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Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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4th&Five
4th&Five

Fuck off. You vote for this shit. Explain that to your kids. 

Pancho
Pancho

3rd leg of my move from Houston to the Bay Area, and I made it to LA.   I’m just now catching up on the news in my hotel.  I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again—I don’t have kids, but this e

royiv
royiv

WTF world are we living in when people are having a discussion about survival rates of certain rounds? People are being terrorized by gun violence and we're discussing which bullet has worse/better ch

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EMAWesome

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3 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Shit, I missed where Dan Patrick dusted off that old GOP standard,  the lack of prayer in schools:

 

 

I'm not saying he hit the bullseye here but there is something in the generic theme of this that is valid.  It was much, much, much, easier to get guns when I was growing up and where I grew up practically every boy over the age of 12 or 13 had at least a .410 or a .20 gauge shotgun and these things never happened.  We all had it pounded into our heads by our parents that except for the rare incident where your or somebody else's life is in immediate danger it was never, ever, ever, an option to kill another human.   I can't see how anyone can debate that message does not seem to resonate with youth in the same manner today.  I don't know why it is the case but I don't see how anyone born before 1980 or so can deny that observation.

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JimmyJames

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Actually when you advocate for racist and hate filled language and talk about invasions by non whites, and some incel listens to you and murders 20 innocent non white people to stop the invasion you warned about you are in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation because you are a terrorist piece of shit who should in fact be expelled from the country instead of appearing on CNN. 

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JimmyJames

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3 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

I'm not saying he hit the bullseye here but there is something in the generic theme of this that is valid.  It was much, much, much, easier to get guns when I was growing up and where I grew up practically every boy over the age of 12 or 13 had at least a .410 or a .20 gauge shotgun and these things never happened.  We all had it pounded into our heads by our parents that except for the rare incident where your or somebody else's life is in immediate danger it was never, ever, ever, an option to kill another human.   I can't see how anyone can debate that message does not seem to resonate with youth in the same manner today.  I don't know why it is the case but I don't see how anyone born before 1980 or so can deny that observation.

Trump killed those people. Let us know if you agree or disagree. Nobody cares about your stupid ass bullshit story. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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The El Paso shooter’s manifesto is one of the saddest things I’ve read in a while.  This 21 year old hopeless soul was convinced he had no future in this country because Hispanics vote democrat and they were going to turn his state and country blue forever.  Not once did he ever consider reaching out to them and convincing them to seeing things his way.  

He embraced the same hatred of others espoused by our president and it cost him everything.  No one will mourn for him because of his heinous unspeakable acts of violence and the pain he inflicted on dozens of families merely trying to buy school supplies.  He’s a deeply disturbed individual but his story is also a tragedy.

It’s tragedy because I happen to believe this kid could have been steered in a better direction if someone would have gotten to him sooner.  If he wasn’t bombarded by the racist rhetoric and scapegoating perpetuated by the leaders WE have CHOSEN to place into power.  As much as we blame the president, it is also on all of us that elevated Trump and his ilk to lead this country with their malice and corruption. 

This shooting should cut this country deep.  God help us if it doesn’t. 

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EMAWesome

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6 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Actually when you advocate for racist and hate filled language and talk about invasions by non whites, and some incel listens to you and murders 20 innocent non white people to stop the invasion you warned about you are in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation because you are a terrorist piece of shit who should in fact be expelled from the country instead of appearing on CNN. 

So does Elizabeth Warren deserve blame for the Dayton shootings?

 

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts/

On social media, the suspect’s biography started to emerge. On his Twitter page, reviewed by Heavy, he described himself as “he/him / anime fan / metalhead / leftist / i’m going to hell and i’m not coming back.” He wrote on Twitter that he would happily vote for Democrat Elizabeth Warren, praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, “I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding.” The Greene County Board of Elections lists his party as “Dem.” You can read a roundup of his tweets – which also dealt with Parkland, Florida and 9/11 – here and later in this article. Here’s his tweet on Donald Trump’s election victory:

#2016Electionin3Words This is bad.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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An audience member at one of trumps hate rallies, in response to trump claiming there is nothing you can do to stop the invasion, said you should shoot them.

 Trump turned it into a joke.

Fox news lies to its sheep claiming that trump just shook his head. Yeah right. 

Trump murdered 20 people yesterday and then went to a wedding. He thinks this is all one big joke. 

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JimmyJames

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2 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

So does Elizabeth Warren deserve blame for the Dayton shootings?

 

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts/

 

 

No. The only president of the United states advocating for white nationalism and for the elimination of immigrants and the authority to implement that or prevent it is named trump. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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17 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

I actually don't disagree with you here.

So you got assigned troll duty tonight? 

And mick jagger is what you’ve come up with? While I admit mick would be a better president than president agent orange shitstain, from what I gather nobody else wants mick to be the president of the US. 

So maybe stop with your bullshit lame analogies. 

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BurdineBandit

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24 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

I'm not saying he hit the bullseye here but there is something in the generic theme of this that is valid.  It was much, much, much, easier to get guns when I was growing up and where I grew up practically every boy over the age of 12 or 13 had at least a .410 or a .20 gauge shotgun and these things never happened.  We all had it pounded into our heads by our parents that except for the rare incident where your or somebody else's life is in immediate danger it was never, ever, ever, an option to kill another human.   I can't see how anyone can debate that message does not seem to resonate with youth in the same manner today.  I don't know why it is the case but I don't see how anyone born before 1980 or so can deny that observation.

Well it appears that back in your day people may have actually believed when they prayed to, Christ. Guess what? That day has been replaced by a populace that worships their false idols (and that's not even partisan). And these here false idols in politics worship the only almighty, the dollar. And with that comes the worship of the NRA and the fueling of a racist fire, all because that's what's their base wants to hear (and that's how to get donations) and that's what will get them re-elected. Whether they believe in the racism or not. That's secondary to the dollar.

Asking for more prayer in schools is a nice little gesture or whatever, but your God has been replaced by what they really worship these days, and it's not holiness.

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EMAWesome

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8 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

No. The only president of the United states advocating for white nationalism and for the elimination of immigrants and the authority to implement that or prevent it is named trump. 

Does anyone have to listen to anything Trump says?  Does anyone have to agree with him?  No, any listener to whatever Trump says can choose to agree with him or choose not to agree with him.   I can't believe I'm pulling this one out of the parents' quotes from my childhood (then again considering the audience maybe acting like I am talking to a five year old could be effective) but if so and so told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?   Donald Trump didn't choose to go to that Wal-Mart and start killing people.  Shit for brains made that choice.  The consequences of that choice are on him.  I'm not responsible for what someone else does after reading one of my posts and no one else is responsible for what I do after reading anybody else's posts.   In 1969 one nutcase decided that the lyrics to Helter Skelter were a code to start a race war.  None of the other millions of people around the world who listened to the White Album made that decision.  The Beatles didn't kill Sharon Tate, the LoBiancas or anyone else those two nights.  Charles Manson and his acid fried followers did.

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Goredho

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A measure to help is right in front of us and is so fucking simple.   The law and processes — even the fucking forms — already exist.  Semi-automatic weapons capable of a capacity over 7 rounds simply need to be added to the list of class III weapons in the National Firearm Act.

An interesting and widely unknown fact, since the NFA went into effect in 1934, there has only been ONE, yes, ONE single felony committed in the whole United States since 1934 that involved a legally registered NFA firearm. And it was committed ironically by a crooked police officer who went to a drug house and shot someone on the premises. He used his legally acquired UZI sub machinegun to commit the crime.

https://www.oldglorygunsandammo.com/nfa-class-iii-weapons/

The bullshit arguments against gun regulation don’t hold up against the fact that no crimes are committed with our deadliest legally owned firearms because they are regulated by our most restrictive gun law.  You aren’t reading about mass shootings with full-auto firearms precisely because they are not easily accessible.  Fucking do it already.

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JimmyJames

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1 minute ago, EMAWesome said:

Does anyone have to listen to anything Trump says?  Does anyone have to agree with him?  No, any listener to whatever Trump says can choose to agree with him or choose not to agree with him.   I can't believe I'm pulling this one out of the parents' quotes from my childhood (then again considering the audience maybe acting like I am talking to a five year old could be effective) but if so and so told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?   Donald Trump didn't choose to go to that Wal-Mart and start killing people.  Shit for brains made that choice.  The consequences of that choice are on him.  I'm not responsible for what someone else does after reading one of my posts and no one else is responsible for what I do after reading anybody else's posts.   In 1969 one nutcase decided that the lyrics to Helter Skelter were a code to start a race war.  None of the other millions of people around the world who listened to the White Album made that decision.  The Beatles didn't kill Sharon Tate, the LoBiancas or anyone else those two nights.  Charles Manson and his acid fried followers did.

My mistake, it wasn’t just trump. You and trump killed those people. How much were you paid for it? 

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Jack Straw

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4 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Shit, I missed where Dan Patrick dusted off that old GOP standard,  the lack of prayer in schools:

 

 

They’re not even trying to articulate a legitimate  position or response.  VIDEO GAMES! PRAYER IN SCHOOLS!  ITS NOT A GUN PROBLEM! JESUS! 

What kind of brainwashed buffoons buy this stuff? 

Oh.  Republicans.  

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JimmyJames

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5 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Does anyone have to listen to anything Trump says?  Does anyone have to agree with him?  No, any listener to whatever Trump says can choose to agree with him or choose not to agree with him.   I can't believe I'm pulling this one out of the parents' quotes from my childhood (then again considering the audience maybe acting like I am talking to a five year old could be effective) but if so and so told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?   Donald Trump didn't choose to go to that Wal-Mart and start killing people.  Shit for brains made that choice.  The consequences of that choice are on him.  I'm not responsible for what someone else does after reading one of my posts and no one else is responsible for what I do after reading anybody else's posts.   In 1969 one nutcase decided that the lyrics to Helter Skelter were a code to start a race war.  None of the other millions of people around the world who listened to the White Album made that decision.  The Beatles didn't kill Sharon Tate, the LoBiancas or anyone else those two nights.  Charles Manson and his acid fried followers did.

Who exactly did Charles Manson kill? 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29595

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1 minute ago, BurdineBandit said:

Well it appears that back in your day people may have actually believed when they prayed to, Christ. Guess what? That day has been replaced by a populace that worships their false idols (and that's not even partisan). And these here false idols in politics worship the only almighty, the dollar. And with that comes the worship of the NRA and the fueling of a racist fire, all because that's what's their base wants to hear (and that's how to get donations) and that's what will get them re-elected. Whether they believe in the racism or not. That's secondary to the dollar.

Asking for more prayer in schools is a nice little gesture or whatever, but your God has been replaced by what they really worship these days, and it's not holiness.

They didn’t believe in real Christian ideals any more in the past than they do now. The difference was that the country was culturally theirs in their mind then. They weren’t facing a changing country and binging themselves on propaganda that is essentially identical to nazi propaganda between the world wars.

Lynch mobs 10,000 strong used to congregate when a black man looked at a white lady. These people are the same today, they just congregate online and encourage each other to go shoot up their perceived enemy. And they’re encouraged to do so by the president of the United States. He’s going to do everything his addled brain can think to do to ensure this shit only gets worse between now and the election. And what come in the days after, however the election goes, will be even more horrifying. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

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4 minutes ago, Goredho said:

A measure to help is right in front of us and is so fucking simple.   The law and processes — even the fucking forms — already exist.  Semi-automatic weapons capable of a capacity over 7 rounds simply need to be added to the list of class III weapons in the National Firearm Act.

This was my solution... but framed a bit differently

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JimmyJames

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1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Everything is so much easier to contextualize when you only start paying attention in 4Q2016. 

While it’s true I only started to care about people like yourself when after Trump got elected and I became aware of the threat you imposed, that doesn’t make me wrong, but perhaps you can actually attempt to engage instead. No worries if you don’t though. Whatever. 

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Goredho

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1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This was my solution... but framed a bit differently

Good on you.  It’s the right course, backed up by the number of crimes committed with our deadliest-but-most regulated firearms.  This works.  It has worked.  It will work again.  Fucking do it, “leaders”.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

He’s going to do everything his addled brain can think to do to ensure this shit only gets worse between now and the election. And what come in the days after, however the election goes, will be even more horrifying. 

This needs to be understood.  This is going to get worse.  The body count is the only unknown. 

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Doc Sam Beckett

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2 hours ago, retread said:

 

This shit is heartbreaking and unnecessary. Fuck you Donald. Fuck  you GOP. Fuck you racists. Fuck you "second ammendment" pussies. Fuck you thoughts and prayers pussies. Fuck you Ermerghad pussies who say if you take guns away they will build a nuclear bomb instead. 

 

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Helobious

Helobious 9823

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1 hour ago, tantric superman said:

I tried, but can't find an essay written by Richard Rodriguez, the author of the great "Hunger of Memory".  In the essay, he talks about how the Indians, at least through the mestizos, survived the conquistadors, and would inevitably survive the hardships they faced in the US Southwest, and would essentially take over.  It wasn't fearful or racist or particularly political -- the Children of Mexico would just make a life in the US, no matter how hard US politicians or even citizens made it.

Probably worth rereading some of this guys stuff.  If I can find that essay, I will post it.

So bizarre.  Having grown up in San Antonio, I always assumed lower income hispanics would be taken advantage of, just like all lower income folks are, but its hard to for me to believe that anyone could hate Mexican Americans, or fear us, whether we have assimilated or not.

I grew up in the valley and now live in SA. Sure there's racists everywhere, but I never in my life have felt much hostility towards hispanics from the whites around me. In high school there were total redneck confederate-flag belt buckle wearing classmates that were totally cool with us. Maybe that's partly a function of whites being the minority in south texas. But I do think it's telling that (generally) the whites that live around/with a bunch of hispanics don't seem to hate us much. For example even the El Paso shooter wasn't from there and didn't grow up around mexicans. Maybe it's just a Texas thing though, because Arizona seems racist as fuck despite a large hispanic population. 

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Anastasis

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3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

While it’s true I only started to care about people like yourself when after Trump got elected and I became aware of the threat you imposed, that doesn’t make me wrong, but perhaps you can actually attempt to engage instead. No worries if you don’t though. Whatever. 

People like myself?

Engage what exactly?

The threat that I impose?

Please. 

 

I do find it amusing however that simultaneous to claiming that our federal government is literally in the process of an authoritarian fascist takeover by Trumpian Republicans who will not process a peaceful transfer of power in 2021, you also want to take away the primary means of last resort from the American people. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13561

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It is 100% true that there is something unique about America in terms of this kind of violence that guns alone cannot explain.

"Prayer in schools" types see it. They see the atomization of the individual and the depravity that can come from lonely boys who are not integrated into a system. While their proposed solution is largely self-serving, it sees a real, underlying issue.

Marianne "Dark Psychic Forces" Williamson sees the same thing. Love vs. hate on the field of psychic battle.

The materialist analysis of a Bernie Sanders/socialist makes the most sense to me. Social mobility is low and we actively lie to ourselves and each other about it. The reality of our unequal economy comes crashing into these young men and they fall apart. They coalesce on forums and image boards and feed into each other's worst selves.

eCoNoMiC aNxIeTy arguments are insufficient, but they're real. 

If these fucking loser guys had hope for a future, they wouldn't do this.

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Michael Knight

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35 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Does anyone have to listen to anything Trump says?  Does anyone have to agree with him?  No, any listener to whatever Trump says can choose to agree with him or choose not to agree with him.   I can't believe I'm pulling this one out of the parents' quotes from my childhood (then again considering the audience maybe acting like I am talking to a five year old could be effective) but if so and so told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?   Donald Trump didn't choose to go to that Wal-Mart and start killing people.  Shit for brains made that choice.  The consequences of that choice are on him.  I'm not responsible for what someone else does after reading one of my posts and no one else is responsible for what I do after reading anybody else's posts.   In 1969 one nutcase decided that the lyrics to Helter Skelter were a code to start a race war.  None of the other millions of people around the world who listened to the White Album made that decision.  The Beatles didn't kill Sharon Tate, the LoBiancas or anyone else those two nights.  Charles Manson and his acid fried followers did.

 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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18 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

People like myself?

Engage what exactly?

The threat that I impose?

Please. 

 

I do find it amusing however that simultaneous to claiming that our federal government is literally in the process of an authoritarian fascist takeover by Trumpian Republicans who will not process a peaceful transfer of power in 2021, you also want to take away the primary means of last resort from the American people. 

I have no idea what you are talking about and you obviously have no idea what I was talking about so since we’re talking on the net let’s just drop it. 

I only care whether or not you oppose trump and denounce his hateful rhetoric. Answer that. 

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TexArcher

TexArcher 39074

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1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

It was much, much, much, easier to get guns when I was growing up and where I grew up practically every boy over the age of 12 or 13 had at least a .410 or a .20 gauge shotgun and these things never happened. 

Maybe things are getting worse in terms of general mental health.  Maybe our society is producing a different kind of young man than it used to.  Maybe the world is just meaner than it used to be.  Maybe we really are desensitized to violence and that makes it easier to commit atrocities than it used to be.

Fox News parrots use this line of reasoning and it basically amounts to, "it's not the gun's fault, it's society's fault."  Okay, fine.

But how do you not see that the only logical conclusion to that line of thought is to make all guns illegal immediately?  You're trying to defend gun owners' rights by pointing to an America that used to have guns everywhere with no issues compared to an America now with literally hundreds of mass shootings every year. 

Something has changed in this country.  You see it but aren't quite sure what it is or what to do about it.  And you want to keep military-grade firearms available at Academy while sociologists and psychologists research it and kids keep getting shot?

If we're this fucked up in the head as a society, the only reasonable response is to disarm us.

 

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 13238

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Let's just settle this once and for all,  the American people are by and large fat lazy and stupid if any power ,be it foreign or domestic ,wanted to jail them no amount of guns will help they would immediately capitulate. These pretend tough guy "need my guns to protect my freedoms" will be the first idiots to shoot themselves in the foot. 

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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55 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Does anyone have to listen to anything Trump says?  Does anyone have to agree with him?  No, any listener to whatever Trump says can choose to agree with him or choose not to agree with him.   I can't believe I'm pulling this one out of the parents' quotes from my childhood (then again considering the audience maybe acting like I am talking to a five year old could be effective) but if so and so told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?   Donald Trump didn't choose to go to that Wal-Mart and start killing people.  Shit for brains made that choice.  The consequences of that choice are on him.  I'm not responsible for what someone else does after reading one of my posts and no one else is responsible for what I do after reading anybody else's posts.   In 1969 one nutcase decided that the lyrics to Helter Skelter were a code to start a race war.  None of the other millions of people around the world who listened to the White Album made that decision.  The Beatles didn't kill Sharon Tate, the LoBiancas or anyone else those two nights.  Charles Manson and his acid fried followers did.

Did you really just use a Manson analogy here?

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