Active shooter thread

[JimmyJames 12271]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

"I feel sad for you".

Be less intellectually dishonest.  Gotcha.

He feels sad for you. He really does. Just ask him. He’ll tell you so.

[American Swindle 102]

"I feel sad for you".
Be less intellectually dishonest.  Gotcha.

Haha ok, you really got me. Try to address points more rather than the emotional rhetoric surrounding substantive issues within a post.

[DDD Dad 14325]

Haha ok, you really got me. Try to address points more rather than the emotional rhetoric surrounding substantive issues within a post.

[American Swindle 102]

He feels sad for you. He really does. Just ask him. He’ll tell you so.

Holy shit, we got Jimmy “gotcha” James and his bro Jimmy “gotcha” Jazz bro-in’ out and tag teaming me with their witty gotcha styles.

The spectacle of it all!! You guys really got me!!!

/goodfellas laffing .gif

[jimmyjazz 45884]

2 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Haha ok, you really got me. Try to address points more rather than the emotional rhetoric surrounding substantive issues within a post.
 

 

 

Seriously, I don't wander about the internet looking for fights.  I read WaPo, NYT and surly.  That's it.  If there's a battle going on, it's only here where I'm engaged, so I don't really know where you're seeing these libtard points you rail against.

[JimmyJames 12271]

13 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

 

Holy shit, we got Jimmy “gotcha” James and his bro Jimmy “gotcha” Jazz bro-in’ out and tag teaming me with their witty gotcha styles.

The spectacle of it all!! You guys really got me!!!

/goodfellas laffing .gif

 

Sounds like something a soyboy would say.

[American Swindle 102]

Seriously, I don't wander about the internet looking for fights.  I read WaPo, NYT and surly.  That's it.  If there's a battle going on, it's only here where I'm engaged, so I don't really know where you're seeing these libtard points you rail against.

Twitter.

The decentralized (supposedly) platform that gives Independent media a voice outside the mainstream controlled narratives.

There are liberals that actually don’t suffer from TDS on there, can you believe that?

You oughta try it. The WP and NYT are much more intellectually dishonest than what you perceive me to be.

[American Swindle 102]

Sounds like something a soyboy would say.

Pffftttt. Weak ass come back. Address the issues and points or else I’ll just assume you agree with me.

Glad we agree on gun rights!

[American Swindle 102]

Sounds like something a soyboy would say.

 

 

Pffftttt. Again.

[Tom 2959]

2 hours ago, American Swindle said:

I don't think I'll ever be able to understand why many seem to replace any positive religion , with say, the religion of politics or the state.  Boil the issue down a bit more, is it okay for a church to have members that are strapped to defend it?  

Even more disturbing is we live in a nation of pansy ass soy boys that don't understand that the founders of our country thought the second amendment was as important as the 1st amendment. Also, I like how you frame your point around "OK because you might need to kill someone," instead of defending the defenseless or the property and people of the church.  The bottom line is bringing a weapon to worship is totally fine as one might need to protect the church and drastically limit the amount of mass shooter casualties that would have occurred if zero members of the congregation were unarmed. 

Furthermore, the fact is mass shooter casualties drastically reduces when the shooter is met with violent force.   Casualties also reduce the quicker that violent force is executed.  

 

It's almost as if the radical gun control advocates hate that the parishioner successfully disarmed and ended the violence so quickly.  I feel sad for you, I really do. 

 

 

 

 

You can feel free to redirect your sympathy elsewhere.  

I often feel like the negs you receive aren't warranted, but you really are proving me wrong today.

Did you really just accuse any of us of wishing for more innocent people to die from guns?  

My wish would be events like these to never happen in the first place.  Despite the security guard reacting quickly, innocent blood was still shed and innocent life was lost.  Why don't you tell the victim's loved ones what victory they should feel?  Thank God more weren't hurt and thank God for the security guard that stopped it all, but this was still a tragedy despite your tribe spiking the football.

I don't know what the answer is.  I'm a former CHL holder and will eventually inherit a shitload of firearms, but I question the point when this is a uniquely American problem.  What do you think is the answer to all of the lost lives and bloodshed?  What's your solution beyond prayers? 

[American Swindle 102]

37 minutes ago, Tom said:

 

You can feel free to redirect your sympathy elsewhere.  

I often feel like the negs you receive aren't warranted, but you really are proving me wrong today.

Did you really just accuse any of us of wishing for more innocent people to die from guns?  

My wish would be events like these to never happen in the first place.  Despite the security guard reacting quickly, innocent blood was still shed and innocent life was lost.  Why don't you tell the victim's loved ones what victory they should feel?  Thank God more weren't hurt and thank God for the security guard that stopped it all, but this was still a tragedy despite your tribe spiking the football.

I don't know what the answer is.  I'm a former CHL holder and will eventually inherit a shitload of firearms, but I question the point when this is a uniquely American problem.  What do you think is the answer to all of the lost lives and bloodshed?  What's your solution beyond prayers? 

Okay I got you.  

My last two sentences in my response were not directed at the poster but more toward political narratives being pushed over the last 3 years from the TDS-Radical Left-Gun Control-MSM blob that try to compel others to support more government limitations on 2A rights.  That, and the fact he tried to make it as if Christians somehow were bad because they allowed guns into the place where they worship.  It's commonplace and mainstream to criticize Christians and Christianity, but the minute you criticize any other religion, you are woke scolded into oblivion. No offense Surly.

I can't tell the victim's loved ones how they should feel but you and I and everyone else on the Surly know, with out a shred of doubt, that if nobody was armed in that church , that instead of 2 victims loved ones being affected, it would have been way more.  

What tribe am I a part of that spiked the football?  The entire Cloak Room is dominated by mainly one ideology.  When a tragic event happens like this, the solutions go one way only.  Any argument for the 2A is laughed at, especially when you remind those that are for limiting 2A rights that the Founders intended on the populace being armed to be able to fight against a tyrannical government.  I just happened to be a little emotionally charged on this one as it really is an example to my point about meeting mass shooters with violent force to thwart the losses.  

We have to have an honest debate about what the common factors were with these mass violence (stabbings, guns, physical violence leading to death,) situations and just be informed as the violence will always be there; we can only hope to minimize it. But I assure you, banning or limiting guns will not stop humans from being violent to one another.  And you can't trust the cops to protect you, a court case already ruled that they have no obligation to protect you. 

I think we ought to stop looking at the guns and look at the mental factors that lead those to commit mass violence and normalize the idea of law-abiding citizens carrying to protect the defenseless, rather than calling those that are proud to carry and protect "gun nuts".  

There are cops unwilling to protect you and we are forced to pay them, but law abiding citizens will voluntarily protect you without hesitation.  What's wrong with any of that?

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by American Swindle

[formermav43 4606]

I think it’s acceptable to question whether or not this is an appropriate Christian response.

[jimmyjazz 45884]

40 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

What tribe am I a part of that spiked the football?  The entire Cloak Room is dominated by mainly one ideology. 

 

That is complete, unmitigated USDA Grade A Jumbo horseshit.

Fully half the Cloak Room is populated by posters who were ADAMANT right-wing Republican types, staunch 2A supporters who decried any additional gun control.  To their credit, they see the ongoing rise of mass shootings for what it is -- cause for concern.  They also tend to be concerned about the rise of a fascist administration and are not afraid to call it out for what it is.

You can try to paint everyone here into a libtard corner, but you would be wrong, and you should feel great shame for not paying attention.  For fuck's sake, there are multiple posts on this thread alone expressing concern about these shootings by people who not only admit to being gun owners but who do so proudly, yet they are understandably worried about the way things are heading.

You can call me a libtard and you'd be right, except for the "tard" part, but give these other folks some credit.  They are intellectually honest and, like most people who are smart and curious, continously evaluate their positions and shift when warranted.  

Edited December 31, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[fattyflattie 4639]

5 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

 

It’s just another self-curated echo chamber for them. Like their Twitter and Facebook feeds and watching Fox News. Any opposing views are “political” and their views are just “stating my opinion”.

 

Notice these folks never come here to defend their views where they might be challenged.

 

They’re pussies and cowards who hide behind their guns and close their eyes and ears to anything that might make them feel wrong.

 

They suck.

It’s fucking amazing you can get a full Bama education and not learn about irony along the way. 
 

10 hours ago, yoladu said:

a more effective killing machine than a shotgun, correct?

Potentially, but I wouldn’t describe it that way. Both tremendously lethal in their respective situations. A sa shotgun can be fired just as fast (see Youtube link below), hold up to a dozen shells (SRM 1216), but contain hundreds of projectiles in those dozen shells.  Distance and crowding would be the differentiators. Very lucky this pos didn’t have it together.  This could have been much worse, even with the guard eventually landing his shot. 

8 hours ago, BradInATX said:

It would have been with the 8 223 (or better 556) rounds the assailant could have fired from an AR

 ? 
 

 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

41 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I think it’s acceptable to question whether or not this is an appropriate Christian response.

Not among the Anabaptists. 

[atomheartbevo 89625]

1 hour ago, American Swindle said:

What tribe am I a part of that spiked the football?  The entire Cloak Room is dominated by mainly one ideology. 

Know how I know you know very little about your fellow posters?

There's a shit-ton of us here who are/were formerly Republicans/conservatives, and if you had followed some of us through various sites, you'd have seen quite a few of us going from raging Republicans to independents, and even liberals/Democrats for some.

Imagine that, a website focused on following the sports teams of a particular university, composed mainly of people who attended said university who, shockingly, have viewpoints that evolve over time.

[BradInATX 9208]

 ? 
 
 
 

Lmao. Now go look up world record AR rapid fire shooters.

[BradInATX 9208]

Know how I know you know very little about your fellow posters?

There's a shit-ton of us here who are/were formerly Republicans/conservatives, and if you had followed some of us through various sites, you'd have seen quite a few of us going from raging Republicans to independents, and even liberals/Democrats for some.

Imagine that, a website focused on following the sports teams of a particular university, composed mainly of people who attended said university who, shockingly, have viewpoints that evolve over time.

He's just trying to make himself feel better about who he is.

This is a Texas message board. All of us own guns. From where I'm sitting at my desk, if I had one of those sticks with a shark head on the end that you squeeze a trigger and the shark head bites stuff, I could reach a 9mm and an AR-15.

It's just that some people can't comprehend that there are people capable of nuanced thought out there who both own guns and also want reasonable legislation. In the same way that color blind people can't mentally grasp what "color" is, simple thinkers can't comprehend nuance and reason, so they retreat to "guns great *drool*".

 

 

[Pam Cummings 9639]

11 hours ago, Tom said:

 

You can feel free to redirect your sympathy elsewhere.  

I often feel like the negs you receive aren't warranted, but you really are proving me wrong today.

Did you really just accuse any of us of wishing for more innocent people to die from guns?  

My wish would be events like these to never happen in the first place.  Despite the security guard reacting quickly, innocent blood was still shed and innocent life was lost.  Why don't you tell the victim's loved ones what victory they should feel?  Thank God more weren't hurt and thank God for the security guard that stopped it all, but this was still a tragedy despite your tribe spiking the football.

I don't know what the answer is.  I'm a former CHL holder and will eventually inherit a shitload of firearms, but I question the point when this is a uniquely American problem.  What do you think is the answer to all of the lost lives and bloodshed?  What's your solution beyond prayers? 

Imagine celebrating the fact that you have to bring guns to CHURCH of all places. These people really have been brainwashed.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Pam Cummings

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

10 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

 ? 
 
 
 

Lmao. Now go look up world record AR rapid fire shooters.

Yeah, its not hard to pull a trigger fast (recoil pull)/bump stock or whatever. Pulling the trigger on that shotgun in the vid obviously wasn’t the impressive part, but the only one I know that shows rapid fire. Maybe you can tell me which of the two you have to actually somewhat aim?   Or which one you can pattern a nice 4’ diameter of death with?   You specifically said he’d have 8 more down the tube with an AR, which is ignorant conjecture, at best.  I really dgaf about your agenda, everyone has one, but peddling bullshit is a bad look. 

[BradInATX 9208]

12 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah, its not hard to pull a trigger fast (recoil pull)/bump stock or whatever. Pulling the trigger on that shotgun in the vid obviously wasn’t the impressive part, but the only one I know that shows rapid fire. Maybe you can tell me which of the two you have to actually somewhat aim?   Or which one you can pattern a nice 4’ diameter of death with?   You specifically said he’d have 8 more down the tube with an AR, which is ignorant conjecture, at best.  I really dgaf about your agenda, everyone has one, but peddling bullshit is a bad look. 

Yeah, it's clearly me, someone who owns an AR and multiple shotguns, that has an agenda. And it's definitely not the guy claiming that a fucking shotgun is just as deadly in a shooting event as an AR-15. LMAO. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by BradInATX

[RPM 26316]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Imagine celebrating the fact that you have to bring guns to CHURCH of all places. These people really have been brainwashed.

[fattyflattie 4639]

Yeah I’m sure you’ve got a ton of guns, your intelligence on them is stunning. Maybe you can teach brat, burnteyes, and a few of us a few things about them sometime.

In a situation with a crowded room and a maximum 100’ shot, like I don’t know, this congregation, a sa shotgun loaded with buckshot and open choke would be just as deadly as anything else. Anything that can fire several hundred .33 cal projectiles in a matter of seconds Is deadly af, I don’t know how you can even begin to argue it, but you’re the gun guy so...  The fact it only lasted 6 seconds, probably makes it even deadlier.  Imagine how quick the fbi/instructed could have landed one on him had the pos actually had to aim his weapon.  You stretch it out to 150’ and out, then yeah, things change.  But keep trying to convince everyone the big bad AR15 is the deadliest weapon there is in every situation that’s ever existed because black gun is bad.  And fwiw I don’t give a single fuck about an AR, my guns have AAA wood at a minimum.  
 

[American Swindle 102]

46 minutes ago, RPM said:

Quote

Question: "Am I my brother’s keeper?"

Answer: The phrase “my brother’s keeper” occurs in the context of the story of Cain and Abel in Genesis 4:1-9. After the Lord God had expelled Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden for their disobedience, Cain killed his brother Abel out of jealousy that God had found Abel’s sacrifice acceptable, but He had rejected Cain’s. After the murder, the Lord, knowing full well what had happened, asked Cain where Abel was. Cain’s response was "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?"

There is a grain of truth in this brazen lie, despite the surly response Cain offers to the God who created him. While no one is the absolute “keeper” of others in that we are not responsible for everyone’s safety when we are not present, every man is his brother’s keeper in that we are not to commit violent acts against them or allow others to do so if we can prevent it. This sort of “keeping” is something God rightfully demands of everyone, on the grounds of both justice and love. But Cain’s reply indicates a total lack of any kind of feeling for another human being—not to mention the absence of brotherly love—and the overriding presence of the kind of selfishness which kills affection and gives rise to hatred.

You ought to replace the gun with a symbol that represents justice and love.  

[American Swindle 102]

13 hours ago, formermav43 said:

I think it’s acceptable to question whether or not this is an appropriate Christian response.

What specifically?  Bearing arms in the church or killing the shooter?

[American Swindle 102]

11 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Know how I know you know very little about your fellow posters?

There's a shit-ton of us here who are/were formerly Republicans/conservatives, and if you had followed some of us through various sites, you'd have seen quite a few of us going from raging Republicans to independents, and even liberals/Democrats for some.

Imagine that, a website focused on following the sports teams of a particular university, composed mainly of people who attended said university who, shockingly, have viewpoints that evolve over time.

You're right, my bad.  I'm not entrenched in the board as much as others and mainly hang in the Cloak Room so in all honesty I'm not informed as to the political leanings of everyone on the board that do not post in the CR.  

It has been my experience that the CR seems to be more progressive than conservative or libertarian based on the most active users.  Call it my opinion from my limited experience.  

[BradInATX 9208]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah I’m sure you’ve got a ton of guns, your intelligence on them is stunning. Maybe you can teach brat, burnteyes, and a few of us a few things about them sometime.

In a situation with a crowded room and a maximum 100’ shot, like I don’t know, this congregation, a sa shotgun loaded with buckshot and open choke would be just as deadly as anything else. Anything that can fire several hundred .33 cal projectiles in a matter of seconds Is deadly af, I don’t know how you can even begin to argue it, but you’re the gun guy so...  The fact it only lasted 6 seconds, probably makes it even deadlier.  Imagine how quick the fbi/instructed could have landed one on him had the pos actually had to aim his weapon.  You stretch it out to 150’ and out, then yeah, things change.  But keep trying to convince everyone the big bad AR15 is the deadliest weapon there is in every situation that’s ever existed because black gun is bad.  And fwiw I don’t give a single fuck about an AR, my guns have AAA wood at a minimum.  
 

*Watches a video of one of the fastest time-to-neutralization that's ever happened in a mass shooting attempt*

"Well, that weapon was definitely the right choice! I am really smart!"

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by BradInATX

[Pam Cummings 9639]

5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

*Watches a video of one of the fastest time-to-neutralization that's ever happened in a mass shooting attempt*

"Well, that weapon was definitely the right choice! I am really smart!"

 

I'm pretty sure it's more of a case of that security guy who is a shooting instructor being the wrong one, tbh.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I'm pretty sure it's more of a case of that security guy who is a shooting instructor being the wrong one, tbh.

Maybe. But that shotgun had 6 bullets left, max, and fatty is being intentionally obtuse. There are a million things to argue on the pro-gun side, most of which are valid. "A ShoTGun iS JuST As GooD At MasS SHOoTiNgs As aN AR" is probably one million lines down that list in terms of validity.

Edited December 31, 2019 by BradInATX

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

And fwiw I don’t give a single fuck about an AR, my guns have AAA wood at a minimum.  

r/iamabadass

[atomheartbevo 89625]

19 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

You're right, my bad.  I'm not entrenched in the board as much as others and mainly hang in the Cloak Room so in all honesty I'm not informed as to the political leanings of everyone on the board that do not post in the CR.  

It has been my experience that the CR seems to be more progressive than conservative or libertarian based on the most active users.  Call it my opinion from my limited experience.  

If you go back to Shaggy, or even before Shaggy, you'd see that plenty of us were conservative, and more than a few were libertarians, but that's to be expected in online communities made up of Texans, and that probably trends older than many internet communities.  Plus, libertarians seem to be overly represented in online communities as well, and I can't explain that, but I've seen it since my BBS and usenet days.   My guess is that it's the nature of libertarians being overly represented in the IT/high-tech industry compared to the rest of America in general.

Of course we will seem more progressive at times or in certain topics - most of us have college degrees.  Take a red state like Oklahoma. Go to places in Oklahoma like Tulsa and OKC where there's more folks with college degrees, and you'll see them trending more towards the middle than to the hard right like their relatives in rural areas.

I'm still waiting on my grant to study it, but I have a theory that Surly, and previously Shaggy, see much more activity in subforms like CR, Movies, Music, hobbies, etc., when the football program has a dumpster fire going in the coaching ranks.

[atomheartbevo 89625]

To put it another way:  Trump is about as aggy as you can get, short of him buying some big-ass ring and fucking farm animals, and so naturally a lot of UT folks are going to look down on him. 

[formermav43 4606]

36 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

What specifically?  Bearing arms in the church or killing the shooter?

Yes

[fattyflattie 4639]

15 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

r/iamabadass

Not a bad ass, just different strokes.   Some folks into tacticool look, some into fiddleback, fine by me. 

And I should have stated *buy not *own.  I've inherited plenty that are tomato sticks, but of course, those provide qualities to me.  

[American Swindle 102]

26 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Yes

I'm for questioning everything, but what are your thoughts on the below take?

While no one is the absolute “keeper” of others in that we are not responsible for everyone’s safety when we are not present, every man is his brother’s keeper in that we are not to commit violent acts against them or allow others to do so if we can prevent it. This sort of “keeping” is something God rightfully demands of everyone, on the grounds of both justice and love.

If this indeed is the correct interpretation, then it would seem the parishioner's actions were consistent with the principles of the Christian faith, namely the notion that "I am my brother's keeper."  

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

33 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

To put it another way:  Trump is about as aggy as you can get, short of him buying some big-ass ring and fucking farm animals, and so naturally a lot of UT folks are going to look down on him. 

I'm sure he has a big ass ring. His style is gaudy and tacky.  He'd also absolutely fuck a sheep at Pyle midfield if it got him adoring cheers from all the aggies present. 

[American Swindle 102]

33 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

If you go back to Shaggy, or even before Shaggy, you'd see that plenty of us were conservative, and more than a few were libertarians, but that's to be expected in online communities made up of Texans, and that probably trends older than many internet communities.  Plus, libertarians seem to be overly represented in online communities as well, and I can't explain that, but I've seen it since my BBS and usenet days.   My guess is that it's the nature of libertarians being overly represented in the IT/high-tech industry compared to the rest of America in general.

Of course we will seem more progressive at times or in certain topics - most of us have college degrees.  Take a red state like Oklahoma. Go to places in Oklahoma like Tulsa and OKC where there's more folks with college degrees, and you'll see them trending more towards the middle than to the hard right like their relatives in rural areas.

I'm still waiting on my grant to study it, but I have a theory that Surly, and previously Shaggy, see much more activity in subforms like CR, Movies, Music, hobbies, etc., when the football program has a dumpster fire going in the coaching ranks.

Put me in the camp that views Public Education, The Majority of Higher Education and Academia, and the Media as being slanted and comprised of mostly folks that hold a Leftist leaning ideology so of course the chances of posters here starting on the left is much higher (assuming they attend college.)  Also in Red States, if they start on the right, you would expect them to veer center or left center after 12-15 years of education from institutions that are liberal/left.   Not that the intentions of the Left aren't good, I'm just opposed to the whole idea that they get to use government as a vehicle to force others to conform to their views as opposed to independently compelling others through private means to see it their way and allowing their ideas to win over time. Basically: "Democracy means that the majority gets to piss in the soup of the minority."  Unlike the Left, this is the strategy of the small l Ron Paulians and Rothbardians within the libertarian movement.  

 

It's as if our real education in life begins after College, when we enter the work force and have kids.  Only then, does one realize how hard it is, given the current 1.4 trillion dollar financed swamp, to raise a family or buy a house or pay for college. 

We argue about who will get elected, what this politician said or did, or what Trump tweeted about in narcissistic fashion, but the real story is that the Swamp is still there, and it's the trillion dollar budget that needs to be choked out and reduced.  Trump did no such thing when he signed the omnibus bill.  

Anyway, That's an interesting study.  PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY READY TO KILL EACH OTHER IN THE POLITICAL FORUMS BECAUSE THEIR FOOTBALL PROGRAMS SUCK ASS!!

[Junior Miller 1502]

You fucks still whining about the fw church shooting? Shit, I click this thinking there had to be another one already. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

*Watches a video of one of the fastest time-to-neutralization that's ever happened in a mass shooting attempt*

"Well, that weapon was definitely the right choice! I am really smart!"

Well, we were actually discussing this specific event.  You replied he would fired a very specific amount of additional rounds in this specific event.  But if want to move the goal posts, sure.  I don't know about smart, but I can bust your bullshit up all day. 

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

Maybe. But that shotgun had 6 bullets left, max, and fatty is being intentionally obtuse. There are a million things to argue on the pro-gun side, most of which are valid. "A ShoTGun iS JuST As GooD At MasS SHOoTiNgs As aN AR" is probably one million lines down that list in terms of validity.

Really?  6 left, huh.  You are a gun guy, so I assume you know there are several tactical shotguns on the market today, some holding up to 25 rounds.  Using 2.75" 00 buckshot, one could send (12*25) 300 .33 cal projectiles without reloading.   A bit more math, hang in there.  You can fit 27 #4 buckshot pellets in a 2.75" 12 ga shell.  I thought it was important to note, since they are .24 cal (closest avail to your haunted .556) and 2.75" because of max loaded quantity.  SO, if so inclined, one could send (27*25) 675 .24 caliber projectiles down the tube without reloading. All that said, the KSG-25 is not SA, so lets stick to those, as it's what we've been discussing.   I know, 1350 fps vs. 3250 blah blah BUT at <100', which is what were discussing, it matters little.    Here's a link to some:

https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/top-5-high-capacity-shotguns-2018/

Here's something for you, the SRM 1216.  Semi-automatic that holds 16 shells.  It can fire 4 at a time before magazine needs to be rotated (1 second each flip?; you determine vids available)  Here's a video of some old fuck fumbling with one.  Let me know how deadly you think that is.  3:30 to 5:50 should show you exactly what you've been told.  Up to 100' or so, a rapid fire shotgun is deadly af.  I know I'm not going to be able to show you anything new, you own an AR, some shotguns, AND a 9mm, afterall, but maybe someone like @yoladu who asked the question can learn something.  

Old man shooting at targets from 15' to ~100'.    Targets actually set up all over.

 

Magazine talk and manipulation at :20.  I bet that guy can get it going pretty quick.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by fattyflattie
Added link for those that would like to learn something.

[atomheartbevo 89625]

15 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Put me in the camp that views Public Education, The Majority of Higher Education and Academia, and the Media as being slanted and comprised of mostly folks that hold a Leftist leaning ideology so of course the chances of posters here starting on the left is much higher (assuming they attend college.) 

If you want the homeschooled kids, go visit TexAgs.com.   No matter what, if they ask you if you've been vaccinated, say "no, I don't let the federool government tell me what to do with my body!"

15 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

It's as if our real education in life begins after College, when we enter the work force and have kids.  Only then, does one realize how hard it is, given the current 1.4 trillion dollar financed swamp, to raise a family or buy a house or pay for college. 

Surprise, the Republicans give absolutely no shits about any of this, because their base is too old to have kids and/or is retired, has Medicare, etc. and gives no fucks!

And while some of us are older, a big chunk of us do have kids, and do have to worry about housing, college costs, healthcare, etc., so yeah, we will tune out those who give no shits about our concerns, such as the current Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump-led GOP.

15 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Anyway, That's an interesting study.  PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY READY TO KILL EACH OTHER IN THE POLITICAL FORUMS BECAUSE THEIR FOOTBALL PROGRAMS SUCK ASS!!

It's true.  We get snarky as fuck when the football team has problems, since most of us are here on this website because of said football team (that and we tired of the other Longhorn fan sites who were pumping out sunshine while we were sitting in a hurricane).

[Homercles 10205]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

If you go back to Shaggy, or even before Shaggy, you'd see that plenty of us were conservative, and more than a few were libertarians, but that's to be expected in online communities made up of Texans, and that probably trends older than many internet communities.  Plus, libertarians seem to be overly represented in online communities as well, and I can't explain that, but I've seen it since my BBS and usenet days.   My guess is that it's the nature of libertarians being overly represented in the IT/high-tech industry compared to the rest of America in general.

Of course we will seem more progressive at times or in certain topics - most of us have college degrees.  Take a red state like Oklahoma. Go to places in Oklahoma like Tulsa and OKC where there's more folks with college degrees, and you'll see them trending more towards the middle than to the hard right like their relatives in rural areas.

I'm still waiting on my grant to study it, but I have a theory that Surly, and previously Shaggy, see much more activity in subforms like CR, Movies, Music, hobbies, etc., when the football program has a dumpster fire going in the coaching ranks.

I am going to pos rep this because I believe it’s true + unprecedented political madness.  Also because Alan’s Psychedelic Breakfast.   

[atomheartbevo 89625]

3 minutes ago, Homercles said:

I am going to pos rep this because I believe it’s true + unprecedented political madness.  Also because Alan’s Psychedelic Breakfast.   

It would have been interesting to put together a Shaggy chart of CR posting vs football wins and losses prior to, and after Trump.

I will admit that Trump has driven many of us conservatives/Republicans into the moderate and independent camp (and some all the way into the liberal camp).  No denying that.  Nobody wants to listen to a 4th grader ranting about his enemies on twitter except other 4th graders.

And tying back into this thread, there's been some shootings over the past 5-7 years, as well as the NRA and GOP reactions to those shootings, that have driven many of us to reconsider our stances in certain areas.  

Edited December 31, 2019 by atomheartbevo

[formermav43 4606]

24 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

I'm for questioning everything, but what are your thoughts on the below take?

While no one is the absolute “keeper” of others in that we are not responsible for everyone’s safety when we are not present, every man is his brother’s keeper in that we are not to commit violent acts against them or allow others to do so if we can prevent it. This sort of “keeping” is something God rightfully demands of everyone, on the grounds of both justice and love.

If this indeed is the correct interpretation, then it would seem the parishioner's actions were consistent with the principles of the Christian faith, namely the notion that "I am my brother's keeper."  

 

“If this indeed is the correct interpretation”-there’s the rub. We’re not going to settle something that has been debated for a couple of thousand years on surly, and I don’t pretend to have a definitive answer. But questioning that is legitimate, because 1) there are other principles at stake and 2) it’s arguable that applying the principle above in that way isn’t correct.

For one thing, the concept of being my brother’s keeper extends to the shooter. When asked about the greatest commandment, Jesus responded that it was to 1) love God and 2) love your neighbor as yourself. In response to the further query, “Who is my neighbor?” he expounded his point with the parable of the Good Samaritan. Samaritans were hated by Jews as a mongrel race who bastardized the Torah. Yet, here, the Samaritan acted as a neighbor. Part of the point, then, is this: EVEN MY ENEMY IS MY NEIGHBOR. Should I kill my neighbor?

More directly, Jesus says we are to love our enemies. That’s not just the common sense love of the world; we are, in fact, to do good to those who hate us (Luke 6). Where does killing my enemy figure in that?

We see this non resistant love of enemies most clearly in the cross, of course. He was certainly the victim of unjust violence. And, if we take him seriously, he could have fought back! He could have called legions of angels and didn’t. He tells Pilate that if his kingdom were fashioned like those of the world, his servants would fight; the fact that they don’t is evidence of the different nature of his kingdom. Most directly to the principle advocated above, when Peter drew his sword and cut off the ear of one of the men sent to arrest Jesus-attempting to prevent a violent act against an innocent, in other words-Jesus told him to sheathe his sword: whoever lives by it, dies by it. 
 

It won’t do in response to say Jesus HAD to do that as the Son of God but it doesn’t apply to us-that’s fundamentally Docetism, denying his humanity, for one thing. But, more importantly, the earliest Christians took this seriously as an example. Christians are called to follow in his steps, even to a suffering death (1 Pet 2:21-23); we are not to take revenge, but instead overcome evil with good (Romans 12).

Now, I recognize that the principle of protecting the innocent is Biblical too. And, if after working through all this, a Christian is convinced that it’s valid to use deadly force as a last resort-a LAST resort-I respect that decision. But we can’t just short circuit the hard work and take it for granted without grappling with this first. We have competing principles at stake.

The problem with the argument as stated is it begs the question, simply assuming that violence, even lethal violence, is appropriate to protect people. But that’s precisely what’s at issue! Protect the innocent, yes; but how far do we take that? There are some things a Christian simply must not do, as every believer would recognize. When we read Scripture with a cruciform lens, I’m convinced that the principal of loving my neighbor, loving my enemies, even to the point of death, is more important. (And, if the question in response is, what about the love of your neighbor toward your innocent brother? Well, if we REALLY believe what we claim to believe, who is in greater danger here? Who should fear death more?) For what it’s worth, that’s what the earliest Christians thought too.

Of course, from a pragmatic, worldly perspective, that’s irrational. But it was in Jesus’ day too. If we’re not known as people who love our enemies in a way that seems strange to the world, then we’re not really following Jesus.

[Homercles 10205]

28 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Put me in the camp that views Public Education, The Majority of Higher Education and Academia, and the Media as being slanted and comprised of mostly folks that hold a Leftist leaning ideology so of course the chances of posters here starting on the left is much higher (assuming they attend college.)  Also in Red States, if they start on the right, you would expect them to veer center or left center after 12-15 years of education from institutions that are liberal/left.   Not that the intentions of the Left aren't good, I'm just opposed to the whole idea that they get to use government as a vehicle to force others to conform to their views as opposed to independently compelling others through private means to see it their way and allowing their ideas to win over time. Basically: "Democracy means that the majority gets to piss in the soup of the minority."  Unlike the Left, this is the strategy of the small l Ron Paulians and Rothbardians within the libertarian movement.  

 

It's as if our real education in life begins after College, when we enter the work force and have kids.  Only then, does one realize how hard it is, given the current 1.4 trillion dollar financed swamp, to raise a family or buy a house or pay for college. 

We argue about who will get elected, what this politician said or did, or what Trump tweeted about in narcissistic fashion, but the real story is that the Swamp is still there, and it's the trillion dollar budget that needs to be choked out and reduced.  Trump did no such thing when he signed the omnibus bill.  

Anyway, That's an interesting study.  PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY READY TO KILL EACH OTHER IN THE POLITICAL FORUMS BECAUSE THEIR FOOTBALL PROGRAMS SUCK ASS!!

You weren’t paying attention and I’m sure it’s on purpose.  There are a dozen people here who compose a sizable portion of the decade+ core group who will tell you they were conservative/republican historically, were quite vocal about it, and have now done a 180 due to the sheer insanity of the current GOP/Trump worshiping.  The old site was very conservative and overrun by hardcore righties back before Trump...go take a look at shaggy Bevo/Texas.  I’ll wait.  
 

But keep on using your tired talking points about blaming education, media and the ghostly ‘deep state/swamp’ being the problem.  I choose to listen to people I’ve ‘known’ for almost 9 years who are changing their allegiance in disgust.  

[Homercles 10205]

The hard right constantly flinging BlamePoo at the ‘deep state’ reminds me of the mythical creature Squinky that cost osu a few shots at mythical greatness over the years...every time a ball was fumbled, call didn’t go our way, wind blew a kick off target, etc it was easy to blame Squinky.   Who was going to argue?

 

Keep your enemies so generic that you can blame anything on them.  

Edited December 31, 2019 by Homercles

[atomheartbevo 89625]

5 minutes ago, Homercles said:

The hard right constantly flinging BlamePoo at the ‘deep state’ reminds me of the mythical creature Squinky that cost osu a few shots at mythical greatness over the years...every time a ball was fumbled, call didn’t go our way, wind blew a kick off target, etc it was easy to blame Squinky.   Who was going to argue?

You could have blamed Mack Brown or Bob Stoops, or Barry Switzer, and we would have all agreed with you.

[jimmyjazz 45884]

Maybe the majority of educated people are liberal because liberals are smarter than conservatives.

Just a theory.

[Guest Lobo]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Maybe the majority of educated people are liberal because liberals are smarter than conservatives.

Just a theory.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.  Now, the average Trump voter versus the average Non-Trump voter.  Yeah, that's an SAT Landslide.  

[jimmyjazz 45884]

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.  Now, the average Trump voter versus the average Non-Trump voter.  Yeah, that's an SAT Landslide.  

Hey, I said it was just a theory.

[American Swindle 102]

54 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

The problem with the argument as stated is it begs the question, simply assuming that violence, even lethal violence, is appropriate to protect people. But that’s precisely what’s at issue! Protect the innocent, yes; but how far do we take that?

This is a good point.  Perhaps a different weapon that is not as lethal?  A taser? A gun with those rubber bullets?