.

There was a drive by in Cedar Park last night, yet NOTHING on CNN...no shit.

 

Any other dumbass questions, NowThis?

[bad_teammate 13225]

Ban the sale, import, export, manufacture, distribution, gifting, and inheriting of all semi-automatic rifles, all handguns, and all accessories/parts for these weapons (from magazines to holsters). Allow only the sale of bolt/break/pump/lever-action long guns with internal capacities no greater than 5 and overall lengths no shorter than 32". No weapons capable of accepting magazines.

You would not be allowed to take any prohibited weapon out of your home/off your land. Any transportation of the prohibited weapon (for vacation or moving) would have to be registered with your local PD, the PD where you are going, and the ATF if you are crossing state borders. Failure to do so will result in the forfeiture of all prohibited weapons.

No buybacks. If you don't want to deal with your semi-auto rifle or handgun at home anymore, you can take it to the local PD to be destroyed for free.

When you die, all prohibited weapons (semi-auto rifles and handguns) are turned over to the local PD to be destroyed. All non-prohibited weapons can be gifted/inherited.

I might be willing to talk about keeping permanently disabled weapons for inheritance, but not really. It's a gun. If the sum total of your contribution to your forebears after death is your boom stick then you were useless as a father/grandfather and not worth remembering. Or just buy some beautiful clay guns and leave those.

All weapons-related purchases (rounds, guns, parts) tracked in a central database accessible electronically by all levels of law enforcement. Biometric recordings at point of sale tied to serial numbers (which would be required to be stamped on all weapons/parts/accessories/rounds sold).

Possession/manufacture/distribution of ghost guns or ghost gun parts or machines to create ghost guns or ghost gun parts would carry federal time (in a well-kept prison where you have access to education, regular family visits, good food, exercise, and safety from sexual violence).

Remanufacture/rehab of disabled weapons would carry federal time (in a well-kept prison where you have access to education, regular family visits, good food, exercise, and safety from sexual violence).

Patrol officers would follow the same weapons rules (long-guns only) and larger areas would have special-weapons squads carrying ARs. No handguns for basically anyone outside of, perhaps, active-duty military.

Lots of other stuff but I'm tired and want to go to bed.

------------------------

Can people get around this? Of course. The point isn't to achieve 100% perfect compliance, but to dramatically curtail the availability of weapons of mass death. We can't do much about what's already out there, but we can basically stop the growth and perpetuation in its tracks (and put in rules to eliminate current stock over time).

Is this likely to happen? Nope. But it might be, and sooner than you think.

Edited August 5, 2019 by bad_teammate

[Rougarou 594]

I'm 1000% serious when I say, there is a guy that Vic posts on the Facebook thread who is going to shoot up a public area and should be reported.

[Mdhorn 5990]

sorry if already posted:

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20519]

Cloudflare may have decided to quit helping 8chan stop DDOS attacks, but it still takes money from almost 60 other hate groups:

https://gizmodo.com/the-dirty-business-of-hosting-hate-online-1836286885

Also ... a white supremacist conference at a state park in Tennessee seems like a great place for the FBI and other counter terrorism agencies to infiltrate.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[tchookem 3919]

If we want to cut down down on mass public killings, then we are going to have to give up some freedoms.  There is no way around it.  We can restrict access to firearms, allow for more moderation/policing of various chat forums, allow for more effective screening and intervention (with our without their cooperation) with young men before they go on a killing spree, or put limits on what the press can report, or some combination of these things.  The gun laws get a lot of discussion, and if I were representing conservatives at a mock shaggy bevo negotiation, then I would say fine, let’s enact some tighter gun laws around assault rifles and tougher access, etc.  I think this will have some moderate impact on the problem.  But I honestly don’t think it will have as big an impact as many hope it would.  The kid in Santa Fe killed 10 with just a shotgun and a 38.  Virgins Tech kid killed over 30 with just pistols.  Guy in France killed over 80 with a truck.  OKC attack was done without guns as well.  The point I’m making is that it’s just not that hard to kill many unsuspecting people in modern times with the technology we have available.  If a reasonably intelligent adult plans out a mass killing over a year or more, the chances are he is going to kill dozens.  Guns are an easy way to do it, but if that option is off the table, it doesn’t eliminate the fundamental problem.  It’s true it will at least cause one to go through more obstacles and hopefully allow the less bright to fail at execution, so I do think it would have some marginal results.  But most of these lunatics will not be denied on account of not having readily available high capacity rifles.  
My view is that by far the most successful approach would be in early identification and intervention with the type of young men who commit these atrocities, combined with not allowing any mention of the killers names, motives, manifestos being released, etc.  Obviously, this would involve a loss of personal freedoms, allow for profiling, an infringement of freedom of the press, etc.  A lot of the details would need to be worked out and modified over the years.  Frankly, I don’t think any of these things will ever happen in the US, and maybe that is not a bad thing.  My position on most topics is that I would prefer to take the freedoms and the risks that comes with them.   My point is that anything short of this is only going to be marginally effective.  This problem is a mental contagion.  It is out in society and we need to quarantine it.   
 

That's a lot of words to say "Let's do nothing."

[suddenly shaggy 929]

23 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Cloudflare may have decided to quit helping 8chan stop DDOS attacks, but it still takes money from almost 60 other hate groups:

https://gizmodo.com/the-dirty-business-of-hosting-hate-online-1836286885

Also ... a white supremacist conference at a state park in Tennessee seems like a great place for the FBI and other counter terrorism agencies to infiltrate.

Sounds like a great spot for the next asteroid to hit. 

[NowThis 931]

was Dayton like this full auto? 

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

I was on the scene of a double-murder suicide when I was about 20 years old. It occurred in Plymouth, New Hampshire, of all places, on the Daniel Webster Highway. My friend and I were in a vegetarian coffeeshop early on a Friday evening where he was scheduled to play a gig a little later that night, and we heard horrible, horrendous shrieking -- the kind a woman makes when she knows she is about to die -- three or four sharp pops and it was over. (Like the smell of death, once you've heard those shrieks, you cannot forget them.)

So then a guy runs in and tells us we all need to hit the floor because there was somebody killing people right across the street. He was all sweaty, wearing cyclist clothes. And so we did so. This was right after the massacre at the Luby's in Killeen, so that was fresh on our minds. All of us, under tables, as if that would have done any of us any good at all. Literally, cowering.

So they we were, with one massacre on our minds and a fresher, smaller one on our doorstep. Literally directly across the street. My friend later said that he saw a piece of one of the victim's scalps blow off in the wind. (Shooter killed his estranged wife, her therapist, and himself. Didn't make the fucking papers.)

Eventually we could hear sirens in the distance and we crawled out from under the tables and life in America went on. David, my friend, did not play his show that night because he was too shaken up, as I was.

The manager had pressed him to play, reminding him that "the show must go on."

We were about halfway to Maine, and through quarts of Budweiser and a joint, when he shook his head and said "MAC, this is how the Yankees won the Civil War. They just don't care about human life."

And he was not a Confederate sympathizer or anything like that. He was just acknowledging, Texan to Texan, that our government gives not one single shit about us, so long as palms are getting greased in Washington DC.

And we made it to Maine, pulled over on someone else's property in some pinewood forest, and slept on the ground. Sleeping bags on the pine needles. We bought copies of the Boston Globe for the next three days thinking that one of them would contain at least a small story about the little massacre in Plymouth, NH, but none ever did.

None ever did.

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by MaybeACoordinator

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Continuing back to my story about the double-murder suicide in Plymouth NH when I was a very young man, there is another time my life was touched by gun violence.

My son was friends with the victim in this murder and traded this job with him at the same fucking time Peter Mielke was working there. The killer was mentally ill. Harris County knew this. The whole world knew that the killer was mentally ill and yet he was allowed to get a gun and kill Peter Mielke because 'Merica.

It so very easily could have been my son that died there.

For working at a pizza joint in Bellaire.

Regulate ammo. Let's bring an end to this. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

To those who believe that there are simply too many guns out there for there ever to be meaningful gun control, even if we try to limit assault weapons and Saturday night specials, etc.,: consider this: the regulation of ammunition.

There is nothing in the Constitution that says anything about Americans, whether or not they are in a militia, well-regulated or not, being allowed to buy unlimited amounts of ammunition.

Every bullet counts. Every bullet should be counted at point of sale.

Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people. People firing bullets kill people. Regulate the fuck out of bullets.

[Francisco 2.0 32432]

Whew.  Glad they cleared this up.

 

 

 

[DixonHur 11395]

10 hours ago, EMAWesome said:

It was much, much, much, easier to get guns when I was growing up and where I grew up practically every boy over the age of 12 or 13 had at least a .410 or a .20 gauge shotgun and these things never happened.

So, let me get this straight...people are saying there should be a ban on assault style weapons and high capacity mags, and your response is that there were no mass shootings when most people only had access to shotguns? 

I think you're proving the point. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by DixonHur

[Steamboat1874 4087]

9 hours ago, EMAWesome said:

Does anyone have to listen to anything Trump says?  Does anyone have to agree with him?  No, any listener to whatever Trump says can choose to agree with him or choose not to agree with him.   I can't believe I'm pulling this one out of the parents' quotes from my childhood (then again considering the audience maybe acting like I am talking to a five year old could be effective) but if so and so told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?   Donald Trump didn't choose to go to that Wal-Mart and start killing people.  Shit for brains made that choice.  The consequences of that choice are on him.  I'm not responsible for what someone else does after reading one of my posts and no one else is responsible for what I do after reading anybody else's posts.   In 1969 one nutcase decided that the lyrics to Helter Skelter were a code to start a race war.  None of the other millions of people around the world who listened to the White Album made that decision.  The Beatles didn't kill Sharon Tate, the LoBiancas or anyone else those two nights.  Charles Manson and his acid fried followers did.

WTF?

[Aqua Buddha 14624]

34 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Whew.  Glad they cleared this up.

 

 

 

In his manifesto, he basically gave them the roadmap on how to bob and weave.  Looks like they're following it.....

[jimmyjazz 46252]

In all this back and forth over an assault weapons ban and the Constitutionality thereof, let's summarize a couple of key points:

 

1.  the US enforced a Federal assault weapons ban from 1994-2004

2.  Federal courts have upheld on appeal and flat out denied subsequent final appeal over arguments against the Constitutionality of Maryland's current ban on "assault long guns" (AR-15, AK-47, etc.) and high capacity magazines.

 

This is settled law.  Such a ban does not infringe on anyone's 2A rights.  If anyone argues to the contrary, counter with these 2 points, and then watch them twist themselves into some vague "protect my family" corner when in fact the courts have ruled that these are WEAPONS OF WAR with little use for self-defense.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

So a current trumpkin talking point is this young angry white misogynist incel in Dayton Ohio was an Elizabeth Warren supporter?  

I mean, it’s completely ludicrous and absurd but if true I think we can finally put her “electability” question to bed. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Goredho 17424]

9 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Well, I voted against that President, gave less than I spend on weed to his opponents and professed my vehement disdain of him on the intardnet to an audience that by and large agreed with me.

Unfortunately, this has been no more effective than thoughts and prayers.   We need less preaching to the choir and more engagement across ideological and cultural lines.

I’ve been doing that with my extended family (evangelical southern baptists) and they’ve started to become receptive.  They finally realize that Trump’s MO is bad for the country, can’t go on and are resigned to voting for whoever else is an option, preferably in the primary.  They still think things like overturning Roe V Wade and immigration reform are important, but they can no longer support this guy’s methods.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Goredho

[Mojo Hand 4580]

16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So a current trumpkin talking point is this young angry white misogynist incel in Dayton Ohio was an Elizabeth Warren supporter?  

I mean, it’s completely ludicrous and absurd but if true I think we can finally put her “electability” question to bed. 

Huh?  What a moronic take.   Why would her electability be affected if a supporter commits a crime unrelated to anything having to do with her? 

[Anastasis 23489]

I think it's called sarcasm.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Doesn't sound like it to me.   What would be the implied point? 

[horncyclist 1391]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

Huh?  What a moronic take.   Why would her electability be affected if a supporter commits a crime unrelated to anything having to do with her? 

He's saying that if Warren is appealing to people like that, then she can reach a broad electorate. Bit dark imo. Seeing Beto out there speaking truth the last 24 hours makes me want a Warren-Beto ticket again. The perfect moral response to Trump.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Well, I guess that went over my head.  

[Anastasis 23489]

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts/

On social media, the suspect’s biography started to emerge. On his Twitter page, reviewed by Heavy, he described himself as “he/him / anime fan / metalhead / leftist / i’m going to hell and i’m not coming back.” He wrote on Twitter that he would happily vote for Democrat Elizabeth Warren, praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, “I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding.”

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

It was dark sarcasm.  In no way does one maniac’s support for a candidate representative of that candidate’s appeal to a broader electorate

Edited August 5, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[zork 629]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It was dark sarcasm.  In no way does one maniac’s support for a candidate representative of that candidate’s appeal to a broader electorate

unless Trump, right?

[wildcat09 29430]

For those of you who think the problem is that we got rid of prayer in schools:

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, zork said:

unless Trump, right?

Yes. Exactly moron. 

[DixonHur 11395]

11 minutes ago, zork said:

unless Trump, right?

Wake me when they find a manifesto from the Dayton shooter using Elizabeth Warren talking points as reasons why he committed the mass killing.

[jimmyjazz 46252]

3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Wake me when they find a manifesto from the Dayton shooter using Elizabeth Warren talking points as reasons why he committed the mass killing.

Even if he did, it's rather mind-boggling that anyone could look at the "scoreboard" and think "a ha!  Now it's 18-1!  No incitement by Trump!"

[Nivek 16993]

Weird. Seems like decrying race-based violence would be one of the most basic public appearances that you could ever make.

They have to wait to get their marching orders on how they can try to pretend to care, while not upsetting their base. Must present a unified front in the face of this national school prayer issue.

[Anastasis 23489]

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Wake me when they find a manifesto from the Dayton shooter using Elizabeth Warren talking points as reasons why he committed the mass killing.

These manifestos are the tools of trolls.  They are specifically written to blend left and right wing talking points to generate the kind of divisive exchanges occurring on this board and in other places.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

These manifestos are the tools of trolls.  They are specifically written to blend left and right wing talking points to generate the kind of divisive exchanges occurring on this board and in other places.

So no different from Trump’s twitter feed. Got it. 

[jimmyjazz 46252]

Let's keep the facts right in front of our faces:  remember early in Trump's Presidency when he rolled back the Obama-era regulation which made it more difficult for people with severe mental illnesses to purchase a gun? 

Guns for everyone!

[retread 2951]

This administration also pulled back funding for studies of white nationalist violence.

Edited August 5, 2019 by retread

[Chult86 335]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Let's keep the facts right in front of our faces:  remember early in Trump's Presidency when he rolled back the Obama-era regulation which made it more difficult for people with severe mental illnesses to purchase a gun? 

Guns for everyone!

People don't realize how many dominoes have fallen in favor of the 2nd amendment. Throw one marble in the road and no one will notice. Turn over a bucket full of marbles and someone's going to slip and fall.

[bad_teammate 13225]

Which mass shooter manifesto features left-wing ideology to "blend" in?

Far more importantly, which target selections indicate a left-wing agenda?