Active shooter thread

[cactusflinthead 27601]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Sounds like this Colorado county didn’t bother to follow the law in removing this man’s weapons after he made bomb threats. we struggle to follow even anemic gun control laws.

A judge also sealed his past crime records, even though he was an adult not a juvenile.  While we don’t know if his grandpa somehow called in favors, that seems to be within the realm of possibility.

All of this. It's going to be tough to get info on the case. I hope someone latches on to it like a bulldog. This stinks all over the place.

This kid should be Example 1A for red flag laws, which the sheriff ran on not enforcing. Make that fucker answer. Start asking around and dig. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

4 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

All of this. It's going to be tough to get info on the case. I hope someone latches on to it like a bulldog. This stinks all over the place.

This kid should be Example 1A for red flag laws, which the sheriff ran on not enforcing. Make that fucker answer. Start asking around and dig. 

...and if that's the case, then law enforcement and the whole concept of constitutional sheriffs need to be held accountable.

[Captainant 27680]

5 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

All of this. It's going to be tough to get info on the case. I hope someone latches on to it like a bulldog. This stinks all over the place.

This kid should be Example 1A for red flag laws, which the sheriff ran on not enforcing. Make that fucker answer. Start asking around and dig. 

What if I told you that El Paso county (where Colorado Springs is) and many other counties passed "Second Amendment Sanctuary" ordinances that effectively defanged state gun regulations? I'd betcha the local cops knew and didn't do anything about it, because why go after grandson of a progun politician??

[henrygandorf 29192]

5 hours ago, Captainant said:

I mean, it does. We are seeing an incremental increase in evangelical terrorists attacks, and they are repeating the rhetoric that MAGA politicians are pushing. It's stochastic terrorism.

i'm not sure what "it does" is in response to, but the point is that it's the fucking guns. 

without access to the fucking guns, there will be fewer shootings - mass, religious, hate-fueled, accidental, or otherwise.  once people start digging into motive and background, that's when things get tricky, so we should stop.  we shouldn't just get aggressive with the guns because he has ties to the right and hateful messaging in his ear - there will ALWAYS be hateful messaging and terrible messengers.

stop dissecting it.  it's the fucking guns.

first capitalization in over a year.  felt good.

[Satchel 6938]

4 hours ago, Captainant said:

What if I told you that El Paso county (where Colorado Springs is) and many other counties passed "Second Amendment Sanctuary" ordinances that effectively defanged state gun regulations? I'd betcha the local cops knew and didn't do anything about it, because why go after grandson of a progun politician??

The El Paso county sheriff said he would only enforce the law at the families insistence.

[956 Worldwide 34715]

5 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

This kid should be Example 1A for red flag laws, which the sheriff ran on not enforcing. Make that fucker answer. Start asking around and dig. 

I don’t think the people who elected that Sherrie are going to be put off too much by dead gay people. Awful but true. 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I don’t think the people who elected that Sherrie are going to be put off too much by dead gay people. Awful but true. 

All it takes is one pissed off individual. Tulia was one ornery old rancher. Make them justify it. They raided the Rainbow in FW and that shit came to a screeching halt. I know the gun fetishists won't give a damn about 5 dead queers. Make them get up and say it out loud and own it.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

The El Paso county sheriff said he would only enforce the law at the families insistence.

so if the families really want the law enforced, he will do it.  If the neighbors or nearby schools want it enforced, they can f-off?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

He was a good kid.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm not sure what "it does" is in response to, but the point is that it's the fucking guns. 

without access to the fucking guns, there will be fewer shootings - mass, religious, hate-fueled, accidental, or otherwise.  once people start digging into motive and background, that's when things get tricky, so we should stop.  we shouldn't just get aggressive with the guns because he has ties to the right and hateful messaging in his ear - there will ALWAYS be hateful messaging and terrible messengers.

stop dissecting it.  it's the fucking guns.

first capitalization in over a year.  felt good.

Too many guns results in shootings. Too much hate speech affects target selection. 

[henrygandorf 29192]

5 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Too many guns results in shootings. Too much hate speech affects target selection. 

well all shootings involve guns. 

the problem is when you make it about the hate speech, then some looney bin on the left decides to shoot people, the right will say, "see, it's a problem on both sides, just wish the mental health situation in this country was better oh well lol."  whenever there's a shooting, the right rushes to social media just praying he'll have leftist leanings.  there's a reason they do that.

keep your eye on the ball here, people. 

[freyguy 4278]

well, what's the score on right vs. left?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

About the same as usual. The right looks like they have another mass murder on their resume and will likely continue to shriek about being oppressed. 

[Satchel 6938]

42 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

so if the families really want the law enforced, he will do it.  If the neighbors or nearby schools want it enforced, they can f-off?

Pretty much.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

10 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

well all shootings involve guns. 

the problem is when you make it about the hate speech, then some looney bin on the left decides to shoot people, the right will say, "see, it's a problem on both sides, just wish the mental health situation in this country was better oh well lol."  whenever there's a shooting, the right rushes to social media just praying he'll have leftist leanings.  there's a reason they do that.

keep your eye on the ball here, people. 

Politicians on the left aren’t engaging in hate speech and posing with guns in their campaign ads. You can’t stop the right from bothsiderism. But the fact is that no one on the left was calling Steve Scalise a traitor or accusing him of treason. They were t talking about him at all. Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi both immediately condemned his shooter. They didn’t mock his shooting like Republicans did the attack on Paul Pelosi. Scalise was one of the few Republicans who showed up for Pelosi’s announcement that she was stepping down from party leadership. One side is in the pocket of the NRA, promotes gun ownership, opposes any and all gun control legislation, and preaches fear, intolerance, and hate of the ‘other.’ It’s not coincidence that their side is the one committing the hate crimes. They’re the party of white supremacists.

And it doesn’t have to be shootings, like it wasn’t with Pelosi. During the pandemic, Trump went on a campaign referring to the “China virus” and “Kung Flu” to deflect blame from his own abysmal response to the crisis. The result was that violent crimes against the Asian community in this country went on the rise. And it wasn’t limited to Chinese-Americans because white Americans can’t tell one person of Asian heritage from another.

So while the abundance of guns in this country is the reason we have so many shootings. It’s the hateful rhetoric coming from the right, particularly since Trump entered politics and normalized it, that is responsible for the rise in hate crimes. 

[henrygandorf 29192]

5 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Politicians on the left aren’t engaging in hate speech and posing with guns in their campaign ads. You can’t stop the right from bothsiderism. But the fact is that no one on the left was calling Steve Scalise a traitor or accusing him of treason. They were t talking about him at all. Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi both immediately condemned his shooter. They didn’t mock his shooting like Republicans did the attack on Paul Pelosi. Scalise was one of the few Republicans who showed up for Pelosi’s announcement that she was stepping down from party leadership. One side is in the pocket of the NRA, promotes gun ownership, opposes any and all gun control legislation, and preaches fear, intolerance, and hate of the ‘other.’ It’s not coincidence that their side is the one committing the hate crimes. They’re the party of white supremacists.

And it doesn’t have to be shootings, like it wasn’t with Pelosi. During the pandemic, Trump went on a campaign referring to the “China virus” and “Kung Flu” to deflect blame from his own abysmal response to the crisis. The result was that violent crimes against the Asian community in this country went on the rise. And it wasn’t limited to Chinese-Americans because white Americans can’t tell one person of Asian heritage from another.

So while the abundance of guns in this country is the reason we have so many shootings. It’s the hateful rhetoric coming from the right, particularly since Trump entered politics and normalized it, that is responsible for the rise in hate crimes. 

so you think we have a republican problem and a hate-speech problem, but not necessarily a gun problem in this country.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

33 minutes ago, freyguy said:

well, what's the score on right vs. left?

Left was up 35-0 in the first half.  Supposedly "legal" refs took over, and we might end up losing 39-38 because rules only apply to the left.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

so you think we have a republican problem and a hate-speech problem, but not necessarily a gun problem in this country.

No and I never said that we do. What do you think I meant when I said, “the abundance of guns in this country is the reason we have so many shootings?” The opposite of what I said? Both can be true. We have too many guns and that’s why we have so many shootings unlike other countries where they don’t have more guns than people and don’t have problems with gun violence. But that doesn’t mean that hate speech isn’t a real problem and you can draw a direct line from politicians and preachers preaching hate to violence committed against perceived enemies by their followers who’ve become radicalized as a result. And like I said, that violence isn’t limited to shootings. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

"Aldrich's arrest in connection to the bomb threat would not have shown up in background checks, according to the law enforcement sources who said records indicate he purchased the weapons, because the case was never adjudicated, the charges were dropped, and the records were sealed. It's unclear what prompted the sealing of the records."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/us/anderson-lee-aldrich-colorado-springs-shooting-suspect/index.html

[Guest]

19 hours ago, brakeman said:

These are obviously exit points from a 9mm, not a 5.56 round like what would be shot from an AR-15. So they are saying the rounds came from inside the club? I bet the NYT calls it a clip and thinks AR stands for assault rifle!!!1!

 

[Guest]

I'm at the point where the only thing you can do is release photos of the damage caused. Too many photos of the people outside the place where these shootings happened hugging and crying. It's glossed over now.

Pulse Nightclub had 49 killed. Nearly fucking fifty people murdered. Show the body bags stacked. Show a shot of inside that club with the lights turned on. We've got to shock people to get our way out of this. It's such a broken system that we can never say enough is enough.

[henrygandorf 29192]

18 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

No and I never said that we do. What do you think I meant when I said, “the abundance of guns in this country is the reason we have so many shootings?” The opposite of what I said? Both can be true. We have too many guns and that’s why we have so many shootings unlike other countries where they don’t have more guns than people and don’t have problems with gun violence. But that doesn’t mean that hate speech isn’t a real problem and you can draw a direct line from politicians and preachers preaching hate to violence committed against perceived enemies by their followers who’ve become radicalized as a result. And like I said, that violence isn’t limited to shootings. 

you will never be able to get rid of hate speech.  it's been around for thousands of years.  it was around way before guns and it'll still be around when gun problems are like smoking on airplanes or prescription cocaine.  when we colonize mars, there will be hate speech there.  it's a distraction. 

it's the guns.

[Neonmoon 38129]

21 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

"Aldrich's arrest in connection to the bomb threat would not have shown up in background checks, according to the law enforcement sources who said records indicate he purchased the weapons, because the case was never adjudicated, the charges were dropped, and the records were sealed. It's unclear what prompted the sealing of the records."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/us/anderson-lee-aldrich-colorado-springs-shooting-suspect/index.html

Related to local politician. Yeah it’s a huge fucking mystery 

[henrygandorf 29192]

1 hour ago, freyguy said:

well, what's the score on right vs. left?

we're losing.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I'm at the point where the only thing you can do is release photos of the damage caused. Too many photos of the people outside the place where these shootings happened hugging and crying. It's glossed over now.
Pulse Nightclub had 49 killed. Nearly fucking fifty people murdered. Show the body bags stacked. Show a shot of inside that club with the lights turned on. We've got to shock people to get our way out of this. It's such a broken system that we can never say enough is enough.

The people that would bother don’t matter.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

26 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

you will never be able to get rid of hate speech.  it's been around for thousands of years.  it was around way before guns and it'll still be around when gun problems are like smoking on airplanes or prescription cocaine.  when we colonize mars, there will be hate speech there.  it's a distraction. 

it's the guns.

Dude, it's clearly both.  I don't see why there is an argument.

[wildcat09 29355]

There's not really any practical difference between people like Tucker Carlson, the Libs of TikTok bitch, Matt Walsh, and the others who've been spreading the groomer panic and Anwar Al-Awlaki, who the Obama administration executed with a drone attack.

I'm not saying they should be extrajudicially executed, but they're knowingly and gleefully inciting murders and it seems like people should be able to do something about that.

[henrygandorf 29192]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Dude, it's clearly both.  I don't see why there is an argument.

there's an argument because once you stop focusing on the guns, it's over.

all shootings involve guns.  some shootings involve hate-speech and right-wing rhetoric.  

there are thousands of problems in the country/world right now.  tightening up gun access and getting rid of certain guns will help curb gun violence, statistics have shown this to be true.  there's no way to get rid of hate-speech and violence.  there will always be both.  human beings are violent by nature.  this is not a new thing.  guns are a new thing.  mass shootings are a new thing.

ask yourself if you think there will be gun problems and mass shootings in 1000 years.  ask yourself if there will still be hate-speech and violence in the world.

it's always the guns.

[Satchel 6938]

23 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

DIAF you cunt. 

I’d bet good money Lauren Boebert has never regularly taken her children to church.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

25 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

you will never be able to get rid of hate speech.  it's been around for thousands of years.  it was around way before guns and it'll still be around when gun problems are like smoking on airplanes or prescription cocaine.  when we colonize mars, there will be hate speech there.  it's a distraction. 

it's the guns.

Dude, I don’t know how you got it in your head that I’m saying something I’m not saying but you have. I’m not saying what you think I’m saying. Never once at any time ever on this or the previous board have I ever said anything other than that the problem with gun violence in this country is that we have too goddamn many guns in peoples’ hands. Got that? We’re in agreement on that, right? Maybe read it again to make sure because I keep saying it and you’re acting like you can’t see it.

Yes, there has always been hate speech, just like we’ve always had guns. But hate speech is on the rise and, as one would expect, so are hate crimes. Just like high-power military grade guns make it easy to kill people more efficiently and their availability results in an increase in gun deaths (and when we banned them for awhile, gun deaths declined), an increase in hate speech results in an increase in hate crime. It takes absolutely nothing away from the truth that too many guns results in gun violence to admit that truth too.

There is a concerted campaign being waged against LGBTQ citizens by the right in this country. Over 300 anti-LGBTQ bills were introduced across 36 states this year. In 12 states some were signed into law.

https://www.hrc.org/campaigns/the-state-legislative-attack-on-lgbtq-people#state-legislative-tracker-map

This article says 13 states instead of 12 and cites killings of at least 32 transgender and gender-nonconforming people in the country this year.

https://coloradosun.com/2022/11/20/colorado-springs-club-q-lgbtq-trans/

Sure, there’s always been hate speech, but this is something new in the modern era with it being spewed from politicians, preachers, tv pundits, and across social media. And it’s come with a corresponding increase in violence. So you can’t just brush that all aside and say with impunity, ‘Nope, it’s the guns, discussion over.’ They’re two separate issues with a pretty large overlap in their Venn diagram.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

21 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

there's an argument because once you stop focusing on the guns, it's over.

No it’s not. 

[Satchel 6938]

It’s hard to deny the extent to which Americans look to the gun to solve disputes that citizens in less violent countries would never consider.  Shooting a person to death because they cut in front of you is a uniquely American pathology.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

20 minutes ago, Satchel said:

I’d bet good money Lauren Boebert has never regularly taken her children to church.

If she has, she was taking them to the wrong church.

[henrygandorf 29192]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Dude, I don’t know how you got it in your head that I’m saying something I’m not saying but you have.

i'm not accusing you of anything.  when i say "you", it's the royal you.  you will never get rid of violence is not directed at you personally or anything you've said. 

i believe guns are the root of the gun violence problem and when people start talking about other contributing factors, it's hard to take them seriously. 

guns are the easiest part of the problem to fix.  when i say it's the guns, it doesn't mean i'm saying we don't have a hate-speech problem, or an anti-semitism problem, or an anti-lbtq+ problem.  didn't we learn this with black lives matter?  saying save the whales doesn't mean fuck the dolphins.  i'm addressing the obvious (and actually fixable) problem first.

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Yes, there has always been hate speech, just like we’ve always had guns.

we haven't always had guns.  relative to recorded history, guns are new.  high capacity assault weapons are very new.

4 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Sure, there’s always been hate speech, but this is something new in the modern era with it being spewed from politicians, preachers, tv pundits, and across social media.

it's always been this way.  you think politicians started being pieces of shit in 2015?  social media is the missing data point. 

[Satchel 6938]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

If she has, she was taking them to the wrong church.

This is how poorly catechized “Christians” observe the birth of the Prince of Peace.

[henrygandorf 29192]

8 minutes ago, Satchel said:

It’s hard to deny the extent to which Americans look to the gun to solve disputes that citizens in less violent countries would never consider.

what countries are "less violent" and how do we gather and assess these statistics?

i'm not saying there aren't less violent countries - i would assume most are less violent.  i'm just curious to see the work behind it.

[elfenix 34307]

9 minutes ago, Satchel said:

It’s hard to deny the extent to which Americans look to the gun to solve disputes that citizens in less violent countries would never consider.  Shooting a person to death because they cut in front of you is a uniquely American pathology.

this is dystopia the right wants.

[Satchel 6938]

17 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

what countries are "less violent" and how do we gather and assess these statistics?

i'm not saying there aren't less violent countries - i would assume most are less violent.  i'm just curious to see the work behind it.

Is this the kind of data you’re looking for?
 

https://www.healthdata.org/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier

[pyrohornIII 4815]

8 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

All of this. It's going to be tough to get info on the case. I hope someone latches on to it like a bulldog. This stinks all over the place.

This kid should be Example 1A for red flag laws, which the sheriff ran on not enforcing. Make that fucker answer. Start asking around and dig. 

Yep, and a judge sealed those records:

 

20 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

If she has, she was taking them to the wrong church.

Colorado right?  One kid is a Packers' fan, another a Raider.  Not a Bronco in sight.  I wonder how her constituency gets along with that lack of loyalty? 

Not any college logo in sight.  But then those who vote for her can't even spell college or university, so no surprise there.

 

[henrygandorf 29192]

5 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Is this the kind of data you’re looking for?
 

https://www.healthdata.org/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier

not really.  just curious to see how violence is quantified in countries that don't have the gun access we do.  obviously gun violence is going to be the highest in countries where guns are completely legal and access is high.

[Satchel 6938]

10 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

not really.  just curious to see how violence is quantified in countries that don't have the gun access we do.  obviously gun violence is going to be the highest in countries where guns are completely legal and access is high.

I agree. It’s naive to think Americans will buy millions of guns with no expectation of looking for opportunities to use them. 

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

35 minutes ago, Satchel said:

This is how poorly catechized “Christians” observe the birth of the Prince of Peace.

Representative Doug Lamborn of Colorado, whose district includes Colorado Springs, voted against the Senate Gun Control Act, saying “I will always stand against any legislation that restricts an individual’s God-given right to own and carry a firearm.”

God-given right? To own a gun? Really, Doug? Was that one of the commandments Moses brought down with him from Mt. Sinai? “Thou shalt maintain the right to own a firearm?” I don’t recall seeing that one in my copy of the Bible.

Fake fucking Christians perverting their theology to support their political agenda.

[Willfully Horn 8027]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

It’s hard to deny the extent to which Americans look to the gun to solve disputes that citizens in less violent countries would never consider.  Shooting a person to death because they cut in front of you is a uniquely American pathology.

If you’ve been watching “Shantaram,” and have enjoyed it, please read the book. Spoilered for those who won’t read it.

Spoiler

The guy who is the leader in the slum faces a conflict between two youngsters, one who is Hindi, the other Muslim. Living in a slum is communal, and religious strife could mean doom, for everybody.

His solution was to bind the combatants together for a week, and tasked each with learning something of value from their opponent’s religion.

In the book, it worked, but maybe that’s why they call such work ‘fiction.”

 

[Willfully Horn 8027]

59 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Representative Doug Lamborn of Colorado, whose district includes Colorado Springs, voted against the Senate Gun Control Act, saying “I will always stand against any legislation that restricts an individual’s God-given right to own and carry a firearm.”

God-given right? To own a gun? Really, Doug? Was that one of the commandments Moses brought down with him from Mt. Sinai? “Thou shalt maintain the right to own a firearm?” I don’t recall seeing that one in my copy of the Bible.

Fake fucking Christians perverting their theology to support their political agenda.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth, but triumphant are the gun owners, for they shall kill the meek and own the Eartth.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

15 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth, but triumphant are the gun owners, for they shall kill the meek and own the Eartth.

 

[Goredho 17408]

On 11/20/2022 at 1:42 PM, washparkhorn said:

Heavy has confirmed that Aldrich is the grandson of outgoing Republican state Rep. Randy Aldrich, the former mayor of Santee, California. There were calls to expel Voepel from the state Assembly, after he made comments comparing the January 6 attacks to the Revolutionary War. Aldrich’s mother, Laura Voepel, has written posts praising Randy Voepel on Facebook and confirming he is her father. 

“This is Lexington and Concord. First shots fired against tyranny,” Randy Voepel, who was defeated in a Republican primary in August 2022, said in a San Diego Union-Tribune article three days after January 6. “Tyranny will follow in the aftermath of the Biden swear-in on January 20th.” According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, Voepel “later tweeted that he condemned violence and lawlessness.”

the alleged perp is 3rd from the right. 
 

https://heavy.com/news/anderson-lee-aldrich/
 

Has this asshole announced he is attending Texas A&M yet?

[Fudge Nuggets 19206]

16 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

what countries are "less violent"

All of them?

[Fudge Nuggets 19206]

14 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

 

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."  J. Paul Getty

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20411]

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

heavy dot com huh.  yeah, that checks out.