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Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28705

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Oh, great.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ohio-let-teachers-carry-guns-after-24-hours-training-2022-06-03/

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Ohio to let teachers carry guns after 24 hours of training

June 3 (Reuters) - Ohio is set to enact a law that allows teachers and other staff to be armed with guns in schools once they have completed up to 24 hours of initial training.

Proponents hope armed teachers will reduce the frequency and deadliness of school shootings, which have become recurrent in the United States. The bill's opponents, including teachers' unions and the state's main police officer union, say it will only make schools more dangerous for children.

Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, a Republican, has said he will sign the bill into law.

The bill was passed by the Republican-controlled Ohio General Assembly this week. It was designed to defuse a ruling last year by the Ohio Supreme Court that said a longstanding state law required teachers to complete more than 700 hours in a peace-officer training program before they could be armed with a gun on school premises.

Proponents of the bill said it would allow school staff to confront an armed attacker before police entered.

"In emergency situations at our schools, seconds matter and tragedies can be prevented," Representative Thomas Hall, the bill's sponsor, said in a statement.

Armed teachers would be required to undergo criminal background checks and receive 8 hours of additional training each subsequent year.

How exactly are teachers supposed to arm themselves in the first place? We already pay them like shit. And one of the first things Mike DeWine did after the pandemic hit was to slash $310 Million from the education budget.

Cops don’t stop school shooters. What makes anyone think that arming teachers will make a difference? (That’s a rhetorical question, of course. The answer is Republicans + NRA = “More guns!” Not sensible gun control laws.)

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4636

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48 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The TLDR version: it calls for 1) universal background checks, 2) 21 years old to buy a gun, 3) red flag laws with due process, and 4) waiting period to buy an assault rifle (I'd expand that to include handguns, but that's what he said).

1a needs to be proof of safe storage.  That takes away 95% of the kids living at home/theft killings right out of the equation. Safe and trigger locks, preferably with maybe a condition on the trigger lock for biometric bedside type safes. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28705

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6 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Using an AR-15, I’ve shot dead 4 pigs in the last 2 weeks.  
 

They are used for hunting.  In my circumstance, used more for  eradication.  

Oh, gosh. How did anyone ever manage to kill a wild boar before the advent of the AR-15? (I assume that’s the kind of “pig”‘ you’re talking about.)

Native Texan and former Air Force Academy and Ohio State LB hunts them with a knife. On the Buckeye Cruise for Cancer they auction off prizes and in the past they’ve auctioned off a chance to go knife-hunting for wild boar with Schlegel. The AR-15 was made for killing people, not swine. You don’t need it for that. Oh, I’m sure it’s fun and makes you feel cool an’ all. But you don’t need it. 

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Gap03

Gap03 3276

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Hmbre97 said:
14 minutes ago, deadshank said:
Nope.  I didn’t miss. 

Nothing stopping you from using a bolt action then. Still don't need an AR.

Dude, you obviously just don't understand how dangerous these things are ...

south-park-jimbo.gif

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deadshank

deadshank 24651

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1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Oh, gosh. How did anyone ever manage to kill a wild boar before the advent of the AR-15? (I assume that’s the kind of “pig”‘ you’re talking about.)

Native Texan and former Air Force Academy and Ohio State LB hunts them with a knife. On the Buckeye Cruise for Cancer they auction off prizes and in the past they’ve auctioned off a chance to go knife-hunting for wild boar with Schlegel. The AR-15 was made for killing people, not swine. You don’t need it for that. Oh, I’m sure it’s fun and makes you feel cool an’ all. But you don’t need it. 

I don’t find it “fun” at all.  It doesn’t make me feel “cool.”   It’s work and I have enough work to do already.  We don’t want or need the invasive pigs tearing up everything and running the deer off the supplemental food we put out for them during the drought. 
 

You are correct that the AR platform and most all other firearms were developed to kill people.  They can be used for other purposes, as mine are.  I’ve never been a big fan of ARs and prefer bolt-action rifles but they are more cumbersome.  
 

I don’t feel ashamed that I use a tool that some don’t like.   My use of the tool is completely within the realm of responsibility.   
 

Regarding the guy that hunts pigs with a knife, running pigs with dogs and stabbing them with a knife is more of a “hey, look at me” affair than me sitting by myself in the middle of nowhere, shooting pigs, dragging and opening them up for a quick clean up by scavengers.  
 

 

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33834

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Just now, deadshank said:

I don’t find it “fun” at all.  It doesn’t make me feel “cool.”   It’s work and I have enough work to do already.  We don’t want or need the invasive pigs tearing up everything and running the deer off the supplemental food we put out for them during the drought. 
 

You are correct that the AR platform and most all other firearms were developed to kill people.  They can be used for other purposes, as mine are.  I’ve never been a big fan of ARs and prefer bolt-action rifles but they are more cumbersome.  
 

I don’t feel ashamed that I use a tool that some don’t like.   My use of the tool is completely within the realm of responsibility.   
 

Regarding the guy that hunts pigs with a knife, running pigs with dogs and stabbing them with a knife is more of a “hey, look at me” affair than me sitting by myself in the middle of nowhere, shooting pigs, dragging and opening them up for a quick clean up by scavengers.  
 

 

why not just set out land mines and save yourself all the trouble? fertilize and turn the soil in one freedom-loving fell swoop!

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chainsaw

chainsaw 9837

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Posted
1 minute ago, deadshank said:

I don’t find it “fun” at all.  It doesn’t make me feel “cool.”   It’s work and I have enough work to do already.  We don’t want or need the invasive pigs tearing up everything and running the deer off the supplemental food we put out for them during the drought. 
 

You are correct that the AR platform and most all other firearms were developed to kill people.  They can be used for other purposes, as mine are.  I’ve never been a big fan of ARs and prefer bolt-action rifles but they are more cumbersome.  
 

I don’t feel ashamed that I use a tool that some don’t like.   My use of the tool is completely within the realm of responsibility.   
 

Regarding the guy that hunts pigs with a knife, running pigs with dogs and stabbing them with a knife is more of a “hey, look at me” affair than me sitting by myself in the middle of nowhere, shooting pigs, dragging and opening them up for a quick clean up by scavengers.  
 

 

I respect what you do, and even though I am as anti-gun as they come, I believe you could pass a background check, I believe you have legitimate uses for these devices, and I believe you would be permitted to keep them if any legislation supported by Beto O'Rourke were to be passed and in effect.

You are a responsible gun owner and you have nothing to worry about.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45546

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I don't have a problem with limited sales of weapons like the AR-15 to those who have a legit need, like ranchers.  There would need to be serious bars to clear, something like proof of land ownership or residence on that land, etc.

Eliminating 90% of sales would be a helluva start.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28705

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6 minutes ago, deadshank said:

I don’t find it “fun” at all.  It doesn’t make me feel “cool.”   It’s work and I have enough work to do already.  We don’t want or need the invasive pigs tearing up everything and running the deer off the supplemental food we put out for them during the drought. 
 

You are correct that the AR platform and most all other firearms were developed to kill people.  They can be used for other purposes, as mine are.  I’ve never been a big fan of ARs and prefer bolt-action rifles but they are more cumbersome.  
 

I don’t feel ashamed that I use a tool that some don’t like.   My use of the tool is completely within the realm of responsibility.   
 

Regarding the guy that hunts pigs with a knife, running pigs with dogs and stabbing them with a knife is more of a “hey, look at me” affair than me sitting by myself in the middle of nowhere, shooting pigs, dragging and opening them up for a quick clean up by scavengers.  

I contend that anyone who uses an assault rifle to go hunting does it so they can justify owning military grade weaponry that they don’t need by saying, ‘Hey, I use it for hunting.’

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deadshank

deadshank 24651

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1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I contend that anyone who uses an assault rifle to go hunting does it so they can justify owning military grade weaponry that they don’t need by saying, ‘Hey, I use it for hunting.’

Well, OK then. 

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Satchel

Satchel 6908

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1 hour ago, deadshank said:

Using an AR-15, I’ve shot dead 4 pigs in the last 2 weeks.  
 

They are used for hunting.  In my circumstance, used more for  eradication.  
 

 

 

Will the other guns you own eradicate pigs?

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deadshank

deadshank 24651

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3 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Will the other guns you own eradicate pigs?

Good question. 

When I'm out just for pigs (99% of the time that is after deer season), I use the AR platform (AR 15 and AR 10).  When I'm hunting WTD, I only use bolt-action rifles; however, if a pig or pigs show up I will shoot them with the bolt-action rifle.  Pigs are under a zero-tolerance / shoot on sight policy.  Many a deer hunt has been ruined by the pig plague.  Don't leave them lay. Haul them and open them up for the scavengers to clean them up.  If you want a pig for eating, then shoot a small one, skin and gut it, quarter and process it.  If you don't want to do all of that and just shoot them then my place isn't for you.  It's work and not playtime.  Go play pew-pew somewhere else.

For @Longhorn_Fan68 and @WhatTheBuck,  I'm not the guy you loathe.  

To me, ARs are just tools.  They stay in the safe until it is time to use them.  I don't do a bunch of tacticool mods to them and I'm not in love with them.  I don't take one with me everywhere I go and I don't have one out "just in case" at home.   

I know the type that you guys loathe.  I don't like those meatheads either and I know a few of them.  They are immature dipshits and I avoid them like they have a case of radioactive ebola.

ARs can be responsibly owned and used.  

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104556

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1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

1a needs to be proof of safe storage.  That takes away 95% of the kids living at home/theft killings right out of the equation. Safe and trigger locks, preferably with maybe a condition on the trigger lock for biometric bedside type safes. 

You know that's my #1 as well.  But my point wasn't to suggest good "gun responsibility" policies.  It was to make the point that it doesn't matter what those polices are, every one of them is more DOA than a Robb Elementary victim.  Because the GQP will not allow anything, anything at all, to pass.  We are, AT BEST, at an impasse.  In reality, the ability to own, possess, and carry whatever fucking gun you want has EXPANDED under GQP rule.  Our best-case scenario is to stop the expansion.  And I don't think even that will work.  I think it is significantly more likely that GQP legislatures make getting and carrying a gun by anyone EASIER instead of enacting any additional reasonable regulation.  And you know I'm right.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33834

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12 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Good question. 

When I'm out just for pigs (99% of the time that is after deer season), I use the AR platform (AR 15 and AR 10).  When I'm hunting WTD, I only use bolt-action rifles; however, if a pig or pigs show up I will shoot them with the bolt-action rifle.  Pigs are under a zero-tolerance / shoot on sight policy.  Many a deer hunt has been ruined by the pig plague.  Don't leave them lay. Haul them and open them up for the scavengers to clean them up.  If you want a pig for eating, then shoot a small one, skin and gut it, quarter and process it.  If you don't want to do all of that and just shoot them then my place isn't for you.  It's work and not playtime.  Go play pew-pew somewhere else.

For @Longhorn_Fan68 and @WhatTheBuck,  I'm not the guy you loathe.  

To me, ARs are just tools.  They stay in the safe until it is time to use them.  I don't do a bunch of tacticool mods to them and I'm not in love with them.  I don't take one with me everywhere I go and I don't have one out "just in case" at home.   

I know the type that you guys loathe.  I don't like those meatheads either and I know a few of them.  They are immature dipshits and I avoid them like they have a case of radioactive ebola.

ARs can be responsibly owned and used.  

it's great that the AR came along because as we all know prior to 1994 the great pig plague was upon us and simple rifles just wouldn't do it. thank jeebus those weapons came along and we could defeat our swine overlord. all hail the AR!

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Goofyboy

Goofyboy 3197

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You are. I’m in favor of  you having the right to own it. 

And I’m saying I don’t care one way or the other. It’s a gun. If it’s legal to have, I’ll have if. If that changes, no problem. It’s just a gun.

Look - there are a whole bunch of things to try before taking guns away. But, not a single one will happen because the GQP gets their jollies off on owning GUNZ….
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deadshank

deadshank 24651

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2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

it's great that the AR came along because as we all know prior to 1994 the great pig plague was upon us and simple rifles just wouldn't do it. thank jeebus those weapons came along and we could defeat our swine overlord. all hail the AR!

Feral pigs have become significantly worse since 1994.  Even with ARs, we are losing the battle.

Again, and to me, an AR is just a tool.  I'm sickened that there are those among us that do evil and murder.  Further, I don't think every fool drawing a breath should have an AR or any other firearm.  

 

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Satchel

Satchel 6908

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23 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Good question. 

When I'm out just for pigs (99% of the time that is after deer season), I use the AR platform (AR 15 and AR 10).  When I'm hunting WTD, I only use bolt-action rifles; however, if a pig or pigs show up I will shoot them with the bolt-action rifle.  Pigs are under a zero-tolerance / shoot on sight policy.  Many a deer hunt has been ruined by the pig plague.  Don't leave them lay. Haul them and open them up for the scavengers to clean them up.  If you want a pig for eating, then shoot a small one, skin and gut it, quarter and process it.  If you don't want to do all of that and just shoot them then my place isn't for you.  It's work and not playtime.  Go play pew-pew somewhere else.

For @Longhorn_Fan68 and @WhatTheBuck,  I'm not the guy you loathe.  

To me, ARs are just tools.  They stay in the safe until it is time to use them.  I don't do a bunch of tacticool mods to them and I'm not in love with them.  I don't take one with me everywhere I go and I don't have one out "just in case" at home.   

I know the type that you guys loathe.  I don't like those meatheads either and I know a few of them.  They are immature dipshits and I avoid them like they have a case of radioactive ebola.

ARs can be responsibly owned and used.  

So, ARs are not essential in the eradication of pigs?

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Goredho

Goredho 17345

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Posted
2 hours ago, deadshank said:

Using an AR-15, I’ve shot dead 4 pigs in the last 2 weeks.  
 

They are used for hunting.  In my circumstance, used more for  eradication.  
 

 

 

Curious, would a bolt action .30-06 been any less effective in the scenarios where you killed these 4 pigs?

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10911

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1 minute ago, Goredho said:

Curious, would a bolt action .30-06 been any less effective in the scenarios where you killed these 4 pigs?

Pigs do skedaddle really quickly after the first shot, but as designed an AR can knock down multiple targets in the blink of an eye. Targets like pigs or school children for example.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33834

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1 minute ago, Goredho said:

Curious, would a bolt action .30-06 been any less effective in the scenarios where you killed these 4 pigs?

shit no. you have to aim and actually think about where you're shooting.  why would anyone bother with that when you can spray and pray while making pig mush in the process?

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Gap03

Gap03 3276

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1 minute ago, SimonBolivar said:

Pigs do skedaddle really quickly after the first shot, but as designed an AR can knock down multiple targets in the blink of an eye. Targets like pigs or school children for example.

Definitely.  Wouldn't RPGs work even better in taking out a pack of pigs, though?  Why would I want to use a less effective tool in my war on pigs just because it could be used to take out hundreds of people in the wrong hands?

i-thought-this-was-america-randy-marsh.g

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10911

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1 minute ago, Gap03 said:

Definitely.  Wouldn't RPGs work even better in taking out a pack of pigs, though?  Why would I want to use a less effective tool in my war on pigs just because it could be used to take out hundreds of people in the wrong hands?

i-thought-this-was-america-randy-marsh.g

Nah, a well placed mortar though would certainly provide better results.

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deadshank

deadshank 24651

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Curious, would a bolt action .30-06 been any less effective in the scenarios where you killed these 4 pigs?

2 instances it would have been the same result.  One shot / one pig / the only pig that showed up.

The 3rd instance was 2 pigs showed up at the same time.  I shot the away pig first and the near pig second as it ran directly away from me.

.30-06 would be way less effective but no undoable. 

Again, it's just a tool to me.  I'm not a Rambo wannabe and can't stand the AR geeks that are.   

Longhorn_Fan68 just talking loud and attracting a crowd.  Which is fine.  I don't expect everyone to understand or agree.  He's actually pretty danged funny.  I've never once heard "spray and pray."  I'm gonna steal that and pay him his royalty.

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 7913

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Huh. A post I made seems to have vanished in the ether.

Feral hogs are not just a nuisance. Their numbers make them a deadly threat. I absolutely agree that overwhelming firepower, when tasked with eradicating those on your land, is a smart idea. 
 

That said, regulations that put the AR platform in the hands of landowners beset by hogs is how I interpret the 2nd Amendment’s first clause.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29775

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2 hours ago, chainsaw said:

I respect what you do, and even though I am as anti-gun as they come, I believe you could pass a background check, I believe you have legitimate uses for these devices, and I believe you would be permitted to keep them if any legislation supported by Beto O'Rourke were to be passed and in effect.

You are a responsible gun owner and you have nothing to worry about.

I'm similarly persuaded by deadshank's illumination of what he does. I would guess that he doesn't require more than a ten bullet magazine for what he describes. Further, he seems to fit the model for someone who should get a permit to use the weapon.

I will also speculate that the killing power of the AR-15 round is called for in bringing down a large animal like a feral hog and arguably more humane in that it kills rapidly. I've read plenty about the wild hog problem developing in most of the world.

I'm guessing it's the hogs or ants that will replace us.

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"There are millions of wild hogs in Texas, though they are rarely violent toward humans. Texans mostly encounter them when the animals have uprooted a flower bed or damaged crops. Unlike domesticated pigs, feral hogs can become aggressive if they feel trapped, or if a female hog is defending her offspring. Most weigh about 200 pounds, though they can grow to more than 500.

“Feral pigs will lunge at you and attack you” if they perceive a threat, said John J. McGlone, a professor of animal behavior at Texas Tech University who has studied feral and domestic hogs.

"There were about 100 documented attacks by feral hogs on humans in the United States between 1825 and 2012, four of which were fatal, according to a 2013 study. The most recent of those was also in Texas, in 1996."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/26/us/texas-woman-killed-feral-hogs.html

 

So a step up from "we need AR-15s for raccoons in rural Colorado" but not by much. 

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Goredho

Goredho 17345

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1 minute ago, deadshank said:

2 instances it would have been the same result.  One shot / one pig / the only pig that showed up.

The 3rd instance was 2 pigs showed up at the same time.  I shot the away pig first and the near pig second as it ran directly away from me.

.30-06 would be way less effective but no undoable. 

Again, it's just a tool to me.  I'm not a Rambo wannabe and can't stand the AR geeks that are.   

Longhorn_Fan68 just talking loud and attracting a crowd.  Which is fine.  I don't expect everyone to understand or agree.  He's actually pretty danged funny.  I've never once heard "spray and pray."  I'm gonna steal that and pay him his royalty.

I honestly don't have a problem with people like you owning a high-capacity semi-automatic rifle.  Even one chambered for military rounds that are optimized for people damage (and are coincidentally good for feral pig control).  That is your right.  But I don't think that right should trump the right to life of those Uvalde children, and it sounds like you would agree.

I think both your rights as a gun owner and mass shooting victims rights to life can be protected.  Regulate the ownership of guns to ensure that the pool of gun owners does not include people like Salvador Ramos.  That's it, and it would not be hard if the majority of gun owners were of your mind.  Provided they can pass a vetting process to ensure they are responsible, law-abiding owners, everyone gets to keep the guns they have now, or want to own in the future.  They just have to accept a vetting process, just like we all do before we can legally purchase or drive a car, or legally hunt wild game, or construct a habitable dwelling, etc...

But it is when gun owners not like you take a hard line stance against any sort of gun control whatsoever that the claws come out, frustrations mount and people begin to understandably believe there is no way to work with gun owners.  So they start to work against gun owners, because the only option being made available to them is the elimination of private gun ownership.

I am a gun owner, I love to shoot, I've taught my kids how to shoot.  We live on a ranch, and guns are often a necessary tool here.  I was away on business two weeks ago, and my 13 year old son had to shoot a rattlesnake that had taken up residence in our barn.  My wife was freaking out, I was away, and he took it upon himself to ask her to get the .22 so he could do what needed to be done.  She did, and he did -- thoughtfully and safely.  I was incredibly proud of him and view it as a huge milestone in his becoming a man.

image.jpeg.45e621bb28ef1ee182dc01edd294f520.jpeg

But if the only choice being offered to me is that experience of gun ownership, or a growing pile of dead kids that will never have a chance to become men (or women), then I have to side with people like Longhorn_Fan68.  Take the fucking guns.

But I would much rather gun owners just work with the rest of society to make that unnecessary.  Our internal brinksmanship is so fucking stupid.

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34422

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6 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I honestly don't have a problem with people like you owning a high-capacity semi-automatic rifle.  Even one chambered for military rounds that are optimized for people damage (and are coincidentally good for feral pig control).  That is your right.  But I don't think that right should trump the right to life of those Uvalde children, and it sounds like you would agree.

I think both your rights as a gun owner and mass shooting victims rights to life can be protected.  Regulate the ownership of guns to ensure that the pool of gun owners does not include people like Salvador Ramos.  That's it, and it would not be hard if the majority of gun owners were of your mind.  Provided they can pass a vetting process to ensure they are responsible, law-abiding owners, everyone gets to keep the guns they have now, or want to own in the future.  They just have to accept a vetting process, just like we all do before we can legally purchase or drive a car, or legally hunt wild game, or construct a habitable dwelling, etc...

But it is when gun owners not like you take a hard line stance against any sort of gun control whatsoever that the claws come out, frustrations mount and people begin to understandably believe there is no way to work with gun owners.  So they start to work against gun owners, because the only option being made available to them is the elimination of private gun ownership.

I am a gun owner, I love to shoot, I've taught my kids how to shoot.  We live on a ranch, and guns are often a necessary tool here.  I was away on business two weeks ago, and my 13 year old son had to shoot a rattlesnake that had taken up residence in our barn.  My wife was freaking out, I was away, and he took it upon himself to ask her to get the .22 so he could do what needed to be done.  She did, and he did -- thoughtfully and safely.  I was incredibly proud of him and view it as a huge milestone in his becoming a man.

image.jpeg.45e621bb28ef1ee182dc01edd294f520.jpeg

But if the only choice being offered to me is that experience of gun ownership, or a growing pile of dead kids that will never have a chance to become men (or women), then I have to side with people like Longhorn_Fan68.  Take the fucking guns.

But I would much rather gun owners just work with the rest of society to make that unnecessary.  Our internal brinksmanship is so fucking stupid.

1. Better background checks 

2. Red flag laws with a mechanism for review

3. 10 round magazines 

4. Waiting period

I don’t see how any hog hunter is harmed. I don’t see how anyone is harmed except for people who want to shoot other people and AR nuts.

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Goredho

Goredho 17345

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6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

1. Better background checks 

2. Red flag laws with a mechanism for review

3. 10 round magazines 

4. Waiting period

I don’t see how any hog hunter is harmed. I don’t see how anyone is harmed except for people who want to shoot other people and AR nuts.

I don't have a problem with any of that.  #3 is going to make it hard to get #1, #2 or #4, so as a practical matter, I say start without your suggested magazine limits.  1, 2 and 4 would have kept a lot of kids alive in Uvalde.  But there are too many gun owners who would look at the heading of "sensible gun control measures" and never get to the bullet points before they had already rejected anything you have to say.

Edit: 1, 2 and 4 are the vetting process I described in my previous post.

Edited by Goredho
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104556

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

1. Better background checks 

2. Red flag laws with a mechanism for review

3. 10 round magazines 

4. Waiting period

I don’t see how any hog hunter is harmed. I don’t see how anyone is harmed except for people who want to shoot other people and AR nuts.

Matthew?

Oh, also, add the "safe storage" law which -- while far less glamorous, it would likely ultimately prevent a lot more gun deaths, including suicides, accidents, and yes, crimes committed by kids who are old enough to do bad shit but not old enough to get a gun on their own so they'd use their parents' guns.

I think an age limit for purchase of a rifle or handgun, and possession of same without an adult present, would also be sound, and actually would be one of the more helpful measures that could be passed (young male brains can be a seriously fucked up thing).

I am a gun owner and hunter.  I would not be harmed by any of those laws, and I never would have been.

Edited by Brisketexan
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