Active shooter thread

[B00M 6414]

19 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Fewer guns readily available to the public will certainly reduce gang violence. 

Are you referring to specific proposed legislation that might accomplish this? 

 

[C-Man 27202]

Why wrap up gang violence deaths with mass shootings of public places such as schools, shopping malls, theaters, grocery stores, etc? Those are two different issues that share a commonality in guns. The mass shootings that are so shocking result in death among people who are just moving through a normal part of life. They're "innocents."

[fattyflattie 4639]

13 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Why wrap up gang violence deaths with mass shootings of public places such as schools, shopping malls, theaters, grocery stores, etc? Those are two different issues that share a commonality in guns. The mass shootings that are so shocking result in death among people who are just moving through a normal part of life. They're "innocents."

Because one makes up for the vast majority of mass shootings.  It’s the one you hear much less about. 

[Firemans4Horn 18037]

1 hour ago, B00M said:

I've said nothing of the sort. I'm saying that new gun laws won't prevent gang members from killing each other... and that the number of young men or boys killed every year in gang violence dwarfs the number of young people killed in school shootings. 

 

[Mdhorn 5947]

4 hours ago, horn4life said:

I think the President should be honest with the American people.  There simply will never be a stack of dead children tall enough for the GOP to to take any real action to curtail anything but guns being the leading cause of child mortality in our country.

There is simply no a pile big enough for any real action.  No line of caskets long enough.

Gun lobbyists will look to ban statistics eventually.  Surprised Abbott hasn't introduced a bill already.  

 

1 hour ago, B00M said:

I've said nothing of the sort. I'm saying that new gun laws won't prevent gang members from killing each other... and that the number of young men or boys killed every year in gang violence dwarfs the number of young people killed in school shootings. 

 

It doesn't have to prevent all--just some to show improvement.  I'm guessing in the school shootings, most aren't in gangs anyways.  

[Neonmoon 38129]

5 hours ago, B00M said:

Ima go out on a limb here: Canada effectively killing what was already heavily restricted (legal) handgun ownership this week probably reduced the chances of compromise from the right

I bet when you look at Canada schools shootings vs US schools shootings, one is a lot larger. Probably nothing to do with gun laws. Just more mental people in the US. But hey, enjoy hunting this weekend!

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

52 minutes ago, B00M said:

Are you referring to specific proposed legislation that might accomplish this? 

 

I’m not aware of any legislation that might accomplish this because cowardly legislators won’t risk getting cross threaded with the NRA and gun nuts.  That’s part of the reason I’m so fucking mad.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Fudge Nuggets

[jimmyjazz 45896]

3 hours ago, B00M said:

But we need to understand that school shootings and legally acquired firearms represent a tiny portion of these statistics...

Jesus.  I absolutely loathe this argument.  The number of people who are willing to commit murder is a tiny percentage of our population, but it's still illegal.

[elfenix 34228]

1 hour ago, Mdhorn said:

Gun lobbyists will look to ban statistics eventually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment

[B00M 6414]

38 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Jesus.  I absolutely loathe this argument.  The number of people who are willing to commit murder is a tiny percentage of our population, but it's still illegal.

I dont follow your analogy. Are you comparing legal possession of a firearm to murder?

Sure, let's ignore that mass shootings represent less than 1% of all homicides in the US.

How do you wish for the US to proceed? Do you see any value in criminals not knowing which Americans are armed? Would you rather be armed in the tiny chance someone tries to kill you, or would you rather wait for the brave, competent police? 

 

[Satchel 6935]

3 hours ago, B00M said:

I've said nothing of the sort. I'm saying that new gun laws won't prevent gang members from killing each other... and that the number of young men or boys killed every year in gang violence dwarfs the number of young people killed in school shootings. 

 

Then keep passing restrictions until gang members can no longer kill each other with ease… sorta like the pro birthers have done with abortion laws.

[pyrohornIII 4814]

14 hours ago, Bookman said:

I expect the Texas Legislature to pass a bill adding bullet proof vests to the list of school supplies.

They already sell backpacks with kevlar in them to use as shields.  https://bulletproofzone.com/collections/bags-backpacks

[pyrohornIII 4814]

2 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Then keep passing restrictions until gang members can no longer kill each other with ease… sorta like the pro birthers have done with abortion laws.

Or, I don't know, hang a huge tax on gun sales that goes strictly to improving the lives and futures of these kids, instead of raising them in a world where their easiest path to recognition or success is tied to a gun?       

[B00M 6414]

8 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

They already sell backpacks with kevlar in them to use as shields.  https://bulletproofzone.com/collections/bags-backpacks

Desks made from steel plate with nylon straps so they can be used as shields are probably next. 

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by B00M

[Pancho 44737]

Hey, no big deal, say radical republicans:

 

[B00M 6414]

3 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

Or, I don't know, hang a huge tax on gun sales that goes strictly to improving the lives and futures of these kids, instead of raising them in a world where their easiest path to recognition or success is tied to a gun?       

How big of a tax? Hi-points are like $99

So big that only the rich law abiding can defend themselves? 

It's the lack of educational and career opportunities and the 'glamorous' drug trade that makes the boys born into these situations need a gun. If they need it and can't buy it, they will steal it.

[B00M 6414]

3 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Hey, no big deal, say radical republicans:

 

First, everything about that is already illegal. What law would prevent that?

Second, lol at immediate malfunction. Even after manually ejecting the spent round I don't think it was going to fire again if he pulled the trigger.

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20394]

3 hours ago, B00M said:

I've said nothing of the sort. I'm saying that new gun laws won't prevent gang members from killing each other... and that the number of young men or boys killed every year in gang violence dwarfs the number of young people killed in school shootings. 

 

The number of people killed by guns in gang violence is dwarfed by the number of people killed by guns in non-gang violence. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20394]

Perhaps we should just arm random kids with rocket launchers. Let's see somebody with an AR-15 go after schools THEN. 

[Bookman 4638]

45 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

They already sell backpacks with kevlar in them to use as shields.  https://bulletproofzone.com/collections/bags-backpacks

Should be mandatory in schools.

[Brisketexan 105090]

First, everything about that is already illegal. What law would prevent that?
Second, lol at immediate malfunction. Even after manually ejecting the spent round I don't think it was going to fire again if he pulled the trigger.
 

He got the gun because had access to his parents’ gun safe, meaning it was NOT secure. If we had a “safe storage” law, the parents would face criminal liability….and perhaps they would have made sure he couldn’t access the safe to avoid violating that law.

[Satchel 6935]

Some of the stuff done by the Uvalde murderer would not have been allowed before Abbott defied the law enforcement community by passing gun laws that made it harder for Texans to pursue life, liberty and happiness.

A mass shooting Tuesday that killed at least 19 children and two teachers at a Texas elementary school came less than a year after legislators drastically expanded gun rights. 

Pledging to keep Texas a “bastion of freedom,” Gov. Greg Abbott in June signed seven laws, one of which allows people to legally carry handguns without licenses.

[fattyflattie 4639]

9 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Some of the stuff done by the Uvalde murderer would not have been allowed before Abbott defied the law enforcement community by passing gun laws that made it harder for Texans to pursue life, liberty and happiness.

A mass shooting Tuesday that killed at least 19 children and two teachers at a Texas elementary school came less than a year after legislators drastically expanded gun rights. 

Pledging to keep Texas a “bastion of freedom,” Gov. Greg Abbott in June signed seven laws, one of which allows people to legally carry handguns without licenses.

Unless I’m missing something, not a single one of those would have affected the Ulvalde shooting in any way, shape, or form. 

[Neonmoon 38129]

1 hour ago, B00M said:

First, everything about that is already illegal. What law would prevent that?

Second, lol at immediate malfunction. Even after manually ejecting the spent round I don't think it was going to fire again if he pulled the trigger.

 

A law banning the sale of handguns? Or do you think Connor will be hitting up the easily accessible black market?

Edited June 4, 2022 by Neonmoon

[Planet Houston 4930]

4 hours ago, B00M said:

I've said nothing of the sort. I'm saying that new gun laws won't prevent gang members from killing each other... and that the number of young men or boys killed every year in gang violence dwarfs the number of young people killed in school shootings. 

 

Honest question - are there stats on gang murders with AR-15’s vs handguns? 

Zero doubt what the weapon of choice is for mass shootings, so no doubt that banning, severely restricting or raising the age on AR-15s would help prevent school shootings.

Whether or not they prevent gang murders is not really the point. 

[Pods 7551]

Posters who keep bringing up gang shootings as the reason we shouldn't regulate assault weapons are unintentionally making a strong case to federally regulate handguns as well. A handgun purchased in Indiana instantly circumvents anything Illinois, or Chicago do to control gun violence. 

 

[wildcat09 29348]

Every single member of this department should eat their gun.

[Satchel 6935]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Unless I’m missing something, not a single one of those would have affected the Ulvalde shooting in any way, shape, or form. 

I think you may have missed something.

[Brisketexan 105090]

Every single member of this department should eat their gun.

And the LEO who called to threaten her for spending publicly should face a section 1983 claim.
Cops are worthless. They are a net negative. Their action - or lack thereof - literally got kids killed. We’d have been better off if the parents were in charge of the rescue effort.
Good guys with guns my ass.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

Skeptical it's gonna make a difference

 

[GhostOfTomJoad 9323]

Every single member of this department should eat their gun.

I said it way up the thread, but I'll repeat that every single chicken shit cop who either didn't act during the shooting or is now trying to bury the facts should be fired and their pension transfered to the parents of the victims.

[horn4life 3759]

Actually I think President Biden should say there is not a pile of dead children large enough, then qualify for the usual GOP bullshit logic, and say there will never be a pile of moms, dads, kids, babies, or any other fucking living thing, that would move the GOP to do anything, but nothing.

I honestly also think that Biden should come out every fucking day there is anew shooting (which ironically is every fucking day) and begin calling every mass shooting a GOP sponsored Slaughter.

 

[Brisketexan 105090]

Skeptical it's gonna make a difference
 

Theater. Behind the scenes, they assured GQP pols that the contributions would continue unabated. It’s all a lie. If a GQP pol or donor says something - anything - it’s a lie. Except when they openly confess how they oppose democracy and want to impose fascism. Then, curiously enough, they’re telling the truth.
The GQP will never let any more gun laws happen. Fuck them all to hell.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:23 AM, C-Man said:

I use SAM missiles on the ant piles in my yard

I think it would be fun to fish with dynamite but the fucking communist guvment outlawed it

[Horn Dog 9816]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/02/podcasts/the-daily/uvalde-buffalo-gun-control-california.html?smid=url-share
 

Was listening to this the other day and it makes a interesting point.  Gun control laws are like a slice of swiss cheese.  Any one law has lots of holes allowing gun advocates to continually claim “that law wouldn’t stop this particular situation”  or “ that one law wouldn’t end all gun crime!”  But stacking multiple laws (slices) together,  accumulated over time and targeted to different parts of the issue, those holes are greatly reduced to the point of making a meaningful impact.

 

Spoiler

California Has America’s Toughest Gun Laws, and They Work

As in the “Swiss cheese model” of Covid prevention, a lot of small measures add up.
 

The grotesque toll of gun violence is again being debated in Congress. As Luis Ferré-Sadurní and I reported over the long weekend, states are not holding their breath.

Particularly this state: In ways that have tended to be underreported, California has significantly lowered gun deaths, Dr. Garen J. Wintemute, an emergency room doctor and longtime firearm violence researcher, told me this week.

“For the last 20, maybe even 25 years — except for the two years of the pandemic, which have increased homicides and suicides across the country — our rates of firearm violence have trended downward,” said Dr. Wintemute, who directs the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis, Medical Center in Sacramento. “And this has been at a time when most of the rates in the rest of the country have gone up.”

California’s rate of firearm mortality is among the nation’s lowest, with 8.5 gun deaths per 100,000 people in 2020, compared with 13.7 per 100,000 nationally and 14.2 per 100,000 in Texas, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has reported. And Californians are about 25 percent less likely to die in mass shootings, compared with residents of other states, according to a recent Public Policy Institute of California analysis.

 

I asked Dr. Wintemute how California is different. Here’s a lightly edited excerpt from our conversation, which took place on Memorial Day after his emergency room shift:

Just a couple of weeks ago, California had a mass shooting. By what measures are our policies a success?

You have to look at it on a population basis. We do have more mass shootings in California, but we’re also by far the largest state. I looked a while ago at the rates of firearm violence across the 21st century — homicide and suicide together — and the rest of the country was up, but California’s rates were so far down that the average was flat.

We always hear that nothing works, that even California’s strict gun laws are ineffective.

That’s because we evaluate policies one at a time, in isolation. The results for one policy might be mixed or even negative. But what California has done over a number of decades has been to enact a whole bundle of policies that I think work in synergy, to measurable effect.

It sounds like the “Swiss cheese model” public health experts have used to address Covid.

Yes. The idea is to prevent the holes in the policies from lining up. But if we rank the states, California’s rate of firearm violence ranks 29th out of 50 states for homicides and 44th for suicides.

Can you share some examples?

California has done a lot to prevent high-risk people from purchasing firearms. We’ve broadened the criteria for keeping guns out of the hands of people who pose a danger to themselves or others due to mental illness. If you’re convicted of a violent misdemeanor in California, you can’t have a gun for the next 10 years; that offense has to be a felony in most states.

We require background checks, and not just from licensed retailers; in most states, purchases from private parties require no background checks or record keeping of any kind. We have a system, that we’re evaluating now, for getting guns back from “prohibited persons” — people who have been convicted of violent crimes or who are facing domestic violence restraining orders. And we enforce these policies, unlike a lot of other states.

What else?

In the early 1990s, cheap handguns — “Saturday Night Specials” — were almost entirely manufactured around Los Angeles. It was a few companies making upward of 800,000 cheap handguns a year. So the state imposed standards for design and safety. One of the companies has since gone to Nevada. The rest went belly-up and no one else has come in to fill the gap.

What about gaps?

Every time California sets a new standard, the gun industry tries to outwit it. Unregulated ghost guns have become immensely popular here, precisely because we’re such a tightly regulated market. And the state program to recover guns from prohibited people has never had the level of funding it needs to do the whole job — there are only about 40 trained agents for the whole state and a backlog of at least 10,000 people whose guns need to be taken.
 

Overall, what could the rest of the country learn from California?

The lower the prevalence of ownership, the lower the rate of firearm violence — that’s been one of the most robust research findings for decades. Rates of gun ownership are lower here, in part because of this bundle of state measures. In the United States overall, something like 25 percent to 30 percent of individuals own guns. In California, it’s about 15 percent to 18 percent.

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Horn Dog

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 hours ago, Satchel said:

I think you may have missed something.

Maybe you can point to the specific law. I read thru it. None of it changed anything that happened in Uvalde. 
 

Bill 19, not applicable

Bill 20, not applicable 

Bill 550, not applicable 

Bill 957, not applicable  

Bill 1500, not applicable 

Bill 1927, not applicable 

Bill 2622, can you point to any federal law he ducked due to being a Texan?  
 

I think it was you, that missed something.  Or just assumed your Twitter post was accurate.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Satchel 6935]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Maybe you can point to the specific law. I read thru it. None of it changed anything that happened in Uvalde. 
 

Bill 19, not applicable

Bill 20, not applicable 

Bill 550, not applicable 

Bill 957, not applicable  

Bill 1500, not applicable 

Bill 1927, not applicable 

Bill 2622, can you point to any federal law he ducked due to being a Texan?  
 

I think it was you, that missed something.  Or just assumed your Twitter post was accurate.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

While the official minimum age to own and carry a gun in Texas remains 21, another law that came into effect in September allows people between 18 and 21 to buy a handgun

[Biff Tannen 45671]

3 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

Fox News alert came thru on my MIL’s phone yesterday. “Gas prices more than double since Biden took office!!!”

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 hours ago, Satchel said:

While the official minimum age to own and carry a gun in Texas remains 21, another law that came into effect in September allows people between 18 and 21 to buy a handgun

Oh. I was unaware a handgun was used in Ulvalde. 

[Caponata 151]

On 6/3/2022 at 8:40 AM, RomaVicta said:

A huge plurality of the populace has been trained to hate journalists who investigate stories and trust the police who routinely cover up their own crimes by enforcing omerta. Now police in Uvalde openly block investigation by the press and refuse to release any information that would aid accountability.

Perfect for a healthy republic!

 

Prob for another thread but the death of local news & journalism is a problem that is overlooked. Old school investigative journalism even at the smallest level is a necessary check & balance.

[HenryJames 66038]

 

[B00M 6414]

12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

He got the gun because had access to his parents’ gun safe, meaning it was NOT secure. If we had a “safe storage” law, the parents would face criminal liability….and perhaps they would have made sure he couldn’t access the safe to avoid violating that law.

Gotcha, thanks, I've said (buried in this thread), there should be criminal consequences for a parent (or girlfriend?) failing to reasonably* secure their firearms if they're used to commit a crime. 

*angle grinders exist

[bolverk 29659]

 

[Homercles 10205]

2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

Well in this day and age, can’t say I’m truly shocked but it was still a surprise he rose all the way to the fourth round of the racial draft.  I thought he was bound for free agency but then again Aggie NLA money can do what it wants.  
 

[Pancho 44737]

So nothing is going to happen—again. 

What will they do when the next elementary mass shooting occurs? Nothing again? 

 

[washparkhorn 9939]

Do-nothing Congress. Insanity to keep voting for these bastards and bitches. Vote them all out. 

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

8 minutes ago, Pancho said:

What will they do when the next elementary mass shooting occurs? Nothing again?

Of course. 

[Red Five 40849]

They will talk slightly louder for a few days about rap music and doors. Then back to nothing. 

[Pancho 44737]