Active shooter thread

[WhatTheBuck 28,783]

1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

If this is accurate, Dems are so ridiculously soft:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/12/politics/senate-gun-safety-agreement/index.html

"Sources involved in the talks said the agreement outline includes providing funding to incentivize states to implement "red flag" laws, an expansion of mental health services by growing a 10-state pilot program for behavioral health services to all 50 states, allowing juvenile records to be searched during background checks for those under 21 years of age, and funding for school security measures. It would also change the background check system to better crack down on criminals who evade that system by using smaller "hobbyists" to illegally buy guns.

"The agreement is not expected to include a number of provisions pushed by President Joe Biden and gun control advocates, namely a renewal of the so-called assault weapons ban and raising the age to purchase semi-automatic rifles from 18 to 21."

So what exactly is the compromise? It sounds like you are simply kneeling to the gun lobby. HOW THE HELL WOULD ANY OF THIS STOPPED UVALDE? Nineteen murdered 4th graders and the best you can so is "incentivizing" states to implement red flag laws? Gee, I wonder if Texas will be incentivized to do that?

You can't even get the age raised to 21. Just absolutely shameful. Have a backbone Dems.

It’s the Republicans who are blocking any meaningful change. They’re owned by the NRA. What exactly are the Dems supposed to do as long as Manchin and Sinema stand in the way of eliminating the filibuster?

I’ll hang up and listen. 

[Guest]

That's the same "woe is me" attitude that seems to be pervasive throughout the party.

For one, you start the day that the bipartisan talks began saying that raising the age limit from 18 to 21 is a cornerstone for any change. This point is non-negotiable. Every single quote, media interview, etc. starts with this. And if Republicans won't agree with that, then they are on the wrong side of the public opinion, and it is their fault if nothing happens and they are soft on mass shootings.

When John Cornyn comes out and says "not going to happen" in a tweet responding to gun reform in the middle of this negotiation, you make it clear that the Republican view of not having better regulations on these weapons is extremist and puts the public and our schools in danger. 

You especially come out against this "agreement" and say it wouldn't have stopped Uvalde or Buffalo, so you can't vote for it until it includes something more direct to get these weapons out of the hands of people who were law-abiding until they started shooting at a supermarket or an elementary school. 

Dems have public opinion on their side with this issue. Leverage it.

Edited June 12, 2022 by FirstTimeCaller

[TexArcher 37,825]

30 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

WSJ, tell me you've never smoked pot without telling me you've never smoked pot...

[Brisketexan 105,151]

^this (to Firsttimecaller’s post).
Quit playing for a fucking “loss with dignity”/aggy moral victory. Play to win. Play just half as brutal and cutthroat as the GQP plays, it would make a world of difference. Play like lives depend on it - because they do.

[Guest]

Just now, TexArcher said:

WSJ, tell me you've never smoked pot without telling me you've never smoked pot...

I dunno. I've seen the carnage to an order of Double Dave's peproni rolls caused by someone high on a marijuana cigarette.

[Captainant 27,678]

1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

WSJ, tell me you've never smoked pot without telling me you've never smoked pot...

Are you tellin me that WSJ may be full of a bunch of fuckin squares, man?

[Lurch 5,930]

That's the same "woe is me" attitude that seems to be pervasive throughout the party.
For one, you start the day that the bipartisan talks began saying that raising the age limit from 18 to 21 is a cornerstone for any change. This point is non-negotiable. Every single quote, media interview, etc. starts with this. And if Republicans won't agree with that, then they are on the wrong side of the public opinion, and it is their fault if nothing happens and they are soft on mass shootings.
When John Cornyn comes out and says "not going to happen" in a tweet responding to gun reform in the middle of this negotiation, you make it clear that the Republican view of not having better regulations on these weapons is extremist and puts the public and our schools in danger. 
You especially come out against this "agreement" and say it wouldn't have stopped Uvalde or Buffalo, so you can't vote for it until it includes something more direct to get these weapons out of the hands of people who were law-abiding until they started shooting at a supermarket or an elementary school. 
Dems have public opinion on their side with this issue. Leverage it.

Your strategy is to do nothing and blame the Republicans? Where have you been the last 30 years that strategy hasn’t worked?

[Brisketexan 105,151]

Your strategy is to do nothing and blame the Republicans? Where have you been the last 30 years that strategy hasn’t worked?

Change the strategy. Make the GQP OWN “doing nothing” as their plan. Fight to defeat the GQP by making them pants themselves, and actually take advantage of it. So that then we defeat them with votes, and can accomplish actual meaningful change.
There is no good faith negotiation with the GQP. There is no actual compromise with them. They’ve told us as much. Fine. That’s the game. Play it to win.

[South Austin 52,515]

There’s no winning. There’s no putting the toothpaste back into the tube. We are a country of mass manufacturing and ownership of and access to guns, with a political establishment that can’t and won’t change that. So now I just have to go on for the rest of my life hoping that I and my family and friends don’t die in a mass shooting, much like I hope we don’t die in a car accident.

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by South Austin

[RomaVicta 29,909]

45 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

WSJ, tell me you've never smoked pot without telling me you've never smoked pot...

Whenever I walk into room, a grocery story, a school, a Walmart, or stay in hotel room high above an open concert and smell some of that marijuana smoke, I chamber a round in my reliable AR and bend that trigger finger. I ain't letting them get me before I get them!

I'm sure there were autopsies on the mass shooters who died and likely blood tests of those who were captured. I'm sure they were all high on devil weed. 

I've never smoked, and I find this to be absurd on its face.

[South Austin 52,515]

Whenever I smoke pot, I get the munchies, laugh uncontrollably, and have the urge to commit a mass shooting.

[Lurch 5,930]

Change the strategy. Make the GQP OWN “doing nothing” as their plan. Fight to defeat the GQP by making them pants themselves, and actually take advantage of it. So that then we defeat them with votes, and can accomplish actual meaningful change.
There is no good faith negotiation with the GQP. There is no actual compromise with them. They’ve told us as much. Fine. That’s the game. Play it to win.

They DO own “doing nothing”. They’re quite outspoken about it. They get re-elected because of it. Pinning it on them **even more** (somehow?) when the whole country knows damn well who is responsible is just buying advertising for them.

Take any win we can get. Maybe get more in 5 years when we’ll have another few dozen school shootings added to the list. Vote until we have enough for real change. That’s it. That’s the only viable strategy.

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

I'm reminded of Sydney Ellen Wade....

Well then, congratulations. It's only taken you 20 years to put together gun control legislation that has no hope of preventing gun related crime.

[Snake Diggity 4,625]

Ok, so here’s how it shook out on the 5 things most sane people think are most needed in order to prevent future mass shootings :

Raising age limit to 21 (compromised to “enhanced review” process for 18-21)

More thorough background checks (nope)

AR/high capacity restrictions/ban (nope)

Red flag laws (compromised to funding to “encourage” states to enact red flag laws)

Remove immunity of gun manufacturers (nope)

I personally think all guns should require licensing and registration.  Not sure why that doesn’t seem to be more popular.  Same for safe storage laws.

Prediction: a shitload more little kids are gonna get shot in the face over the next 10-15 years, at which point we will FINALLY get gun control.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Snake Diggity

[Guest]

This guy, acting like it's a major victory. The comments are a mix of "Thank you! It's not the best, but thank you for getting something done!" and "This has nothing to stop mass shootings. You just allowed Republicans to say they did something without having to actually make any sort of compromises. Is this serious?"
 

The billions for mental health clinics sounds good. The rest just seems like absolute window dressing. If this passed today, tomorrow there would still be nothing that stopped Uvalde from happening all over again. And in the meantime, they've neutered any sort of gun reform at least until the next horrific mass shooting. And given what we've seen, it will have to be Uvalde/Newtown level to spur any action. Las Vegas -- the largest mass shooting of all time with enough ammo and guns to supply a well-regulated militia -- resulted in *checks notes* bumpstocks getting banned.

So to finally put an end to this shit, another classroom of elementary school students will have to be shot. How on earth can you call this a win for public safety? It's all stuff that should just be the footnotes of any sort of real change.
 

[Guest]

Seriously, would you take this bill to the family of a kid killed in Uvalde and say "this is proof that your child didn't die in vain?" Hell no. It would be a damn insult to them. 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Ok, so here’s how it shook out on the 5 things most sane people think are most needed in order to prevent future mass shootings :

Raising age limit to 21 (compromised to “enhanced review” process for 18-21)

More thorough background checks (nope)

AR/high capacity restrictions/ban (nope)

Red flag laws (compromised to funding to “encourage” states to enact red flag laws)

Remove immunity of gun manufacturers (nope)

I personally think all guns should require licensing and registration.  Not sure why that doesn’t seem to be more popular.  Same for safe storage laws.

Prediction: a shitload more little kids are gonna get shot in the face over the next 10-15 years, at which point we will FINALLY get gun control.

Fucking nailed it. "It's a mental health issue, not a gun issue" won in a 70-3 route. 

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

10 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

This guy, acting like it's a major victory. The comments are a mix of "Thank you! It's not the best, but thank you for getting something done!" and "This has nothing to stop mass shootings. You just allowed Republicans to say they did something without having to actually make any sort of compromises. Is this serious?"
 

The billions for mental health clinics sounds good. The rest just seems like absolute window dressing. If this passed today, tomorrow there would still be nothing that stopped Uvalde from happening all over again. And in the meantime, they've neutered any sort of gun reform at least until the next horrific mass shooting. And given what we've seen, it will have to be Uvalde/Newtown level to spur any action. Las Vegas -- the largest mass shooting of all time with enough ammo and guns to supply a well-regulated militia -- resulted in *checks notes* bumpstocks getting banned.

So to finally put an end to this shit, another classroom of elementary school students will have to be shot. How on earth can you call this a win for public safety? It's all stuff that should just be the footnotes of any sort of real change.
 

There's a lot of money going to infrastructure, but no teeth in the bill.  Money going to community mental health clinics is great, but it's not going to move the needle on guns.  Other than that, it's a few loophole closings which won't make a huge dent but should have some minor reduction and are laudable.  Additionally, infrastructure money for the states that want to have red flag laws so that money isn't the excuse.  Now, if your state doesn't have one any right now, they're probably not getting any soon..... you'll need at least 50 more kids dead before your politicians get off their ass.

Again, money is going towards something worthwhile, that's a win, but this won't actually have any major influence on gun crimes, responsible gun ownership, or having a more thorough, thoughtful, and consistent gun policy in the country.  

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

 

[softlynow 1,816]

As a criminal defense lawyer, I welcome the increased mental health funding. It will really help with low-level assaultive, property and drug-related crime. It won’t prevent many mass shootings, though. 

[wildcat09 29,354]

49 minutes ago, Lurch said:

They DO own “doing nothing”. They’re quite outspoken about it. They get re-elected because of it. Pinning it on them **even more** (somehow?) when the whole country knows damn well who is responsible is just buying advertising for them.

Take any win we can get. Maybe get more in 5 years when we’ll have another few dozen school shootings added to the list. Vote until we have enough for real change. That’s it. That’s the only viable strategy.

The GOP doesn't own "doing nothing" in the eyes of most marginal voters. Everything is constantly presented by the media as Washington disfunction, rather than Republican obstruction and sabotage, and that's enabled by a Democratic party that doesn't constantly message otherwise. Changing Dem messaging wouldn't be a quick fix, but it's necessary to get the media to cover anything accurately, which over the long term would help sway some public opinion.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

Spoiler: Republican states will elect to forego federal funds to implement red flag laws. 
 

But thanks for the mental health funding. It actually will save lives (mostly the poor and homeless struggling with mental illness. The people that do mass shootings usually have abundant access to mental health resources)

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,872]

something is better than nothing. these are the times we live in. best get used to it

[Brisketexan 105,151]

something is better than nothing. these are the times we live in. best get used to it

You’re right. I mean, I’m SURE the new arrangement of the deck chairs will keep the titanic from sinking.

[Lurch 5,930]

You’re right. I mean, I’m SURE the new arrangement of the deck chairs will keep the titanic from sinking.

It won’t, but at least there’s one more lifeboat available

[Brisketexan 105,151]

It won’t, but at least there’s one more lifeboat available

And just like you’d expect, it will be for the rich and powerful. Fuck people like the (“probably not even actual”) Americans in Uvalde.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

 

Why are they wearing camo? And why that pattern camo? 

[TexPx 2,323]

Spoiler: Republican states will elect to forego federal funds to implement red flag laws. 
 
But thanks for the mental health funding. It actually will save lives (mostly the poor and homeless struggling with mental illness. The people that do mass shootings usually have abundant access to mental health resources)

Abbott will take it and quietly divert it to fund his border initiative.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,194]

4 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

And if Republicans won't agree with that, then they are on the wrong side of the public opinion, and it is their fault if nothing happens and they are soft on mass shootings.

GQP has been on the wrong side of mass shootings since there were mass shootings. Tell me how many fucks it has mattered over the last 30 years.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

4 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

That's the same "woe is me" attitude that seems to be pervasive throughout the party.

For one, you start the day that the bipartisan talks began saying that raising the age limit from 18 to 21 is a cornerstone for any change. This point is non-negotiable. Every single quote, media interview, etc. starts with this. And if Republicans won't agree with that, then they are on the wrong side of the public opinion, and it is their fault if nothing happens and they are soft on mass shootings.

When John Cornyn comes out and says "not going to happen" in a tweet responding to gun reform in the middle of this negotiation, you make it clear that the Republican view of not having better regulations on these weapons is extremist and puts the public and our schools in danger. 

You especially come out against this "agreement" and say it wouldn't have stopped Uvalde or Buffalo, so you can't vote for it until it includes something more direct to get these weapons out of the hands of people who were law-abiding until they started shooting at a supermarket or an elementary school. 

Dems have public opinion on their side with this issue. Leverage it.

i'm only quoting one of your posts, but all of them are accurate.  you're right.  it's common sense and it's frustrating.  

but here's the problem - when dems stumble around to get anything meaningful passed, and then go to the media to complain and finger point, the republicans win.  and i don't mean win in the sense that they stopped legislation, i mean win in the sense that getting dems to complain is their only agenda.

as for having public opinion on their side - this is the case with many issues, and the minority is able to rule because our system is dysfunctional as fuck.  we have 1/3 of this country obstructing the other 2/3 (senate representation).  they know they can do whatever they want because that's what they're already doing and nobody can stop them.

a president who got impeached twice is favored to run again and win.  his followers stormed the capitol and half of the country is like uh huh, yawn.  they spent months trying to overturn a fair election and the right is like, "yeah, but they didn't, so it's fine".

maniacs are using guns to shoot up schools and people are saying it feels different this time.  i assure you, it only feels that way.

[Satchel 6,938]

3 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

This guy, acting like it's a major victory. The comments are a mix of "Thank you! It's not the best, but thank you for getting something done!" and "This has nothing to stop mass shootings. You just allowed Republicans to say they did something without having to actually make any sort of compromises. Is this serious?"
 

The billions for mental health clinics sounds good. The rest just seems like absolute window dressing. If this passed today, tomorrow there would still be nothing that stopped Uvalde from happening all over again. And in the meantime, they've neutered any sort of gun reform at least until the next horrific mass shooting. And given what we've seen, it will have to be Uvalde/Newtown level to spur any action. Las Vegas -- the largest mass shooting of all time with enough ammo and guns to supply a well-regulated militia -- resulted in *checks notes* bumpstocks getting banned.

So to finally put an end to this shit, another classroom of elementary school students will have to be shot. How on earth can you call this a win for public safety? It's all stuff that should just be the footnotes of any sort of real change.
 

The gun lobby still gets the millions made from assault weapons sold to 18-21 year olds. Find comfort in the fact that we still have a line item in the budget that pays for razing and replacing schools wherein many more children will be murdered. We’re thinking ahead.

[DDD Dad 14,339]

On 6/10/2022 at 4:15 PM, Anastasis said:

That is obvious. 

 

 

[Grade of D as in David 13,253]

4 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

Ok, so here’s how it shook out on the 5 things most sane people think are most needed in order to prevent future mass shootings :

Raising age limit to 21 (compromised to “enhanced review” process for 18-21)

More thorough background checks (nope)

AR/high capacity restrictions/ban (nope)

Red flag laws (compromised to funding to “encourage” states to enact red flag laws)

Remove immunity of gun manufacturers (nope)

I personally think all guns should require licensing and registration.  Not sure why that doesn’t seem to be more popular.  Same for safe storage laws.

Prediction: a shitload more little kids are gonna get shot in the face over the next 10-15 years, at which point we will FINALLY get gun control.

Let's treat cars like guns. No license required, no more registration or inspection, no more insurance. Let's get all of that shit repealed. As we saw in the Nice attack a few years ago and here in Charlottesville automobiles can be used as weapons. Therefore, all of the restrictions I mentioned earlier infringe on my second amendment right to bear arms.

 

Also while we're at it, lower the drinking and smoking age to 18. If they are able to buy a gun they should at least have the ability to buy a beer.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Grade of D as in David

[fattyflattie 4,639]

3 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

No license required, no more registration or inspection, no more insurance.

We have this.  We call it Houston. 

[Js1 85,353]

23 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

If this is accurate, Dems are so ridiculously soft:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/12/politics/senate-gun-safety-agreement/index.html

Do not be a "WHY NOT DONE" voter.  Be smarter than that. 

This is the best gun control legislation Dems are going to get under a 48/50/2 Senate.

Work your ass off to get Kelly, Hassan, Warnock and Cortez Masto re-elected and get Beasley, Fetterman and whoever wins the Wisconsin Dem primary elected.  52-53 Dems gets the filibuster nuked because Manchin and Sinema can fuck right off. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Js1

[DigglerontheHoof 21,202]

17 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Why are they wearing camo? And why that pattern camo? 

Because they're cowardly morons?

[Firemans4Horn 18,061]

 

[tchookem 3,900]

 

Looks like we'll have to wait until some of the parents take them to court with a civil suit. I'm sure it'll all be "accidentally" deleted by then.

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Do not be a "WHY NOT DONE" voter.  Be smarter than that. 

This is the best gun control legislation Dems are going to get under a 48/50/2 Senate.

Work your ass off to get Kelly, Hassan, Warnock and Cortez Masto re-elected and get Beasley, Fetterman and whoever wins the Wisconsin Dem primary elected.  52-53 Dems gets the filibuster nuked because Manchin and Sinema can fuck right off. 

It's not a 48/50/2 Senate. It's a 51/50 Senate. You don't get to say some people are in your party, but they aren't in your party.

And the party can have some fight in them and not just say "aw, shucks." Just look at them crowing  The fact that anyone is celebrating this agreement as some sort of milestone is gross. It's not. It's a loss for a public that is tired of mass shootings and does nothing to stop them. And you can watch and see that it's the only thing that will get done until there is a shooting more horrific than Newtown or Uvalde. In other words, more classrooms are going to have to get shot up before there is even another chance of doing something.

Don't get me wrong. The blame lays at the feet of the Republican party. But Dems are being spineless on this.

And yes, there needs to be a larger Dem majority.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by FirstTimeCaller

[jimmyjazz 45,963]

The fact that Sinema and Manchin are two of the cosigners is significant.  They're not negating any of the ten R senators.

[fattyflattie 4,639]

27 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The fact that Sinema and Manchin are two of the cosigners is significant.  They're not negating any of the ten R senators.

Correct. They are still Democratic senators. 

[tchookem 3,900]

Correct. They are still Democratic senators. 

[ img]Thor meme[/ img]

[Covri 6,249]

Different reports indicate the guy entered the building, but cops were able to shoot him before doing any harm to the kids. May have shot at the cops.

 

[Lurch 5,930]

 

[Hate 20,108]

1 hour ago, Covri said:

Different reports indicate the guy entered the building, but cops were able to shoot him before doing any harm to the kids. May have shot at the cops.

 

I'm curios to see what happened here.  I saw a report that police responded within two minutes, but nobody got shot during that time? 

[henrygandorf 29,191]

3 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Just look at them crowing  The fact that anyone is celebrating this agreement as some sort of milestone is gross. It's not. It's a loss for a public that is tired of mass shootings and does nothing to stop them.

passing legislation is better than not passing legislation.  not getting shit passed looks bad and hurts at the ballot box.  passing shitty legislation is probably closer to a push, but may help a little at the ballot box.  yes, a lot of it is cosmetic and performative, but if you don't get elected, it doesn't matter how good your ideas are.

as for the public, yes, some are outraged and most are sad.  but they are likely the same people who are always outraged or sad.  i have seen no evidence that the gop (lawmakers or voters) have softened on their positions due to the shootings.  even worse, it seems many have become more dug in. 

a month ago, i was not seeing dozens of "shall not be infringed upon" tweets flooding my feed (a feed which follows zero republicans).  i didn't hear a peep about mental illness, video games, weed violence, or soft targeted school door nonsense.

as we saw during all the "how do i talk to my brainwashed family members about trump" threads, telling them they're wrong only makes things worse.  trying to change their minds only reinforces their position in their minds, and continues their attachment to their nonsensical beliefs.  the team sports, the finger pointing, the complicity of the media - you have to stop thinking like we live in a pre-trump world. 

things are fucked, and unfucking them is a colossal task. 

[chainsaw 9,869]

1 hour ago, Covri said:

Different reports indicate the guy entered the building, but cops were able to shoot him before doing any harm to the kids. May have shot at the cops.

 

This reeks of divorce court spillover drama

[Brisketexan 105,151]

10 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

as we saw during all the "how do i talk to my brainwashed family members about trump" threads, telling them they're wrong only makes things worse.  trying to change their minds only reinforces their position in their minds, and continues their attachment to their nonsensical beliefs.  the team sports, the finger pointing, the complicity of the media - you have to stop thinking like we live in a pre-trump world. 

things are fucked, and unfucking them is a colossal task. 

BINGO.

We live in a completely post-rational thought (frankly, it's ANTI-rational thought) world.  Logic and reason only make them angry.  Reminding them that even that commie Scalia said firearms could be regulated only results in a "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!" rant, with no support at all.

We are governed by a cadre of toddlers in a temper tantrum, with even less capacity for acting reasonably.  There's no unfucking this.