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Active shooter thread

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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C-Man

C-Man 27,055

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This 6-year-old shooting is so completely fucked up, I'm having a really hard time wrapping my mind around it. Caught a followup on the NBC Nightly News. Teacher is recovering from a gunshot wound in her hand and her chest. The kid is receiving medical care. Teacher apparently helped facilitate getting the kids out of her classroom but no word on whether the 6-year-old had to be disarmed or was like "Oh, fuck -- what did I just do?" and froze.

 

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4th&Five
4th&Five

Fuck off. You vote for this shit. Explain that to your kids. 

Pancho
Pancho

3rd leg of my move from Houston to the Bay Area, and I made it to LA.   I’m just now catching up on the news in my hotel.  I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again—I don’t have kids, but this e

royiv
royiv

WTF world are we living in when people are having a discussion about survival rates of certain rounds? People are being terrorized by gun violence and we're discussing which bullet has worse/better ch

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104,624

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3 minutes ago, C-Man said:

This 6-year-old shooting is so completely fucked up, I'm having a really hard time wrapping my mind around it. Caught a followup on the NBC Nightly News. Teacher is recovering from a gunshot wound in her hand and her chest. The kid is receiving medical care. Teacher apparently helped facilitate getting the kids out of her classroom but no word on whether the 6-year-old had to be disarmed or was like "Oh, fuck -- what did I just do?" and froze.

 

Yeah....I don't know what to make of the whole story, either.

But it's helping solidify my legislation proposal: With respect to any crime committed by a minor with a firearm that belongs to an adult, the adult has the EXACT SAME criminal culpability for the act as if the adult had committed the act himself.  Let your kid find your gun and shoot his teacher with it?  Cool.  You are charged with the intentional shooting of the teacher as if you, the adult, had pulled the trigger.

We've seen a metric shitton of these cases where a minor who wouldn't otherwise have access to a gun got access through his parents (either negligently or willfully, like that one up in - Michigan, I think?, where the parents gave him the gun?) goes out and commits assault/murder with the gun.  Or, even more common, finds the gun and accidentally shoots someone else in the household.  Make a law that creates strict criminal liability with respect to an adult-owned firearm falling into the hands of a minor member of the household/family.  Start locking up parents, and folks will get real fucking serious about locking gunsafes and such (which, by the way, I would make an affirmative defense to charge, to encourage parents to do the right thing - keep your guns locked up, and you won't face criminal risk, either practically (the kid can't get the gun) or legally (if the kid turns out to be a master safecracker, you still took the right measure, and should avoid liability).

But the "MUH GUNZ!" crowd won't even go for that.  Because it's all about the fetish and absolutism.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29,793

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I guess when the shooter is a six-year-old thinking he's solving the problem the way problems are solved, we can conclude that it's our mythology more than even laws that drive this gun crazy country. 

I don't know how you undo the lies we've been telling ourselves for generations about who we are and how we do things.

Our stories almost all end with a good guy killing a bad guy. Subtle. We may shed the MAGA threat, but this gun/killing thing is not a good route for us. At least we resist doing anything about the climate or racism. All signs point to things being okay!

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Bullneck

Bullneck 18,987

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On 1/7/2023 at 12:59 AM, Satchel said:

If only a teacher with a gun would have been present to blow that 6 year old away with an AR15. That’s how we’re gonna keep our schools free from gun violence.

I think the Republican plan is to arm teachers, isn't it?  Imagine having to shoot one of your students.  

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4,968

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On 12/20/2022 at 2:35 PM, YGIFS said:

Serious question...you can register firearms to a Trust?  What kinda trust out of curiosity?  Somebody listed as a custodian?  And what's the purpose to something like that?  Estate planning or?  

NFA weapons like suppressors. IIRC, your spouse cannot even legally possess a suppressor without you present (or possibly even know the combo to your safe, depending on how ambitious the ATF gets) if it is legally registered to you. Having it in a trust allows multiple people to be trustees and alleviates some of those issues. Also, estate planning is greatly simplified for NFA weapons versus registering it as an individual.

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 10,977

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Nut in Atlanta arrested in grocery store with 6 loaded weapons (four handguns, a shotgun, and an AR), but is released because he didn't break any laws. Oh, he was also wearing body armor.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/02/us/atlanta-gun-laws.html

 

Spoiler

ATLANTA — Two days after a gunman killed 10 people at a Colorado grocery store, leaving many Americans on high alert, Rico Marley was arrested as he emerged from the bathroom at a Publix supermarket in Atlanta. He was wearing body armor and carrying six loaded weapons — four handguns in his jacket pockets, and in a guitar bag, a semiautomatic rifle and a 12-gauge shotgun.

Moments earlier, an Instacart delivery driver had alerted a store employee after seeing Mr. Marley in the bathroom, along with the AR-15-style rifle, which was propped against a wall. A grand jury indictment later described what had come next: “panic, terror and the evacuation of the Publix.”

Mr. Marley, then 22, was arrested without incident that day in March 2021. His lawyer, Charles Brant, noted that he had not made any threats or fired any shots, and had legally purchased his guns. Mr. Marley did not violate Georgia law, Mr. Brant said; he was “just being a person, doing what he had the right to do.”

 

Indeed, Mr. Marley’s arrest kicked off a long and as yet unresolved legal odyssey in which the criminal justice system waffled over what it could charge him with and whether to set him free. Clearly, visiting the grocery store with a trove of guns had frightened people. But was it illegal?

The episode, and others like it, speaks to a uniquely American quandary: In states with permissive gun laws, the police and prosecutors have limited tools at their disposal when a heavily armed individual’s mere presence in a public space sows fear or even panic.

 

The question of how to handle such situations has been raised most often in recent years in the context of political protests, where the open display of weapons has led to concerns about intimidation, the squelching of free speech or worse. But it may become a more frequent subject of debate in the wake of a landmark Supreme Court decision in June, which expanded Americans’ right to arm themselves in public while limiting states’ ability to set their own regulations.

The ruling also affirmed the principle of allowing states and local governments to ban guns in “sensitive places”; as examples, it cited legislative assemblies, polling places and courthouses. But the high court left much open for interpretation. “A wave of litigation is going to confront the courts with questions about what, for example, makes a restriction on guns in schools and government buildings different than in museums or on public transit,” Jacob D. Charles, a professor and gun law expert at Pepperdine Caruso School of Law, wrote in a recent blog post.

 
 
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Guns and rifles on a table

Events like the one involving Mr. Marley, while difficult to quantify, are extreme examples of a problem already bedeviling the police and prosecutors, sometimes from the moment an armed person is spotted in public. All but three states allow for the open carry of handguns, long guns or both, and in many there is little the police can do.

 

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Native Horn

Native Horn 3,492

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7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wait . . . when was this?  The Colorado shooting was in March 2021, right?

ATLANTA — Two days after a gunman killed 10 people at a Colorado grocery store,

Yes, JJ, it was in March, 2021.  But I understand your confusion on keeping the dozens upon dozens of mass shootings straight.  Hell, I already forgot about that one.

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 10,977

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54 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wait . . . when was this?  The Colorado shooting was in March 2021, right?

ATLANTA — Two days after a gunman killed 10 people at a Colorado grocery store,

 

The article is a few weeks (mas or menos) old.

 

I think the guy ended up being charged with something like "unsafe handling of a firearm" because he left one of the long guns leaning against the wall of the bathroom while he loaded the others in a stall.

 

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Satchel

Satchel 6,908

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Unbelievable:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/16/us/albuquerque-democrat-officials-shootings-arrest.html

The authorities in Albuquerque said on Monday that a former Republican candidate who lost his bid for a State House seat in November had been arrested in connection with a series of recent shootings at the homes and offices of a half-dozen Democratic elected officials.

Chief Harold Medina of the Albuquerque Police Department said at a news conference that the former candidate, Solomon Peña, was “the mastermind” behind a conspiracy in which four other men were paid to shoot at the homes of two county commissioners and two state legislators.

Mr. Peña lost the election in a landslide to an incumbent Democrat, Miguel Garcia, but refused to concede after making unfounded claims of election fraud.

Chief Medina said a gun that was found during the arrest of another suspect in the shootings last week was later linked to Mr. Peña.

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Make em eat Taco Bell

Make em eat Taco Bell 1,549

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On 1/16/2023 at 5:52 AM, HenryJames said:

Hopefully he was just defending himself against being taught critical race theory.

should be a dreamscape movie by M Night Shamalongdong . First there are 12-15 toddlers with guns in a complex and they fight each other. They wise up and join forces to kill the adults. Cops are helpless, some corrupt ones even arm the kids.  Profit. 

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Blotto

Blotto 23,434

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The family of a 6-year-old boy who shot and wounded his teacher in Virginia said Thursday that the gun he used had been “secured" and that one of his parents usually accompanied him in class but did not the week the shooting occurred.

Also on Thursday, the hospital that had been treating the teacher said that she was released earlier in the week and is continuing outpatient care.

The statement from the boy's family was released by an attorney and did not elaborate further on where the 9mm handgun was kept. The family also was not identified.

“Our family has always been committed to responsible gun ownership and keeping firearms out of the reach of children,” the statement said. “The firearm our son accessed was secured.”

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2023-01-19/lawyer-gun-used-by-child-who-shot-teacher-was-secured

Do these stupid motherfuckers not understand the meaning of the word secured? 

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tchookem

tchookem 3,900

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The family of a 6-year-old boy who shot and wounded his teacher in Virginia said Thursday that the gun he used had been “secured" and that one of his parents usually accompanied him in class but did not the week the shooting occurred.
Also on Thursday, the hospital that had been treating the teacher said that she was released earlier in the week and is continuing outpatient care.
The statement from the boy's family was released by an attorney and did not elaborate further on where the 9mm handgun was kept. The family also was not identified.
“Our family has always been committed to responsible gun ownership and keeping firearms out of the reach of children,” the statement said. “The firearm our son accessed was secured.”
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2023-01-19/lawyer-gun-used-by-child-who-shot-teacher-was-secured
Do these stupid motherfuckers not understand the meaning of the word secured? 


If those parents aren't charged. Every teacher in that district needs to walk out. There is zero way those parents are not negligent in that child possessing that weapon. Not charging them would be openly admitting (yet again) that the local authorities value gun rights above teachers' (everyone's) lives.


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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 7,913

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Thanks to @Horn Under a Bad Sign, I know where to find Michael Ventura’s “Letters at 3AM” archive. It has been a quarter of a century since Ventura’s thoughts were an active influence on my worldview. I had missed this column, dated Feb 16, 2018.

 

“Nineteen years ago – May 28, 1999 – the Chronicle published a "Letters at 3am" column concerning the Columbine High School massacre in Littleton, Colorado. Two boys murdered 13 and wounded 20 before killing themselves. I looked up that column again after 17 were murdered at a Florida high school, the umpteenth school shooting this year so far.

My column of 1999 follows; (spoilered;) I see no reason to change a word. Because we’ve learned nothing since and we’ve done nothing.”

 

Spoiler

And Thy Right Hand Shall Teach Thee


Originally published May 28, 1999

Littleton won't go away, not because politicians and commentators are still yapping about it but because no one can forget it; and because Littleton has taught some deeply disturbed young people (all affluent, all white) how to make an impact on an America that wants nothing from them but their capacity to consume. In Michigan, California, and Texas, Littleton copycat plots have been foiled; in a suburban Atlanta high school that U.S. News & World Report rated as one of the top 13 in the state, a regular church-goer and Boy Scout wounded six and then broke down in tears, saying, "Oh my God, I'm so scared, I'm so scared." So are we all. Many are saying that guns aren't the problem; they blame MTV, Hollywood, and the lack of prayer and Bible study in our schools. Well, maybe some Bible study is in order. Turn to the Book of Deuteronomy, 21:18-21:

cols.ventura.gif
illustration by Jason Stout

"If any of you has a disobedient and rebellious son, who does not respond to the instructions of his father or mother, you are first to discipline him. If he still does not heed you, you are to bring him to the elders at the gate of the city. You are to say to the elders of the city, 'This son of ours is disobedient and rebellious. He won't obey us. He is a glutton and a drunk.' The men of the city are then to stone him to death. In this way you will rid yourselves of this evil, and everybody else will hear about it and be afraid."

That passage is thought to be between 2,500 and 3,000 years old. So "disobedient and rebellious" sons were a serious problem centuries before Hollywood and hip-hop – even in homogenous cities (none much bigger than Littleton) where every activity was structured around religion and where children were constantly with their families. The problem was consistent and important enough not only to be written into sacred law but to merit public execution. Which tells us something else: that no one knew what to do. A sentence of death, requested and demanded by the parents themselves, is a clear and strident signal that no one in that society could come up with a constructive solution for extreme disobedience and rebellion in the young. The problem was both too strong to overcome and too threatening to tolerate. In a time when children were crucial to the economic survival of the family, both the parents and the community were reduced to the epitome of defeat: killing their kids. And the stated purpose of this public execution was to scare other kids into behaving. No society sets such an example unless they feel it's needed, i.e., unless the children are restless ... very restless.

Which is to say: Twentieth Century America didn't invent teen angst or parental powerlessness. Nor did we invent substance abuse: Gluttony and drunkenness were the charges against Deuteronomy's children. In fact, the Bible, the book that many conservatives want taught in school as the word of God, is rife with children running amok and killing each other, sons warring against their fathers, brothers raping sisters, boys squandering inheritances, siblings throwing each other down wells, and scantily clad girls dancing wildly and then calling for the severed heads of prophets (at Mommy's instigation – talk about family dysfunction!). The Bible also has its share of violently irrational parents: Noah's son entered his father's tent and saw him naked; the young man had no way of knowing his father would be naked, but Noah had him executed nevertheless. (Fathers often don't like to be seen for who they really are.) Children are fair game in the Bible, especially if they're your enemy's. As Psalm 137 has it, "O daughter of Babylon ... happy shall be he who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!" (I continue to be amazed that Christians, Moslems, and Jews still regard this praise of atrocity as "holy writ.") The ultimate biblical act of faith is supposed to be Abraham's willingness to murder his child Isaac – although today "God told me to do it" is not accepted as a legal defense, even by most fundamentalists. My somewhat obvious point is that nowhere in the Bible does it say these people watched too much television.

During the siege of Jerusalem (66-70 A.D.), Jews who sneaked from the city to forage for food were captured and crucified by the Romans (i.e., Italians) at the rate of 500 a day. The Roman soldiers quickly became bored with crucifying them in the usual way, so they nailed their victims in all sorts of pretzel-like postures and then watched the crows peck out their living eyes. These soldiers hadn't OD'd on violent video games.

The Catholic torturers of the Inquisition ... the Europeans and Americans who, for hundreds of years, burned and hanged uppity women whom they called "witches" ... the upright Christians who let hundreds of thousands of Africans die in the stinking holds of slave ships, and defended slavery as an institution until their Confederate armies were beaten beyond hope ... the Anglo cavalrymen who massacred Native American women and children and often cut the genitals from the dead women and wore them as skull-caps as they rode off in victory ... the Nazis who ran the death-camps ... the young airmen who incinerated the civilian populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ... the rural boys who slaughtered nearly half the population of Cambodia ... the rural boys who, this year, cut off the hands and arms of hundreds of enemy tribespeople in Africa ... none of these people watched too many explosion-punctuated Hollywood movies, sang hip-hop, glommed shoot-'em-ups on TV, or played Mortal Kombat and Doom.

I am the last one to let the blood-drenched shallowness and venality of contemporary media off the hook; "Hollywood," to use that word as a catch-all for the whole sick stew, seduces the young into pissing away their precious time on insular fantasies instead of learning how to face life with courage, behave with integrity, and contribute what only their unique souls can give to us, to each other, and to the history we are making. Hollywood has become our abdication: the abdication of the elders, the abdication of our sacred duty that we share our souls with the young. For it as the Greek poet George Seferis has written: "the soul/ If it is to know itself/ It is into a soul/ That it must look."

That is the fundamental demand of parenting, of education, and of culture; as a nation and as individuals most of us have failed it utterly. The young don't accept our excuses, and I thank God that they don't. I believe their only chance is in their rejection of our evasions.

Nevertheless, to blame Hollywood, with all its ramifications, for the violence in our young and throughout our society, is to ignore the record of human history. Which is the record of the human psyche. Which is who and what we are. We have not needed the media to instruct us in atrocity. We seem to have been born with that gruesome capacity. As it says in Psalm 45: "And thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things."

Not your movies, not your Doom, not your hip-hop, not your porn, but your right hand.

We are violent creatures subject to spasms of intense irrationality – and we always have been. How do we solve the problem? It's the wrong question. The human psyche is not a problem to be solved but a paradox to be lived. The paradox is how much love and gentleness and compassion we violent creatures are capable of; and how much violence we loving creatures are capable of. For we are both, at the same time, every day and every hour of the day. The human task is to choose between those elements in oneself every day. The failure both of Hollywood and of the moralistic stance that "this is right and this is wrong," is that they make the choice look easy, and it is never is.

The New York Times' statistics quoted here several weeks ago are worth repeating: "In 1996, handguns were used to murder 2 people in New Zealand, 15 in Japan, 30 in Great Britain, 106 in Canada, 213 in Germany, and 9,390 in the United States." As Hollywood director Rob Reiner said to Times columnist Maureen Dowd: "Every country gets our movies, but they don't kill anybody afterward." This fact cannot be overemphasized. The difference between those other countries and the United States is not the movies, nor is it consumerism – they watch what we watch, they are as venal as we, and their histories prove they are equally prone to atrocity; the difference is that, to quote the commonly accepted stats, our population of 260 million owns roughly 300 million guns. We are an armed camp. It is difficult to obtain a handgun in any other civilized nation on Earth, but our children seem able to procure them for the asking.

When an American right hand seeks to teach a terrible thing, it can reach for a gun.

That's the difference, and that's the only difference.

It is cowardly not to admit it. More cowardly still not to do something about it.

 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28,712

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Of course they’re breaking into Face the State, when I’m trying to get an update on the Larry Householder bribery trial, with a press conference on the shooting. So far I’m not hearing new information that’s urgent for me to know. The male suspect is Asian. Did we know that? That might be new. Nothing more than that so far. 

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Red Five

Red Five 40,665

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2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Of course they’re breaking into Face the State, when I’m trying to get an update on the Larry Householder bribery trial, with a press conference on the shooting. So far I’m not hearing new information that’s urgent for me to know. The male suspect is Asian. Did we know that? That might be new. Nothing more than that so far. 

We got some shade thrown our way though. "Our officers didn't wait to go in." 

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19,449

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2 hours ago, Red Five said:

We got some shade thrown our way though. "Our officers didn't wait to go in." 

But could it have been worse is my question?

yeah, that comment was definitely thrown our way.  And deservedly so.  An Asian mass shooter?  We haven't had one those in a long while.  Year of the Rabbit gonna be lit as fuck.  /noracist

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