Active shooter thread

[ultimaton 2966]

58 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

 

[Bullneck 19073]

 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

27 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

 

 

Ooh! Ooh! I think I know!

To sell more guns!

[Helobious 9451]

2 hours ago, TexEx15 said:

 

Apparently an armed civilian took him out. Put that one on the scoreboard for Good Guy with Guns. They were in a drought for a while, but lucky for them they will have plenty more opportunities to close the gap. Murica.

[tchookem 3900]

Apparently an armed civilian took him out. Put that one on the scoreboard for Good Guy with Guns. They were in a drought for a while, but lucky for them they will have plenty more opportunities to close the gap. Murica.

"It could have been worse" is a horrible substitute for "this is acceptable".

Not trying to put words in your mouth, [mention=2291]Helobious[/mention] just commenting on the shitty situation we've created for ourselves.

[cabowabo 4484]

6 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

That Luby’s shooting was a huge deal and was a catalyst for changing gun laws in Texas to where we are now.  So many people bought into the idea that the gunman could have been dropped if someone was carrying. One of the survivors was big into lobbying for CC when it got passed under W. 

So many lawful concealed handgun carriers murdering innocent people.  How dare they be allowed to protect themselves or others. 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11023227/Four-killed-including-shooter-three-injured-Indiana-mall-shooting.html

Edited July 18, 2022 by cabowabo

[pyrohornIII 4814]

8 hours ago, Bullneck said:

Color me surprised anything negative actually was published.  

Incident Command Ops are built to transfer IC to more qualified leadership as it come on scene.  Arrendondo could have tried to do that, but there might have not been a clear chain of authority here.  I would have thought DPS or Texas Ranger at the very least.  I doubt seriously he was IC through the whole incident.  If he was, then that's a state failure to not have that handover training in place.    I know our local school goes through this training every year and firm plans are in place as to first response through to the final ops.      I'm not defending Arrendondo, but I can also see how this could break down easily with muddied communication and unsure of who has authority to issue commands.  

The problem with ICS is that it is cumbersome and intricate, and it's easy to forget where your spot is in the system as new personnel are added.  Most of mine is based on firefighting and hazardous material incident responses.  

ICS is a great tool, but it's also something that takes a lot of time to put into place, and it is not a good situation for OJT or on the job refreshers.  It has to be practiced often and in more than just one scenario.   Not only gunmen, but dirty bombs, WMD, biologicals, etc.  All those are threats.  

 

[staboner 4969]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

 

 

its a dumb idea and thats the point. because there are no good ideas, just destruction. guns, school shootings, healthcare, education, environment, all the same shit. 

[staboner 4969]

13 minutes ago, cabowabo said:

So many lawful concealed handgun carriers murdering innocent people.  How dare they be allowed to protect themselves or others. 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11023227/Four-killed-including-shooter-three-injured-Indiana-mall-shooting.html

and flailing victimhood ^ just waiting in the wings to have a panic

[henrygandorf 29189]

27 minutes ago, cabowabo said:

So many lawful concealed handgun carriers murdering innocent people.  How dare they be allowed to protect themselves or others. 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11023227/Four-killed-including-shooter-three-injured-Indiana-mall-shooting.html

allow me to introduce you to my good friend, miss direction. 

[Covri 6245]

The cops probably were waiting down the road to stop by an hour after it was over. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

27 minutes ago, Covri said:

The cops probably were waiting down the road to stop by an hour after it was over. 

Was in Uvalde today. The memorial they have set up in the square will reach all the way to the bottom of your soul. 

[ultimaton 2966]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Ooh! Ooh! I think I know!

To sell more guns!

Obviously the answer is to arm the students

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20393]

9 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Summary: 376 good guys with guns failed for more than one hour to stop one bad guy with a gun.

FIFY

[Brisketexan 105083]

FIFY

It’s a lot more than that. A psychopath who should never have been allowed to possess a high rate of fire weapon operating at max lethality, who everyone around him KNEW he shouldn’t get such a weapon….acquired 2 of them, about as easily as you can order a can of soup on Amazon. It would have been harder for him to buy a beer.

[Nivek 16923]

allow me to introduce you to my good friend, miss direction. 

I thought it was Miss Demeanor, cause it had to be a crime to be that dumb.
(Apologies to Todd Shaw a.k.a Too Short)

[henrygandorf 29189]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

I thought it was Miss Demeanor, cause it had to be a crime to be that dumb.
(Apologies to Todd Shaw a.k.a Too Short)

anything to keep people from the core problem, the fucking guns. 

gop using a guy shooting another guy who was shooting people as an example of the system working. 

let that settle in. 

[956 Worldwide 34705]

6 hours ago, cabowabo said:

So many lawful concealed handgun carriers murdering innocent people.  How dare they be allowed to protect themselves or others. 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11023227/Four-killed-including-shooter-three-injured-Indiana-mall-shooting.html

I don’t oppose CC, really, and was licensed at one point when I lived stateside.  I’d probably up the requirements a bit, but the concept is one that can be lived with.  Part of the whole “well-regulated” bit.  
 

You know, the clause that gun nuts object to, because that doesn’t square with buying a tacticool AR-15 to carry to the Kwik Stop and for Christmas photos with the family. 

[956 Worldwide 34705]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

It’s a lot more than that. A psychopath who should never have been allowed to possess a high rate of fire weapon operating at max lethality, who everyone around him KNEW he shouldn’t get such a weapon….acquired 2 of them, about as easily as you can order a can of soup on Amazon. It would have been harder for him to buy a beer.

That report makes me ragey.  I’m just going to throw out the LEO bit because there’s too much.

1. Our laws worked exactly as designed when it comes to availability of weapons.  Anyone who is 18 years old without certain crimes on his record should be able to go to a store and buy any long gun he wants.  All the shit about his family is just a distraction.  We are fucked if that’s what we are supposed to rely on— families making sure adults don’t do legal things.  

And what if they had reported him to the police? The police couldn’t have done shit. It is not illegal for angry young men to buy guns, in fact, Texas wants it to be very, very legal and encouraged. Were they supposed to have him committed? Do you think this state has enough beds to commit every angry young man who mentions guns at his fast food job? Fuck right off with all that. 
 

2. We knew that eventually, teachers would get blamed. And there it is. They propped open doors in a 1950s era school house in the summer. They had a bunch of different keys and left doors unlocked for substitute teachers. The HORROR! They ran the school like a fucking school and not a prison camp.  Fuck right off with all this security and active shooter protocol and how it wasn’t followed. I don’t fucking want schools to need active shooter protocols. Most schools in the world do not.  

[Captainant 27641]

9 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Was in Uvalde today. The memorial they have set up in the square will reach all the way to the bottom of your soul. 

But not to the bottom of your wallet to convince you that maybe lower taxes isn't worth all these kids killed by AR's on the reg?

[Fudge Nuggets 19189]

11 hours ago, Helobious said:

Apparently an armed civilian took him out. Put that one on the scoreboard for Good Guy with Guns. They were in a drought for a while, but lucky for them they will have plenty more opportunities to close the gap. Murica.

Bad guy took out three people before "good guy with a gun" dropped him.

Seems to me the bad guy still got scoreboard.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Bad guy took out three people before "good guy with a gun" dropped him.

Seems to me the bad guy still got scoreboard.

"See, the system works. Good guy with gun saved lives."

"But it still ended up with four people dead for the crime of going to a shopping mall?!"

"Now is not the time to debate policy! Four people just died!"

[TXSG8R 3362]

10 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

Incident Command Ops are built to transfer IC to more qualified leadership as it come on scene.  Arrendondo could have tried to do that, but there might have not been a clear chain of authority here.  I would have thought DPS or Texas Ranger at the very least.  I doubt seriously he was IC through the whole incident.  If he was, then that's a state failure to not have that handover training in place.    I know our local school goes through this training every year and firm plans are in place as to first response through to the final ops.      I'm not defending Arrendondo, but I can also see how this could break down easily with muddied communication and unsure of who has authority to issue commands.  

The problem with ICS is that it is cumbersome and intricate, and it's easy to forget where your spot is in the system as new personnel are added.  Most of mine is based on firefighting and hazardous material incident responses.  

ICS is a great tool, but it's also something that takes a lot of time to put into place, and it is not a good situation for OJT or on the job refreshers.  It has to be practiced often and in more than just one scenario.   Not only gunmen, but dirty bombs, WMD, biologicals, etc.  All those are threats.  

 

Fair, but I don’t know how, at a minimum, the school police IC wouldn’t have an immediate handoff to the local PD IC. Maybe I’m underestimating school police qualifications, but I would think that local PD would be a tad more qualified with incident response and response management in general. And in an active shooter or barricaded shooter situation, why wouldn’t swat take over immediately?

[Captainant 27641]

3 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

"See, the system works. Good guy with gun saved lives."

"But it still ended up with four people dead for the crime of going to a shopping mall?!"

"Now is not the time to debate policy! Four people just died!"

"Guys I don't want this discussion about an 18 year old buying and using a rifle with no obstacles to become political, just stick to the facts or you get timeout" - BlackLab in DT covering for gun nuts

[Goredho 17397]

I would love to know what vision conservatives have for their utopia uninfluenced by anything but conservative thinking.  Because from here, it looks like a really fucked up mashup of 1870 Deadwood, South Dakota and 1938 Berlin, Germany.

MAGA?

[TXSG8R 3362]

1 minute ago, Goredho said:

I would love to know what vision conservatives have for their utopia uninfluenced by anything but conservative thinking.  Because from here, it looks like a really fucked up mashup of 1870 Deadwood, South Dakota and 1938 Berlin, Germany.

MAGA?

We had gun restrictions in 1870 too. Their vision of an unrestricted gun ownership utopia isn’t grounded in anything from the past. 

[Underdog 28585]

Marjorie Tackleberry Greene probably creamed herself over the civilian taking out the shooter.  

[Nivek 16923]

Marjorie Tackleberry Greene probably creamed herself over the civilian taking out the shooter.  

Spoiler that shit

[Goredho 17397]

50 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

We had gun restrictions in 1870 too. Their vision of an unrestricted gun ownership utopia isn’t grounded in anything from the past. 

Fair enough, let’s say Deadwood, SD circa 1870 as portrayed in the TV show.

They actually probably want it to look like Yellowstone where they can drive around in pickups with ARs, warring with injuns and city slickers that are moving in and destroying their valley with radical, un-American concepts like middle-class jobs, decent public schools and adequate healthcare for those outside the landed gentry.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13578]

9 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

anything to keep people from the core problem, the fucking guns. 

gop using a guy shooting another guy who was shooting people as an example of the system working. 

let that settle in. 

Favoring the pound of cure option over the ounce of prevention, then pointing to the outlier examples when, after the damage is done, it actually works is the conservative definition of success.

[Covri 6245]

"A year before Uvalde shooting, gunman had threatened women, carried around a dead cat and been nicknamed “school shooter”

 

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/17/uvalde-shooter-warnings-background/

 

 

How could they ever have known this teenager could shoot up a school!!??!?

[RomaVicta 29902]

13 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Favoring the pound of cure option over the ounce of prevention, then pointing to the outlier examples when, after the damage is done, it actually works is the conservative definition of success.

Covid didn't kill everybody. Why wear masks or get shots?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

16 minutes ago, Covri said:

"A year before Uvalde shooting, gunman had threatened women, carried around a dead cat and been nicknamed “school shooter”

 

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/17/uvalde-shooter-warnings-background/

 

 

How could they ever have known this teenager could shoot up a school!!??!?

Legal gun buyer.

[Brisketexan 105083]

15 minutes ago, Covri said:

"A year before Uvalde shooting, gunman had threatened women, carried around a dead cat and been nicknamed “school shooter”

 

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/17/uvalde-shooter-warnings-background/

 

 

How could they ever have known this teenager could shoot up a school!!??!?

Again....we live in a country where there is no way (and the GQP, a wholly owned subsidiary of the NRA, won't allow there to be a way) to stop an obvious psychopath with the nickname "school shooter" from obtaining an AR-15 so that he can actually become a....school shooter.

This is normal, this is fine.

[RomaVicta 29902]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This is normal, this is fine.

My friend, it's the envy of the world. A burning city on a hill.

[hookemATL 11707]

I’d like to give the cops a little credit here. These bizarre street nicknames can be very convoluted and difficult to discern. 

“School Shooter”

aka “Shooty Shootyshooterson”

aka “Jizzy Joe”

 

who could have predicted this outcome?  No one. There were no clues or signs at all!  That is clear. 
 

now that I’ve eye rolled my myself into a stroke, I’m gonna go drink. fuck this timeline. 

[yoladu 4092]

15 hours ago, Helobious said:

Apparently an armed civilian took him out. Put that one on the scoreboard for Good Guy with Guns. They were in a drought for a while, but lucky for them they will have plenty more opportunities to close the gap. Murica.

 To consider this a "victory" is super depressing.

[C-Man 27197]

4 minutes ago, yoladu said:

 To consider this a "victory" is super depressing.

Exactly. A victory where the shooter STILL managed to kill three people and wound two others before he was taken out by a Good Samaritan with a gun.

[yoladu 4092]

Counterpoint: Shooter McGavin never actually shot anyone.

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

12 minutes ago, yoladu said:

Counterpoint: Shooter McGavin never actually shot anyone.

He eats pieces of shit for breakfast. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Quote

 

Matt Gaetz Opposes Active Shooter Alert System, Because It’ll “Bombard Your Phone 24 Hours A Day

 

Um.  yeah. 

[C-Man 27197]

8 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Um.  yeah. 

Gotta keep the lines clear for the underaged ladies

[horn4life 3759]

376 members of law enforcement responded to the Uvalde School shooting.

It wasn't numbers, it wasn't equipment, it wasn't leadership.  It was officers that knew what an assault rifle can do, and they did not want to be shot.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited July 18, 2022 by horn4life

[Brisketexan 105083]

Of course they didn't want to be shot with an AR.  They signed up to be cops, not 4th graders!

 

Also....

Edited July 18, 2022 by Brisketexan

[TexasEd 8066]

1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Um.  yeah. 

I thought about this and it would be a huge win to get the active shooter alert system passed.  Even if we only got alerts for active shooters in Texas they would raise awareness of the problem of access to guns beyond what we have now.

The real reason the R caucus does not want it passed is that it could lead to reasonable gun control laws being passed.

[Bullneck 19073]

21 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

Incident Command Ops are built to transfer IC to more qualified leadership as it come on scene.  Arrendondo could have tried to do that, but there might have not been a clear chain of authority here.  I would have thought DPS or Texas Ranger at the very least.  I doubt seriously he was IC through the whole incident.  If he was, then that's a state failure to not have that handover training in place.    I know our local school goes through this training every year and firm plans are in place as to first response through to the final ops.      I'm not defending Arrendondo, but I can also see how this could break down easily with muddied communication and unsure of who has authority to issue commands.  

The problem with ICS is that it is cumbersome and intricate, and it's easy to forget where your spot is in the system as new personnel are added.  Most of mine is based on firefighting and hazardous material incident responses.  

ICS is a great tool, but it's also something that takes a lot of time to put into place, and it is not a good situation for OJT or on the job refreshers.  It has to be practiced often and in more than just one scenario.   Not only gunmen, but dirty bombs, WMD, biologicals, etc.  All those are threats.  

 

Listened to a reporter talking to the FBI former mass shooting expert (sorry for paraphrasing).  She said that when Arredondo was "negotiating" with the shooter it was already too late.  Ever since Columbine the rule is once they start shooting (and he had) they don't stop, so you attack.  

[staboner 4969]

Quote

"A year before Uvalde shooting, gunman had threatened women, carried around a dead cat and been nicknamed “school shooter”

[4th&Five 41519]

 

[Brisketexan 105083]

I’ve purposefully avoided watching any of the video.
But KVUE just showed several excerpts, including officers running away from the gunfire. Including what looked to be 30-40 officers milling in the hallway, cringing when they heard the murderer shoot more, slaughtering more children on the other side of the wall. Not a single one ran to intervene, to break into that room and do whatever it took to stop children from being slaughtered.
I cried. I yelled at the TV “you’re running fucking backwards you fucking cowards!”
I have based my opinions up to now on what I have read. Now I have seen.
Every officer standing in that hallway should kill himself. Now. Tonight. Without further delay. They are not worthy to still walk this earth.

[TXSooner518 2438]

I’ve purposefully avoided watching any of the video.
But KVUE just showed several excerpts, including officers running away from the gunfire. Including what looked to be 30-40 officers milling in the hallway, cringing when they heard the murderer shoot more, slaughtering more children on the other side of the wall. Not a single one ran to intervene, to break into that room and do whatever it took to stop children from being slaughtered.
I cried. I yelled at the TV “you’re running fucking backwards you fucking cowards!”
I have based my opinions up to now on what I have read. Now I have seen.
Every officer standing in that hallway should kill himself. Now. Tonight. Without further delay. They are not worthy to still walk this earth.

You know how they have those rage rooms where you can go and beat the shit out of stuff with like bats and the like? The kids’ families should get to do that but with those cops and let’s throw in Cruz, Abbott, and the rest of the murder enablers.