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Active shooter thread

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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4th&Five
4th&Five

Fuck off. You vote for this shit. Explain that to your kids. 

Pancho
Pancho

3rd leg of my move from Houston to the Bay Area, and I made it to LA.   I’m just now catching up on the news in my hotel.  I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again—I don’t have kids, but this e

royiv
royiv

WTF world are we living in when people are having a discussion about survival rates of certain rounds? People are being terrorized by gun violence and we're discussing which bullet has worse/better ch

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33825

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Another mass shooting prevented.  This guy was a cook at a hotel in California.  Here's a photo of his guns:


190821-weapons-rodolfo-montoya-ac-1150p_


 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/disgruntled-employee-had-arsenal-guns-threatened-mass-shooting-california-hotel-n1045076

clearly the solution is more guns

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89362

Posted
Posted

Just fucking lovely.  They did add on a charge of deadly conduct for leaving the rifle in the park.

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/man-who-had-rifle-in-austin-park-shouldnt-have-passed-background-check-to-buy-it-but-did

Quote

The owner of a local gun store told CBS Austin the man arrested in Pease Park after hiding a rifle in the bushes was able to legally purchase the firearm from him last month, despite having an active felony warrant.

Michael Cargill, owner of Central Texas Gunworks, also says 23-year-old Dalton Broesche took a concealed handgun permit class with him, but had no valid CHL permit when he encountered Austin Police.

...

According to Cargill, he sold Broesche the AR-556 in July after waiting three days for the required FBI background check to be completed.

Broesche was cleared to buy the weapon, despite having a felony warrant for his arrest out of Harris County from July 2018 for allegedly threatening his father with a knife.

That should have prevented him from buying the rifle, or owning any firearm whatsoever, according to ATF regulations.

Cargill blames Harris County for not processing the felony charge correctly so that it would show up on a background check.

Currently, Broesche is facing a deadly conduct charge for abandoning the rifle in the park in addition to the unlicensed carry charges.

 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted

$20 says if you forge these firearm applications with an "EZ" added to the end of the all the surnames, Dan Patrick would put a stop to it toot-sweet.  

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23375

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Just fucking lovely.  They did add on a charge of deadly conduct for leaving the rifle in the park.

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/man-who-had-rifle-in-austin-park-shouldnt-have-passed-background-check-to-buy-it-but-did

 

Sounds like he got a delay disposition on his NICS check. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted

Yes, Governor Patrick.  12 applications with active felony warrants for people with the surname "Martin"

Well, that's just them exercising their rights.

Wait sir, there was a smudge, 12 people named "Martinez".

What?  Round 'em up!  

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Sounds like he got a delay disposition on his NICS check. 

I was going to ask what a delay disposition is and what the NRA's/GOP's position is on the issue, but just decided to Google it myself.

 

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20190215/turning-a-right-into-a-privilege-hr-1112-gives-feds-unfettered-power-to-block-gun-sales

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23375

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

I was going to ask what a delay disposition is and what the NRA's/GOP's position is on the issue, but just decided to Google it myself.

 

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20190215/turning-a-right-into-a-privilege-hr-1112-gives-feds-unfettered-power-to-block-gun-sales

A delay is a 3 day hold that is issued because the NICS system could not clear the background check.  This could be the result of any number of situations.  Many lawful gun owners get hit with delays for anything from an overloaded system, to sound alike look alike names, to a non-prohibitive conviction record. If you get a delay, you cannot finish the purchase on that date.  The FBI has three days to complete their background check.  If they do not put a hold on the transfer within that three day period, the sale is allowed the proceed.

 

Whatever bill that you linked there represents a substantive change from the current delay procedures, so doesn't really tell us much regarding the current system. 

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

A delay is a 3 day hold that is issued because the NICS system could not clear the background check.  This could be the result of any number of situations.  Many lawful gun owners get hit with delays for anything from an overloaded system, to sound alike look alike names, to a non-prohibitive conviction record. If you get a delay, you cannot finish the purchase on that date.  The FBI has three days to complete their background check.  If they do not put a hold on the transfer within that three day period, the sale is allowed the proceed.

 

Whatever bill that you linked there represents a substantive change from the current delay procedures, so doesn't really tell us much regarding the current system. 

True, but it seems likely we can deduce from (if true) the fact that this guy was able to legally purchase a gun can tell us about the current system, and the NRA opposes changing it.

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Horn Under a Bad Sign

Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

When boomers complain about there being a lack of personal responsibility in this country, please show them this video. Just listen to the mother

 

 

 

You know, he may just be "a kid" at 15, as the mother says, but that 24 year old who shot all those people in Ohio and the 22 year old in El Paso were "just kids"  at 15, too.  They hadn't mass murdered anybody and any suggestion that they would do so one day would have been met with laughter and derision.  Point being,  alienated men come from alienated children.  One day they just decide they're not going to take it anymore.  

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23375

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

True, but it seems likely we can deduce from (if true) the fact that this guy was able to legally purchase a gun can tell us about the current system, and the NRA opposes changing it.

The problem is this case appears to be Harris county's failure to report the record.  That bill the NRA is discussing doesn't really have anything to do with that.  This is a breakdown related to a wholly different matter.

My opinion on the delay diposition, a three day period should be sufficient in a world with modern database technology and a database system dedicated to the query to clear the background check process. 

That being said, I would not be totally opposed to mandatory waiting periods for all purchases, including shotguns, handguns, and rifles. Ideally, there would be a pre-screen process that individuals could undertake that would allow for expedited (same day) approvals. Think TSA pre-check.

I would also not be opposed to moving the age requirement on purchase of semi-automatic rifles to coincide with the handgun requirements, nor opposed to background checks on all transfers as long as they are accessible.   

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The problem is this case appears to be Harris county's failure to report the record.  That bill the NRA is discussing doesn't really have anything to do with that.  This is a breakdown related to a wholly different matter.

My opinion on the delay diposition, a three day period should be sufficient in a world with modern database technology and a database system dedicated to the query to clear the background check process. 

That being said, I would not be totally opposed to mandatory waiting periods for all purchases, including shotguns, handguns, and rifles. Ideally, there would be a pre-screen process that individuals could undertake that would allow for expedited (same day) approvals. Think TSA pre-check.

I would also not be opposed to moving the age requirement on purchase of semi-automatic rifles to coincide with the handgun requirements, nor opposed to background checks on all transfers as long as they are accessible.   

Ok, I very well could be misunderstanding you, you're saying this isn't a case of delay disposition and more of Harris Co. dropping the ball?

Edited by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23375

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Ok, I very well could be misunderstanding you, you're saying this isn't a case of delay disposition and more of Harris Co. dropping the ball?

Based on what we know about the guy, that he had a felony warrant out for his arrest from July of last year, he should have received a denial on the spot at time the NICS was submitted. If he was delayed as a result of inability of the examiner to make a determination, a denial should have been issued during the three day delay period. Either Harris county fucked up the record or the FBI fucked up the search.  My strong suspicion would be that Harris county fucked up.

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F250

F250 28659

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

C+ as far as arsenal pron goes. 

D -

I've been pulled over by DPS with a bigger cache of firearms in the back of my truck along with a half a case of beer, bottle of Jack Daniels and Jim Beam plus an open container when I was 19 years old. The state cops were not phased by the guns, alcohol nor open beer bottle up front. This was outside Bandera, TX. Definitely a different time and place.

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4965

Posted
Posted

Well there are lots of gun owners who have suggested sensible measures we could take that would help things, but they aren't extreme enough for the left, and the left can't claim credit for it. Better to just do nothing than actually listen to those who are familiar with things and can possibly make a difference than let the wrong team get a win.

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horncyclist

horncyclist 1384

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Well there are lots of gun owners who have suggested sensible measures we could take that would help things, but they aren't extreme enough for the left, and the left can't claim credit for it. Better to just do nothing than actually listen to those who are familiar with things and can possibly make a difference than let the wrong team get a win.

Name "sensible measures"

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23375

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

Name "sensible measures"

1. universal background checks for all transfers.  FFLs required to process P2P transfers at no charge, can continue to charge for transfers from FFL to individual.

2. Raise age for all long arms to handgun levels. I would even go for age limits on all magazine purchases. 

3. Reform the NICS system to ensure that the appropriate inputs (LEO, mental health, etc.) are being entered into the database.

4. Enforce severe penalties on any form of criminal offense that involves a firearm, esp those that involve lying during the transfer process, straw purchases, etc. Make it hurt.

Couple extremely realistic places to start, and these are coming from someone who considers a pretty extreme 2nd Amendment position.    

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horncyclist

horncyclist 1384

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

1. universal background checks for all transfers.  FFLs required to process P2P transfers at no charge, can continue to charge for transfers from FFL to individual.

2. Raise age for all long arms to handgun levels. I would even go for age limits on all magazine purchases. 

3. Reform the NICS system to ensure that the appropriate inputs (LEO, mental health, etc.) are being entered into the database.

4. Enforce severe penalties on any form of criminal offense that involves a firearm, esp those that involve lying during the transfer process, straw purchases, etc. Make it hurt.

Couple extremely realistic places to start, and these are coming from someone who considers a pretty extreme 2nd Amendment position.    

I agree with all this. The NRA wouldn't let any of it happen. 

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4965

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

Name "sensible measures"

The left talks about closing the gun show loophole all the time, but when presented with an proposal that would allow private sellers the ability to perform background checks without having to go through an FFL and protecting the privacy of citizens it didn't get any support in the Senate except for from McCain. 

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UTDD

UTDD 362

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

1. universal background checks for all transfers.  FFLs required to process P2P transfers at no charge, can continue to charge for transfers from FFL to individual.

2. Raise age for all long arms to handgun levels. I would even go for age limits on all magazine purchases. 

3. Reform the NICS system to ensure that the appropriate inputs (LEO, mental health, etc.) are being entered into the database.

4. Enforce severe penalties on any form of criminal offense that involves a firearm, esp those that involve lying during the transfer process, straw purchases, etc. Make it hurt.

Couple extremely realistic places to start, and these are coming from someone who considers a pretty extreme 2nd Amendment position.    

Pretty reasonable starting points.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45513

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Well there are lots of gun owners who have suggested sensible measures we could take that would help things, but they aren't extreme enough for the left, and the left can't claim credit for it. Better to just do nothing than actually listen to those who are familiar with things and can possibly make a difference than let the wrong team get a win.

This is such a bullshit perspective.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45513

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

The left talks about closing the gun show loophole all the time, but when presented with an proposal that would allow private sellers the ability to perform background checks without having to go through an FFL and protecting the privacy of citizens it didn't get any support in the Senate except for from McCain. 

Great, you identified one proposal that allegedly didn't get any support and yet you've labeled the left as resistant to all proposals by gun owners.  Do you have any fucking idea how utterly irritating that is?  

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45513

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So outline what your problem with it is. As of now your "solution" is crying about how the other side won't do anything while simultaneously shooting down every proposal that actually stands a chance.

 

You'd have to provide a lot more information about how private gun owners would run background checks, as well as how their liability would come into play.  But more than that, you're being completely disingenuous when you imply that the left has stonewalled the right on any and all gun control measures.  In point of fact the left has promoted many such measures and the right is almost totally resistant to change.  But hey, blame the other guy.  

Edit:  neg repped for crying #turnaboutbitch

Edited by jimmyjazz
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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4965

Posted
Posted

There was link in my original post. It is an entirely sensible proposal. And yes, while the left stonewalled it, so did almost all of the right. I believe I mentioned that the only support it got was from Coburn and McCain. So both sides are responsible. It also had the support of several gun rights organizations. Of course the NRA opposed it, so the vast majority of the Republican party did as well.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

1. universal background checks for all transfers.  FFLs required to process P2P transfers at no charge, can continue to charge for transfers from FFL to individual.

2. Raise age for all long arms to handgun levels. I would even go for age limits on all magazine purchases. 

3. Reform the NICS system to ensure that the appropriate inputs (LEO, mental health, etc.) are being entered into the database.

4. Enforce severe penalties on any form of criminal offense that involves a firearm, esp those that involve lying during the transfer process, straw purchases, etc. Make it hurt.

Couple extremely realistic places to start, and these are coming from someone who considers a pretty extreme 2nd Amendment position.    

This would be good, but you don't support candidates who would do it.  You support candidates who fight any and all restrictions on gun ownership. 

3 hours ago, horncyclist said:

I agree with all this. The NRA wouldn't let any of it happen. 

And there is this. And the NRA has to support all of Anastasis' candidates.  Its tough to find a candidate that wants to prevent poor people from accessing healthcare while also wanting sensible gun control.  It's stupid that those and other positions are locked together but they are. 

In the end, you claim to want sensible reform, but you don't vote sensible. You won't have a say in the reforms that are coming because of it. Your ship has sailed. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23375

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Its tough to find a candidate that wants to prevent poor people from accessing healthcare while also wanting sensible gun control. 

source.gif

6 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

This would be good, but you don't support candidates who would do it.  You support candidates who fight any and all restrictions on gun ownership. 

So pitch me a candidate. Pitch me the specific candidate that represents a viewpoint that sensible common ground on gun control, such as the points I articulated, balancing second amendment rights, should be implemented.  I won't even require as a prerequisite to the discussion that they also want to grind the bones of children with cancer into meal. 

 

Edited by Anastasis
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