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Active shooter thread

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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4th&Five
4th&Five

Fuck off. You vote for this shit. Explain that to your kids. 

Pancho
Pancho

3rd leg of my move from Houston to the Bay Area, and I made it to LA.   I’m just now catching up on the news in my hotel.  I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again—I don’t have kids, but this e

royiv
royiv

WTF world are we living in when people are having a discussion about survival rates of certain rounds? People are being terrorized by gun violence and we're discussing which bullet has worse/better ch

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89396

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Yes, it's bad. What's worse is the Secretary acting like it is a nothingburger. Hey, former Secretary Mattis, how much would it cost me to pay you to go punch this clown?

 

In a active shooter situation in America, a normal brown person would be running their ass off to get away.  If there is an active shooter, and one or more Saudi students were standing around and filming it/watching, that means they had no fear of the shooter.  Why is that?

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4th&Five

4th&Five 41457

Posted
Posted

12:54 p.m. UPDATE: Police said in radio transmissions that a police officer was shot in Bayview Cemetery.

Two gunmen are firing upon police and people from a building on Martin Luther King Drive near Bidwell Avenue, injuring at least two police officers Tuesday afternoon.

Police said in radio transmission that the the gunmen are shooting at anyone they see on the street, and has fired at the Sacred Heart School.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89396

Posted
Posted (edited)

On a related note - Ol' Art is wanting to get into politics, me thinks.  He's going after Turtle, the NRA, Cornyn, and Cruz, and he's getting a shitload of attention around the US.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/12/09/houston-police-chief-criticizes-gop-nra-sot-vpx.ktrk

Edit: Acevedo made the comments after the funeral for one of his officers.  Twitter is now saying that one of the cops shot today is dead.  Wonder if Cornyn is going to be as snide as he was.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted

the fact that this is just another normalish shooting is a major problem.

this looks like the exception - there were actually two shooters.

Quote

One police officer, three civilians, and two suspects are dead after a multi-hour SWAT standoff at a kosher market in Jersey City. 

The Hudson County Prosecutor's Office confirmed that one police officer - a 39-year-old married father of five - was fatally shot and two others were wounded along with a civilian in the active shooter situation on Martin Luther King Drive on Tuesday afternoon. 

An unnamed federal law enforcement source told Fox News that two juvenile suspects - one male and one female -  were shot and killed in a stand-off with police, along with three other people who were inside the bodega. A third suspect, described by the source as a black male wearing all black, is still at large. 

The suspects are believed to have arrived in the area in a U-Haul rental van, where police found devices they described as 'pipe bombs', according to nj.com. Authorities are now searching for the person who rented the vehicle. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7777555/Two-men-open-fire-cops-bodega-Jersey-City-sending-nearby-school-lockdown.html

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28703

Posted
Posted

They were saying that by reviewing security cam video recordings, they determined that the market was targeted. I'll be interested to know what they saw that led to that determination. The two were first confronted at a cemetery, that's where the shootout started, and then they fled to the market. How do we know that wasn't just a target of convenience? I guess maybe they have video of the two casing the joint beforehand. I can't think of anything else that would suggest it was targeted. That's assuming they didn't come into the store waving Nazi flags or anything like that. 

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

They were saying that by reviewing security cam video recordings, they determined that the market was targeted. I'll be interested to know what they saw that led to that determination. The two were first confronted at a cemetery, that's where the shootout started, and then they fled to the market. How do we know that wasn't just a target of convenience? I guess maybe they have video of the two casing the joint beforehand. I can't think of anything else that would suggest it was targeted. That's assuming they didn't come into the store waving Nazi flags or anything like that. 

Sounds like they killed the cop, and then they hopped in a van and drove to the market. So, not so much fleeing to the market, as it was regrouping and then targeting the market. The cop was in plain clothes, so I wonder if there may have been some pseudo undercover deal gone bad.  

Quote

"We now know this did not begin with gunfire between police officers," city Public Safety Director James Shea said. "It began with an attack on civilians in the store."

Shea, speaking at a news conference, said surveillance video showed two suspects pull up in front of the bodega in a stolen van, slowly exit the van armed with long guns, and "immediately begin firing."

...

The suspects then drove a stolen rental van to another part of the city and engaged police in the lengthy shootout from inside the kosher market. The shootout lasted two hours before police killed the suspects at about 2:30 p.m. 

USA Today

 

Edited by Tuco
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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

They were saying that by reviewing security cam video recordings, they determined that the market was targeted. I'll be interested to know what they saw that led to that determination. The two were first confronted at a cemetery, that's where the shootout started, and then they fled to the market. How do we know that wasn't just a target of convenience? I guess maybe they have video of the two casing the joint beforehand. I can't think of anything else that would suggest it was targeted. That's assuming they didn't come into the store waving Nazi flags or anything like that. 

The market seems like a small target for assholes like this.  I would think it would be more likely that the school was their original intended target.  The police officer confronting them while they were prepping in the cemetery may have changed their plans.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28703

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Sounds like they killed the cop, and then they hopped in a van and drove to the market. So, not so much fleeing to the market, as it was regrouping and then targeting the market. The cop was in plain clothes, so I wonder if there may have been some pseudo undercover deal gone bad.  

USA Today

 

Did they stay at the cemetery or did they flee the scene of their cop-killing? Where did they go? I think "fled to the market" is an accurate description of what happened. That's all I'm saying. 

I need more information. What were they doing in the cemetery that drew suspicion? Were they planning to hit the market already and got interrupted? Were they being watched or was it just happenstance that a cop confronted them? What in the security cam video indicated the place was targeted? That's assuming the reporting I heard is accurate. It often takes some time after an event like this to figure out all the details and mistakes can get made early on by both the authorities and the media in their efforts to report the story. 

I'm not saying I doubt the reporting. I just don't know and am curious to learn more. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104537

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Did they stay at the cemetery or did they flee the scene of their cop-killing? Where did they go? I think "fled to the market" is an accurate description of what happened. That's all I'm saying. 

I need more information. What were they doing in the cemetery that drew suspicion? Were they planning to hit the market already and got interrupted? Were they being watched or was it just happenstance that a cop confronted them? What in the security cam video indicated the place was targeted? That's assuming the reporting I heard is accurate. It often takes some time after an event like this to figure out all the details and mistakes can get made early on by both the authorities and the media in their efforts to report the story. 

I'm not saying I doubt the reporting. I just don't know and am curious to learn more. 

Yeah, this story is still REALLY thin on facts.

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Did they stay at the cemetery or did they flee the scene of their cop-killing? Where did they go? I think "fled to the market" is an accurate description of what happened. That's all I'm saying.

 

More info would be nice.  But, from the article, it sounds like they killed the cop at the cemetery and the drove to the store, got out, and continued the killing spree on civilians before other cops engaged.  It doesn't sound like they were being pursued.  That doesn't sound like someone trying to get away.  Killing potential hostages is not usually an opening move. 

I either missed this earlier, or the article was updated: 

Quote

However, multiple media outlets including The New York Times reported that one of the suspects had published anti-Semitic posts on social media.

From the NYT: 

Quote

An assailant involved in a prolonged firefight in Jersey City, N.J., that left six people dead, including one police officer, had published anti-Semitic and anti-police posts online and investigators believe the attack was motivated by those sentiments, a law enforcement official familiar with the case said on Wednesday.

Investigators also found a manifesto-style note inside the assailants’ van, the law enforcement official and another official familiar with the case said.

The document, which was described as brief and “rambling,” suggested no clear motive for the shooting. Investigators also found a live pipe bomb inside the vehicle, the law enforcement official said.

 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Did they stay at the cemetery or did they flee the scene of their cop-killing? Where did they go? I think "fled to the market" is an accurate description of what happened. That's all I'm saying. 

I need more information. What were they doing in the cemetery that drew suspicion? Were they planning to hit the market already and got interrupted? Were they being watched or was it just happenstance that a cop confronted them? What in the security cam video indicated the place was targeted? That's assuming the reporting I heard is accurate. It often takes some time after an event like this to figure out all the details and mistakes can get made early on by both the authorities and the media in their efforts to report the story. 

I'm not saying I doubt the reporting. I just don't know and am curious to learn more. 

 

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, this story is still REALLY thin on facts.

i mean, it's the mail, so their reporting is all over the place, but if you sift through the text, the facts are there. the mail is a good aggregation source for events like this, even if they just add paragraphs of text to existing stories:

Quote

The chaos began shortly before 12.30pm, when Detective Joseph Seals, 39, was shot dead by the two suspects at the Bay View Cemetery, which is a Protestant Christian burial ground.

Seals, a married father of five and member of the CeaseFire Unit dedicated to de-escalating gun violence, was investigating the death of Michael Rumberger, 34. 

He was found dead on Saturday.  

Sources say that Seals spotted a stolen U-Haul van that police suspected was linked to Rumberger's murder, and approached the vehicle near the cemetery, WNBC-TV reported. 

Quote

Speaking at a press conference at the scene on Wednesday, Mayor Fulop said: 'There are still a lot of questions but after reviewing the CCTV cameras, we do feel comfortable saying that it was a targeted attack on the Jewish Kosher Deli. 

'[The footage showed] the van moving slowly, the perpetrators then stopped in front of there, calmly opened the door with two long rifles and began firing from the street into the facility. 

'Two officers on a walking post about a block south when they heard the gunshots. They responded immediately. 

'Had they not, it's more than likely more people would have died. The reason those perpetrators were inside that deli and could not go on, possibly to a school, or to inflict more harm was because the police responded immediately and returned fire,' he said.   

Quote

The shooters in Tuesday's deadly Jersey City rampage have been named as a man who posted anti-Semitic sentiments online sometime before launching his killing spree with a female partner.  

The assailants were named as Francine Graham and David Anderson by NBC on Wednesday. 

According to police sources, Anderson was a one time follower of  the Black Hebrew Israelite movement whose members believe they are descendants of the ancient Israelites. 

Inside the U-Haul he and Graham were driving was a note containing religious writings but it is unclear what it said. Anderson had also posted anti-Semitic and anti-police sentiments on social media. 

pretty clear that this was a anti-semitic hate crime.

edit: sorry forgot the link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7779493/Gunmen-targeted-Jewish-community-Jersey-City-officials-say.html

 

Edited by hayden_horn
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104537

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Posted
2 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

According to police sources, Anderson was a one time follower of  the Black Hebrew Israelite movement whose members believe they are descendants of the ancient Israelites. 

Inside the U-Haul he and Graham were driving was a note containing religious writings but it is unclear what it said. Anderson had also posted anti-Semitic and anti-police sentiments on social media. 

Well, but maybe not your typical anti-semitic hate crime.....the Black Hebrew Israelites are an ODD bunch.  It may be a broader "religious nutbar" crime....but like I said, those are an odd bunch, so we'll have to see what he's posting about.  I mean, if his note was 'no, WE'RE the real jews, and y'all are pretenders," that's different than the typical anti-semitic stuff we see.  I mean, I guess the difference doesn't much matter when you're on the receiving end of a bullet, but in terms of understanding the source of the violence, maybe it is.

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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Posted
1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I guess anything you point your gun and shoot at is a target. Is that all they're saying?

No, what they are saying is that these people bypassed the potential of escape or killing other random people and decided to drive to this deli, and then point their guns and shoot the people in the deli.  

I'm not sure what your hangup is on this. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28703

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Tuco said:

No, what they are saying is that these people bypassed the potential of escape or killing other random people and decided to drive to this deli, and then point their guns and shoot the people in the deli.  

I'm not sure what your hangup is on this. 

Saying it was "targeted" suggests to me that they planned in advance to attack this specific market. The report that they determined it was targeted based on video evidence, according to what you posted, said they slowed down in front of the business and started firing into it. That isn't conclusive evidence that they planned ahead of time to attack this specific market. Maybe they did, maybe they just picked a place at random. According to the description, literally any random location they chose to attack would have qualified as being "targeted." They pulled up and started shooting, therefore it was targeted. 

Again, I'm not saying it wasn't targeted, just that I'm still not seeing how the video evidence determines it was targeted, assuming the definition of "targeted" means that they planned in advance, before the shooting at the cemetery, to attack this specific location. 

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13545

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ring a bell?

 

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/jersey-city-shootout-developing-details-3/2239660/?akmobile=y&akdevice=androidphone&sslEnabled=true&amp

 

The two people who stormed a kosher grocery store in Jersey City with rifles, killing three people inside and also murdering a veteran detective, have been identified as David Anderson and Francine Graham, four law enforcement sources familiar with the case tell News 4.

Who Are Jersey City Shootout Suspects?

Three sources say Anderson was a one-time follower of the Black Hebrew Israelite movement, a group whose members believe they are descendants of the ancient Israelites and may adhere to both Christian and Judaic beliefs. 

Edited by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand
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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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Posted
52 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

You're probably right, but overall the Buddhists are pretty chill.

Quote

Bound together, the 10 Rohingya captives watched their Buddhist neighbors dig a grave. Soon afterwards, on the morning of Sept. 2, all 10 lay dead. At least two were hacked to death by Buddhist villagers. The rest were shot by soldiers, two of the gravediggers said.

The killings marked another episode in the violence sweeping Myanmar’s northern Rakhine State. The Rohingya accuse the army of arson, rapes and killings. The United Nations has said the army may have committed genocide. Myanmar says its “clearance operation” is a legitimate response to attacks by insurgents.

Rohingya trace their presence in Rakhine back centuries. But most people in majority-Buddhist Myanmar consider them to be unwanted Muslim immigrants from Bangladesh. The army refers to the Rohingya as “Bengalis,” and most lack citizenship. In recent years, the government has confined more than 100,000 Rohingya in camps where they have limited access to food, medicine and education. Nearly 690,000 Rohingya have fled their villages and crossed the border into Bangladesh since August.

Reuters has pieced together what happened in the days leading up to the killings in Inn Din, drawing for the first time on interviews with Buddhist villagers who confessed to torching Rohingya homes, burying bodies and killing Muslims....

Myanmar

Although, I think it is more representative of majority v. minority, or nativist v. immigrant, rather than Buddhist v. Muslim.  People are people, and people suck. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28703

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Ring a bell?

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/jersey-city-shootout-developing-details-3/2239660/?akmobile=y&akdevice=androidphone&sslEnabled=true&amp

The two people who stormed a kosher grocery store in Jersey City with rifles, killing three people inside and also murdering a veteran detective, have been identified as David Anderson and Francine Graham, four law enforcement sources familiar with the case tell News 4.

Who Are Jersey City Shootout Suspects?

Three sources say Anderson was a one-time follower of the Black Hebrew Israelite movement, a group whose members believe they are descendants of the ancient Israelites and may adhere to both Christian and Judaic beliefs. 

No, I can't say that it does ring a bell. I don't think I've ever heard of the Black Hebrew Israelites before. What am I missing?

Edited by WhatTheBuck
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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13545

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

No, I can't say that it does ring a bell. I don't think I've ever heard of the Black Hebrew Israelites before. What am I missing?

They're an infinitesimally small group who through sheer coincidence I had heard about literally the week before the Covington kid ordeal. If I'm not mistaken, it was their video that was used of the incident. I remarked at the time it being curious they were there.  Maurice Woodside aka "Black Man for Trump" who gained the moniker for routinely getting in the camera shot at Trump rallies, was a member of a Black Israelite offshoot.

Edited by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand
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Tuco

Tuco 5076

Posted
Posted

Heavy has a write-up on Anderson. 

Something worth mentioning: before the incident with the first cop (Seals), they had stolen a U-haul. (There is speculation that the stolen U-haul is the related to a murder Seals was investigating.) Murderous fucks with moving trucks concern me.  In addition to their use for ramming crowds, they can be packed with explosives for Oklahoma City type attacks.  Police warned of the van being "hot", but it sounds like that was just pipe bombs.  

At any rate, I have a feeling that as bad as it was, this easily could have been much worse. 

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