Active shooter thread

[royiv 9131]

1 minute ago, hayden_horn said:

how do we know they are violent offenders if they haven't been tried?

Because they're scary non-white folks, duh.

[Poe It Up 126]

2 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

that link is the shittiest copy i may have ever read. my sons could write a better story, with some sort of statistic evidence, analysis and i dunno actual fucking evidence of the claim being made. 

 

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You consider that a credible link? There are no figures cited from a source. The first sentence refers to 113 murder suspects released on bond. Doesn’t say PR, and doesn’t even hint these particular suspects have committed gun crimes while on bond. There is a “according to crime stoppers” mention of killings committed by people out on bond but it doesn’t say over what time period, what their charges were, or if they were on PR bonds. Don’t be such a mark

I don’t know why I linked that article, actually. Very bizarre because I agree that article sucks. 
 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/crime-murder-bonds-defendants-courts-crisis-16302521.php

[Poe It Up 126]

6 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

how do we know they are violent offenders if they haven't been tried?

“Look, I’m sorry you’re son was killed, but we didn’t know the guy we bonded for an aggravated robbery and weapons charge was violent.” Durr 

[Sawbonz 27375]

6 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

 

I don’t know why I linked that article, actually. Very bizarre because I agree that article sucks. 
 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/crime-murder-bonds-defendants-courts-crisis-16302521.php

You linked that article because you went to google to try and quickly find something to support your irrational fears of brown people.

 

Your new link is behind a paywall. If you have rates of gun crimes committed by people charged w violent felonies out on PR bonds, which is what you were railing against upthread, post them. 
 

same as it ever was, just switch internet for radio

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Sawbonz

[hayden_horn 11360]

3 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

“Look, I’m sorry you’re son was killed, but we didn’t know the guy we bonded for an aggravated robbery and weapons charge was violent.” Durr 

stop for just a minute and think about your argument, which actually does have some merit if you can stop for a minute and think past "we need more prison cells." 

talk about "durr," which is a facile, borderline cancelable insult. 

but overlooking that, let's support your assertion. 

how should an arrest for a violent crime look from arrest to booking to charging to bond to trial?

should we lock up everyone the cops accuse of a crime indefinitely?

[Poe It Up 126]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Behind a paywall. If you have rates of gun crimes committed by people charged w violent felonies out on PR bonds, which is what you were railing against upthread, post them. 
 

same as it ever was, just switch internet for radio

 

Paywall my ass, I didn’t pay anything. You just didn’t like the info. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

12 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

 

I don’t know why I linked that article, actually. Very bizarre because I agree that article sucks. 
 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/crime-murder-bonds-defendants-courts-crisis-16302521.php

i can't get past the paywall. 

any way you can post the relevant text?

[Sawbonz 27375]

1 minute ago, Poe It Up said:

Paywall my ass, I didn’t pay anything. You just didn’t like the info. 

You’re making it really hard to stay civil

[Anastasis 23375]

Open in incognito guys.

 

Spoiler

As killings tied to defendants out on bond rise in Houston, crime data reveals a crisis in courts

Godofredo A. Vásquez, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

NICOLE HENSLEY, SAMANTHA KETTERER, STAFF WRITERS

July 9, 2021Updated: July 13, 2021 10:23 a.m.

Comments

This story is the first of an occasional series.

Gabino Duarte, a window installer in downtown Houston, had just cashed his paycheck.

A driver was following him on that late afternoon in May 2020. Two men jumped out of the car in a north Harris County parking lot and ambushed the 38-year-old, police said. Duarte fought back against the robbery attempt. He was shot, and died at the scene.

LOCAL NEWS YOU CAN’T FIND ANYWHERE ELSE: 6 Months for 99¢

ACT NOW

The accused triggerman, Kajuane Cartwright, was out on a $30,000 bond for an aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon charge at the time of Duarte’s killing.

A year later, family members marked the death. In their north Houston home, a portrait of Duarte hangs next to one of his older brother — who had been killed years earlier in Mexico.

Duarte’s sister, Leobarda Duarte, said she worried that some people have no fear of committing more crime when they are free on bond.

“Once they’ve done it once, they will continue to do it,” she said. “If they let me get out on bond, well, then what am I afraid of?”

In 2020, 18,796 defendants were charged with new felonies and misdemeanors while out on bond, a number that has tripled since 2015, county data shows. Approximately 89,600 individuals were charged with felonies and misdemeanors in Harris County that year.

And as in Duarte’s case, some of those new felonies are murder charges. Michael Mosley was out on three misdemeanor and three felony bonds in November 2020 when authorities say he orchestrated a convenience store robbery that led to a 61-year-old man’s death.

The Houston Chronicle reviewed murder cases in Harris County from 2013 to 2020 and identified 231 deaths linked to a defendant previously charged with crimes and out on bond. The review found that 79 individuals were free on multiple bonds, misdemeanor or felony, before the murder charge and of those, 38 defendants were out on multiple felony bonds. Cartwright was among them.

County data showed the number of individuals out on bond while being charged with new crimes, including murder charges, added up to more than 63,370 defendants since 2015.

The 221 murder cases (some with more than one victim) reviewed by the Chronicle represent less than 1 percent of those charged from 2015 to 2020 with a new crime while out on bond for any offense. The cases represent about 7 percent of the total homicides in Harris County during the Chronicle’s review period.

Information gathered from the Harris County District Attorney's Office, Harris County Pre-Trial Services and the Harris County District Clerk's Office

Ken Ellis

Violent crime in Houston, and elsewhere, started rising last year. It plays out in almost daily incidents that add up to a homicide rate that is one of the highest in the last three decades. Just this week, Xavier Davis, of Houston, was charged in a triple killing; he was out on bond on an unrelated family violence charge.

A crisis in the courts has come front and center.

“Like it or not, we are in the midst of a bond pandemic in the state of Texas,” said Andy Kahan, the victim advocate for Crime Stoppers of Houston. In April, he advocated for a failed bill to tweak the state’s bail practices. Another bill will be considered in the special session that started Thursday.

“And people are paying the price, the ramifications of what I am seeing for bond reform,” he told lawmakers.

Recent changes to the misdemeanor bail system allowed more people accused of minor offenses to be released without posting cash bail. But the settlement in federal court did not affect the felony bail system.

Glossary of terms

Bail: The money a defendant must pay in order to get out of jail, namely, to secure his or her agreement to abide by certain conditions and return to court.

Bond: The money posted on a defendant's behalf, usually by a bail bond company, to secure his or her release.

Eighth Amendment: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted," per the U.S. Constitution.

Bail reform: An overhaul to Harris County's bail system for misdemeanor defendants, enforcing less reliance on cash bail and allowing for greater pre-trial release for poor defendants. This resulted from a 2019 settlement in federal court. (The term should not refer to felony cases, as no felony bail reform has been implemented).

Cash bail: A monetary deposit to secure the temporary release of someone who is arrested and charged with a criminal offense.

Indigent: Someone who is classified as poor, or who does not have sufficient earnings or support to furnish a living.

Surety bond: A secured form of bail in which a person typically posts 10 percent of the bail amount and sometimes collateral (such as a piece of property) to a bondsman, who gives the entire amount to the court. If bail conditions are violated, the bond would be forfeited to the court and the collateral could be taken by the bondsman.

Personal recognizance bond: An unsecured form of bail which does not require an up-front deposit on the face value of the bail amount. Defendants appear in court on their own word, although they pay a smaller fee in order to be released. They are liable for the face value of the bail if they don't follow their bond conditions.

General order bond: A PR bond, implemented as a result of the misdemeanor bail reform settlement, which doesn't require a fee for release. Violating this bond results in owing a smaller bail amount.

Secured bond: A bond that involves money or property to secure a defendant's release (Ex: Cash bail, surety bonds).

Unsecured bond: A bond not involving money or property to secure a defendant's release (Ex: personal recognizance bonds, general order bonds).

Magistrate: A public officer invested with powers and functions which may be either judicial, legislative or executive. In Harris County, they are appointed lawyers called "criminal law hearing officers," who determine initial bail amounts in probable cause hearings.

Probable cause: Reasonable grounds to arrest and put the accused to trial.

Recidivism: Tendency to engage in repeated criminal behavior, usually referring to the condition of being convicted for a crime, serving the sentence, and then committing another crime that results in a new conviction and sentence.

Preventative detention: Holding an accused in custody to prevent further harm or risk that is imposed by the accused.

SEE MORE

Criminal justice experts say data indicates that it is the sluggishness of the justice system after Hurricane Harvey and the coronavirus pandemic that has left more of these defendants free. Police believe that has led to more crime.

Harris County has a backlog of more than 95,000 criminal cases, compared to 38,000 before Harvey. Hearings, trials and plea deals stalled following the heavy flooding damage to the courthouse, and then the pandemic largely shut down the court system. That caused the exhaustive case backlog that some authorities, defense lawyers and experts stress is crucial to analyzing the problem.

Criminal justice stakeholders point out that defendants have a constitutional right to non-excessive bail. They said the rising number of defendants free on bond is not connected to misdemeanor bail reform.

State District Judge Kelli Johnson, a Democrat, reiterated that defendants are entitled to such rights under the federal and state constitutions.

“It is easy to look at cases in isolation but remember, individuals are presumed innocent and each case is viewed individually by reviewing the totality of circumstances,” said Johnson, who presides over the 178th district criminal court and is the administrative judge for the felony courts. “The historic backlog of cases stemming from one catastrophe after another has delayed justice as individuals charged await their trial.”

Leobarda Duarte, left to right, Huber Rivera, and Anabella Duarte pose for a photograph in front of a memorial for their brother Gabino Duarte, inside their home on Monday, May 31, 2021, in Houston. The accused triggerman was out on bond for two felony charges and a misdemeanor at the time Duarte was fatally shot during an attempted robbery.

Godofredo A. Vásquez, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

The human cost

The Duarte siblings recently started nine days of praying the rosary to mark the year since burying Gabino Duarte in Mexico.

Anabella Duarte remembered that calls to him went unanswered that day.

Relatives said after Duarte was shot, the three suspects fled without the cash.

“He almost always got home around the same time,” Anabella said.

She assured her mother in Guerrero, Mexico, that Duarte would be home any moment. But then the family heard from deputies. .

Authorities believe the suspects — Cartwright, Eric Felder and Monay Johnson — targeted him for his paycheck and followed him as he searched for a new work tool. The two men confronted him at a shopping center on Aldine Mail Route and tried to rob him, court records show.

“They ripped (the heart) out of our chests in an instant,” the sister said. “And it was all for nothing — it was for trying to rob him of a few bucks.”

Authorities on May 28 captured Cartwright. The shooting happened while Cartwright was out on bond for two felonies and a misdemeanor.

In Cartwright’s initial adult case in January 2020, a magistrate denied him a personal recognizance bond and ordered him held in lieu of posting a $50,000 bond. Two months later, as the pandemic hit Harris County, a judge in the 262nd District Court lowered his bail to $30,000. Defendants typically pay 10 percent of the bond amount to be released.

Cartwright bonded out April 25 and about a week later prosecutors asked a judge to revoke his bond over a May 2 allegation of domestic violence. Court records do not indicate which judge lowered the bond or whether a judge agreed to the bond revocation, but Cartwright remained free and the killing of Duarte occurred less than two weeks later, on May 14.

For the rest of 2020, Cartwright was jailed without bail on the capital murder case until a public defender advocated for bail to be set.

A judge set it at $300,000 in January of this year. Cartwright remains in the county lockup.

Cartwright’s attorney stood by the decisions in his client’s earlier cases. “His lawyer had a legal obligation to ask for a bond,” said Anthony Osso. “I don’t think the judge was at fault because they’re legally obligated to set bond.”

Duarte’s family, however, expressed dismay that the alleged getaway driver in the case has been free on a $100,000 bond since last July.

“Even though she didn’t shoot, she was there,” Anabella Duarte said. “She could also find others and do the same harm.”

Crime Stoppers of Houston director of victim services and advocacy Andy Kahan poses for a portrait on Thursday, June 17, 2021, in Houston. Kahan has been a driving force in Harris County’s debate over bail practices and homicides that occur while defendants are out on bond.

Godofredo A. Vásquez, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

‘It just defies logic’

Kahan noticed an alarming rise in defendants out on multiple bonds early in the pandemic.

Kahan, who for decades was the victim’s advocate for the Houston mayor’s office, has for months raged against the increasing numbers of charges against people out on bond and rallied for tougher legislation. He has kept his own log of the number of defendants charged with murder and other crimes while out on bond — homing in on those accused of multiple felonies.

Though such instances represent a small minority of cases, the jump in the number of defendants on multiple felony bonds is difficult to explain.

“I’ve always been mystified how so many of these cases are on multiple felony bonds,” Kahan said. “It just defies logic.”

The GOP-backed bills that has Kahan championed as “bail reform” would ban cashless releases for some crimes.

Doug Griffith, president of the Houston Police Officers’ Union, supports legislation that “holds judges accountable for bail decisions.” He is most worried about defendants out on multiple felony bonds — which Kahan also fears.

“We have to come up with a way to keep them locked up,” Griffith said.

The debate over the increase in repeat felony offenders often frustrates advocates for defendants’ rights, who argue that bail is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution.

The state constitution rarely allows for people to be held without bail, except in capital murder cases. In some instances, being held without bail is contingent on having a speedy trial within 60 days — an almost impossible task with the county’s exhaustive backlog. Thus, many people are released on bond.

A handful of Harris County defendants bonded out of jail four, five or six times before being charged with murder.

— Jose Aranda Lona was out on six misdemeanor bonds for a string of car break-ins, police said. He allegedly attacked a neighbor in March 2019 over a money dispute, killing him.

— Michael Mosley was out on three misdemeanor and three felony bonds when authorities accused him of orchestrating a November 2020 convenience store robbery that left a 61-year-old man shot to death.

— Jesus Gallegos was out on four felony bonds and a misdemeanor when he was accused in November 2020 of beating his girlfriend to death, two months after he was charged with assaulting her.

Other defendants, Henry Banks and Justin Parker, each had four felony bonds.

The Harris County Criminal Justice Center, 1201 Franklin St., is shown Monday, June 28, 2021 in Houston. More than 95,000 felony and misdemeanor cases were pending in the courthouse near the end of June.

Melissa Phillip, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

The role of judges

As killings ramped up last spring in Houston — and elsewhere in the nation — voices in law enforcement blamed judges for releasing people who then were charged with murder.

“We are seeing a troubling surge in violent crime, such as murder and armed robbery, committed by defendants who some courts have released on bond for new and repetitive offenses,” said David Mitcham, first assistant and chief of courts for the Harris County District Attorney’s Office. “It is preposterous to assert that continuing to release violent and repetitive offenders on bond is somehow not fueling the crime rate.”

In May 2020 former Houston police chief Art Acevedo tweeted: “Too many Harris County criminal court judges and magistrates are coddling criminals and placing our communities and cops at risk.”

The Chronicle’s analysis found that most judges set bail on only one or two defendants who would go on to be charged with murder. Those who set bail in a greater number of cases were instead magistrates, who served most of the years in the Chronicle’s review, meaning they heard many more cases during probable cause hearings. Three magistrates each set bail for a dozen or more of the 221 defendants in the group analyzed by the Chronicle.

The data shows that, overall, bail amounts in the probable cause hearings rose alongside the yearly increase in murder charges while on bond. Many magistrates also denied bail in the most serious cases, only to have judges set bail weeks later as part of the defendants’ constitutional right.

The Harris County Criminal Justice Center, 1201 Franklin St., is shown Monday, June 28, 2021 in Houston. More than 95,000 felony and misdemeanor cases were pending in the courthouse near the end of June.

Melissa Phillip, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

In many cases, public documents detailing bail decisions lack a judge’s name or signature. Some decisions are made verbally in court. For about 40 of the 221 cases analyzed, the Chronicle was unable to determine which magistrate set bail because of illegible signatures and a lack of probable cause documents on the Harris County District Clerk’s website.

The Chronicle contacted all 23 felony judges, 16 misdemeanor judges and 10 magistrates through their staff attorneys. One misdemeanor judge and one felony judge responded.

Elected judges typically do not respond to inquiries about cases because of judicial rules that prevent them from doing so, but some will speak about policy. Magistrates follow similar rules.

David L. Singer, a Democratic judge presiding over Harris County Court at Law No. 14, said felony judges are wrongly taking the heat as a result of last year’s uptick in violent crime. And crime rates are not nearly as high as they were in the 1980s, he noted.

“It’s easy for law enforcement to point the finger at judges when someone is accused of a crime,” Singer said. “It’s an easy diversion from pointing the finger at themselves.”

Almost every player in the criminal justice system has a role in what has become a serious problem in the felony courts, said Mike Fields, a former Republican misdemeanor judge.

Both jurists agreed that it would be unjust to try preventing future crimes by detaining misdemeanor defendants before trial. One-third of the defendants in the Chronicle’s review were out on bond for misdemeanor charges alone at the time of the homicide.

Singer and Fields added that felony judges should have more leeway in detaining people without bond on violent crimes. But Fields cautioned that lawmakers should slow down ahead of enacting legislation to curb violent reoffenses, especially since Harris County is coming off the heels of an anomalous year from the pandemic.

On HoustonChronicle.com: ‘Waiting and waiting:’ COVID only made Harris County’s massive backlog of murder cases worse

Among the topics that lawmakers will address in the special session are personal recognizance bonds to people charged with violent felonies. The cash-free bonds, also known as PR or unsecured bonds, do not require a deposit on the face value of bail, and defendants appear in court on their own word.

The Chronicle’s analysis indicates that less than a fifth of defendants in the 221 cases were out only on personal recognizance bonds or general order bonds, meaning they had paid little or no money to secure their release. Some of those charges included felonies. The majority of people accused of killing someone had been released on surety bonds — meaning they had to pay bail in order to get out.

Only two defendants were granted solely a personal recognizance bond while charged with a violent crime.

For many defense attorneys, the finding that surety bonds are still most common for people charged with felonies backs a common refrain: People who have money to make bail will do so.

And meanwhile, those attorneys said, poor people with low-level felony charges are still languishing in jail.

“If you have the money, you can get out,” said Alex Bunin, Harris County’s chief public defender. “That seems to be more of a lesson about why cash bail is not a panacea for anything.”

Paying to get out of jail is no guarantee that the person will not reoffend, as evidenced by the data that indicates most charged with murder while out on bond had paid to get out.

Bunin said the blame game amounts to an unfair expectation of judges.

“Judges are not experts on any of this, and they’re not experts on risk,” Bunin said. “Nobody is. You cannot predict the future.”

2

1of2

Action Bail Bonds is photographed at night Wednesday, June 30, 2021, in downtown Houston. Defendants usually pay bail bonds companies 10 percent of their surety bond amount to get out of jail.

Yi-Chin Lee, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

A pandemic problem?

Some experts say the spike in crimes committed by those on bond is connected to Houston’s streak of bad luck with acts of nature: Hurricane Harvey and the coronavirus pandemic.

The average number of cases in which defendants on bond were charged with murder rose starting in 2018. Prior to the 2017 storm, such cases averaged about 16 per year. That number rose to 28 in 2018 after the storm’s flooding inundated and shuttered the Harris County Criminal Courthouse. Those cases climbed again to 38 in 2019.

2020 ended with 74 such cases as the global pandemic swept through the Houston area and paused most in-person court proceedings.

Howard Henderson, professor and founding director of the Center for Justice Research at Texas Southern University, put it plainly.

“Houston never really recovered from Harvey,” he said. “And its criminal justice (system) never really bounced back.”

Trials came to a halt for two months after Harvey and later restarted at a trickle. The same happened to other court proceedings, such as arraignments, pleas and bond hearings. Judges doubled up rooms in neighboring courthouses as flood damage rendered most of the criminal building uninhabitable. The logistical nightmare continued for more than a year. Then the pandemic happened.

The courts closed last April to non-essential proceedings. Prosecutors and some judges worked from home. Those circumstances led to a growing backlog of unresolved cases. Pending felony cases sit at more than 54,000, and pending misdemeanor cases at 41,000, according to the Harris County Justice Administration Department.

Houston police Chief Troy Finner recently cited the backlog — which he attributed to Harvey and the pandemic — as a contributing factor to the increasing frustration among his ranks. More than 1,500 of the department’s murder cases, a third of which involve capital murder charges, have yet to go to trial, he said.

On HoustonChronicle.com: Repeated bail for Houston man accused of murder, 6 felony convictions enrages law enforcement

That number is a 15 percent increase from last September.

“The court systems are not moving fast enough,” Finner said, following a recent law enforcement summit. “If we’re arresting people but they’re not going to prison when they need to — that’s a problem.”

He urged the courts to expedite low-level, non-violent cases while focusing their attention on the recidivism of violent offenders.

Defendants in cases from 2020 that the Chronicle reviewed were out on bond an average of 181 days before the murder charge. In 2015, before Harvey, the average was 94 days.

Bunin, the public defender, offered an explanation for the growing number of reoffenders on bond — a change in perception.

Prior to Harvey, and even the misdemeanor bail reform settlement, defendants would plead guilty more quickly because they were being held in jail, he explained. They would be sentenced to prison and eventually released. Some of them would later commit new crimes, such as murder.

In 2020, Bunin theorized, people are still on bond at the time of a killing because of how much longer cases are taking to resolve.

The real challenge, Henderson said, will be how an array of public agencies, from the Harris County District Attorney’s Office to the Houston Police Department, decide to tackle the problem. The county’s proximity to natural disasters will only make matters worse.

“They have to figure out how to manage in these new realities,” Henderson continued.

Jim Bethke, interim director of Harris County Pre-Trial Services, which monitors many people on bond, warned against assigning an increase in violence to any one factor. Many people, he said, were unable to access social services during the pandemic and that may be at one least contributor.

“We are taking this opportunity to expand the services offered and focus closely on providing supervision and support for individuals who are more likely to use violence,” Bethke said. “We recognize that there is a need for community safety while balancing the rights of people not adjudicated.”

Godofredo A. Vásquez contributed to this report.

Reporters: Nicole Hensley and Samantha Ketterer

Editor: Lillian Thomas

Photography: Godofredo A. Vásquez, Melissa Phillip and Yi-Chin Lee

Graphics: Ken Ellis

Photo editing: Jasmine Goldband

Page design: Jordan Ray-Hart

Audience: Jennifer Chang and Dana Burke

Newsletters: Tommy Hamzik

Social: John-Henry Perera

Sign up for the Morning Report newsletter

Get top headlines from the Houston Chronicle delivered to your inbox.

Email

SIGN UP

By signing up, you agree to our Terms of use and acknowledge that your information will be used as described in our Privacy Policy.

Written By

Nicole Hensley

Reach Nicole on

Nicole Hensley is a staff writer for the Houston Chronicle. She joined the Chronicle in 2018 from the New York Daily News and after writing for The Spokesman-Review in Spokane, Washington. A native of Seattle, Nicole is a graduate of Washington State University.

Written By

Samantha Ketterer

Reach Samantha on

Samantha Ketterer is a Houston Chronicle reporter covering higher education.

She joined the staff as a breaking news reporter in 2018. She later covered criminal justice and the Harris County courthouse.

Samantha, who is from Houston's suburbs, graduated from the University of Texas at Austin and is a proud alumna of The Daily Texan. She is a former reporting fellow for the Dallas Morning News' state bureau and a former city hall reporter for The Galveston County Daily News.

 

[Poe It Up 126]

4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

stop for just a minute and think about your argument, which actually does have some merit if you can stop for a minute and think past "we need more prison cells." 

talk about "durr," which is a facile, borderline cancelable insult. 

but overlooking that, let's support your assertion. 

how should an arrest for a violent crime look from arrest to booking to charging to bond to trial?

should we lock up everyone the cops accuse of a crime indefinitely?

No. You stop lowering the cost of bonds in violent offenses and you should absolutely never let them bond out of multiple felonies, which I can’t believe even happens, but here we are somehow. Harris county makes it very easy for these criminals to hurt more people. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Open in incognito guys.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

As killings tied to defendants out on bond rise in Houston, crime data reveals a crisis in courts

Godofredo A. Vásquez, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

NICOLE HENSLEY, SAMANTHA KETTERER, STAFF WRITERS

July 9, 2021Updated: July 13, 2021 10:23 a.m.

Comments

This story is the first of an occasional series.

Gabino Duarte, a window installer in downtown Houston, had just cashed his paycheck.

A driver was following him on that late afternoon in May 2020. Two men jumped out of the car in a north Harris County parking lot and ambushed the 38-year-old, police said. Duarte fought back against the robbery attempt. He was shot, and died at the scene.

LOCAL NEWS YOU CAN’T FIND ANYWHERE ELSE: 6 Months for 99¢

ACT NOW

The accused triggerman, Kajuane Cartwright, was out on a $30,000 bond for an aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon charge at the time of Duarte’s killing.

A year later, family members marked the death. In their north Houston home, a portrait of Duarte hangs next to one of his older brother — who had been killed years earlier in Mexico.

Duarte’s sister, Leobarda Duarte, said she worried that some people have no fear of committing more crime when they are free on bond.

“Once they’ve done it once, they will continue to do it,” she said. “If they let me get out on bond, well, then what am I afraid of?”

In 2020, 18,796 defendants were charged with new felonies and misdemeanors while out on bond, a number that has tripled since 2015, county data shows. Approximately 89,600 individuals were charged with felonies and misdemeanors in Harris County that year.

And as in Duarte’s case, some of those new felonies are murder charges. Michael Mosley was out on three misdemeanor and three felony bonds in November 2020 when authorities say he orchestrated a convenience store robbery that led to a 61-year-old man’s death.

The Houston Chronicle reviewed murder cases in Harris County from 2013 to 2020 and identified 231 deaths linked to a defendant previously charged with crimes and out on bond. The review found that 79 individuals were free on multiple bonds, misdemeanor or felony, before the murder charge and of those, 38 defendants were out on multiple felony bonds. Cartwright was among them.

County data showed the number of individuals out on bond while being charged with new crimes, including murder charges, added up to more than 63,370 defendants since 2015.

The 221 murder cases (some with more than one victim) reviewed by the Chronicle represent less than 1 percent of those charged from 2015 to 2020 with a new crime while out on bond for any offense. The cases represent about 7 percent of the total homicides in Harris County during the Chronicle’s review period.

Information gathered from the Harris County District Attorney's Office, Harris County Pre-Trial Services and the Harris County District Clerk's Office

Ken Ellis

Violent crime in Houston, and elsewhere, started rising last year. It plays out in almost daily incidents that add up to a homicide rate that is one of the highest in the last three decades. Just this week, Xavier Davis, of Houston, was charged in a triple killing; he was out on bond on an unrelated family violence charge.

A crisis in the courts has come front and center.

“Like it or not, we are in the midst of a bond pandemic in the state of Texas,” said Andy Kahan, the victim advocate for Crime Stoppers of Houston. In April, he advocated for a failed bill to tweak the state’s bail practices. Another bill will be considered in the special session that started Thursday.

“And people are paying the price, the ramifications of what I am seeing for bond reform,” he told lawmakers.

Recent changes to the misdemeanor bail system allowed more people accused of minor offenses to be released without posting cash bail. But the settlement in federal court did not affect the felony bail system.

Glossary of terms

Bail: The money a defendant must pay in order to get out of jail, namely, to secure his or her agreement to abide by certain conditions and return to court.

Bond: The money posted on a defendant's behalf, usually by a bail bond company, to secure his or her release.

Eighth Amendment: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted," per the U.S. Constitution.

Bail reform: An overhaul to Harris County's bail system for misdemeanor defendants, enforcing less reliance on cash bail and allowing for greater pre-trial release for poor defendants. This resulted from a 2019 settlement in federal court. (The term should not refer to felony cases, as no felony bail reform has been implemented).

Cash bail: A monetary deposit to secure the temporary release of someone who is arrested and charged with a criminal offense.

Indigent: Someone who is classified as poor, or who does not have sufficient earnings or support to furnish a living.

Surety bond: A secured form of bail in which a person typically posts 10 percent of the bail amount and sometimes collateral (such as a piece of property) to a bondsman, who gives the entire amount to the court. If bail conditions are violated, the bond would be forfeited to the court and the collateral could be taken by the bondsman.

Personal recognizance bond: An unsecured form of bail which does not require an up-front deposit on the face value of the bail amount. Defendants appear in court on their own word, although they pay a smaller fee in order to be released. They are liable for the face value of the bail if they don't follow their bond conditions.

General order bond: A PR bond, implemented as a result of the misdemeanor bail reform settlement, which doesn't require a fee for release. Violating this bond results in owing a smaller bail amount.

Secured bond: A bond that involves money or property to secure a defendant's release (Ex: Cash bail, surety bonds).

Unsecured bond: A bond not involving money or property to secure a defendant's release (Ex: personal recognizance bonds, general order bonds).

Magistrate: A public officer invested with powers and functions which may be either judicial, legislative or executive. In Harris County, they are appointed lawyers called "criminal law hearing officers," who determine initial bail amounts in probable cause hearings.

Probable cause: Reasonable grounds to arrest and put the accused to trial.

Recidivism: Tendency to engage in repeated criminal behavior, usually referring to the condition of being convicted for a crime, serving the sentence, and then committing another crime that results in a new conviction and sentence.

Preventative detention: Holding an accused in custody to prevent further harm or risk that is imposed by the accused.

SEE MORE

Criminal justice experts say data indicates that it is the sluggishness of the justice system after Hurricane Harvey and the coronavirus pandemic that has left more of these defendants free. Police believe that has led to more crime.

Harris County has a backlog of more than 95,000 criminal cases, compared to 38,000 before Harvey. Hearings, trials and plea deals stalled following the heavy flooding damage to the courthouse, and then the pandemic largely shut down the court system. That caused the exhaustive case backlog that some authorities, defense lawyers and experts stress is crucial to analyzing the problem.

Criminal justice stakeholders point out that defendants have a constitutional right to non-excessive bail. They said the rising number of defendants free on bond is not connected to misdemeanor bail reform.

State District Judge Kelli Johnson, a Democrat, reiterated that defendants are entitled to such rights under the federal and state constitutions.

“It is easy to look at cases in isolation but remember, individuals are presumed innocent and each case is viewed individually by reviewing the totality of circumstances,” said Johnson, who presides over the 178th district criminal court and is the administrative judge for the felony courts. “The historic backlog of cases stemming from one catastrophe after another has delayed justice as individuals charged await their trial.”

Leobarda Duarte, left to right, Huber Rivera, and Anabella Duarte pose for a photograph in front of a memorial for their brother Gabino Duarte, inside their home on Monday, May 31, 2021, in Houston. The accused triggerman was out on bond for two felony charges and a misdemeanor at the time Duarte was fatally shot during an attempted robbery.

Godofredo A. Vásquez, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

The human cost

The Duarte siblings recently started nine days of praying the rosary to mark the year since burying Gabino Duarte in Mexico.

Anabella Duarte remembered that calls to him went unanswered that day.

Relatives said after Duarte was shot, the three suspects fled without the cash.

“He almost always got home around the same time,” Anabella said.

She assured her mother in Guerrero, Mexico, that Duarte would be home any moment. But then the family heard from deputies. .

Authorities believe the suspects — Cartwright, Eric Felder and Monay Johnson — targeted him for his paycheck and followed him as he searched for a new work tool. The two men confronted him at a shopping center on Aldine Mail Route and tried to rob him, court records show.

“They ripped (the heart) out of our chests in an instant,” the sister said. “And it was all for nothing — it was for trying to rob him of a few bucks.”

Authorities on May 28 captured Cartwright. The shooting happened while Cartwright was out on bond for two felonies and a misdemeanor.

In Cartwright’s initial adult case in January 2020, a magistrate denied him a personal recognizance bond and ordered him held in lieu of posting a $50,000 bond. Two months later, as the pandemic hit Harris County, a judge in the 262nd District Court lowered his bail to $30,000. Defendants typically pay 10 percent of the bond amount to be released.

Cartwright bonded out April 25 and about a week later prosecutors asked a judge to revoke his bond over a May 2 allegation of domestic violence. Court records do not indicate which judge lowered the bond or whether a judge agreed to the bond revocation, but Cartwright remained free and the killing of Duarte occurred less than two weeks later, on May 14.

For the rest of 2020, Cartwright was jailed without bail on the capital murder case until a public defender advocated for bail to be set.

A judge set it at $300,000 in January of this year. Cartwright remains in the county lockup.

Cartwright’s attorney stood by the decisions in his client’s earlier cases. “His lawyer had a legal obligation to ask for a bond,” said Anthony Osso. “I don’t think the judge was at fault because they’re legally obligated to set bond.”

Duarte’s family, however, expressed dismay that the alleged getaway driver in the case has been free on a $100,000 bond since last July.

“Even though she didn’t shoot, she was there,” Anabella Duarte said. “She could also find others and do the same harm.”

Crime Stoppers of Houston director of victim services and advocacy Andy Kahan poses for a portrait on Thursday, June 17, 2021, in Houston. Kahan has been a driving force in Harris County’s debate over bail practices and homicides that occur while defendants are out on bond.

Godofredo A. Vásquez, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

‘It just defies logic’

Kahan noticed an alarming rise in defendants out on multiple bonds early in the pandemic.

Kahan, who for decades was the victim’s advocate for the Houston mayor’s office, has for months raged against the increasing numbers of charges against people out on bond and rallied for tougher legislation. He has kept his own log of the number of defendants charged with murder and other crimes while out on bond — homing in on those accused of multiple felonies.

Though such instances represent a small minority of cases, the jump in the number of defendants on multiple felony bonds is difficult to explain.

“I’ve always been mystified how so many of these cases are on multiple felony bonds,” Kahan said. “It just defies logic.”

The GOP-backed bills that has Kahan championed as “bail reform” would ban cashless releases for some crimes.

Doug Griffith, president of the Houston Police Officers’ Union, supports legislation that “holds judges accountable for bail decisions.” He is most worried about defendants out on multiple felony bonds — which Kahan also fears.

“We have to come up with a way to keep them locked up,” Griffith said.

The debate over the increase in repeat felony offenders often frustrates advocates for defendants’ rights, who argue that bail is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution.

The state constitution rarely allows for people to be held without bail, except in capital murder cases. In some instances, being held without bail is contingent on having a speedy trial within 60 days — an almost impossible task with the county’s exhaustive backlog. Thus, many people are released on bond.

A handful of Harris County defendants bonded out of jail four, five or six times before being charged with murder.

— Jose Aranda Lona was out on six misdemeanor bonds for a string of car break-ins, police said. He allegedly attacked a neighbor in March 2019 over a money dispute, killing him.

— Michael Mosley was out on three misdemeanor and three felony bonds when authorities accused him of orchestrating a November 2020 convenience store robbery that left a 61-year-old man shot to death.

— Jesus Gallegos was out on four felony bonds and a misdemeanor when he was accused in November 2020 of beating his girlfriend to death, two months after he was charged with assaulting her.

Other defendants, Henry Banks and Justin Parker, each had four felony bonds.

The Harris County Criminal Justice Center, 1201 Franklin St., is shown Monday, June 28, 2021 in Houston. More than 95,000 felony and misdemeanor cases were pending in the courthouse near the end of June.

Melissa Phillip, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

The role of judges

As killings ramped up last spring in Houston — and elsewhere in the nation — voices in law enforcement blamed judges for releasing people who then were charged with murder.

“We are seeing a troubling surge in violent crime, such as murder and armed robbery, committed by defendants who some courts have released on bond for new and repetitive offenses,” said David Mitcham, first assistant and chief of courts for the Harris County District Attorney’s Office. “It is preposterous to assert that continuing to release violent and repetitive offenders on bond is somehow not fueling the crime rate.”

In May 2020 former Houston police chief Art Acevedo tweeted: “Too many Harris County criminal court judges and magistrates are coddling criminals and placing our communities and cops at risk.”

The Chronicle’s analysis found that most judges set bail on only one or two defendants who would go on to be charged with murder. Those who set bail in a greater number of cases were instead magistrates, who served most of the years in the Chronicle’s review, meaning they heard many more cases during probable cause hearings. Three magistrates each set bail for a dozen or more of the 221 defendants in the group analyzed by the Chronicle.

The data shows that, overall, bail amounts in the probable cause hearings rose alongside the yearly increase in murder charges while on bond. Many magistrates also denied bail in the most serious cases, only to have judges set bail weeks later as part of the defendants’ constitutional right.

The Harris County Criminal Justice Center, 1201 Franklin St., is shown Monday, June 28, 2021 in Houston. More than 95,000 felony and misdemeanor cases were pending in the courthouse near the end of June.

Melissa Phillip, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

In many cases, public documents detailing bail decisions lack a judge’s name or signature. Some decisions are made verbally in court. For about 40 of the 221 cases analyzed, the Chronicle was unable to determine which magistrate set bail because of illegible signatures and a lack of probable cause documents on the Harris County District Clerk’s website.

The Chronicle contacted all 23 felony judges, 16 misdemeanor judges and 10 magistrates through their staff attorneys. One misdemeanor judge and one felony judge responded.

Elected judges typically do not respond to inquiries about cases because of judicial rules that prevent them from doing so, but some will speak about policy. Magistrates follow similar rules.

David L. Singer, a Democratic judge presiding over Harris County Court at Law No. 14, said felony judges are wrongly taking the heat as a result of last year’s uptick in violent crime. And crime rates are not nearly as high as they were in the 1980s, he noted.

“It’s easy for law enforcement to point the finger at judges when someone is accused of a crime,” Singer said. “It’s an easy diversion from pointing the finger at themselves.”

Almost every player in the criminal justice system has a role in what has become a serious problem in the felony courts, said Mike Fields, a former Republican misdemeanor judge.

Both jurists agreed that it would be unjust to try preventing future crimes by detaining misdemeanor defendants before trial. One-third of the defendants in the Chronicle’s review were out on bond for misdemeanor charges alone at the time of the homicide.

Singer and Fields added that felony judges should have more leeway in detaining people without bond on violent crimes. But Fields cautioned that lawmakers should slow down ahead of enacting legislation to curb violent reoffenses, especially since Harris County is coming off the heels of an anomalous year from the pandemic.

On HoustonChronicle.com: ‘Waiting and waiting:’ COVID only made Harris County’s massive backlog of murder cases worse

Among the topics that lawmakers will address in the special session are personal recognizance bonds to people charged with violent felonies. The cash-free bonds, also known as PR or unsecured bonds, do not require a deposit on the face value of bail, and defendants appear in court on their own word.

The Chronicle’s analysis indicates that less than a fifth of defendants in the 221 cases were out only on personal recognizance bonds or general order bonds, meaning they had paid little or no money to secure their release. Some of those charges included felonies. The majority of people accused of killing someone had been released on surety bonds — meaning they had to pay bail in order to get out.

Only two defendants were granted solely a personal recognizance bond while charged with a violent crime.

For many defense attorneys, the finding that surety bonds are still most common for people charged with felonies backs a common refrain: People who have money to make bail will do so.

And meanwhile, those attorneys said, poor people with low-level felony charges are still languishing in jail.

“If you have the money, you can get out,” said Alex Bunin, Harris County’s chief public defender. “That seems to be more of a lesson about why cash bail is not a panacea for anything.”

Paying to get out of jail is no guarantee that the person will not reoffend, as evidenced by the data that indicates most charged with murder while out on bond had paid to get out.

Bunin said the blame game amounts to an unfair expectation of judges.

“Judges are not experts on any of this, and they’re not experts on risk,” Bunin said. “Nobody is. You cannot predict the future.”

2

1of2

Action Bail Bonds is photographed at night Wednesday, June 30, 2021, in downtown Houston. Defendants usually pay bail bonds companies 10 percent of their surety bond amount to get out of jail.

Yi-Chin Lee, Houston Chronicle / Staff photographer

A pandemic problem?

Some experts say the spike in crimes committed by those on bond is connected to Houston’s streak of bad luck with acts of nature: Hurricane Harvey and the coronavirus pandemic.

The average number of cases in which defendants on bond were charged with murder rose starting in 2018. Prior to the 2017 storm, such cases averaged about 16 per year. That number rose to 28 in 2018 after the storm’s flooding inundated and shuttered the Harris County Criminal Courthouse. Those cases climbed again to 38 in 2019.

2020 ended with 74 such cases as the global pandemic swept through the Houston area and paused most in-person court proceedings.

Howard Henderson, professor and founding director of the Center for Justice Research at Texas Southern University, put it plainly.

“Houston never really recovered from Harvey,” he said. “And its criminal justice (system) never really bounced back.”

Trials came to a halt for two months after Harvey and later restarted at a trickle. The same happened to other court proceedings, such as arraignments, pleas and bond hearings. Judges doubled up rooms in neighboring courthouses as flood damage rendered most of the criminal building uninhabitable. The logistical nightmare continued for more than a year. Then the pandemic happened.

The courts closed last April to non-essential proceedings. Prosecutors and some judges worked from home. Those circumstances led to a growing backlog of unresolved cases. Pending felony cases sit at more than 54,000, and pending misdemeanor cases at 41,000, according to the Harris County Justice Administration Department.

Houston police Chief Troy Finner recently cited the backlog — which he attributed to Harvey and the pandemic — as a contributing factor to the increasing frustration among his ranks. More than 1,500 of the department’s murder cases, a third of which involve capital murder charges, have yet to go to trial, he said.

On HoustonChronicle.com: Repeated bail for Houston man accused of murder, 6 felony convictions enrages law enforcement

That number is a 15 percent increase from last September.

“The court systems are not moving fast enough,” Finner said, following a recent law enforcement summit. “If we’re arresting people but they’re not going to prison when they need to — that’s a problem.”

He urged the courts to expedite low-level, non-violent cases while focusing their attention on the recidivism of violent offenders.

Defendants in cases from 2020 that the Chronicle reviewed were out on bond an average of 181 days before the murder charge. In 2015, before Harvey, the average was 94 days.

Bunin, the public defender, offered an explanation for the growing number of reoffenders on bond — a change in perception.

Prior to Harvey, and even the misdemeanor bail reform settlement, defendants would plead guilty more quickly because they were being held in jail, he explained. They would be sentenced to prison and eventually released. Some of them would later commit new crimes, such as murder.

In 2020, Bunin theorized, people are still on bond at the time of a killing because of how much longer cases are taking to resolve.

The real challenge, Henderson said, will be how an array of public agencies, from the Harris County District Attorney’s Office to the Houston Police Department, decide to tackle the problem. The county’s proximity to natural disasters will only make matters worse.

“They have to figure out how to manage in these new realities,” Henderson continued.

Jim Bethke, interim director of Harris County Pre-Trial Services, which monitors many people on bond, warned against assigning an increase in violence to any one factor. Many people, he said, were unable to access social services during the pandemic and that may be at one least contributor.

“We are taking this opportunity to expand the services offered and focus closely on providing supervision and support for individuals who are more likely to use violence,” Bethke said. “We recognize that there is a need for community safety while balancing the rights of people not adjudicated.”

Godofredo A. Vásquez contributed to this report.

Reporters: Nicole Hensley and Samantha Ketterer

Editor: Lillian Thomas

Photography: Godofredo A. Vásquez, Melissa Phillip and Yi-Chin Lee

Graphics: Ken Ellis

Photo editing: Jasmine Goldband

Page design: Jordan Ray-Hart

Audience: Jennifer Chang and Dana Burke

Newsletters: Tommy Hamzik

Social: John-Henry Perera

Sign up for the Morning Report newsletter

Get top headlines from the Houston Chronicle delivered to your inbox.

Email

SIGN UP

By signing up, you agree to our Terms of use and acknowledge that your information will be used as described in our Privacy Policy.

Written By

Nicole Hensley

Reach Nicole on

Nicole Hensley is a staff writer for the Houston Chronicle. She joined the Chronicle in 2018 from the New York Daily News and after writing for The Spokesman-Review in Spokane, Washington. A native of Seattle, Nicole is a graduate of Washington State University.

Written By

Samantha Ketterer

Reach Samantha on

Samantha Ketterer is a Houston Chronicle reporter covering higher education.

She joined the staff as a breaking news reporter in 2018. She later covered criminal justice and the Harris County courthouse.

Samantha, who is from Houston's suburbs, graduated from the University of Texas at Austin and is a proud alumna of The Daily Texan. She is a former reporting fellow for the Dallas Morning News' state bureau and a former city hall reporter for The Galveston County Daily News.

 

tried, and still got the paywall.

anyways, this information is interesting. i'd also be interested in how this compares to other metro areas in the us that are around houston's size.

Quote

County data showed the number of individuals out on bond while being charged with new crimes, including murder charges, added up to more than 63,370 defendants since 2015.

The 221 murder cases (some with more than one victim) reviewed by the Chronicle represent less than 1 percent of those charged from 2015 to 2020 with a new crime while out on bond for any offense. The cases represent about 7 percent of the total homicides in Harris County during the Chronicle’s review period.

Information gathered from the Harris County District Attorney's Office, Harris County Pre-Trial Services and the Harris County District Clerk's Office

Ken Ellis

Violent crime in Houston, and elsewhere, started rising last year. It plays out in almost daily incidents that add up to a homicide rate that is one of the highest in the last three decades. Just this week, Xavier Davis, of Houston, was charged in a triple killing; he was out on bond on an unrelated family violence charge.

so the 221 murders represent alleged murders while out on bond for any offense, not merely violent offenses. 

further, i'd like to see some kind of analysis applied here if we are coming to the conclusion that houston is releasing too many people on bond.

what are the crimes represented in these murders? is it low level possession or aggravated assault? what should we do with the accused until we can bring them to trial?

i agree 100% the system is broken, and a focus needs to be put on violent offenders. i'm sure that we can find common ground there. 

who do we let out?

[Neonmoon 38127]

I absolutely think the bond system is broken and favors the rich, instead of the non-violent. 

But so is our system of access to violent weapons is also broken

[Poe It Up 126]

11 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You’re making it really hard to stay civil

I’ll lower the temperature. I don’t pay for the Houston Chronicle, so I am confused as well. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19118]

3 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

I’ve actually never watched that show, so who knows. 

That’s because you have nine lives in Harris county before they do anything. There’s stories of criminals getting arrested in Montgomery County crying like a toddler because they actually prosecute. 

TIL that Poe gets his "facts" from roadside billboards.

[Willfully Horn 7913]

Trials and the convictions they bring cost money. Rs sold their souls for mammon; they can’t let go of the low tax ball of tar now.

Between Harvey and the pandemic, Harris is disastrously behind in trying these felony cases. If only there was a multi-billion emergency fund available in our state.

[Poe It Up 126]

2 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

TIL that Poe gets his "facts" from roadside billboards.

It’s pretty widely known that you don’t want to get arrested in Montgomery County. Hell, they’ll post your picture on Facebook and humiliate you. 

[Sawbonz 27375]

Thanks @Anastasis

so after reading that, in seven years of cases there is one murder defendant who committed the crime with only misdemeanor charges pending.  I see no mention of him being out on a PR bond. So does everyone agree it is not reasonable for a Harris County resident to be fearful of being murdered by someone out on a PR bond or even on multiple misdemeanors?

[royiv 9131]

14 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

It’s pretty widely known that you don’t want to get arrested in Montgomery County. Hell, they’ll post your picture on Facebook and humiliate you. 

Do you think career criminals are afraid of having their picture posted on Facebook? Why didn't anyone else think of that??? Guys, I think Poe has solved the problem!

[Poe It Up 126]

Steps to CR debate: 

1. Deny the issue exists and request links. 
2. Read such links and discredit source. 
3. Concede issue exists and then downplay. 

Repeat. 

[royiv 9131]

3 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Steps to CR debate: 

1. Deny the issue exists and request links. 
2. Read such links and discredit source. 
3. Concede issue exists and then downplay. 

Repeat. 

You're right, it makes zero sense to actually honestly define and quantify a problem before discussing potential solutions. We should just make sure we stir everyone into a frenzy with hyperbole and take the most extremist solution possible.

[Sawbonz 27375]

3 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

Harris county keeps letting all these pieces of shit out so they can spread their love all over my county. The unfortunate truth is that we need far more incarceration. 

 

2 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

Oh, they’ll prosecute them. Of course, it takes 5 years and multiple PR bonds so they can terrorize other communities until then. 

 

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Link to stats 

 

14 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Thanks @Anastasis

so after reading that, in seven years of cases there is one murder defendant who committed the crime with only misdemeanor charges pending.  I see no mention of him being out on a PR bond. So does everyone agree it is not reasonable for a Harris County resident to be fearful of being murdered by someone out on a PR bond or even on multiple misdemeanors?

 

5 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Steps to CR debate: 

1. Deny the issue exists and request links. 
2. Read such links and discredit source. 
3. Concede issue exists and then downplay. 

Repeat. 

 

[YGIFS 19449]

My daughter's elementary school just went into active lockdown due to a threat made about mass shooting.  And in this day and age, you can't ignore threats like that.  Wife is picking up our munchkin from preschool and saw a dozen police cars.  School said nobody in/out and they'll have to adjust pickup because they can't send them all out in a single-file row in case somebody is waiting to pick them off from outside.  Because you know...Abbott and Patrick's brave leadership on doors in schools.  

I hope y'all enjoy hunting season because remember sensibly keeping assault rifles out of our schools totally means they're gonna take away your hunting rifles.  FUCKING MORONS! 

There's at least a half-dozen posters on this site with kids at the same school, probably more.  I gotta admit, before Sante Fe and Uvalde...I'd probably write this off as a lunatic looking for attention from LEOs.  But gotta take it much more serious these days.  They're not telling the kids what's up right now, which is good.  Hopefully it's a nothing.  But there was a threat made and they took it dead serious.  

The district won't comment on it.  But I'll get it out of the leadership eventually since I work with them who made the threat.  No harm shall come to him and he shall not commit any heinous act upon children.  But I bet I can get him to swallow the business end of his weapon, by his own hand, by the end of the semester.  And I will laugh and laugh about it until I am a very old man.  And then I'll bankrupt his parents and siblings and desecrate his grave.  We own one weapon in this household.  Tomorrow morning, I am going to temporarily surrender it to local law enforcement.  /rant

Edited September 13, 2022 by YGIFS

[DDD Dad 14167]

3 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

Harris county keeps letting all these pieces of shit out so they can spread their love all over my county. The unfortunate truth is that we need far more incarceration. 

Or, here's a thought, maybe we stop prosecuting drug offenders and use the freed up jail space to get violent offenders off the streets.

[Nivek 16808]

3 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Or, here's a thought, maybe we stop prosecuting drug offenders and use the freed up jail space to get violent offenders off the streets.

How about we lock up people on their 18th birthday until they can prove they are not criminals. 

[Poe It Up 126]

7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 

 

 

 

 

We were discussing felonies, not misdemeanors. 

 

[Sawbonz 27375]

Just now, Poe It Up said:

We were discussing felonies, not misdemeanors. 

 

So you are still saying people are out on PR for felony charges?

[Poe It Up 126]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

So you are still saying people are out on PR for felony charges?

Either that or their bonds had been significantly lowered. Harris County has lost their minds.

[Sawbonz 27375]

2 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Either that or their bonds had been significantly lowered. Harris County has lost their minds.

That’s not what you asserted earlier. I mean I literally quoted you. Just admit you have an irrational fear of being murdered by someone out on bond. It’s ok man I’m afraid of heights

[YGIFS 19449]

Letting the kids out early under supervised exits conducted by APD, WLHPH, RPD, and State Troopers.  Great, that's not gonna fuck with my daughter's anxiety for the next few months.  But just wanna check in and see how you MAGA snowflakes are holding up.  Area has been swept, but I'm assuming they wanna get the kids the fuck outta there so they can conduct a more thorough search with an empty building.  I get it.  

I'm gonna convince him, anonymously, to kill himself.  And I'm going to dedicate it to Greg Abbott, the man whose bathroom I just took a shit in last weekend.  

[Poe It Up 126]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

That’s not what you asserted earlier. I mean I literally quoted you. Just admit you have an irrational fear of being murdered by someone out on bond. It’s ok man I’m afraid of heights

Making it easier for criminals to get out of jail worries me, of course. It doesn’t strike me as irrational during a crime wave. 

[Sawbonz 27375]

Just now, Poe It Up said:

Making it easier for criminals to get out of jail worries me, of course. It doesn’t strike me as irrational during a crime wave. 

*alleged criminals. You are so worried about your precious 2nd amendment rights and you don’t give 2 shits about the remainder of the BOR for everyone else

[YGIFS 19449]

Just now, Poe It Up said:

Making it easier for criminals to get out of jail worries me, of course. It doesn’t strike me as irrational during a crime wave. 

So you're worried about database irregularities?  Dangerous people's information falling through the system's cracks so that they can go back out there and commit more violent crimes?  Understandable.  You just described a huge portion of the kinda people that still legally obtain firearms at legit points of sale thanks to loopholes NRA & MAGA nation enacted.  Congrats on connecting the dots all-star.  Maybe you can finally move to a neighborhood where you're not in constant fear of a late night break in by a violent criminal.  

[hayden_horn 11360]

3 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Making it easier for criminals to get out of jail worries me, of course. It doesn’t strike me as irrational during a crime wave. 

who said that people out on bond are criminals?

[hayden_horn 11360]

33 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Steps to CR debate: 

1. Deny the issue exists and request links. 
2. Read such links and discredit source. 
3. Concede issue exists and then downplay. 

Repeat. 

i'm just trying to understand where your constitution ends and mine begins.

[Poe It Up 126]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

*alleged criminals. You are so worried about your precious 2nd amendment rights and you don’t give 2 shits about the remainder of the BOR for everyone else

Broker of record? 

2 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

who said that people out on bond are criminals?

The victims.

[Poe It Up 126]

2 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i'm just trying to understand where your constitution ends and mine begins.

Yeah, I actually think you are here. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

Just now, Poe It Up said:

Broker of record? 

The victims.

ok.

ok.

seriously.

victims decide if an accused criminal out on bond is guilty?

the fuck, dude. stop and think.

[Poe It Up 126]

1 minute ago, hayden_horn said:

ok.

ok.

seriously.

victims decide if an accused criminal out on bond is guilty?

the fuck, dude. stop and think.

No, but it might be smart to make it harder for a guy that is in jail for armed robbery to make bail. But they’re making it easier. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

1 minute ago, Poe It Up said:

No, but it might be smart to make it harder for a guy that is in jail for armed robbery to make bail. But they’re making it easier. 

how do we do that?

[Poe It Up 126]

Just now, hayden_horn said:

how do we do that?

I’ve already stated that you stop lowering bail and people on multiple charges shouldn’t be bonded. There’s no magic bullet, but you simply can’t keep lowering the bar. 

[YGIFS 19449]

1 minute ago, hayden_horn said:

how do we do that?

By advocating for his 2A rights, DUH!

Just now, Poe It Up said:

I’ve already stated that you stop lowering bail and people on multiple charges shouldn’t be bonded. There’s no magic bullet, but you simply can’t keep lowering the bar. 

Holy shit, I thought I was good with guns.  I mean, puns.  You've got to be a computer simulation, right?  

[Poe It Up 126]

3 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

By advocating for his 2A rights, DUH!

Holy shit, I thought I was good with guns.  I mean, puns.  You've got to be a computer simulation, right?  

Why are you not at your child’s school right now? Seriously dude, log off and go help her.

[Thatguy 8478]

4 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

Harris county keeps letting all these pieces of shit out so they can spread their love all over my county. The unfortunate truth is that we need far more incarceration. 

 

4 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

I’ve actually never watched that show, so who knows. 

That’s because you have nine lives in Harris county before they do anything. There’s stories of criminals getting arrested in Montgomery County crying like a toddler because they actually prosecute. 

 

3 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

I have HBO, I’m not a poor. It’s a matter of opportunity cost, my time is very valuable. I’m sure I’ll get around to it eventually. 

 

3 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

Oh, they’ll prosecute them. Of course, it takes 5 years and multiple PR bonds so they can terrorize other communities until then. 

 

2 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

I think I enjoy having more space with my current property. Still, I spend a lot of time there playing golf, so it could happen. 

 

2 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

Of course, but I also think people that refuse to use the quote feature should be incarcerated. 

 

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

Wanting criminals in jail is extremist, gotta love this country. 

Goddamn you’re lazy, it takes two seconds to google and there’s hundreds of stores about it. Here’s one, but I could post hundreds. 

https://www.fox26houston.com/whats-your-point/suspects-out-on-bond-have-killed-more-than-150-people-in-harris-county-whats-your-point

 

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

No, it was making the point that the wait time is years and they let these pieces of shit back into the community to find new victims. Of course we need to keep the violent offenders locked up, what a dumb thing to say. 

 

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

 

I don’t know why I linked that article, actually. Very bizarre because I agree that article sucks. 
 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/crime-murder-bonds-defendants-courts-crisis-16302521.php

 

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

“Look, I’m sorry you’re son was killed, but we didn’t know the guy we bonded for an aggravated robbery and weapons charge was violent.” Durr 

 

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

Paywall my ass, I didn’t pay anything. You just didn’t like the info. 

 

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

No. You stop lowering the cost of bonds in violent offenses and you should absolutely never let them bond out of multiple felonies, which I can’t believe even happens, but here we are somehow. Harris county makes it very easy for these criminals to hurt more people. 

 

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

I’ll lower the temperature. I don’t pay for the Houston Chronicle, so I am confused as well. 

 

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

It’s pretty widely known that you don’t want to get arrested in Montgomery County. Hell, they’ll post your picture on Facebook and humiliate you. 

 

51 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Steps to CR debate: 

1. Deny the issue exists and request links. 
2. Read such links and discredit source. 
3. Concede issue exists and then downplay. 

Repeat. 

 

34 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

We were discussing felonies, not misdemeanors. 

 

 

30 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Either that or their bonds had been significantly lowered. Harris County has lost their minds.

 

22 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Making it easier for criminals to get out of jail worries me, of course. It doesn’t strike me as irrational during a crime wave. 

 

15 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Broker of record? 

The victims.

 

14 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Yeah, I actually think you are here. 

 

  What, in the Lord's name, does any of that have to do with active shooters? Last I checked Austin in 1966, Killeen in 91, Ft Worth in 99, Ft Hood in 09, Dallas in 16, Sutherland Springs in 17, Santa Fe in 18, El Paso in 19, and Uvalde this year weren't part of Harris County. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Thatguy

[wildcat09 29187]

24 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i'm just trying to understand where your constitution ends and mine begins.

Let me answer this for you: he gets Constitutional protections, you don't.

[DDD Dad 14167]

41 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Either that or their bonds had been significantly lowered. Harris County has lost their minds.

Poe comes in with an uninformed hot take, gets pantsed, and then deflects.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[YGIFS 19449]

9 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Why are you not at your child’s school right now? Seriously dude, log off and go help her.

Because we already went by and law enforcement told us to get the fuck away or we'd be arrested.  Thanks for the hot tip jackass.  You think that wasn't my first instinct?  Since I saw all those parents get arrested at Uvalde, I took their advice seriously and hung back.  Thankfully, there is no active shooter...just lockdown procedure but they looked plenty concerned.  "Go help her"  Really man?  Fuck you.  Go shout some racial slurs at dark people being released from prison right now.  

I can't get to her right now because of people like you.  When your Abbott and Trump die, and I celebrate in the streets...you come find me sweetheart. 

[TexEx15 17444]

Hoping for a false alarm.

Edited September 13, 2022 by TexEx15

[Thatguy 8478]

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Because we already went by and law enforcement told us to get the fuck away or we'd be arrested.  Thanks for the hot tip jackass.  You think that wasn't my first instinct?  Since I saw all those parents get arrested at Uvalde, I took their advice seriously and hung back.  Thankfully, there is no active shooter...just lockdown procedure but they looked plenty concerned.  "Go help her"  Really man?  Fuck you.  Go shout some racial slurs at dark people being released from prison right now.  

I can't get to her right now because of people like you.  When your Abbott and Trump die, and I celebrate in the streets...you come find me sweetheart. 

  My kid had a lockdown today too. We are close to Harris County so I bet someone who bonded out was down there threatening the school. We should move out to one of the safe small towns like Uvalde or Santa Fe

[Poe It Up 126]

6 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Poe comes in with an uninformed hot take, gets pantsed, and then deflects.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

I got him to acknowledge it’s real, that’s a victory in this place. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

5 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

Hoping for a false alarm.

and i wonder why my child has extreme anxiety about going to school. 

1 minute ago, Poe It Up said:

I got him to acknowledge it’s real, that’s a victory in this place. 

you got who to acknowledge what is real?

and who won what, exactly?