Active shooter thread

[Biff Tannen 45750]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

it's not, but in many ways you are cutting off the strongest and best argument that's available, which is that the AR-15, specifically, is a fundamentally unsafe and problematic product. Individual products get take off the market all the time.

You really think this will matter?  It wouldn't matter if these shootings were being done with bazookas.  No common sense regulation of actual guns whatsoever will be passed by congress.  Toothpaste is out of the tube. 

[DalTxHornFan 3119]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

How weird, to see our system working the way it's designed to work. 

Huh?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33900]

2 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Huh?

The system is designed to fail, therefore it is working exactly as intentioned.

[mdmost 43059]

17 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

Freedom ain't free I suppose. Enjoy your toys, fuckwads.

 

But hey, that kid will understand one day that we need these guns to be really easy to buy...you know for hunting and self-defense purposes. If we could just solve the massive and complex mental health issue, this would all go away. It has nothing to do with our culture of violence and easy means to try to solve our problems with violence. 

[Sbbruin 21899]

20 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

Freedom ain't free I suppose. Enjoy your toys, fuckwads.

 

Gutted.

[DalTxHornFan 3119]

Just now, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

The system is designed to fail, therefore it is working exactly as intentioned.

Illinois has had a red flag gun seizure law in effect for several years.

[South Austin 52635]

25 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

Freedom ain't free I suppose. Enjoy your toys, fuckwads.

 

Fuck you, Ted Cruz, John Cornyn, Greg Abbott, etc.

[Bozo_Casanova 26580]

8 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Illinois has had a red flag gun seizure law in effect for several years.

Yes, but in our system a person with a screw loose is not treated with until they are an imminent danger to themselves or others. 

[Satchel 6949]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

How many people have they killed?  I find it hard to believe you could own guns for 50 years, and none of them just up and killed someone.  You must be lying.   Guns are the problem, right?  Must just be you, me, and every single person I know who got lucky and our guns never snuck out the house and killed someone.  Just cosmic amounts of statistical odds there that we'd both have a bunch of guns, for a bunch of years, and none of them went and killed somebody!  I'm going to buy a lotto ticket on the way home. 

It’s pretty clear guns don’t just up and kill people. In fact, it’s the most beaten to death talking point of gun idolizers. There does appear to be unmistakable reticence about what guns actually do at all of the mass murders. How would you describe what they do?

[Brisketexan 105457]

17 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

How weird, to see our system working the way it's designed to work. 

 

14 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Huh?

 

11 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

The system is designed to fail, therefore it is working exactly as intentioned.

 

8 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Illinois has had a red flag gun seizure law in effect for several years.

All on-point.  Illinois allows such an action by a family member or a member of law enforcement.

Our system failed.  Completely.  Again.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  I'm sure it was because "he's a good kid, from a good family."

Which is why more black-letter regulations -- something as simple as setting an age limit of 25 to acquire such a weapon -- are the most effective mechanism.

[Sbbruin 21899]

4 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Fuck you, Ted Cruz, John Cornyn, Greg Abbott, etc.

Of course I don't want another child lost to this madness, but if this happens to one of their children or grandchildren, how tightly will they cling to the gun-toting beliefs?  

[jimmyjazz 46268]

21 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

it's not, but in many ways you are cutting off the strongest and best argument that's available, which is that the AR-15, specifically, is a fundamentally unsafe and problematic product. Individual products get take off the market all the time.

How am I doing that?  Serious question.

[Surly Bevo 25216]

Yee haw by god America is the greatest country in the history of earth

I’m so scared of the government and my fellow citizens of the greatest country on earth that I need to own a weapon that sends 30 downrange in 15 seconds.

[Chad Fuck 17817]

3 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Of course I don't want another child lost to this madness, but if this happens to one of their children or grandchildren, how tightly will they cling to the gun-toting beliefs?  

They will be replaced by someone who will. 

When your party is built on a lack of empathy, they aren't hard to find.  Someone will step right up to the mic and say, "Well, it's too bad Senator X's kid got shot, but 2nd Amendment is more important than anything or anyone.  Senator X was showing some RINO softness around his well funded edges anyhow.  So it's time to move on.  Who's with me?"  [GQP crowd roars]

[Sawbonz 27623]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Understanding why they use the AR15 to the exclusion of all the others is really extremely important

Why? Are you suggesting that but for the availability of that specific firearm those shooters would not have gone on sprees?

[Dahobbs 17703]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

 

All on-point.  Illinois allows such an action by a family member or a member of law enforcement.

Our system failed.  Completely.  Again.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  I'm sure it was because "he's a good kid, from a good family."

Which is why more black-letter regulations -- something as simple as setting an age limit of 25 to acquire such a weapon -- are the most effective mechanism.

Partially correct. The real problem is ease of enforcement. Yes, making a black letter laws make it easier to enforce. But what is really critical is the location and method of enforcement. Right now we have a bunch of laws that essentially require self-enforcement by the would be mass-shooter. Calls for gun safety reform are then predictably met with cries of "just enforce the laws we already have." Instead, we need laws that regulate conduct at choke points like the point of manufacturer and point of sale. That would make them much more practical to monitor and enforce. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Dahobbs

[Satchel 6949]

24 minutes ago, mdmost said:

But hey, that kid will understand one day that we need these guns to be really easy to buy...you know for hunting and self-defense purposes. If we could just solve the massive and complex mental health issue, this would all go away. It has nothing to do with our culture of violence and easy means to try to solve our problems with violence. 

Yes, and his therapists must routinely remind him that having to suffer the inconvenience of having both his parents murdered at a celebration of freedom parade is how we choose to pursue life, liberty and happiness in America.

[DalTxHornFan 3119]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Why? Are you suggesting that but for the availability of that specific firearm those shooters would not have gone on sprees?

Agreed.  There are a number of semi-automatic platforms out there, but you don't have to Google very far to understand why the AR-15 is a popular platform.

Simple design.  Reliable.  Easy to maintain.  Interchangeable parts.

We use them on hogs out at my deer lease.

[David Dennison 18951]

Just now, DalTxHornFan said:

Agreed.  There are a number of semi-automatic platforms out there, but you don't have to Google very far to understand why the AR-15 is a popular platform.

Simple design.  Reliable.  Easy to maintain.  Interchangeable parts.

We use them on hogs out at my deer lease.

Doesn't everyone?

[Biff Tannen 45750]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Doesn't everyone?

I know I do.  I take down an army of hogs every weekend.  They are the real threat here.

[4th&Five 41603]

They can take your knives and swords but not your ducking guns!

 

[Pods 7587]

6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I know I do.  I take down an army of hogs every weekend.  They are the real threat here.

I'm so tired of having to shoot 30-50 of them in my yard. 

[Sbbruin 21899]

23 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

They will be replaced by someone who will. 

When your party is built on a lack of empathy, they aren't hard to find.  Someone will step right up to the mic and say, "Well, it's too bad Senator X's kid got shot, but 2nd Amendment is more important than anything or anyone.  Senator X was showing some RINO softness around his well funded edges anyhow.  So it's time to move on.  Who's with me?"  [GQP crowd roars]

The fact that there is no sarcasm in this (nor should there be) is such a sad commentary on where we are.

[Sbbruin 21899]

2 minutes ago, Pods said:

I'm so tired of having to shoot 30-50 of them in my yard. 

In under a minute.  Because the hold cocking and reloading a standard rifle is such a hassle.

[Sbbruin 21899]

27 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Yee haw by god America is the greatest country in the history of earth

I’m so scared of the government and my fellow citizens of the greatest country on earth that I need to own a weapon that sends 30 downrange in 15 seconds.

Don't forget about keeping the King of England out of your face.

[Pods 7587]

I'll reiterate something I said elsewhere. If the hog problem is really that bad, and I think it is, that's a government problem that the Lege should be working to solve, not leaving it to individual land owners to deal with it piecemeal. Take the money that Abbott is wasting on his pointless border stunts and spend it fixing the fucking hog problem, or the electric grid problems, or the mental health care crisis in Texas, or anything else that actually has some value aside from boosting Abbott 0.3%, leaving him tied with "Someone Else" in the Presidential primary polls. 

[Sbbruin 21899]

1 hour ago, DalTxHornFan said:

It looks like Highland Park parade event may have been another one of those "Known Wolf" attacks.

BREAKING: Police Were Told In 2019 That Parade Shooter Vowed To ‘Kill Everyone,’ Did Not Arrest Him

https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-police-were-told-in-2019-that-parade-shooter-vowed-to-kill-everyone-did-not-arrest-him

These prior instances were not enough to get him flagged from legally purchasing an assault rifle.  Who here is defending that right?

[DalTxHornFan 3119]

1 minute ago, Pods said:

I'll reiterate something I said elsewhere. If the hog problem is really that bad, and I think it is, that's a government problem that the Lege should be working to solve, not leaving it to individual land owners to deal with it piecemeal. Take the money that Abbott is wasting on his pointless border stunts and spend it fixing the fucking hog problem, or the electric grid problems, or the mental health care crisis in Texas, or anything else that actually has some value aside from boosting Abbott 0.3%, leaving him tied with "Someone Else" in the Presidential primary polls. 

That is a dumb take. Private property rights, anyone?  The gubmint has already done what it needs to do on hogs -- open season with no restrictions.  Kill them day and night.  Trap 'em.  Hunt from helicopters.  Whatever it takes.

[lemonlime 5503]

Interesting that the same people who think every American has the right to concealed carry an AR-15, also thinks the solution is to throw people in prison for a vague threat to "kill everyone," presumably without any jury trial or evidence of an actual criminal statute that was violated.

[Woodrow Call 494]

1 hour ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

If guns aren't the problem, why did Wyatt Earp make Tombstone a gun free zone? The wild fucking west had better gun regulations than we do with much higher population densities. 

There's an essay in this book about that very subject titled, "The Cattle Towns Adjust to Violence." Clearly indicates gun control works. 

 

 

[DalTxHornFan 3119]

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

These prior instances were not enough to get him flagged from legally purchasing an assault rifle.  Who here is defending that right?

My point is that the red flag law that Illinois has didn't work in this instance.  While I believe that red flag laws are subject to abuse by spurned spouses and GF's and such, I think that it is nuts that it didn't work in this case.

[Brisketexan 105457]

39 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

They will be replaced by someone who will. 

When your party is built on a lack of empathy, they aren't hard to find.  Someone will step right up to the mic and say, "Well, it's too bad Senator X's kid got shot, but 2nd Amendment is more important than anything or anyone.  Senator X was showing some RINO softness around his well funded edges anyhow.  So it's time to move on.  Who's with me?"  [GQP crowd roars]

Chad gets it.  That is a stone-cold lock of how it would go.

30 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Partially correct. The real problem is ease of enforcement. Yes, making a black letter laws make it easier to enforce. But what is really critical is the location and method of enforcement. Right now we have a bunch of laws that essentially require self-enforcement by the would be mass-shooter. Calls for gun safety reform are then predictably met with cries of "just enforce the laws we already have." Instead, we need laws that regulate conduct at choke points like the point of manufacturer and point of sale. That would make them much more practical to monitor and enforce. 

Much better-said than my post -- that was what I was trying to convey, but quite poorly.

25 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

They can take your knives and swords but not your ducking guns!

 

As I understand (maybe I'm wrong), the gun was a relatively recent acquisition?  Of course, that speaks to the red flag law being f'n useless if it doesn't result in a bar on sales to the subject person.  "Cool, I got a red flag order against Psycho Murdery Guy, and the police confiscated his guns.  Wait, he just went out the door, drove to the nearest gun shop, and bought replacement guns?  Then what's the fucking point?"

[Woodrow Call 494]

47 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Of course I don't want another child lost to this madness, but if this happens to one of their children or grandchildren, how tightly will they cling to the gun-toting beliefs?  

I think about this a lot. If they would change their minds if the violence hit too close to home. I honestly don't believe they would. They're that deranged. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Seasick Sailor said:

Freedom ain't free I suppose. Enjoy your toys, fuckwads.

 

At a fucking July 4th parade. 

I'm logging off for a bit for my mental health.

[Brisketexan 105457]

2 minutes ago, Woodrow Call said:

There's an essay in this book about that very subject titled, "The Cattle Towns Adjust to Violence." Clearly indicates gun control works. 

 

 

See, but what you have to understand is that people like Wyatt Earp were commie pussy libtard gun grabbers who hate America and freedom and were working for George Soros to put us under One World government with microchips where they inject the fake vaccine because plandemic.

DO THE RESEARCH, SHEEPLE!

[Born to Run 6569]

Vein.
Is English your first language?

Future Yacht owners dont need to spell for shit though.

[Incredulity 11683]

12 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Interesting that the same people who think every American has the right to concealed carry an AR-15, also thinks the solution is to throw people in prison for a vague threat to "kill everyone," presumably without any jury trial or evidence of an actual criminal statute that was violated.

Seems diametrically opposed here.

[DalTxHornFan 3119]

8 minutes ago, Woodrow Call said:

I think about this a lot. If they would change their minds if the violence hit too close to home. I honestly don't believe they would. They're that deranged. 

I lost my grandmother to a drunk driver.  I have never called for bans of cars or alcohol.  I am very much in favor of punishment to those that use either of those irresponsibly.  Especially in conjunction with those two.

Edited July 5, 2022 by DalTxHornFan

[Bozo_Casanova 26580]

52 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

How am I doing that?  Serious question.

Because it’s not at all clear that those other platforms are part of the problem. 

48 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Why? Are you suggesting that but for the availability of that specific firearm those shooters would not have gone on sprees?

That’s not really knowable, but the data seem to suggest that, and mass shooters  sure do seem to prefer the AR15 to the exclusion of everything else, and asserting that they would choose something else outside that ecosystem seems like another version of the “gun control won’t work because crazy people will just use ____ instead.”

[Woodrow Call 494]

3 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I lost my grandmother to a drunk driver.  I have never called for bans of cars or alcohol.  I am very much in favor of punishment to those that use either of those irresponsibly.  Especially in conjunction with those two.

I'm sorry you lost your grandmother to such irresponsible behavior, but this is a false equivalency. 

[Pods 7587]

22 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

That is a dumb take. Private property rights, anyone?  The gubmint has already done what it needs to do on hogs -- open season with no restrictions.  Kill them day and night.  Trap 'em.  Hunt from helicopters.  Whatever it takes.

Speaking of dumb takes... Nothing I said had anything to do with private property rights and you are completely wrong on hunting hogs. Whatever it takes, except actually being informed I guess.  

I'm not going to distract the thread further after this post, but hunting pigs piecemeal actually makes the problem worse by widely dispersing the ones that get away. These breed and form new sounders in their new location.

Like most things they do, the Lege has made the 100% wrong decision, and made the problem worse. Texas isn't going to change it, because hog hunting makes a lot of money for some connected folks.

https://www.popsci.com/feral-pig-problem/

https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/texas-has-a-feral-hog-problem-hunting-them-makes-it-worse/ 

Quote

“If we were to just go out and hunt them, I liken it to taking a dandelion and blowing on it. You’ve just spread the infestation all across your yard,” said Mike Wefer, wildlife division chief for the Illinois Department of Natural Resources.

Feral hogs move in groups called sounders. The best way to get rid of them is by dispatching the entire sounder at once. This can be accomplished with a corral trap, which surrounds the entire sounder. Shooting them from a helicopter or a hot air balloon is also OK if you can kill the whole group at once.

But if you just shoot one, the rest scatter.

“Now you’ve got little pockets everywhere else, makes them harder to track them down, and creates new points where they can gain a foothold and start spreading again,” said Wefer.

The only reasonable solution involves large scale corral trapping as many entire sounders as we can. A competent government would see that this is a state level problem and it needs a state level solution. The state should be doing it directly and also providing free traps and bounties for the public to do so as well. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Pods

[HenryJames 66189]

1 hour ago, Seasick Sailor said:

Freedom ain't free I suppose. Enjoy your toys, fuckwads.

 

Failed state.

[Sbbruin 21899]

2 minutes ago, Woodrow Call said:

I'm sorry you lost your grandmother to such irresponsible behavior, but this is a false equivalency. 

x1000.  Neither cars nor alcohol weren't designed for the specific purpose of killing.  Stupid, stupid analogy.  But deep down, you knew that.

[Bozo_Casanova 26580]

20 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Interesting that the same people who think every American has the right to concealed carry an AR-15, also thinks the solution is to throw people in prison for a vague threat to "kill everyone," presumably without any jury trial or evidence of an actual criminal statute that was violated.

Don’t know if that’s directed at me, but I’ve got a 20+ year record on these boards of saying it should be easier to execute an involuntary commitment for mental illness as a result of my inability to get my mother into care before her situation took her life.
Who knows, we might wind up helping people?

 

[jimmyjazz 46268]

8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Because it’s not at all clear that those other platforms are part of the problem. 

Wait, what?  I've been getting blasted for focusing on the AR-15, the thrust of my focus being its performance metrics, and now I'm getting shit for saying anything similar should be lumped in the same group of banned weapons?

Am I on drugs?

[Sawbonz 27623]

11 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Because it’s not at all clear that those other platforms are part of the problem. 

That’s not really knowable, but the data seem to suggest that, and mass shooters  sure do seem to prefer the AR15 to the exclusion of everything else, and asserting that they would choose something else outside that ecosystem seems like another version of the “gun control won’t work because crazy people will just use ____ instead.”

Hmm not sure how you get that from my posts. I specifically said ban the ar15 platform and if they switch ban what they switch to. (Plus ban high capacity mags)

[lemonlime 5503]

6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Don’t know if that’s directed at me, but I’ve got a 20+ year record on these boards of saying it should be easier to execute an involuntary commitment for mental illness as a result of my inability to get my mother into care before her situation took her life.
Who knows, we might wind up helping people?

 

It was directed at DalTx, and all the other posters who suggest more incarceration as the solution to gun violence every time there's some hint of something a shooter did or threatened years earlier, but was still a free man. 

It was not directed at you, and I'm sorry you lost your mother that way.  Access to treatment for mental illness in this country is a disgrace.  I'll just note I was responding to an article about vague threats the shooter apparently made in 2019, which were responded to by law enforcement, and presumably not mental health professionals  Whether had he received adequate mental health care, including possibly involuntary commitment three years ago, would have made any sort of difference, I don't know.  There's nothing in the reporting to date to suggest the shooter here had anything diagnosable on the DSM, as opposed to just being a horrible human being.

[HenryJames 66189]

10 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

but I’ve got a 20+ year record on these boards

tl;dr

[Paul Wesley 3289]

 

32 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Interesting that the same people who think every American has the right to concealed carry an AR-15, also thinks the solution is to throw people in prison for a vague threat to "kill everyone," presumably without any jury trial or evidence of an actual criminal statute that was violated.

All of this.  
 

Very few people have ANY idea how many mentally ill people with hostile demeanors and threatening statements (identical to “kill everyone”) come into contact with ERs, social workers, law enforcement, and mental health clinics EVERY DAY.   A big % of these antisocial people say and do these antisocial things while drunk, while in the throes of a meth-induced psychosis, and while in the midst of an argument with a family member.  
 

The idea that a DA could (or should) successfully bring charges based on testimony of a cop or a nurse or a social worker… the idea that it’s remotely possible to identify which persons among this ocean of antisocial assholes is *really* dangerous and then lock those (and only those) tens of thousands of people up for years is ABSURD.  It’s preposterous, and the only people repeatedly offering it as a solution are people who have already taken things off the table like:

1.  Civilians do not have a constitutional right to military weapons that are designed specifically and with the utmost intention of killing humans, killing them really quickly, and killing a LOT of them very quickly. 

(edit:  I decided to just stop at 1.)

tl, dr:   “Lock up mentally ill people” is a stupid distraction that has 0% chance of working.  So do what the rest of the motherfucking world does:  don’t indiscriminately sell military weapons to the public. 

[DalTxHornFan 3119]

My point on my grandmother's death was that they were both legal products -- misused.  It isn't the fault of the product.  It is the fault of the user.

The takeaway is -- some people really suck.  Laws and rules will never change any of that.

Carry on.