Active shooter thread

[BrickHorn 18176]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We won’t. Listen to Tucker Carlson for contrast. He says white supremacy doesn’t even exist. That view will prevail.

The minute Tucker Carlson stares straight into the camera and says “white people are no better than any other race” to a prime time Fox News audience, I’ll take him seriously.  Until then, he’s just gaslighting.

[Anastasis 23375]

27 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, that’s been going around...and it couldn’t be more spot-on. We are a country in deep denial, and always has been. American exceptionalism and all that.
And, confession: I’ve certainly been guilty of such thinking and denial. Mostly because I WANTED it to be the truth - who wouldn’t? But wanting it to be doesn’t make it true.
We have never owned up to our original, and ongoing sin. We have tried to convince ourselves that the Civil War was all the price to be paid. As if freeing the slaves solved the issue. A century-plus of institutional segregation and discrimination, lynchings, etc, tell us it wasn’t. And that’s just with respect to black folks. We were shittacular with respect to Chinese people, Hispanics, and hell, even the Irish and Italians.
When you have done wrong, and continue to be wrong, you have to start by acknowledging it. We can’t even come close.
We’ll keep doing this till it kills us. We have a built-in fatal flaw, and we’re going to feed it till it kills us.

All of this, but you forgot a little systematic genocide to the mix as well.

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Why do you keep going to this well?!? The Russia story is the most significant scandal in American History.   The national security advisor is still awaiting sentencing for being a fucking foreign agent and that’s the small part of the story.

The shit hit the fan well before 2016. 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Oh okay

[Anastasis 23375]

Glaude is an "anti-nationalist", using Hugo's misnomer, dwelling on historical flaws and fuck ups. 

Let's talk about Russia more. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Where is the gif?!? I came here for the gifs!!!

[Brisketexan 104462]

All of this, but you forgot a little systematic genocide to the mix as well.

Well, and we also exterminated the passenger pigeon, but I went with the abbreviated version of our shittiness.

[bolverk 29359]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, and we also exterminated the passenger pigeon, but I went with the abbreviated version of our shittiness.

DON'T FORGET THE TEXAS PRAIRIE CHICKEN!

 

[Brisketexan 104462]

DON'T FORGET THE TEXAS PRAIRIE CHICKEN!
 

Pisses me off. It’s the Attwater prairie chicken (get it right, fuckin’ Monkees), and we’re down to about 200 in the wild.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Pisses me off. It’s the Attwater prairie chicken (get it right, fuckin’ Monkees), and we’re down to about 200 in the wild.

I blame Ben Franklin.

[DixonHur 11074]

11 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I blame Ben Franklin.

Franklin was an oracle...he saw this future, which is why he pushed for the turkey as our national symbol...the bald eagle is way too dignified for us.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

Just now, DixonHur said:

Franklin was an oracle...he saw this future, which is why he pushed for the turkey as our national symbol...the bald eagle is way too dignified for us.

He also introduced the Chinese Tallow Tree to the US, which is one of the most destructive invasive species in the Southern US. It is pretty much the sole reason for the decline of the Attwater's Prairie Chicken among other things.

[jimmyjazz 45512]

That pales in comparison to the jackass who introduced the cedar tree to Central Texas.  (I'm talking to you, God.)

[DixonHur 11074]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

He also introduced the Chinese Tallow Tree to the US, which is one of the most destructive invasive species in the Southern US. It is pretty much the sole reason for the decline of the Attwater's Prairie Chicken among other things.

Actually that's been proven false through DNA.  He did send some seeds back from Europe, but those are not the ones that became invasive.

Genetic evidence clears Ben Franklin

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

9 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Actually that's been proven false through DNA.  He did send some seeds back from Europe, but those are not the ones that became invasive.

Genetic evidence clears Ben Franklin

I hadn't seen that bit. But regardless, he was the one who originally had the idea to introduce it as a crop tree, and it's likely that his legacy inspired the introduction of the strain that has destroyed so much Southern habitat.

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

2 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I hadn't seen that bit. But regardless, he was the one who originally had the idea to introduce it as a crop tree, and it's likely that his legacy inspired the introduction of the strain that has destroyed so much Southern habitat.

You could just admit you were wrong. I find your speculation that his "idea" was "likely" to have "inspired" some outcome to be unconvincing, given the circumstances. Sounds like you're just trying to save face. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

This hits close to home, my older brother worked at the National Prairie Chicken Refuge outside Sealy in high school.  

[Pancho 44358]

Ben Franklin crop talk not going away...

[American Swindle 102]

 I know it's difficult for many to look at things this way shortly after the wake of such atrocities, but I think Massie makes a great point here.  In the end, one inherently has the right to protect themselves and their property from the threat of violence and force.

 

 

[Foosters 17691]

3 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

 I know it's difficult for many to look at things this way shortly after the wake of such atrocities, but I think Massie makes a great point here.  In the end, one inherently has the right to protect themselves and their property from the threat of violence and force.

 

 

Hey man, if hundreds of dead men, women, and children every year are worth you sleeping better at night, then more power to you.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

3 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

 I know it's difficult for many to look at things this way shortly after the wake of such atrocities, but I think Massie makes a great point here.  In the end, one inherently has the right to protect themselves and their property from the threat of violence and force.

 

 

someone argues high capacity as self defense?  is he married to this lady?

 

(if you are being sarcastic and i didn't get it, forgive me.  because the lunacy is too hard to figure out these days)

 

[Brisketexan 104462]

 I know it's difficult for many to look at things this way shortly after the wake of such atrocities, but I think Massie makes a great point here.  In the end, one inherently has the right to protect themselves and their property from the threat of violence and force.
 
 

Extrapolate that. If the right to protect property is absolute, then I should be able to rig claymores to take out intruders, right?
And of course....the REASON the cops needed overkill was because the killer had...a weapon and magazine that we shouldn’t have allowed in the first place.
If we start letting people walk tigers on a leash, then you’ll make the argument that we all need tigers to protect ourselves from the other tigers.

[American Swindle 102]

42 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Extrapolate that. If the right to protect property is absolute, then I should be able to rig claymores to take out intruders, right?
And of course....the REASON the cops needed overkill was because the killer had...a weapon and magazine that we shouldn’t have allowed in the first place.
If we start letting people walk tigers on a leash, then you’ll make the argument that we all need tigers to protect ourselves from the other tigers.

I would argue Claymore mines do not have human discretion when it comes to the intent of the intruder on the property they are rigged on.  From an anarchists' lens, I think it could be argued that notifying intruders with signage of Claymore mines would be allowed.  Radical? Yes, but I think the argument could be made.  

If we boil down the argument, it sounds like many don't want civilians having a certain magazine capacity but simultaneously want to allow humans in the police force to use guns with the same capacity they want to ban to protect us.  Are we ready to go down that slippery slope of trusting the State NOT to further infringe on the 2A?  

As it's been said, "Once they take the 2nd, then it's only a matter of time they take away the 1st."  You see it in the UK now, people are literally going to jail over abusive tweets.  And history has already shown that once a country is disarmed, civil liberties and life are subsequently eroded.  

 

 

 

[David Dennison 18603]

3 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

I would argue Claymore mines do not have human discretion when it comes to the intent of the intruder on the property they are rigged on.  From an anarchists' lens, I think it could be argued that notifying intruders with signage of Claymore mines would be allowed.  Radical? Yes, but I think the argument could be made.  

If we boil down the argument, it sounds like many don't want civilians having a certain magazine capacity but simultaneously want to allow humans in the police force to use guns with the same capacity they want to ban to protect us.  Are we ready to go down that slippery slope of trusting the State NOT to further infringe on the 2A?  

As it's been said, "Once they take the 2nd, then it's only a matter of time they take away the 1st."  You see it in the UK now, people are literally going to jail over abusive tweets.  And history has already shown that once a country is disarmed, civil liberties and life are subsequently eroded.  

Which do you think are regulated more in this country, First Amendment rights or Second Amendment rights?

[Brisketexan 104462]

3 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

I would argue Claymore mines do not have human discretion when it comes to the intent of the intruder on the property they are rigged on.  From an anarchists' lens, I think it could be argued that notifying intruders with signage of Claymore mines would be allowed.  Radical? Yes, but I think the argument could be made.  

If we boil down the argument, it sounds like many don't want civilians having a certain magazine capacity but simultaneously want to allow humans in the police force to use guns with the same capacity they want to ban to protect us.  Are we ready to go down that slippery slope of trusting the State NOT to further infringe on the 2A?  

As it's been said, "Once they take the 2nd, then it's only a matter of time they take away the 1st."  You see it in the UK now, people are literally going to jail over abusive tweets.  And history has already shown that once a country is disarmed, civil liberties and life are subsequently eroded.  

 

 

 

Yes, I've spent time in Western Europe lately, which has stricter gun laws.  A real hell hole.  I barely escaped being imprisoned in a re-education camp.

What fucking bullshit.  If your argument is "we need to be equally armed as the state," that ship fucking sailed.  The Apache with Hellfire missiles out front shoulda told ya.  The superior command and control structure of a military unit that, if they decided to assault my house, would wipe my fucking ass out no matter how many mags I have for my AR shoulda told ya.

It is possible to have a functioning, non-totalitarian government AND reasonable gun control.  A crapload of countries have just that, right now, providing clear evidence that it can be done.

[Biff Tannen 45477]

All these pussies touting self defense need to realize they aren't nearly as important as they think they are.  They are just another human in a sea of humans.  Not special snowflakes.  They are the all singing, all dancing crap of the world.

[American Swindle 102]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Which do you think are regulated more in this country, First Amendment rights or Second Amendment rights?

I'm coming from a Constitutionally grounded position which is simply neither the 1A nor 2A shall be infringed upon so my opinion on whether one is more or less regulated vs the other matters not.  

Just cut to the chase and get to the gotcha moment!

[Brisketexan 104462]

1 minute ago, American Swindle said:

neither the 1A nor 2A shall be infringed upon

So, what does that mean?  What does "neither shall be infringed upon" mean?  Do tell us, Constitutional scholar.

[YChang 3430]

13 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

And history has already shown that once a country is disarmed, civil liberties and life are subsequently eroded. 

 

Maybe it's the difference of "traveling" around the world versus actually living there. But to echo Brisket's point... when I visit Europe, I'm not exactly witnessing the decline of a society. 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

I have another question for the 2A defenders.  Is it your contention that if not for 2A, the government would have long ago taken over?  Is it this threat of the common man and his personal arsenal that is keeping them at bay?

[Anastasis 23375]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes, I've spent time in Western Europe lately, which has stricter gun laws.  A real hell hole.  I barely escaped being imprisoned in a re-education camp.

What fucking bullshit.  If your argument is "we need to be equally armed as the state," that ship fucking sailed.  The Apache with Hellfire missiles out front shoulda told ya.  The superior command and control structure of a military unit that, if they decided to assault my house, would wipe my fucking ass out no matter how many mags I have for my AR shoulda told ya.

 It is possible to have a functioning, non-totalitarian government AND reasonable gun control.  A crapload of countries have just that, right now, providing clear evidence that it can be done.

The local and regional law enforcement are a much bigger concern, imo.  Which is why the increased militarization of LE in this country is particularly concerning. If you want to restrict mag size and weapon type to civilian citizens, you need to have equivalent restrictions to civilian LE. 

[DDD Dad 14167]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Extrapolate that. If the right to protect property is absolute, then I should be able to rig claymores to take out intruders, right?
And of course....the REASON the cops needed overkill was because the killer had...a weapon and magazine that we shouldn’t have allowed in the first place.
If we start letting people walk tigers on a leash, then you’ll make the argument that we all need tigers to protect ourselves from the other tigers.

A good guy with a tiger....

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

15 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I have another question for the 2A defenders.  Is it your contention that if not for 2A, the government would have long ago taken over?  Is it this threat of the common man and his personal arsenal that is keeping them at bay?

It turns out that these folks are enemies of democracy, want an authoritarian government, and want to get all their news from state-sponsored sources. 

[DDD Dad 14167]

14 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The local and regional law enforcement are a much bigger concern, imo.  Which is why the increased militarization of LE in this country is particularly concerning. If you want to restrict mag size and weapon type to civilian citizens, you need to have equivalent restrictions to civilian LE. 

I wonder why LE has become more militarized.  It can't be because of a proliferation of more militarized weapons among the citizenry.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

On 8/7/2019 at 10:31 AM, Ted Lange said:

 

 

Alaska...

[American Swindle 102]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes, I've spent time in Western Europe lately, which has stricter gun laws.  A real hell hole.  I barely escaped being imprisoned in a re-education camp.

What fucking bullshit.  If your argument is "we need to be equally armed as the state," that ship fucking sailed.  The Apache with Hellfire missiles out front shoulda told ya.  The superior command and control structure of a military unit that, if they decided to assault my house, would wipe my fucking ass out no matter how many mags I have for my AR shoulda told ya.

It is possible to have a functioning, non-totalitarian government AND reasonable gun control.  A crapload of countries have just that, right now, providing clear evidence that it can be done.

You still can't deny history or the slippery slope example of the abridgment of 1A rights in the UK from the example I gave after they implemented strict gun control.  

And your Apache Helicopter example can arguably used as the same reason people should be armed.  It's literally why the 2nd amendment was so important to the founders.  I'm still against any infringement on the 2A and can acknowledge you aren't.  And guess what? It's ok.     

[Anastasis 23375]

2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I wonder why LE has become more militarized.  

I don't know, couldn't possibly be because the MIC needs an ever expanding market to grow revenues and the federal government needs to spread that sweet ass federal dollar around. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Anastasis

[GW Hayduke 1950]

Is there a similarity between “muh guns” and “muh tendies?”

A person on a couch in a basement might feel that they have a right to tendies for dinner. Anything that threatens that right triggers an outcry of emotion, fear, and threat to their identity.

[American Swindle 102]

24 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

So, what does that mean?  What does "neither shall be infringed upon" mean?  Do tell us, Constitutional scholar.

 

infringe definition is - to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another. How to use infringe in a sentence:

The government shall make no law that infringes upon the 1st or 2nd amendment.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

11 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I wonder why LE has become more militarized.  It can't be because of a proliferation of more militarized weapons among the citizenry.

Well our war, inc. machine needs to keep selling new weapons to the military to keep that sweet dollar coming in. Gotta do something with all the old stuff. Might as well give them to the police.  Also, there might be some parallels between the prohibition of alchohol and the prohibition of drugs.

[Biff Tannen 45477]

11 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Is there a similarity between “muh guns” and “muh tendies?”

A person on a couch in a basement might feel that they have a right to tendies for dinner. Anything that threatens that right triggers an outcry of emotion, fear, and threat to their identity.

WTF is a tendie?

[SimonBolivar 10897]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

WTF is a tendie?

You need to brush up on your neckbeard culture. 

[Brisketexan 104462]

13 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

 

infringe definition is - to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another. How to use infringe in a sentence:

The government shall make no law that infringes upon the 1st or 2nd amendment.  

Circular.  Let's break it down into two questions.  1) Do we have laws that - using your definition - "infringe" upon the 1st and/or 2nd amendment?  2) Have many of those laws been upheld as constitutional?

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

14 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

 

infringe definition is - to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another. How to use infringe in a sentence:

The government shall make no law that infringes upon the 1st or 2nd amendment.  

holy shit.  i wasted a ton of time in my 1st amendment class.

[jimmyjazz 45512]

21 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

You still can't deny history or the slippery slope example of the abridgment of 1A rights in the UK from the example I gave after they implemented strict gun control.  

How were your 1A rights abridged during the Federal assault weapons ban (1994-2004)?

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

How were your 1A rights abridged during the Federal assault weapons ban (1994-2004)?

he could not longer say "hey, look at my assault rifle."

[jimmyjazz 45512]

1 minute ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

he could not longer say "hey, look at my assault rifle."

"This is my assault rifle

This is my assault gun

One is for killin' peeps

And the other is for rapin' them"

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[LonghornJudas 1090]

Do we have a mass stabbings thread yet?

Quote

4 dead, 2 wounded in Southern California stabbings

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A man who was “full of anger” went on a two-hour stabbing and robbery rampage in Southern California, killing four people and wounding two others, authorities said Wednesday.

The 33-year-old Garden Grove man was taken into custody after he came out of a 7-Eleven in Santa Ana, southeast of Los Angeles, and dropped a knife along with a handgun that he had taken from a guard, police said.

The violence appeared to be random and the only known motives seem to be “robbery, hate, homicide,” Garden Grove police Lt. Carl Whitney said at a news conference.

“We know this guy was full of anger and he harmed a lot of people tonight,” he said.

The suspect and all the victims were Hispanic, he added.

The attacks on more than a half-dozen places took place over about two hours in Garden Grove and neighboring Santa Ana.

The two people who were injured were listed in stable condition late Wednesday night and were expected to survive, Whitney said.

Detectives were interviewing the man and also expected to be at the various crime scenes through the night in order to collect evidence for a court case, Whitney said. Surveillance cameras caught some of the carnage.

“We have video showing him attacking these people and conducting these murders,” he said.

Whitney said the man lived in a Garden Grove apartment building where he stabbed two men during some kind of confrontation. One man died inside an apartment and another was found wounded on the balcony and died at a hospital.

Whitney said a bakery also was robbed.

The owner, who asked not to be identified, told KCAL-TV that she was charging her cellphone at about 4 p.m. when the man drove up and apparently mistook her for a customer.

“He went directly to the register and tried to open the register ... he showed me a gun,” she said. He took all the money and fled.

“I think I was very lucky because he thought I was a customer, not the owner,” she said.

The man also robbed an insurance business, where a 54-year-old employee was stabbed several times and was expected to survive.

He was armed with “some sort of machete knives” when he confronted the woman, Whitney said.

The woman “was very brave,” Whitney said. “She fought as best she could.”

An alarm company saw the robbery on a live television feed and called police.

“They could see that the female victim was on the ground with blood and multiple injuries,” Whitney said.

The man fled with cash and also robbed a check-cashing business next door, the lieutenant said.

Shortly after 6 p.m., the attacker drove up to a Chevron station, where he attacked a man pumping gas “for no reason,” Whitney said. “There was no robbery.”

The man was stabbed in the back and “his nose was nearly severed off his face,” the lieutenant said. Bystanders rushed to help the man, he said.

Undercover detectives tracked the suspect’s silver Mercedes to the parking lot of the 7-Eleven store in Santa Ana and within a minute of their arrival the man came out of the store, carrying a large knife and a gun that he had cut from the belt of a security guard after stabbing him, Whitney said.

The man had followed the guard into the store and stabbed him several times during a confrontation, Whitney said.

Police ordered the man to drop his weapons and he complied and was arrested.

Police then learned that a male employee of a nearby Subway restaurant also had been fatally stabbed during a robbery, Whitney said.

The brutal and puzzling attack came just days after a pair of mass shootings in Texas and Ohio left 31 people dead and stunned the nation. The shooter in El Paso, Texas, apparently posted an anti-immigrant screed before killing 22 people at a Walmart on Saturday. Less than a day later, a man opened fire on a Dayton, Ohio, entertainment district, killing nine people before police shot him dead.

 

 

[David Dennison 18603]

18 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

 

infringe definition is - to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another. How to use infringe in a sentence:

The government shall make no law that infringes upon the 1st or 2nd amendment.  

Hence, the strict scrutiny test established by SCOTUS to determine whether laws infringe upon those amendments.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

2 hours ago, American Swindle said:

 I know it's difficult for many to look at things this way shortly after the wake of such atrocities, but I think Massie makes a great point here.  In the end, one inherently has the right to protect themselves and their property from the threat of violence and force.

 

 

Then argue to make sawed off shotguns legal. Far more effective than a long gun in a house.