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Posted
  On 9/2/2021 at 10:36 PM, Lobo said:

That's the worst fucking thing I've heard all day.  The disciplinary records of an elementary school student?  

You guys been watching "Runaway Jury" and thought Alex Jones would make a good Gene Hackman?  

What.  the.  Fuck?  

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Pure speculation, and egregious as fuck, but since this is a civil suit maybe they are preparing for the defense of a dollar value the prosecution is proposing?

It's horrible to think about.

Posted

Holy shit. So they're really going to try to project the value of the their lives based on kindergarten and first grade performance. Any lawyers associated with this, please do us a favor and walk off a cliff.

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Posted
  On 8/22/2021 at 10:12 PM, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

This young man "only" killed one person and severely wounded another before killing himself, but the video that accompanies this is so sad because its apparent that his mother knew that her son was in trouble and just didn't know what to do.

https://wwmt.com/news/local/police-confirm-south-haven-pier-shooter-plotted-failed-school-shooting-in-2018


I see people on Twitter saying "he should have been locked up for the full 28 years"  when he was 15 years old.  But, if you're a judge, is that something that you want to do?  You're basically taking the best/prime years of a man's life away for a crime that was never committed. No easy answers.

People are mentally ill.  Having guns so readily available makes the mentally ill dangerous to others.  The only rational response when this is the case is to carry a gun yourself. And, unfortunately, with so many guns in the country, putting the cow back into the barn is impossible. 

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That's a good post.  It's very hard for a parent, or anyone else for that matter, to know what to do with a mentally ill child or relative.  And, for better or worse, the law doesn't make it easy to put someone away, even if they have demonstrated violent tendencies.  Until they've committed a crime, at least.

Now, doing your damndest to remove their access to your guns or "family" guns is another thing altogether.  But it's still probably influenced by pollyannaish beliefs about the mental condition of the child or relative.  

Posted (edited)
  On 9/3/2021 at 1:59 PM, David Dennison said:

Well, that's what happens when you have to present evidence that mitigates damages.

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Yeah, it is the nature of the beast.  I think, though, that purely from a zealous advocacy point of view, you have to be very careful trying to use that evidence lest you turn the jury against you.

Subpoenaing it, or "discovering" it doesn't mean you're going to use it at trial, necessarily.

And, to some extent, I believe that trying to sue Remington for the acts of the criminal and insane using their products is a fairly crass move in and of itself.

 

It's kind of funny how most (certainly not all) folks seem to accept that criminal defendants of even the worst stripe deserve counsel and zealous advocacy in their defense, but when the same type of thing arises in a civil context, it's disgusting again.  Granted, defense in a civil case is not a civil right as it is in a criminal case, but the same basic notions apply.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
  On 9/3/2021 at 2:07 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, it is the nature of the beast.  I think, though, that purely from a zealous advocacy point of view, you have to be very careful trying to use that evidence lest you turn the jury against you.

Subpoenaing it, or "discovering" it doesn't mean you're going to use it at trial, necessarily.

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The super-cynic in me thinks they are just pumping billing hours...

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Posted
  On 9/3/2021 at 2:07 PM, TwiceHorn said:

And, to some extent, I believe that trying to sue Remington for the acts of the criminal and insane using their products is a fairly crass move in and of itself.

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Counterpoint:

bushmaster.jpg

Pushing this shit on forums where they know there are a bunch of fucking angry incels has to have some consequences at some point.   

Posted
  On 9/3/2021 at 1:17 PM, Lobo said:

If I'm Sandy Hook administrators, I'd comply and give them the report cards and attendance records up until whatever grade they were in December of 2012.  Then I'd staple a blank copy of their report card and attendance record for every single victim for the last 9 years.  I think it would be very powerful for a judge and jury to see, on paper, the years stolen from small children.

Jane Smith 

2011-12:  Missed 5 days (family vacation and flu).  3 A's, 2 B's, 1 C

2012-13:  Missed 103 days (shooting death).  4 A's, 2 C's (first semester only)

2013-14:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted. 

2014-15:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.

2015-16:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.

2016-17:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.

2017-18:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.  

2018-19:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.

2019-20:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted. 

2020-21:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.

Then do it for the rest of the kids.  Remington will obviously not like the gesture, but you could just shrug your shoulders and say, "We keep very thorough records of anyone under 18 in our district, especially when they haven't shown up to school in some time.  Whoops."  

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DNP - Deceased

Posted
  On 9/3/2021 at 1:17 PM, Lobo said:

If I'm Sandy Hook administrators, I'd comply and give them the report cards and attendance records up until whatever grade they were in December of 2012.  Then I'd staple a blank copy of their report card and attendance record for every single victim for the last 9 years.  I think it would be very powerful for a judge and jury to see, on paper, the years stolen from small children.

Jane Smith 

2011-12:  Missed 5 days (family vacation and flu).  3 A's, 2 B's, 1 C

2012-13:  Missed 103 days (shooting death).  4 A's, 2 C's (first semester only)

2013-14:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted. 

2014-15:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.

2015-16:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.

2016-17:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.

2017-18:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.  

2018-19:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.

2019-20:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted. 

2020-21:  Missed 186 days (shooting death).  No grades submitted.

Then do it for the rest of the kids.  Remington will obviously not like the gesture, but you could just shrug your shoulders and say, "We keep very thorough records of anyone under 18 in our district, especially when they haven't shown up to school in some time.  Whoops."  

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Seeing the news story this morning was horrific but sending a response like Lobo suggests is completely what the parent's lawyers should do.   And finish off the report with "And in conclusion, Remington and their lawyers can go fuck themselves."

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Posted
  On 9/2/2021 at 10:26 PM, Francisco 2.0 said:

Wasn't sure what thread to stick this in.  Whoever is counsel for Remington in this matter needs to get fucked.

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

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If it was just some retarded kids, are their lives really worth more than a few hundred dollars? Plus, they didn't have an ordinary child's cognitive ability to effectively flee, so it's kind of their fault that their dead.

Same goes for average students, if you think about it. What are they ever going to do for us? We'll go a thousand a head. Don't forget that this also about freedom!

Isn't there a hole we can throw the Sandy Hook doubters in? An inescapable one? Maybe keep bull dozers rumbling around so they're never sure if they'll be buried alive. That's a fair equivalency of what it must be to learn your child was gunned down at school today.

Posted

Yeah, I wrote it half sarcastically and as a cathartic way of lowering my rage after reading that news story.  But the more I think about it, I think if you just non-chalantly attach the blank attendance reports/grade reports to the K and/or 1st grade reports and just have them blank but for the school year and corresponding grade...I don't see how a judge would have any issue with that.  I get that there's always the grieving widow or parent who tries to express to a jury how much life their loved one had yet to live before they were unjustly taken and you gotta put a dollar amount to that narrative.  And it's almost impossible with such a young child to express that in dollars...you can try to paint a picture of the life they could have had.  But I would think flipping through 10 or 11 blank years of school transcripts for one dead kid after another for an hour would be pretty compelling.  As if to say, "We can't paint a picture of what their future earning power could be because there's no data.  Here, see for yourself."  

Just tell them "the way the school's reporting filter works, we entered the kids birthday and then it goes from today's date back to their Kindergarten year.  Most of them would be Seniors this year, so the report generated all docs for K-12.  Whoops."  

If one of y'all has a large following on Twitter or facebook, chop off my username and shit, and post this idea and see if it has legs.  I think it could be the most passive-aggressive fuck you in modern firearms litigation.  

We've got 500 lawyers on here.  Play six degrees of bacon on linkedin, odds are one of y'all went to law school with one of the plaintiffs attorneys, or practiced at a big firm with them back in your associate days.  Give 'em this idea if they haven't already thought of it.  If they end up using it though, tell them to tell Remington...it was Lobo.  I want them to know it was me /oleannatyrell 

Posted
  On 9/3/2021 at 2:07 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, it is the nature of the beast.  I think, though, that purely from a zealous advocacy point of view, you have to be very careful trying to use that evidence lest you turn the jury against you.

Subpoenaing it, or "discovering" it doesn't mean you're going to use it at trial, necessarily.

 

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This.  It was a bonehead move to ever subpoena those records.  There's little of substance that could be obtained and if you used those records at trial you would just inflame the jury anyway.

I've done quite a bit of civil defense work, and I've obtained similar records on occasion.  But in, for example, a case with a badly injured 17-year-old, who claims he would have gone to med school and made hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.  Not as to a first grader killed in circumstances that made international news.

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Posted
  On 9/3/2021 at 4:41 PM, lemonlime said:

This.  It was a bonehead move to ever subpoena those records.  There's little of substance that could be obtained and if you used those records at trial you would just inflame the jury anyway.

I've done quite a bit of civil defense work, and I've obtained similar records on occasion.  But in, for example, a case with a badly injured 17-year-old, who claims he would have gone to med school and made hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.  Not as to a first grader killed in circumstances that made international news.

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The optics are just awful, and rightfully so.

Posted (edited)
  On 9/3/2021 at 2:07 PM, TwiceHorn said:

And, to some extent, I believe that trying to sue Remington for the acts of the criminal and insane using their products is a fairly crass move in and of itself.

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Wait until blue states allow nutbars to sue any and all folks who had a hand in enabling any shooting. Texas abortion lunacy, but with shootings.

Edited by Willfully Horn
Edit
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Posted
  On 9/3/2021 at 2:07 PM, TwiceHorn said:

And, to some extent, I believe that trying to sue Remington for the acts of the criminal and insane using their products is a fairly crass move in and of itself.

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Well until this country pulls its head out of its ass and does something about gun violence, what other recourse is there?

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Posted
  On 9/3/2021 at 4:51 PM, Willfully Horn said:

Wait until blue states allow nutbars to sue any and all folks who had a hand in enabling any shooting. Texas abortion lunacy, but with shootings.

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But we should completely protect fetuses!

I mean,  not after they're born, but only pre-partum

Posted (edited)
  On 9/3/2021 at 4:47 PM, David Dennison said:

The optics are just awful, and rightfully so.

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All it is is dumbass lawyers doing dumbass shit and billing time. It’s horrendous but they know not what they do. Which doesn’t make it any better of course.

Edited by JimmyJames
Posted (edited)

Shot some kids, had a meth fueled shootout with the cops, surrendered but then tried to take a cops gun and he’s still alive. I wonder if he’s white?

Edited by 4th&Five
Posted

Too soon to discuss it, will obviously hamper hunting season if we engage in a dialogue.  

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
  On 9/23/2021 at 8:17 PM, 4th&Five said:

 

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16 year old shot to death in a drive by while waiting on the school bus yesterday in Louisville, and now this. I guess we’ll have to continue to the endure the inconvenience of being shot to death until we decide to value people more than guns.

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Posted
  On 9/23/2021 at 8:32 PM, Satchel said:

16 year old shot to death in a drive by while waiting on the school bus yesterday in Louisville, and now this. I guess we’ll have to continue to the endure the inconvenience of being shot to death until we decide to value people more than guns.

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don't you see? guns are the answer for everything 🙄

Posted
  On 9/23/2021 at 8:18 PM, Brisketexan said:

Don't rush to judgment.  This could just be a former HEB shopper transplanted to Tennessee who realizes that his grocery options SUCK.

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I said this exact thing to my wife when she mentioned it. GET OUT OF MY HEAD, BRISKET!!!

Posted
  On 9/23/2021 at 8:52 PM, Brisketexan said:

Sorry.  I got in there and looked around.  By the way, that stuff you were thinking about doing with your wife.....

giphy.gif

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Livestock and blackberry jam isn’t everyone’s idea of a hot time, but it keeps things humming in the bedroom. 
 

anyway…tragedy/guns bad/freedom/‘Murica/etc

Posted
  On 9/23/2021 at 8:58 PM, hookemATL said:

Livestock and blackberry jam isn’t everyone’s idea of a hot time, but it keeps things humming in the bedroom. 
 

anyway…tragedy/guns bad/freedom/‘Murica/etc

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Wait....that was BLACKberry jam?  Nevermind the fist bump.  Sicko.

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Posted

It’s folly to believe that with over 300 million guns in the country, people aren’t going to find creative ways to use them:

Philadelphia police released video of incident at Chipotle location on Saturday 

Video shows woman pull a gun on cashier just before 5pm as she waited to order

She pulled gun after being told that restaurant was closing due to staffing issues

Customers who waited were asked to put in their orders through the internet 

That's when police say armed woman flashed gun and demanded her food 

‘Somebody better give me my food,' armed woman is alleged to have said

The cashier immediately pressed the security button to alert the mall security, but the customer threatened "if someone doesn’t make her food she will be back and there will be a problem," police said.

The woman put the firearm back in her purse and another employee decided to fill her order in an effort to get her to leave, according to authorities.

 

Police said she gave her order and brandished the firearm again, demanding: "Somebody better give me my food."

Once the order was filled, police said the woman took the food and left the restaurant in an unknown direction. 

Anyone with information is asked to contact investigators at 215-868-8477 

Posted

I’d better watch my guns extra careful tonight to make sure they do t decide to shoot anyone…just kidding. I don’t have any…allegedly.

Posted
  On 9/24/2021 at 3:44 AM, Satchel said:

It’s folly to believe that with over 300 million guns in the country, people aren’t going to find creative ways to use them:

Philadelphia police released video of incident at Chipotle location on Saturday 

Video shows woman pull a gun on cashier just before 5pm as she waited to order

She pulled gun after being told that restaurant was closing due to staffing issues

Customers who waited were asked to put in their orders through the internet 

That's when police say armed woman flashed gun and demanded her food 

‘Somebody better give me my food,' armed woman is alleged to have said

The cashier immediately pressed the security button to alert the mall security, but the customer threatened "if someone doesn’t make her food she will be back and there will be a problem," police said.

The woman put the firearm back in her purse and another employee decided to fill her order in an effort to get her to leave, according to authorities.

 

Police said she gave her order and brandished the firearm again, demanding: "Somebody better give me my food."

Once the order was filled, police said the woman took the food and left the restaurant in an unknown direction. 

Anyone with information is asked to contact investigators at 215-868-8477 

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Did this happen at a Whammyburger?

Posted
  On 9/1/2021 at 6:01 PM, fattyflattie said:
He was planning to murder children, taking away the best years of their lives. At that point, why is his future regarded at all? I’m sure the judge gets great sleep knowing his slap on the wrist led to murder victims. 

Objecting to try a kid as an adult is not wrong. The problem is in the second phase where the kid should have had supervised medical intervention which might include removal from his household into a state run facility and/or juvenile detention.
Posted
  On 9/3/2021 at 2:07 PM, TwiceHorn said:

And, to some extent, I believe that trying to sue Remington for the acts of the criminal and insane using their products is a fairly crass move in and of itself.



Why? Do they not advocate and find lobbying groups that help write laws which allow for very few limitations on access to firearms?
Posted

Yes, but even questioning the former student for motive and weapons access...that would violate my ability to hunt later this Fall.  



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