Active shooter thread

[tantric superman 4667]

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Nice. Maybe throw in cuck or other Trump-like words since you've decided to go heel in Cloak Room. 

Lighten up Frances.  (SWIDT?)  My only difference with Henry G seems to be that I'd be willing to make room for continued personal carrying with almost limitless regulations and perhaps somewhat more a hesitancy of doing away with the 2nd Amendment. 

 

[henrygandorf 29190]

3 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I don't need one because I'm a more wiry version of Warren Oates.  I just think you and your husband should have the right to decide on personal protection for you when you go to a bad neighborhood, assuming you have no criminal record and you've passed all the tests for certification.  

so you say you'd prefer to be able to have a gun on your person.

i ask why you need a gun on your person.

then you say you don't need a gun on your person, and make a comment implying that i'm either a woman or gay.  ok.

why are you going into a "bad neighborhood"?  what makes that neighborhood "bad"?  you know guns would be illegal there too.  so many of your plans seem like you're itching to get into a gun fight.  i know you like old westerns, but come on.

also do you think everyone who's ever shot another person has a criminal record?  what if it was their first crime and they had just been planning it for a while and this was their big day?  most murderers weren't murderers until they killed someone.  we all gotta start somewhere.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

so you get a one-time license to take it to your lease.  otherwise, it's illegal?  is that what you're saying?  you shouldn't need to carry it home.  and if you have more than one lease or area where you hunt, then it's time to buy a second gun.  people with a second home have a second fridge.  they don't bring their fridge back and forth with them.  same with washer/dryers.

you'd rather have rifles be restricted by licenses acquired by human people than have rifles be safely locked away?

turning leases into armories isn't what you're describing it to be.  an armory is typically filled with legal things.  this would be like turning a lease into an evidence lockup.  while those get busted into on tv shows and movies, i imagine in the real world, they're relatively safe, and would likely have electronic surveillance.  

Nah don't restrict the weapons, just make the owners carry liability insurance on each one they own. A couple of hundred bucks a month per weapon and that well regulated milita starts getting smaller.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

Even though it's commonly understood that rights listed in the Constitution aren't unlimited- you have the right to free speech/can't yell "fire" in a theatre- maybe we should amend the 2A and make it explicit the government has the right to regulate gun ownership. Hell, make it well-regulated and spell it out. 

[Guest Lobo]

Also, for you tough-guy militia wanna-be's...pro tip:

It's our right to own firearms.  I do.  You wanna get a CHL or open carry or dance around the Capitol with your long rifle, have at it.  But remember, as good as that weapon feels in your hands.  Nothing, and I mean nothing, compares to ordering somebody to shoot somebody else on your word.  Beats any 2A jerk-off gun show to hell, I promise.  You haven't felt  true power in your life, believe me.  

Edited March 23, 2021 by Lobo

[tantric superman 4667]

6 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

you'd rather have rifles be restricted by licenses acquired by human people than have rifles be safely locked away?

I think there would be big unintended consequences from creating large stashes of rifles out in relatively undefended country locations. 

If a person has responsibly hunted for years and stores the weapon in their home and has transported it to whatever lease or location they are hunting, yes, I think that individual licensing is likely the safest approach.  I'm open to other suggestions. 

[henrygandorf 29190]

3 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

...doing away with the 2nd Amendment.

it's still there.  you can keep your handgun at home to protect your family from the king of england.

[Firemans4Horn 18048]

8 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You really think you can avoid grocery stores for that long?

No. And I have 18 years of worries about Adam Lanza types shooting up my kids school to deal with as well. 

[Guest Lobo]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

it's still there.  you can keep your handgun at home to protect your family from the king of england.

He the racist one coming for my mixed-race baby?  

[henrygandorf 29190]

1 minute ago, tantric superman said:

I think there would be big unintended consequences from creating large stashes of rifles out in relatively undefended country locations. 

what makes you think they would be undefended?

i'm not suggesting you start storing rifles there yet don't give the park ranger a couple of unpaid interns.

maybe with fewer guns on the streets we can divert some of the police budget.

[tantric superman 4667]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

so you say you'd prefer to be able to have a gun on your person.

i ask why you need a gun on your person.

I don't need a gun on my person.  If someone kills me they kill me.  I respect another's decision that they may want to protect themselves with a firearm both in their home and in the car and on  their person.   Personal assaults and rapes happen.  I don't think it is my place to prohibit them from protecting themselves. 

The issue was raised about there being some number of deaths from mass shooting that might be acceptable by the American public.  If we ban guns as personal protection, that will be accepting some number of assaults/murders that may have been foiled by the now prohibited weapons.

[atomheartbevo 89659]

1 minute ago, 4th&Five said:

I mean, yeah. Our kids have active shooter drills in preschool now. We don’t even acknowledge how damaging it is to a child to prepare them that they might be slaughtered in their class someday. 

When I was a kid, in early elementary, we still had Ye Olde "Duck and Cover" bullshit drills (in 3rd grade they dropped it/merged it with tornado drills).  It was a joke, none of us could even comprehend what it involved and in retrospect, we were no where near anything of strategic value.

When I was in junior high, we were within 15-20 miles of actual missile silos.  We didn't do those drills.  When I asked why I did them in another state, in the middle of nowhere, but not in an area that was actually near an actual fucking nuclear missile base, a teacher told me they were told by some of the parents that were in the Air Force that they were useless, and the school admin felt it did nothing but scare the kids and make them think about what was down the highway.

My wife works in education, and has to do these active shooter drills, as does my 2nd grader, and they both know exactly what it means, and that it happens way more often than we'd like.  Pre-covid, we attended one of the largest churches in Austin, and there were folks at every door that were armed (albeit concealed), and they all had their little earpieces, and even though they were volunteers, they all went through some kind of training fairly often. I know, because I was asked by somebody who knew my background if I wanted to volunteer. 

It was only recently that our church had a large number of armed volunteers. Before the Sutherland Springs shooter it used to just be an off-duty copy (county or city), usually not in uniform, that was a member of the church. Then at some point went to a uniformed off-duty cop walking between the main entrances, and a few volunteers that were mingled in with parishioners. After Sutherland Springs, it went to pairs of armed volunteers at all entrances (and some entrances were kept locked, to cut down on somebody slipping in). And after Sutherland Springs, the volunteers would immediately talk to anybody that seemed odd under the guise of "hey, you're new here, let's show you around, talk about what you want out of a church, what are your spiritual needs, would you like some coffee or orange juice, etc."

It's so fucked up that this stuff is becoming the norm.

[washparkhorn 9939]

10 dead.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/live

[markstanco 12577]

why do you need one on your person or in your car?  are you planning on getting into a gun fight?  are you a character in the wild bunch?

I have a gun under my steering wheel. No, I don't plan on getting into a gunfight. But there are criminals out there who actually carry guns and my first thought would be to jack your car. No person who has a gun legally drives around raging and wanting to shoot somebody. This is likely hard for you to understand but it is true.

[Sawbonz 27556]

3 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

No. And I have 18 years of worries about Adam Lanza types shooting up my kids school to deal with as well. 

You should worry more about them getting killed in a traffic accident or from a childhood cancer

Edited March 23, 2021 by Sawbonz
I’m not just being flip-these are more likely to happen than your child being a school shooting victim

[wildcat09 29354]

2 minutes ago, markstanco said:

 

 

I have a gun under my steering wheel. No, I don't plan on getting into a gunfight. But there are criminals out there who actually carry guns and my first thought would be to jack your car. No person who has a gun legally drives around raging and wanting to shoot somebody. This is likely hard for you to understand but it is true.

 

Except for all those mass shooters who’ve carried out mass shootings using legally acquired firearms.

[Bozo_Casanova 26452]

3 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

which one do you think is easier to regulate:

1. weapons

2. people getting angry/being generally unstable

#2, by far. It’s not close, either. We’re the only advanced country in the world without a modern healthcare system and healthcare includes mental health. And we’d improve the lives of millions who suffer in silence without harming others as well. 

A great disarming isn’t possible. But red flag laws and, you know, genuine concern for each other’s well being are. Look at the debate in Austin right now: reactionaries are shrieking that we need to get the bums off the sidewalks. Meanwhile so-called progressives are saying we need to keep them ON the sidewalks. Maybe we need to figure out why the richest society in the history of the world has so many bums, and why in the most medicated and deeply connected society in the history of the world so many of our brothers and sisters are so desperate and isolated that the only way they can deal with it is to shoot strangers. 

[tantric superman 4667]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

maybe with fewer guns on the streets we can divert some of the police budget.

Your "deer lease gun storage proposal" would actually encourage more weapons because those caches would have to be guarded/defended.  There are over a million registered hunters in Texas. 

How many pieces of property in Texas lease some or all of them out to deer hunters?  There may be a whole lot of caches.

[Firemans4Horn 18048]

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You should worry more about them getting killed in a traffic accident or from a childhood cancer

they have childhood cancer in Europe too. A lot less car accident deaths and school shootings though. 
 

thanks for the shitty statistical analysis. 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

6 minutes ago, markstanco said:

 

 

I have a gun under my steering wheel. No, I don't plan on getting into a gunfight. But there are criminals out there who actually carry guns and my first thought would be to jack your car. No person who has a gun legally drives around raging and wanting to shoot somebody. This is likely hard for you to understand but it is true.

 

I recommend you turn on the news.  There was a mass shooting earlier this week. And one today

[atomheartbevo 89659]

35 minutes ago, mdmost said:

You may find it odd that some Republicans actively fight against red flag laws since they're an infringement on 2A. 

Here's the thing that always bugged me:  Republicans as a whole, have no problem stripping away things like voting rights from felons, and most opposed felons owning guns (although plenty don't have a problem with it).

But if a person is throwing off all kinds of red flags, Republicans will fight tooth and nail to protect their 2A rights.

Way too many shooters were known to the authorities beforehand - kids who would have been voted "most likely to shoot up the school" if that was a thing, people who were in out and of the mental health care system, who were on and off prescription drugs that were helping them keep their shit together, people who wouldn't have even been allowed to own firearms, but were allowed to live in a household with plenty of firearms, etc.

We could pass some common sense red flag laws, and boost our mental health system - it wouldn't prevent every mass shooting, but many of us here can easily name half a dozen mass shootings that it would have prevented.

And if we cut down mass shootings, that would cut way down on the pressure to ban guns.  That seems like a really good thing for 2A fans.

But if we cut down on the pressure to ban guns, that would take away something Republican politicians love to campaign on.

And we just can't take away something that Republican politicians love to campaign on.

[tantric superman 4667]

15 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Even though it's commonly understood that rights listed in the Constitution aren't unlimited- you have the right to free speech/can't yell "fire" in a theatre- maybe we should amend the 2A and make it explicit the government has the right to regulate gun ownership. Hell, make it well-regulated and spell it out.

Could be done by taking control of the court or eliminating the Senate.

[henrygandorf 29190]

4 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I don't need a gun on my person.  If someone kills me they kill me.  I respect another's decision that they may want to protect themselves with a firearm both in their home and in the car and on  their person.   Personal assaults and rapes happen.  I don't think it is my place to prohibit them from protecting themselves. 

so your argument is that guns stop rapes?  so more guns is the answer, that's your position?

4 minutes ago, markstanco said:

I have a gun under my steering wheel. No, I don't plan on getting into a gunfight. But there are criminals out there who actually carry guns and my first thought would be to jack your car. No person who has a gun legally drives around raging and wanting to shoot somebody. This is likely hard for you to understand but it is true.

it's not hard for me to understand.  i have several friends (in both texas and california) who have licenses to carry and carry legally in their vehicles.  i consider them all to be safe and sensible people.  i don't know how things would go if a "criminal who carried a gun" tried to jack their car and both of them had guns, but i wouldn't be comfortable betting on them to be ok afterwards.

i assume you have car insurance?  if someone steals your car, the insurance company will basically buy a new car for you.  it will lose the sentimental value, but also you stayed out of what could've been a very dangerous gun fight.  i assume most people on here would rather live their entire lives without getting shot or having to shoot someone, so maybe i don't quite understand.

in my scenario, carrying a gun would be a really bad crime and jacking a car seems like an easy way to get caught.  but hey, those criminals probably don't care. 

guns + guns = more safety is not the math i learned when i was in school.

[Sawbonz 27556]

3 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

they have childhood cancer in Europe too. A lot less car accident deaths and school shootings though. 
 

thanks for the shitty statistical analysis. 

If you are actually worrying that your children are going to get shot at school from a likelihood standpoint that is irrational. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

59 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

America in currently #1 in the world in both drug overdose deaths and gun violence suicides.  I’d say our approach to both issues has been a catastrophic failure. 

By design.

[tantric superman 4667]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

so your argument is that guns stop rapes?  so more guns is the answer, that's your position?

Yep, that's exactly it.  Can't believe what took me multiple posts you got there in two poorly capitalized sentences.

[Satchel 6938]

It’s way too late for this, but wouldn’t it be great if we lived in a country that allowed guns in your home for the protection of your family and property but frowned on offensive ownership outside of the home except for a narrow group of waivers, e.g. hunting and the like?
What if we valued people to that degree?

[atomheartbevo 89659]

9 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You should worry more about them getting killed in a traffic accident or from a childhood cancer

How about talking about things we can control, instead of cherry picking shitting things we can't?

For instance, many of us have worried about dipshits yapping on their cell phones, and blowing through red lights/stop signs.  I do a lot of jogging, and am adding biking into the mix, and I see plenty of people blowing through stop signs and red lights every week, and almost every fucking one of them is yapping on a phone or looking at their phone.

Because of those dipshits, here in Texas, statewide it's illegal to text while driving, drivers under 18 cannot use handheld devices, it's illegal to use handheld devices while driving through a school zone, and more and more cities are cracking down on any handheld use within city limits.

We had a serious problem that was creeping up there, so we dealt with it.  We didn't ban cellphones - we are just saying use some common fucking sense, and pull over or go hands-free if you just have to talk to somebody.

None of this is rocket science.

[4th&Five 41538]

 

[atomheartbevo 89659]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

If you are actually worrying that your children are going to get shot at school from a likelihood standpoint that is irrational. 

In your opinion, should we just throw open the doors to the schools, say "fuck it, YOLO BITCHES!" and let the mentally ill and the unstable do whatever?

We aren't banning guns, but we can throw up plenty of barriers to some fucking lunatic doing something horrible.  

[henrygandorf 29190]

8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

A great disarming isn’t possible.

not overnight, but sure it's possible.  people evolve.  societies evolve.

do you think we're gonna have this type of gun violence in 100 years?  1000 years?  at some point, there will be a solution.  sucks that other countries will reach that solution centuries ahead of america, but that's just who we are.

there used to be no speed limits, no seatbelt laws, very few laws restricting drinking in cars, and smoking allowed on airplanes.  and that's just in the past ~40 years.

as to your other (non-quoted) point, yes, healthcare including mental health is a huge problem.  obviously.  but what's preferable:

-someone who seemed stable snapping and having access to a legal gun?

-someone who always seemed not quite as stable having access to a legal knife?

i'm old enough to remember a mass shooting where the only motive was that the guy was having a bad day.

[tantric superman 4667]

2 minutes ago, Satchel said:

It’s way too late for this, but wouldn’t it be great if we lived in a country that allowed guns in your home for the protection of your family and property but frowned on offensive ownership outside of the home except for a narrow group of waivers, e.g. hunting and the like?
What if we valued people to that degree?

I think atomheartbevo nails it above, but I also think it will take "Democratic hunters" to come up with a theme related to the 2nd amendment that it "responsible gun owner" vs. "gun banner".  If Beto had been an avid hunter he would have defeated Cruz.

That being said, maybe the ship has sailed, and Dems can never win more votes than they lose by assuming the cultural mantel of responsible gun owner. 

[Firemans4Horn 18048]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

If you are actually worrying that your children are going to get shot at school from a likelihood standpoint that is irrational. 

Do you need me to sign you up in a remedial Trump University class in statistics?

Is getting shot in a mass casualty event at a country music concert, grocery store, garlic festival, El Paso Wal Mart, or elementary school rare? Yes absolutely. Is it 100x more likely in America than the rest of the developed world? Yes absolutely.
 

So how about you fucking worry about what you want to worry about and I’ll take me and mine to a country that doesn’t have an industry devoted to selling bomb proof doors to elementary schools. 

[Helobious 9448]

Early reports saying 10 dead, and area hospitals haven’t received any injured patients. Unusual for there to be no injured survivors in a mass shooting, guy must’ve gone up and executed everyone he downed.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

3 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I’ve been on the get rid of guns train for a while. None of the arguments (2nd Amend, Hunting, Fun, Protection) outweigh the reduce occurrence and ease of mass murder 

As my Father says, "My thoughts, perzactly!"

 

[henrygandorf 29190]

8 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Yep, that's exactly it.  Can't believe what took me multiple posts you got there in two poorly capitalized sentences.

you said "personal assaults and rapes happen."  this was in reference to people wanting to carry a gun on their person.  please tell me where i took a wrong turn.  i'm trying to better understand your position.

also my poor capitalization is a style choice.  can't believe it only took 20 years of posting on texas longhorn message boards for someone to point it out.

[tantric superman 4667]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

For instance, many of us have worried about dipshits yapping on their cell phones, and blowing through red lights/stop signs.  I do a lot of jogging, and am adding biking into the mix, and I see plenty of people blowing through stop signs and red lights every week, and almost every fucking one of them is yapping on a phone or looking at their phone.

They should ban cute dogs.  I almost ran over a Pakistani couple in a cross walk yesterday because I was looking to my right at some minpin mix that looked like my dog. 

[Sawbonz 27556]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

In your opinion, should we just throw open the doors to the schools, say "fuck it, YOLO BITCHES!" and let the mentally ill and the unstable do whatever?

We aren't banning guns, but we can throw up plenty of barriers to some fucking lunatic doing something horrible.  

You should look up binary bias. My pointing out that the likelihood of any one person’s child is going to be the victim of gun violence does not imply that I think we should do nothing to deter gun violence in schools

[ultimaton 2979]

In 75% of the mass shootings in this country since '82, the shooter used a gun they purchased legally. That's sure a lot of shootings committed by "nobody".

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b9o6uDO18sLxBqPwl_Gh9bnhW-ev_dABH83M5Vb5L8o/edit#gid=0&range=L:L

[Lurch 5930]

[Lurch 5930]

[Sawbonz 27556]

7 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Do you need me to sign you up in a remedial Trump University class in statistics?

Is getting shot in a mass casualty event at a country music concert, grocery store, garlic festival, El Paso Wal Mart, or elementary school rare? Yes absolutely. Is it 100x more likely in America than the rest of the developed world? Yes absolutely.
 

So how about you fucking worry about what you want to worry about and I’ll take me and mine to a country that doesn’t have an industry devoted to selling bomb proof doors to elementary schools. 

Worry about whatever you want to. That doesn’t change the fact that the risk is tiny

[tantric superman 4667]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

you said "personal assaults and rapes happen."  this was in reference to people wanting to carry a gun on their person. 

I used personal assaults and rapes as  examples of bad things that some people may want to defend themselves against.  It was by no means meant as the particular reason that people should purchase guns, nor was it an argument that by increasing the number of guns in America, we would decrease rapes.  Nor was it an argument that the gun increases their safety.  It is an argument that people should have the right to reach their own conclusions about the risks associated with crime and protecting against such crime.

Everyone knows that rapes can only be reduced if women stop dressing like hoors.

 

 

 

[Firemans4Horn 18048]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Worry about whatever you want to. That doesn’t change the fact that the risk is tiny

Cool story. Maybe go put that on a sign and match around at the funerals of the 10 that died today. Westboro Baptist style. 
 

“The risk of getting murdered while buying your families dinner was small*. 2nd amendment or bust.

*I mean not that small but who gives a shit, right?”

[GW Hayduke 1953]

9 minutes ago, ultimaton said:

In 75% of the mass shootings in this country since '82, the shooter used a gun they purchased legally. That's sure a lot of shootings committed by "nobody".

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b9o6uDO18sLxBqPwl_Gh9bnhW-ev_dABH83M5Vb5L8o/edit#gid=0&range=L:L

The “responsible gun owner” and “legally owned gun” tropes are weak minded attempts to avoid responsibility. It is at the heart of virtually every right-wing political position

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

It’s bizarre how little we know about this shooter at this point. 

[Sawbonz 27556]

Just now, Firemans4Horn said:

Cool story. Maybe go put that on a sign and match around at the funerals of the 10 that died today. Westboro Baptist style. 
 

“The risk of getting murdered while buying your families dinner was small*. 2nd amendment or bust.

*I mean not that small but who gives a shit, right?”

Ah yes my pointing out the irrationality of your fear of gun violence means I’m a 2A gun nut. 

[Satchel 6938]

9 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Worry about whatever you want to. That doesn’t change the fact that the risk is tiny

I just don’t think a person should lose his/her life for picking the wrong time to go grocery shopping...and to think the best we can do is shrug our shoulders when ten people die needlessly is unconscionable.

[Bozo_Casanova 26452]

19 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

not overnight, but sure it's possible.  people evolve.  societies evolve.

do you think we're gonna have this type of gun violence in 100 years?  1000 years?  at some point, there will be a solution.  sucks that other countries will reach that solution centuries ahead of america, but that's just who we are.

there used to be no speed limits, no seatbelt laws, very few laws restricting drinking in cars, and smoking allowed on airplanes.  and that's just in the past ~40 years.

as to your other (non-quoted) point, yes, healthcare including mental health is a huge problem.  obviously.  but what's preferable:

-someone who seemed stable snapping and having access to a legal gun?

-someone who always seemed not quite as stable having access to a legal knife?

i'm old enough to remember a mass shooting where the only motive was that the guy was having a bad day.

Well ok, sure but the reality is more complicated than the tidy progress towards a brother tomorrow. People “who seemed stable snapping” isn’t really a thing. The mass shooting event (or suicide or homicide or kidnapping etc) isn’t really ever the first thing, it’s the terminal stage of a long process of people trying and failing to get help from a society that doesn’t give a fuck until there’s a body count. 
 

Red flag laws are a real reform that would make a real difference.  You should support them. 

[Sawbonz 27556]

1 minute ago, Satchel said:

I just don’t think a person should lose his/her life for picking the wrong time to go grocery shopping...and to think the best we can do is shrug our shoulders when ten people die needlessly is unconscionable.

Where did I say the best we can do is shrug our shoulders when 10 people die?  Do you think there is maybe something between moving your family to another country and shrugging your shoulders? Nah you’re right it’s the one or the other