Active shooter thread

[fattyflattie 4639]

6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

the irony of posting that story here did not escape me

I figured as much. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

Crimo was wearing a dress at the time of the shooting. According to police, the dress allowed him to better conceal his weapon. 

[Celery Man 20933]

9 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Shitastic level hypocrisy from the message board that blasts liberal arts majors as useless. "The narrowing of niches and directions" was exactly the point I was making about why having a specific brand of masculinity/femininity is toxic because it pushes humans into a corner and some (typically male) will lash outward if they do not fit the role assigned to them, or if they have no mechanism to feel in control of their emotions.

 

man he really nailed it with that show

[DixonHur 11295]

5 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Crimo was wearing a dress at the time of the shooting. According to police, the dress allowed him to better conceal his weapon. 

Wait until Fox and Texags find out, they'll be blaming transgender grooming.

Edited July 5, 2022 by DixonHur

[jimmyjazz 45891]

18 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Please address my question about my 300 aac AR.  What kind of velocity impacts do the subsonic rounds it shoots have? 

I strongly suggest you don't get into it with me regarding kinetic energy and the physics of mass in motion.  Strongly.  

I'm not a shooter, I'm not going to opine on the differences between different rounds.  You know as well as I that some are optimized for damage.  Pick those if you want to kill a bunch of people.

[jimmyjazz 45891]

16 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I thought he was comparing the M16 and AR-15, not the M4. But maybe I'm wrong.

You are correct.  He is a liar and refuses to acknowledge his lie.

[Brian Fantana 6681]

6 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Crimo was wearing a dress at the time of the shooting. According to police, the dress allowed him to better conceal his weapon. 

Cue the blaming trans people in 3...2...

Edited July 5, 2022 by Brian Fantana

[yoladu 4090]

16 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Crimo was wearing a dress at the time of the shooting. According to police, the dress allowed him to better conceal his weapon. 

[4th&Five 41519]

 

[ChiTownDoc 21144]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

so there were only 1000 non-suicide gun deaths last year?  or are you just talking about mass shootings?

I’m talking mass shootings.  Those are the random ones that I’d guess Troph is worried about when she referenced movie theaters and the like in her post.  

[fattyflattie 4639]

15 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

An AR-15 will obliterate your kid, other rifles won't.  Survival rates are different.

Can you post some of these survival rate stats?  I read this AM that 25 of 26 hospitalized were gunshot victims.  Six others perished, 5 onsite.  Doesn't really match the Dr's hyperbolic statement of being "blown up" by this magic 55 grain bullet. 

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I strongly suggest you don't get into it with me regarding kinetic energy and the physics of mass in motion.  Strongly.  

I'm not a shooter, I'm not going to opine on the differences between different rounds.  You know as well as I that some are optimized for damage.  Pick those if you want to kill a bunch of people.

OK professor.  Let's talk about the other dozen chambering avail in the platform, and see which ones perform better because they are fired from the magical AR.  You can dig up the ballistics and use your big physics brain to tell us what you find. 

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You are correct.  He is a liar and refuses to acknowledge his lie.

I misread.  You were having a discussion about a service rifle that started phase out almost 30 years ago.  And comparing the the first iteration of AR to the M16.  A rifle developed in 50's.  All while leaving out the M4, which is probably the closest cousin, and is actually current. Why not muddy up the waters with some 30 carbine and garand talk, thrown in randomly.  I mean, all semiauto weapons of war? Magic pew pews.  

[elfenix 34224]

4 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

No, there’s plenty if people that buy an AR the same reason they live in the burbs and buy an HD pickup, bro culture is serious bidness. The vast majority of gun owners don’t remotely understand what their weapons actually do to human tissue, which is part of the problem. Anyone that buys an AR15 for home defense isn’t a serious person.

tacticool is definitely part of the explanation, check out the sales explosion after the ban on tacticool was lifted:

Edited July 5, 2022 by elfenix
surly can't host webp images, had to convert

[NameAlreadyInUse 5111]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Texags weighs in:

titan

9:28a

 

S

 

What seems safe to say is he is a victim of the Left's anti-male agenda and tone. The narrowing of niches and directions such as he could seek to go. As some have pointed out, he had talent that in the commercial graphics or creative world might have been able to harness. But the whirlpools and eddies set up by making schools into agenda centers and cesspools of cliques and activism have made the adolescent and college years to difficult to navigate for many young men.

Welp.  We had a good run.  Guess it's time to wrap it up.  Too many people are going through life too fact free for us to survive this. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

39 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Please address my question about my 300 aac AR.  What kind of velocity impacts do the subsonic rounds it shoots have?  How is that different that it coming out of the same chambered Ruger bolt action I own? What about when I'm shooting supersonics? Now, do the same for the .223 Wylde and extremely similar .223 bench rifle I own. Would you like to know which of those has a velocity advantage? There's a 6.5 you can speak too as well, if you'd like.  And a host of others. Do they all become more deadly because they are fired out of an AR?  If we determine that the AR 15 chambered in .223 Wylde is the issue, can I keep the others that don't shoot magically destructive bullets?  Or do those become magic once they leave an AR barrel?

You spout shit about how the AR is a special killing machine because it inflicts so much damage completely unaware you don't have a fucking clue what chambering the kid used, what bullets were actually being fired (HP, FMJ, BT, SPT), etc.  Is it likely he's using some green tip 5.56? Yes.  Could he just as easily be using something else? Yes. To speak with conviction like you do is irritating and shows me everything I need to know on this discussion.    Just spouting dumb shit to sound like some kind of internet know it all.  

You've made it clear you found somewhere to place your blame, and you'll spend your time trying to make that blame fit.  Good luck in your quest to outlaw the vaguely specific guns you've placed your blame on.  

Stop being pedantic. His larger point is ARs are dangerous, regardless of caliber or ammo.  An 18 YO can walk into a store and buy an AR off the shelf and a few boxes of white box and shoot up a school or parade. That white box ammo will fucking wreck human bodies just fine without him having a clue about grain, muzzle velo, etc. Mass shooters have a pretty simple formula to follow; semi-auto so they can sling ammo down range quickly, HC magazine so they can shoot more with less downtime while reloading. The driver between AR and pistol really boils down to the need to conceal the weapon before starting.
 

I’m sure if you polled these shooters the bullet type probably wasn’t even considered beyond matching it to whatever they purchased. Why?  Because they aren’t shooting up people wearing body armor, or expecting to have to overpenetrate barriers, or wanting to reduce the report of the weapon to conceal their actions. The bullet has fuck all to do with the mass shooter issue.

[Sawbonz 27542]

11 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

t's talk about the other dozen chambering avail in the platform, and see which ones perform better because they are fired from the magical AR.  You can dig up the ballistics and use your big physics brain to tell us what you find

Is it your position that mass shooters are choosing low mass low velocity ammo?

[fattyflattie 4639]

3 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

His larger point is ARs Remington 700/Winchester 70 are dangerous, regardless of caliber or ammo.

Guns can be dangerous, news at 11.    I made sure to list two platforms you can buy chambered for magic bullets. 

[royiv 9265]

WTF world are we living in when people are having a discussion about survival rates of certain rounds? People are being terrorized by gun violence and we're discussing which bullet has worse/better chance of survival? Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, royiv said:

WTF world are we living in when people are having a discussion about survival rates of certain rounds? People are being terrorized by gun violence and we're discussing which bullet has worse/better chance of survival? Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

This. It's the same dumb "magazine vs. clip" shit and "well what actually is an assault rifle?!"

I don't think the 19 kids and 2 teachers in Uvalde, the 6 people at a 4th of July parade, the 10 people shopping for groceries in Buffalo, or the 23 people in El Paso going to Walmart cared about the ammunition used.

Edited July 5, 2022 by FirstTimeCaller

[bangkok 89]

enough americans don't give a shit about gun restrictions, or any other attempt to control this, to get anything done.

this thread will soon be 1000+ pages, with dozens of other active shooters and mass murders to come.

it's horrific, but the 2nd amendment - as outdated and irrelevant to the status quo as it is - will reign.

and this is particularly true in the climate of the highest court rejecting roe v wade.

i wish there were a beacon of hope in some way, but i don't see it realistically.

mass murders every month, that's what we're signed up for.

[henrygandorf 29189]

5 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I’m talking mass shootings.  Those are the random ones that I’d guess Troph is worried about when she referenced movie theaters and the like in her post.  

my guess is that troph, like most of us, wouldn't worry leaving the house in a country that had their guns under control.

i would also add that it's really tough to compare effects of something completely necessary in society (like cars) to something 100% unnecessary in society (like guns).  it's like people who are afraid to visit california because of earthquakes and fires, or refuse to visit texas and louisiana because of hurricanes, or refuse to visit oklahoma because of the tornados and the smell - some things are just out of our control, while other things aren't.

there were plenty of people that steered clear of federal buildings and crowded sporting events right after 911.  there are still plenty of people that avoid super-crowded areas now because of covid.  there will always be worries and people who are hesitant.  that doesn't mean they've done the math and made sure the level of fear matched the probability of an incident.  most people don't number crunch when they make their plans for the day.

and while in theory, i agree with you, and i'm more of a "let's fucking live our lives and control the things we can control" type of dude, i will also throw this into the equation - there are more "victims" of shootings than just those who end up in the ground.  more even than those who are related or friends with those who end up in the ground. 

if you were at the parade yesterday and heard gunfire and ran in different directions, you aren't counted in the tally of "mass shooting victims" but your life is forever changed.  and yeah, i would assume many of those people have some level of ptsd and will probably take a break from being in crowded public places for a while.  maybe some would consider that living in fear.  i can't say, it hasn't happened to me.

i don't know how kids are gonna grow up and function in the world having to go through active shooter drills all through elementary school through college.  yeah, the percentages are on their side that a shooter will probably never set foot on their campus, but they're still affected.  car accidents, freak occurrences, and acts of nature don't really belong in this comparison.

[Biggus Duckus 86]

4 minutes ago, royiv said:

WTF world are we living in when people are having a discussion about survival rates of certain rounds? People are being terrorized by gun violence and we're discussing which bullet has worse/better chance of survival? Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

All I know is you could have swapped my M4 for a civilian version during my deployment, and I wouldn't have noticed the difference.  Nobody ever uses the 3-round burst mode, and all other things are equal.  And yes, I did use it in combat.

[Brisketexan 105077]

enough americans don't give a shit about gun restrictions, or any other attempt to control this, to get anything done.
this thread will soon be 1000+ pages, with dozens of other active shooters and mass murders to come.
it's horrific, but the 2nd amendment - as outdated and irrelevant to the status quo as it is - will reign.
and this is particularly true in the climate of the highest court rejecting roe v wade.
i wish there were a beacon of hope in some way, but i don't see it realistically.
mass murders every month, that's what we're signed up for.

We might as well pin this thread to the top of the page. There will be another one to chat about in a few days. And let’s just cut and paste the “it’s a super deadly round,” and “the AR is just like any other semi auto platform,” and “magazine not a clip,” and “he was under 25 and bought the gun legally” discussions and reuse them. Save everyone some time typing, so we can devote that time to thoughts and prayers.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, bangkok said:

enough americans don't give a shit about gun restrictions, or any other attempt to control this, to get anything done.

this thread will soon be 1000+ pages, with dozens of other active shooters and mass murders to come.

it's horrific, but the 2nd amendment - as outdated and irrelevant to the status quo as it is - will reign.

and this is particularly true in the climate of the highest court rejecting roe v wade.

i wish there were a beacon of hope in some way, but i don't see it realistically.

mass murders every month, that's what we're signed up for.

Honestly? I think the only chance that something changes is if there are more of them or they continue to push the envelope of atrocities that catch headlines. 

So when 2-3 people carrying ARs end up with a triple-digit body count, then something will change. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Guns can be dangerous, news at 11.    I made sure to list two platforms you can buy chambered for magic bullets. 

Negged for ignoring the entire body of the post. It’s not about the fucking bullet, no matter how much you try to deflect. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

We might as well pin this thread to the top of the page. There will be another one to chat about in a few days. And let’s just cut and paste the “it’s a super deadly round,” and “the AR is just like any other semi auto platform,” and “magazine not a clip,” and “he was under 25 and bought the gun legally” discussions and reuse them. Save everyone some time typing, so we can devote that time to thoughts and prayers.

Have you made phone calls to your representatives since the shooting?

[fattyflattie 4639]

18 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Good fucking lord.  Stop with this.  They are designed to inflict maximum damage via high velocity and tissue destruction.  Who gives a shit how heavy the round is and how much kinetic energy is imparted on launch?  

"Power"?  "Power" is "really effective at killing" in my book, not some bullshit equivocation about rate of dissipation of kinetic energy.

16 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

How about we change the language to "extreme lethality" or something that actually tells the story?

Pointing out that an AR-15 isn't "high" power does nothing but muddy the waters.  Sorry, I won't apologize for understanding the difference.

16 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

How about "guns that blow people up"?

15 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

OK, but there are differences.  An AR-15 will obliterate your kid, other rifles won't.  Survival rates are different.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Is it your position that mass shooters are choosing low mass low velocity ammo?

No.  But there is a reasoning behind pedantic.  See ignorance above.  I have a variant in .22LR.    Tell me how many boxes that one checks from the above statements?

[NameAlreadyInUse 5111]

1 minute ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Have you made phone calls to your representatives since the shooting?

LOL

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

if you were at the parade yesterday and heard gunfire and ran in different directions, you aren't counted in the tally of "mass shooting victims" but your life is forever changed. 

So much this. Uvalde isn't going to be "normal" for a generation. 

[Brisketexan 105077]

Have you made phone calls to your representatives since the shooting?

To be told that they have a 100% rating from the NRA protecting all manner of freedom boom sticks? No, I have more productive things to do, like using a hand mirror to check my taint for unseemly debris.

[ChiTownDoc 21144]

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

my guess is that troph, like most of us, wouldn't worry leaving the house in a country that had their guns under control.

i would also add that it's really tough to compare effects of something completely necessary in society (like cars) to something 100% unnecessary in society (like guns).  it's like people who are afraid to visit california because of earthquakes and fires, or refuse to visit texas and louisiana because of hurricanes, or refuse to visit oklahoma because of the tornados and the smell - some things are just out of our control, while other things aren't.

there were plenty of people that steered clear of federal buildings and crowded sporting events right after 911.  there are still plenty of people that avoid super-crowded areas now because of covid.  there will always be worries and people who are hesitant.  that doesn't mean they've done the math and made sure the level of fear matched the probability of an incident.  most people don't number crunch when they make their plans for the day.

and while in theory, i agree with you, and i'm more of a "let's fucking live our lives and control the things we can control" type of dude, i will also throw this into the equation - there are more "victims" of shootings than just those who end up in the ground.  more even than those who are related or friends with those who end up in the ground. 

if you were at the parade yesterday and heard gunfire and ran in different directions, you aren't counted in the tally of "mass shooting victims" but your life is forever changed.  and yeah, i would assume many of those people have some level of ptsd and will probably take a break from being in crowded public places for a while.  maybe some would consider that living in fear.  i can't say, it hasn't happened to me.

i don't know how kids are gonna grow up and function in the world having to go through active shooter drills all through elementary school through college.  yeah, the percentages are on their side that a shooter will probably never set foot on their campus, but they're still affected.  car accidents, freak occurrences, and acts of nature don't really belong in this comparison.

I’ve been the victim of violent crime.  Feel free to PM me and I’ll send you the video.  Guess I’m not like most.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

LOL

I don't blame you for laughing. It's spitting in the wind. But it's at least something. Much better than letting them think/know that sane people don't give a shit.

[Sawbonz 27542]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

No.  But there is a reasoning behind pedantic.  See ignorance above.  I have a variant in .22LR.    Tell me how many boxes that one checks from the above statements?

What’s the heaviest highest velocity  round you can use in it?

 

eta I’ve taken care of many GSW over the years. I’ve seen a .223 shatter an adult femur. Never had a life or limb threatening injury from a .22 lr

Edited July 5, 2022 by Sawbonz

[jimmyjazz 45891]

24 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

OK professor.  Let's talk about the other dozen chambering avail in the platform, and see which ones perform better because they are fired from the magical AR.  You can dig up the ballistics and use your big physics brain to tell us what you find. 

It doesn't matter if some ammunition is less lethal than others, what matters is that legal ammo available for a legal weapon can wreak mass destruction.

By the way, I was a key engineer in the development of multiple kinetic energy weapons and their power supplies for the Army/DARPA.  You really need to sit this one out.

[TXSG8R 3362]

2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Honestly? I think the only chance that something changes is if there are more of them or they continue to push the envelope of atrocities that catch headlines. 

So when 2-3 people carrying ARs end up with a triple-digit body count, then something will change. 

Nothing will change until people start shooting up legislators and/or their families on the reg. None of the fucks on the right care until they are directly affected. 

[Brisketexan 105077]

So much this. Uvalde isn't going to be "normal" for a generation. 

Wrong. Soon enough, every place will be like Uvalde, and voila, being a traumatized location of gruesome mass shootings will be the new normal….problem solved!

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Negged for ignoring the entire body of the post. It’s not about the fucking bullet, no matter how much you try to deflect. 

But the doctor said this one blows people up.  That's pretty atypical, no? 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

To be told that they have a 100% rating from the NRA protecting all manner of freedom boom sticks? No, I have more productive things to do, like using a hand mirror to check my taint for unseemly debris.

Well, I can tell you it ain't much, but it's better than simply letting them get a free fucking pass or think that the only side that has strong feelings are the "shall not be infringed!!!!1!" crowd.

[Fudge Nuggets 19189]

2 hours ago, Whitewater Horn said:

it’s appearance strikes fear in the hearts of most liberals. 

Its appearance strikes disgust, not fear for this lib. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

What’s the heaviest highest velocity  round you can use in it?

1435.

But my .204 tops over 4400, considerably faster than a 5.56.  

[Brisketexan 105077]

Nothing will change until people start shooting up legislators and/or their families on the reg. None of the fucks on the right care until they are directly affected. 

Yeah, what you’re speaking to is a particularly deadly affliction modern American society suffers from: a complete lack of empathy. All problems, no matter how horrific, aren’t actually problems until they affect YOU. It’s fucking sick, but there we are.
Nothing will change until a legislature is shot up (and at this rate, it’s just a matter of time). And then, maybe. They’ll be treated as isolated apostates by the rest of the GQP even then.

[fattyflattie 4639]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It doesn't matter if some ammunition is less lethal than others, what matters is that legal ammo available for a legal weapon can wreak mass destruction.

By the way, I was a key engineer in the development of multiple kinetic energy weapons and their power supplies for the Army/DARPA.  You really need to sit this one out.

You need to tell me if an AR makes my 300 AAC more or less dangerous.  Or are you going to continue to avoid that because it doesn't jive with your bullshit.  

[Fudge Nuggets 19189]

Fucking bullet dorks. 

[royiv 9265]

Take the bullet talk to the gun nuts thread on the hobbies board. This shit is getting tiresome.

[fattyflattie 4639]

7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

What’s the heaviest highest velocity  round you can use in it?

 

eta I’ve taken care of many GSW over the years. I’ve seen a .223 shatter an adult femur. Never had a life or limb threatening injury from a .22 lr

Then you agree.  It really doesn't have much at all to do with the platform.  Who could have ever guessed that?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, what you’re speaking to is a particularly deadly affliction modern American society suffers from: a complete lack of empathy. All problems, no matter how horrific, aren’t actually problems until they affect YOU. It’s fucking sick, but there we are.
Nothing will change until a legislature is shot up (and at this rate, it’s just a matter of time). And then, maybe. They’ll be treated as isolated apostates by the rest of the GQP even then.

Steve Scalise says "Eh, you'd be surprised. Those NRA dollars can really make you think twice."

Nothing changes until 1) Guns are no longer "cool" in the eyes of so many 2) Being pro-gun is seen as a negative for a politician.

[Surly Bevo 24908]

Any hack can take a gun of whatever caliber and if he can pop off 20-30 rounds in 10 seconds do a lot of damage.  So instead of arguing about this rifle or that round let's be simple

1.  No new semi-auto rifles to be produced and sold in the U.S.

2.  Buyback program for existing semi-auto rifles for x period.  

3.  After buy-back period ends, institute licensing/insurance requirements for all semi-auto rifles still In possession (politicos and insurance companies are greedy fucks who love to fill each other's pockets so let's put that to use here).  

4.  No new hand gun magazines to be produced or sold in U.S. that have capacity greater than 10 rounds

Does it immediately solve all problems?  Fuck no.  Will criminals still have guns?  Yea.  But the journey of a thousand miles has to start with a step and there is a lot of blood to dry up so maybe we go ya know....get some towels.  

Edited July 5, 2022 by Surly Bevo

[jimmyjazz 45891]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You need to tell me if an AR makes my 300 AAC more or less dangerous.  Or are you going to continue to avoid that because it doesn't jive with your bullshit.  

I have no idea if that particular cartridge is suitable for use in an AR-15, much less "better" or "worse" than other available ammo.  What I do know is that it is possible to legally purchase ammo for the AR-15 that will inflict immense damage on the human body, and because of the gun's capabilities, it can do so to many humans in a short amount of time.

Why are you such a disingenuous gun freak?

[Bama Chick 28596]

WTF world are we living in when people are having a discussion about survival rates of certain rounds? People are being terrorized by gun violence and we're discussing which bullet has worse/better chance of survival? Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

I know, right?

It’s just more gun nut deflections.

[Sawbonz 27542]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

Then you agree.  It really doesn't have much at all to do with the platform.  Who could have ever guessed that?

What matters most is capacity, firing rate and access by murderous psychos. For some reason they prefer the AR platform. Ban it as well as high capacity magazines and see what happens. If they switch platforms bam that one as well. 

[DDD Dad 14326]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Please address my question about my 300 aac AR.  What kind of velocity impacts do the subsonic rounds it shoots have?  How is that different that it coming out of the same chambered Ruger bolt action I own? What about when I'm shooting supersonics? Now, do the same for the .223 Wylde and extremely similar .223 bench rifle I own. Would you like to know which of those has a velocity advantage? There's a 6.5 you can speak too as well, if you'd like.  And a host of others. Do they all become more deadly because they are fired out of an AR?  If we determine that the AR 15 chambered in .223 Wylde is the issue, can I keep the others that don't shoot magically destructive bullets?  Or do those become magic once they leave an AR barrel?

You spout shit about how the AR is a special killing machine because it inflicts so much damage completely unaware you don't have a fucking clue what chambering the kid used, what bullets were actually being fired (HP, FMJ, BT, SPT), etc.  Is it likely he's using some green tip 5.56? Yes.  Could he just as easily be using something else? Yes. To speak with conviction like you do is irritating and shows me everything I need to know on this discussion.    Just spouting dumb shit to sound like some kind of internet know it all.  

You've made it clear you found somewhere to place your blame, and you'll spend your time trying to make that blame fit.  Good luck in your quest to outlaw the vaguely specific guns you've placed your blame on.  

Can we get back to talking magazines versus clips?