Active shooter thread

[Brisketexan 104465]

12 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I've ready this before and it always irks me that squishy progressives (no doubt motivated by the noble desire too destigmatize and thus ignore mental illness) will frequently point to the that "psychosis" does not play a primary role and therefore we can have a "just gun control" strategy, despite the fact that NEARLY ALL persons are in a state of crisis, half of them let people know before hand, and that suicidal ideation precedes the event in the vast majority of young shooters. In other words, any solution required more forward leaning supportive care. And besides all that, more forward leaning approaches to public health and mental healthcare would also help address the needs of millions of families in crisis who don't love someone that ends of shooting lots of people. Can you imagine? We could actually care for each other if we wanted. 

Emphasized for all the reasons.

We don't want to help each other, or look out for each other.  The only "virtue" with any social currency value is "how selfish and cruel can I be?"  Everything else is a liability, not an asset.

[Anastasis 23375]

19 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I've ready this before and it always irks me that squishy progressives (no doubt motivated by the noble desire too destigmatize and thus ignore mental illness) will frequently point to the that "psychosis" does not play a primary role and therefore we can have a "just gun control" strategy, despite the fact that NEARLY ALL persons are in a state of crisis, half of them let people know before hand, and that suicidal ideation precedes the event in the vast majority of young shooters. In other words, any solution required more forward leaning supportive care. And besides all that, more forward leaning approaches to public health and mental healthcare would also help address the needs of millions of families in crisis who don't love someone that ends of shooting lots of people. Can you imagine? We could actually care for each other if we wanted. 

Yeah, that bit jumped out to me as well. Not sure why they appear to limit mental illness to psychosis in that section of the write up. 

WRT to the broader healthcare issues, I think that generally speaking our chief problem is a dysfunctional healthcare funding system.  Our healthcare infrastructure is not, generally speaking, the problem. At least conceptually, the funding mechanisms are a fairly easy to fix. At least proposals can be clearly articulated. WRT mental healthcare in particular, we have the joy of both a dysfunctional funding system, a completely broken infrastructure, societal headwinds in terms of perception and stigma, and therapeutics that are based on extremely basic and arguably outdated understanding of the pathophysiology. There is a whole lot more than just "caring" necessary to crack that nut.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Emphasized for all the reasons.

We don't want to help each other, or look out for each other.  The only "virtue" with any social currency value is "how selfish and cruel can I be?"  Everything else is a liability, not an asset.

The beatitudes are for pussies. Take a look at this exemplar of masculine virtue.

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Bozo_Casanova

[Brisketexan 104465]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

There is a whole lot more than just "caring" necessary to crack that nut.  

Counterpoint: none of those issues even get DISCUSSED unless we start with giving a shit.

And we don't.  So the report you posted, and your entire post, are just masturbation.  We are 100X more likely to further CRIPPLE our healthcare and mental healthcare apparatus and funding than we are to improve them.  Because it's politically more powerful to show how tough you are on snowflakes who just won't take care of themselves.

[4th&Five 41457]

 

[jimmyjazz 45513]

32 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I found this to be pretty interesting.  

It might have something to do with this...according to the data behind the study (it's free if you ask):

1. Between 1966 - 1989 there were 38 mass shootings (241 dead), 7 of these shootings (16 %) were committed with an assault style rifle (mostly AK-47's)
2. Between 1990 - 2009 there were 75 mass shootings (450 dead), 12 (18%) via assault rifle (a few more with UZI's but I didn't count those) - NOTE Assault Weapons Ban was from 1994 - 2004
3. From 2010 to present there have been 66 mass shootings (602 dead).  25 of these shootings (38%) were committed using an assault rifle.  17 of which were AR-15's

Anyone who doesn't see the proliferation of assault rifles being a problem is either stupid, or just doesn't give a fuck.

I will take your data as accurate, although I don't know what communities/states are represented.  (Totals seem low for the whole US, but that's apparently what the data reflect.)  Look at it on an annual basis:

1966-1989:  1.65 mass shootings per year (on average, 6.3 deaths per shooting)

1990-2009:  3.95 mass shootings per year (on average, 6.1 deaths per shooting)

2010-present:  5.5 mass shootings per year (on average, 9.1 deaths per shooting)

 

So, mass shootings are rising, and fatalities per shooting are rising.  Great.  No problem.

Edited July 7, 2022 by jimmyjazz

[Brisketexan 104465]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The beatitudes are for pussies. Take a look at this exemplar of masculine virtue.

 

And your post couldn't capture the dichotomy between christianity and American christianity any better.  Although this cartoon gets there:

[DixonHur 11074]

24 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Why would you not count an uzi?  Is high capacity magazines not a factor?

Because I didn't want the discussion to devolve the "that's not an assault rifle" debate.

[BabaYaga 15202]

22 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I’m not going to go back and forth so the board can neg name another 100 times. But there are studies on this. Trust me, I’ve argued with @BabaYaga on it vs a 12g a million times (I was always a shotgun under the bed guy) Apparently buckshot is very bad for penetrating walls, worse than other rounds you’d not expect.  
 

And I agree that yes, lil bro is (was) a highly trained and efficient firearm operator. It’d be nice if everyone trained a lot and never had to use the training. 

Yep.  I forget the FBI study, but as a HD option, the shotgun is among the worst.

It has a limited capacity, excessive recoil, & fired indoors, will box the shit out of your ears and make a follow up shot tough to make.  Inside a home or near one, it's essentially a rifle with 3-4 rounds.  Have fun with that.  People think the patterns disburse quickly.  They don't.  Even bird shot (which is stupid) indoors will be a very tight pattern.  Over-penetration of interior walls is also among the worst for safety of others in the home.  Shot both over-penetrates and is redirected everywhere (see FBI ballistic gel tests)

Pistols are fine and what I use, but they are hard as SHIT to use effectively.  EX.  When you get an adrenaline dump, the first thing that goes to shit are your fine motor skills.  As long as you're not using FMJ's, modern SD ammo is good about not over-penetrating

A rifle is always your best option.  Long sight radius and you can hold with two hands and anchor into your soldier.  With a light and a red dot, you have a chance of actually hitting what you are aiming at in low light.  With HP/SD rounds, they rarely over-penetrate and the mag capacity is strong.  

They do make SD buckshot rounds, that have cuts in them like fishing weights so they deform on impact.  That still only gives you 3-4 chances to hit your target or make a follow-up shot after your head in ringing from the blast.  

[TexasHooch 5117]

22 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, that bit jumped out to me as well. Not sure why they appear to limit mental illness to psychosis in that section of the write up. 

WRT to the broader healthcare issues, I think that generally speaking our chief problem is a dysfunctional healthcare funding system.  Our healthcare infrastructure is not, generally speaking, the problem. At least conceptually, the funding mechanisms are a fairly easy to fix. At least proposals can be clearly articulated. WRT mental healthcare in particular, we have the joy of both a dysfunctional funding system, a completely broken infrastructure, societal headwinds in terms of perception and stigma, and therapeutics that are based on extremely basic and arguably outdated understanding of the pathophysiology. There is a whole lot more than just "caring" necessary to crack that nut.  

I'm not going to speak for James, but I can tell you that in my conversations with him, he's given me the impression that mental health support and crisis intervention is absolutely critical.  And I don't think they're limiting mental illness only to psychosis, as much as they are highlighting it 1) because it's more acute than other disorders and easier to establish a link (rather than just an association), and 2) in order to address the common thinking that mass shootings are most commonly associated with someone "snapping". 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by TexasHooch

[Satchel 6908]

42 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I bowed out immediately.
 

Let’s get back on track.  Guns are terrible!1!!  Republicans are Nazis!!1!  

It is true that guns are nothing more than hunks of steel designed to kill, injure and maim. Republicans are what Trump says they are.

[Vegas64 657]

33 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Emphasized for all the reasons.

We don't want to help each other, or look out for each other.  The only "virtue" with any social currency value is "how selfish and cruel can I be?"  Everything else is a liability, not an asset.

America in 2022 wants to help each other and look out for each other. But only if they look and act and sound like one of their own tribe. We are impossibly broken and splintered. Political Cartoon thread and New Yorker cover out front shoulda told ya.

[Vegas64 657]

13 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

The dad needs to have some charges drawn up on him IMO. Criminal negligence or something akin to that for you law types. I'm sure they can find something to punitively throw at him.

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

9 minutes ago, TexasHooch said:

I'm not going to speak for James, but I can tell you that in my conversations with him, he's given me the impression that mental health support and crisis intervention is absolutely critical.  And I don't think they're limiting mental illness only to psychosis, as much as they are highlighting it 1) because it's more acute than other disorders and easier to establish a link (rather than just an association), and 2) in order to address the common thinking that mass shootings are most commonly associated with someone "snapping". 

 

Just to be clear although you were addressing anastasis - I wasn't talking about your friend about "squishy progressives". Sorry if I gave that impression. I took his point. I'm talking about when the data around illness are selectively cited by others.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Bozo_Casanova

[Brisketexan 104465]

7 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

America in 2022 wants to help each other and look out for each other. But only if they look and act and sound like one of their own tribe.

But....I mean....is it even THAT?  Look at the Republican infighting, and how anyone who deviates in the slightest from the most extreme vision of "MAGA" is an apostated, traitor, and RINO.  We live in a world where Liz Cheney -- LIZ CHENEY -- is being drummed out of the party for being a libtard traitor.

No, the only value is how fucking mean and nuts you can be.

[Hornius Emeritus 12403]

12 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Yep.  I forget the FBI study, but as a HD option, the shotgun is among the worst.

It has a limited capacity, excessive recoil, & fired indoors, will box the shit out of your ears and make a follow up shot tough to make.  Inside a home or near one, it's essentially a rifle with 3-4 rounds.  Have fun with that.  People think the patterns disburse quickly.  They don't.  Even bird shot (which is stupid) indoors will be a very tight pattern.  Over-penetration of interior walls is also among the worst for safety of others in the home.  Shot both over-penetrates and is redirected everywhere (see FBI ballistic gel tests)

Pistols are fine and what I use, but they are hard as SHIT to use effectively.  EX.  When you get an adrenaline dump, the first thing that goes to shit are your fine motor skills.  As long as you're not using FMJ's, modern SD ammo is good about not over-penetrating

A rifle is always your best option.  Long sight radius and you can hold with two hands and anchor into your soldier.  With a light and a red dot, you have a chance of actually hitting what you are aiming at in low light.  With HP/SD rounds, they rarely over-penetrate and the mag capacity is strong.  

They do make SD buckshot rounds, that have cuts in them like fishing weights so they deform on impact.  That still only gives you 3-4 chances to hit your target or make a follow-up shot after your head in ringing from the blast.  

This is why I wear Orvis shooter's ear protection at all times in the house.

[fattyflattie 4636]

15 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Even bird shot (which is stupid) indoors will be a very tight pattern.

Unfortunately, my face/neck/body can vouch for what it looks like at 35 yds.  

[fattyflattie 4636]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But....I mean....is it even THAT?  Look at the Republican infighting, and how anyone who deviates in the slightest from the most extreme vision of "MAGA" is an apostated, traitor, and RINO.  We live in a world where Liz Cheney -- LIZ CHENEY -- is being drummed out of the party for being a libtard traitor.

No, the only value is how fucking mean and nuts you can be.

I believe this is because of the near 50/50 split. Stakes are too high. You take 5 R’s away, it will get worse. You add 5, there’s room for a Maverick or Romney. 

[BabaYaga 15202]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Unfortunately, my face/neck/body can vouch for what it looks like at 35 yds.  

[TexasHooch 5117]

9 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Just to be clear although you were addressing anastasis - I wasn't talking about your friend about "squishy progressives". Sorry if I gave that impression. I took his point. I'm talking about when the data around illness are selectively cited by others.

Thanks for the clarification, I did think you were referencing the research.  I was just making the point that I think they agree with you.

 

From a different article from the same authors:

Quote

Mass shootings are not an inevitable fact of American life; they’re preventable. But for too long, America has either viewed possible solutions to mass shootings in isolation or created false dichotomies that are pitted against each other, from gun safety measures to mental health treatment. Even when solutions have merit, they are then wrongly dismissed for being imperfect. The reality is that imperfections do not render solutions useless. There is no one solution to this problem. As with Swiss cheese, there are holes—but if you layer the slices, one on top of the other, the holes start to get covered up.

https://time.com/6184653/mass-shootings-america-how-to-stop/

[tokamak 6350]

21 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

This is why I wear Orvis shooter's ear protection at all times in the house.

Works great for the wife and kids, too.

[jimmyjazz 45513]

7 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Works great for the wife and kids, too.

. . . meaning when you wear them you can't hear your wife and kids?

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

34 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Yep.  I forget the FBI study, but as a HD option, the shotgun is among the worst.

We should probably have this debate on the gun or ammo thread, but I keep coming back to "compared to what?" I have seen this data and am unconvinced, particularly vs 5.56. 
Personally, I think they are all bad options - My home protection has 4 legs and barks. Anyway we can take it elsewhere. 

[BabaYaga 15202]

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

We should probably have this debate on the gun or ammo thread, but I keep coming back to "compared to what?" I have seen this data and am unconvinced, particularly vs 5.56. 
Personally, I think they are all bad options - My home protection has 4 legs and barks. Anyway we can take it elsewhere. 

Same.  My dogs are territorial and if something happened, are the best alarm system I can think of.

[jimmyjazz 45513]

42 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

America in 2022 wants to help each other and look out for each other. But only if they look and act and sound like one of their own tribe. 

No.  This is not representative of the average centrist, liberal, or progressive.  I am a white, fairly liberal, upper middle class male and I absolutely want to help minorities and those who have less financial security, and I do so in my own meager ways.  In no way do I try to carve out (for instance) people who need assistance but voted for Trump.

[RomaVicta 29756]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I've ready this before and it always irks me that squishy progressives (no doubt motivated by the noble desire too destigmatize and thus ignore mental illness) will frequently point to the that "psychosis" does not play a primary role and therefore we can have a "just gun control" strategy, despite the fact that NEARLY ALL persons are in a state of crisis, half of them let people know before hand, and that suicidal ideation precedes the event in the vast majority of young shooters. In other words, any solution required more forward leaning supportive care. And besides all that, more forward leaning approaches to public health and mental healthcare would also help address the needs of millions of families in crisis who don't love someone that ends of shooting lots of people. Can you imagine? We could actually care for each other if we wanted. 

I've written before how I don't like the lazy press immediately focusing on the gun used and where it was purchased. Then they follow with the same panels saying the same things about the need for gun laws. That is part of the problem, to be sure.

The TV press does not want to tackle grey subjects like mental health because it's more difficult to assemble hard facts about it. Nor is there a clear path to deal with the problems of mental health. They prefer covering what they're comfortable with.

Now with the NRA-owned GOP, you have them taking the mental health side as though the problem can only be one of gun control vs mental health. As you write, it's both. It's also our lone gunman mythology and constant repeating of stories where the solution is killing the evil. The world is not that simple, but that's how too many people have been trained and brainwashed to like it.

[jimmyjazz 45513]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Same.  My dogs are territorial and if something happened, are the best alarm system I can think of.

I'm not so lucky.  Territorial, absolutely.  A threat?  Eh, no.

[RomaVicta 29756]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Emphasized for all the reasons.

We don't want to help each other, or look out for each other.  The only "virtue" with any social currency value is "how selfish and cruel can I be?"  Everything else is a liability, not an asset.

The Americans were persuaded to think of themselves as tax-payers rather than citizens. 

Good citizenship is scorned by a huge plurality in this country. Woke and Social Justice Warrior are cutting epithets to them.

[BabaYaga 15202]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not so lucky.  Territorial, absolutely.  A threat?  Eh, no.

Nobody's dog is really going to protect them.  They alert you and buy you time.

When my uncle passed, his wife had geese on the outside and chihuahuas on the inside.  Nobody would get within 100yds of that house without her knowing it.

[Vegas64 657]

For you data guys, I have linked this guy before but David Epstein (author of Range) has a concise weekly newsletter that is usually pretty good. He tackles "bad data" a lot in this posts and this week is around gun violence and gun laws and he makes some interesting points if anyone is interested in reading further:

https://davidepstein.bulletin.com/why-comparing-gun-ownership-rates-across-states-shouldn-t-inform-policy

[royiv 9131]

21 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Personally, I think they are all bad options - My home protection has 4 legs and barks. Anyway we can take it elsewhere. 

Yep. I asked a cop friend one time what was the best home protection that I could have. With no hesitation he said a big dog with a big bark. Serves as a deterrent and protection since the bad guy can see and hear the dog before they try to get into your home.

[Nivek 16808]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Recent study profiling mass shootings since 1966.

https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/public-mass-shootings-database-amasses-details-half-century-us-mass-shootings

Full report @: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/302101.pdf

Persons who committed public mass shootings in the U.S. over the last half century were commonly troubled by personal trauma before their shooting incidents, nearly always in a state of crisis at the time, and, in most cases, engaged in leaking their plans before opening fire. Most were insiders of a targeted institution, such as an employee or student. Except for young school shooters who stole the guns from family members, most used legally obtained handguns in those shootings.

Those are prominent traits of persons who have engaged in public mass shootings – that is, a shooting that kills four or more people[1] – collected in a comprehensive new database of identified U.S. mass shootings from 1966 to 2019. The data on 172 mass public shooters cover more than 150 psychosocial history variables, such as those individuals’ mental health history, past trauma, interest in past shootings, and situational triggers.

With support from the National Institute of Justice, The Violence Project database has drawn data exclusively from open sources such as social media sites and online newspapers. The aim is to build a broader understanding on the part of the public, the justice system, and the research community of who mass shooters are and what motivates their decision to discharge firearms at multiple people.

As part of the project, researchers also separately interviewed persons in prison who had engaged in mass shootings, in part to look for shared traits.

...

Other Key Findings and Applicability

Trauma, Suicidality, and Crisis

Suicidality was found to be a strong predictor of perpetration of mass shootings. Of all mass shooters in the The Violence Project database, 30% were suicidal prior to the shooting. An additional 39% were suicidal during the shooting. Those numbers were significantly higher for younger shooters, with K-12 students who engaged in mass shootings found to be suicidal in 92% of instances and college/university students who engaged in mass shooting suicidal 100% of the time.

In terms of past trauma, 31% of persons who perpetrated mass shootings were found to have experiences of severe childhood trauma, and over 80% were in crisis.

Trauma was a common element of the backgrounds of those committing mass shooting, both in the database and the qualitative studies. Early intervention through school-based services may be a key component of early prevention.

Addressing Trauma

NIJ’s CrimeSolutions has rated programs as effective or promising for reducing the impact of trauma on youth. See:

Cognitive Behavioral Intervention for Trauma in Schools (CBITS)

Bounce Back

Enhancing Resiliency Amongst Student Experiencing Stress (ERASE-Stress) in Israel

Crisis / Mental Illness

In public discourse, mass shootings are often blamed on mental illness. But the research indicates the role of mental illness in mass shootings is complicated, not clear-cut. Mental health issues were common among those who engaged in mass shootings, with psychosis playing a minor role in nearly one third of the cases, but a primary role 10% of the time.

The data indicate, however, that nearly all persons who engage in mass shootings were in state of crisis in the days or weeks preceding the shooting.

Warning Signs — Leakage

Nearly half of individuals who engaged in mass shootings (48%) leaked their plans in advance to others, including family members, friends, and colleagues, as well as strangers and law enforcement officers. Legacy tokens, such as manifestos, were left behind by 23.4% of those who committed mass shootings. About 70% of individuals who perpetrated mass shooting knew at least some of their victims. In particular, K-12 school and workplace shooters were “insiders” — current or former students and employees. That finding has implications for physical security measures and the use of active shooter drills.

The fact that leakage is a common occurrence with mass shootings provides an opportunity for intervention. Anonymous reporting systems may increase the likelihood of leakage and is an important area for more research. Threat assessment teams that intervene with a holistic, collaborative approach to intervention are promising.

Firearms

Notably, most individuals who engaged in mass shootings used handguns (77.2%), and 25.1% used assault rifles in the commission of their crimes. Of the known mass shooting cases (32.5% of cases could not be confirmed), 77% of those who engaged in mass shootings purchased at least some of their guns legally, while illegal purchases were made by 13% of those committing mass shootings. In cases involving K-12 school shootings, over 80% of individuals who engaged in shootings stole guns from family members.

The findings support safe storage of guns. Yet, the researchers noted that there are no federal laws requiring safe storage of guns, and no federal standards for firearm locks. The data also support “red flag” laws permitting law enforcement or family members to petition a state court to order temporary removal of a firearm from a person who presents a danger.

Motivation Over Time

Since the 1970s, the only statistically significant change in motivations for mass shootings is the decrease in shootings motivated by employment issues.

Script

The data show that many individuals who engage in mass shootings study past mass shooters — one in five (21.6%) studied other mass shooters, and many are radicalized online. The researchers recommended media literacy education as a means of helping people critically consume information and counter extremist propaganda that facilitates violence.

Mass Shooting Demographics

Of the 172 individuals who engaged in public mass shootings covered in the database, 97.7% were male. Ages ranged from 11 to 70, with a mean age of 34.1. Those  shooting were 52.3% White, 20.9% Black, 8.1% Latino, 6.4% Asian, 4.2% Middle Eastern, and 1.8% Native American.

Most individuals who perpetrated mass shootings had a prior criminal record (64.5%) and a history of violence (62.8%), including domestic violence (27.9%). And 28.5% had a military background. Most died on the scene of the public mass shooting, with 38.4% dying by their own hand and 20.3% killed by law enforcement officers.

Locations of Mass Shootings

Locations of public mass shootings, by percentage of all occurrences in the database, were:

Location Percent

Workplace 30.8

Retail establishment 16.9

Bar or restaurant 13.4

Residential location 8.1

Outdoors 8.1

K-12 school 7.6

Place of worship 6.4

College or university 5.2

Government or place of civic importance 3.5

Interviews

The research team cautioned that the qualitative data, from five interviews, did not lend themselves to generalization, because each individual’s story is unique. There was no single profile of a person who engaged in a mass shooting, but the interviewed mass shooters shared the following traits:

Early childhood trauma and exposure to violence.

An identifiable grievance or crisis point.

Validation of beliefs — finding inspiration in past shootings by others.

The means to carry out an attack.

Other Limitations

The database used open source data, leaving room for bias, the researchers noted, because the source data were originally gathered for different purposes. Media outlets have their own biases, in terms of coverage of different mass shootings. Generally, the report noted, certain categories of mass shootings tended to attract the most coverage. They include bias in favor of coverage of mass shootings related to:

K-12 schools

Military bases

Higher body counts or younger victims

Assault rifles

Clustered with other shootings

The researchers cautioned readers to interpret mass shooting trends over time with caution, in light of the fact that mass shootings are extreme and rare events.

The last sentence seems a bit of an issue for me.   Sure the shootings at schools are relatively rare.  But that relatively part keeps shrinking relatively.    Maybe they should plot it on a frequency spectrum and show how the wavelength decreases with time instead of just lumping it all together.  They have the data, fucking use it. 

From Wiki's source.  This is the change in frequency between mass shootings at schools.   

[washparkhorn 9931]

Blaming “Squishy Progressives” for the consequences of neoliberalism championed by Reagan is absurd and utter bullshit. 
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8145185/

Mental Health Challenges Related to Neoliberal Capitalism in the United States

Anna Zeira

Additional article information

Abstract

Rates of mental illness have increased dramatically over the past 15 years in the United States [Products—Data Briefs—Number 283—August 2017. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db283.htm. Published August 15, 2017].
 

Additionally, life expectancy has fallen over the past several years due to increases in death from suicide, opioid overdose, and alcoholic liver cirrhosis as reported by Case and Deaton [Deaths of despair and the future of capitalism. Princeton University Press, 2020]. 

Over the last decade some have questioned whether these changes are due to neoliberal capitalist policies and ideologies.

Neoliberal capitalism incorporates theories of eliminating all restrictions on the market and decreasing government assistance programs as reported by Harvey [A brief history of neoliberalism, Oxford University Press, 2005].

Since then these policies have led to income inequality, disempowerment of workers, outsourcing of manufacturing jobs, inadequate social services, mass incarceration and an expensive and ineffective healthcare system as reported by Case and Deaton [Deaths of despair and the future of capitalism. Princeton University Press, 2020] and Nkansah-Amankra et al. [International Journal of Health Services 43(2):217-240, 2013].

Studies have shown that the consequences of these policies and ideologies likely have a role in increasing rates of mental illness. This paper will discuss how these factors increase mental distress and postulate ways that mental health professionals can advocate for change.

[jimmyjazz 45513]

Not to dispute your point @Nivek, but that's a weird plot.  It's not functional.  There are multiple Y values for certain ranges of X (year).  

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

6 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Blaming “Squishy Progressives” for the consequences of neoliberalism championed by Reagan is absurd and utter bullshit. 

Sure, they should never be blamed for (checks notes) losing durable majorities in key states because they don't want to campaign in them or engage with the salient issues in communities they need to win. BLAME REAGAN!

[washparkhorn 9931]

8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Sure, they should never be blamed for (checks notes) losing durable majorities in key states because they don't want to campaign in them or engage with the salient issues in communities they need to win. BLAME REAGAN!

Onward Neoliberal Soldiers. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by washparkhorn

[Biff Tannen 45477]

Has anything been brought up anywhere in Congress for gun control?  Or is that all moot because they just passed a bill that basically does nothing?

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

10 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Has anything been brought up anywhere in Congress for gun control?  Or is that all moot because they just passed a bill that basically does nothing?

You got it

[Nivek 16808]

16 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Not to dispute your point @Nivek, but that's a weird plot.  It's not functional.  There are multiple Y values for certain ranges of X (year).  

It was hastily put together but illustrates the overall point about the increasing frequency.   I took the years, subtracted the difference between incidents to generate the Y data.  The X axis is the date of the mass shootings.   In several instances, there were multiple shootings within the same year.  

 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

You got it

I knew it was probably rhetorical, but just wanted to make sure. I’ve given up hope. I’ll vote in 2022 and 2024, but I’m out after that. It won’t matter anyway. 

[wildcat09 29187]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, that bit jumped out to me as well. Not sure why they appear to limit mental illness to psychosis in that section of the write up. 

WRT to the broader healthcare issues, I think that generally speaking our chief problem is a dysfunctional healthcare funding system.  Our healthcare infrastructure is not, generally speaking, the problem. At least conceptually, the funding mechanisms are a fairly easy to fix. At least proposals can be clearly articulated. WRT mental healthcare in particular, we have the joy of both a dysfunctional funding system, a completely broken infrastructure, societal headwinds in terms of perception and stigma, and therapeutics that are based on extremely basic and arguably outdated understanding of the pathophysiology. There is a whole lot more than just "caring" necessary to crack that nut.  

Getting people to seek mental health care is a pretty big hurdle as well. That's still pretty heavily stigmatized among some of the people who need it the most.

[Biff Tannen 45477]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Getting people to seek mental health care is a pretty big hurdle as well. That's still pretty heavily stigmatized among some of the people who need it the most.

Don’t judge me.

[TexasHooch 5117]

35 minutes ago, Nivek said:

The last sentence seems a bit of an issue for me.   Sure the shootings at schools are relatively rare.  But that relatively part keeps shrinking relatively.    Maybe they should plot it on a frequency spectrum and show how the wavelength decreases with time instead of just lumping it all together.  They have the data, fucking use it. 

From Wiki's source.  This is the change in frequency between mass shootings at schools.   

It's a short summary of general findings. As any good researcher should, they acknowledge the fact that there is a small data set. If you want the full interpretation of findings, with trends and recommendations, they spend 240 pages doing it in the book.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Has anything been brought up anywhere in Congress for gun control?  Or is that all moot because they just passed a bill that basically does nothing?

We'll have to see, but I'd be tempted to argue it does worse than nothing. By not actually making meaningful change, it allows Congress to say "we tried" and keep kicking the can down the road.

 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

1 minute ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

We'll have to see, but I'd be tempted to argue it does worse than nothing. By not actually making meaningful change, it allows Congress to say "we tried" and keep kicking the can down the road.

 

This is my concern. One step above “we’ve tried nothing and we’re out of ideas”. They knew this bill was worthless, but they are already hanging their hat (and the media too) on how it’s the BIGGEST GUN CONTROL MEASURE IN DECADES. Meanwhile, shootings will continue, but this buys them probably 10 years-eternity. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

The dad needs to have some charges drawn up on him IMO. Criminal negligence or something akin to that for you law types. I'm sure they can find something to punitively throw at him.

Fuck that. Charge him with exactly what they’re charging his son with - 7 counts of murder.

[Vegas64 657]

1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

Fuck that. Charge him with exactly what they’re charging his some with - 7 counts of murder.

Yea cool. Whatever will work and stick and see some legal culpability. I'm not a lawyer and don't pretend to be one on TV so that's why I couched it with criminal negligence or something vague enough to stick but not too prescriptive to be beaten legally or by technicality.

[InkaUtexas 25426]

9 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Fuck that. Charge him with exactly what they’re charging his some with - 7 counts of murder.

Yep, agree. He knew. My son recently asked me for a pistol. I told him go get classes, get your permit and buy one with your salary. The only weapon my father gave me is historical and he knows my fascination with Airborne ops. 

Want a gun? Qualify and buy your own. 

[Satchel 6908]

2 hours ago, TexasHooch said:

Thanks for the clarification, I did think you were referencing the research.  I was just making the point that I think they agree with you.

 

From a different article from the same authors:

https://time.com/6184653/mass-shootings-america-how-to-stop/

It seems odd to me that a young dad can take his toddler and wife to a parade, end of being shot to death while shielding his kid from body destroying bullets, kid becomes an orphan and all we do is shake our heads because we don’t want to overreact while we await the next massacre of innocents.
it doesn’t seem real because it shouldn’t be. What is wrong with us? 

[miguelito 11204]

It's like Boys From Brazil, but we're trying to create the next Batman.