Active shooter thread

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4999]

22 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

What’s the demographic makeup of sex spa workers in Georgia? In Texas it’s 90+% Asian. If his goal was to kill rub-n-tug workers they were going to be mostly Asian women. 

Of course the converse is if he were specifically looking for Asian women to kill, a sex spa is a good place to go. It’s a horrible event and I hope he never sees the outside of a prison

There is no room for logical analysis when you come from a worldview of hating all men except Beto.

[Hookah Horns 3089]

On 3/18/2021 at 5:16 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

So, to get this clear, you wanted to hear what Asian people thought on the topic and were willing to retire it. Several Asian people told you, and now it’s “nope, gonna double down.” 

Look, I get this. I’ve watched John Hughes movies, too and liked them. A lot of people thought the prank was funny. No one wants to think about themselves as someone who laughs at racist shit. No one likes to think of movies they enjoyed as being racist.

Its OK to move on. It’s OK to admit, “that was some racist shit we used to think was funny. Glad that’s not coming out of Hollywood anymore.”

 

I'm not doubling down. I'm not going to reference the prank again. What I came back and started debating was @Dahobbsassertion that anyone making such a joke necessarily believes Asians are inferior and trying to bully them. That's horseshit in my opinion. 

[Hookah Horns 3089]

On 3/18/2021 at 4:39 PM, Dahobbs said:

Dude, take intent out of it. It is fucking offensive. Just trust me on this one. 

And to clarify, the airline news report where those names came out, the humor wasn't because the names were funny. They weren't. They were stupid and offensive. The humor was because the news report stupidly displaying (saying? I remember the screen, don't know if anyone actually verbalized the names) the names despite it being clear that they were not real. 

I didn't argue that nobody should be offended by it, and I've already said that's what the humor came from and the only reason I ever referenced it. I was only arguing about your contention that anyone who references it is trying to bully and make Asians feel inferior. I reject that, but I accept that it's offensive and won't be saying it again. 

[Hookah Horns 3089]

On 3/18/2021 at 11:28 PM, Bama Chick said:

Anyone still pushing the “Maybe he just wanted to kill women and their race was incidental” bullshittery can just stop.

Georgia’s population is 3% Asian.

Cherokee County, Georgia’s population is 2% Asian.

SIX of his eight victims were Asian. 75%.
 

I wonder what percentage of seedy massage parlor workers are Asian? I suspect it's pretty high. 

I'm not saying I don't believe race was a motive. I'm just saying that if for some reason you wanted to kill people in that occupation, your victims are probably going to be mostly Asian women. 

It also seems to me that people who commit hate crime murders usually aren't shy about admitting that motive. 

[tantric superman 4668]

Hookah is exactly right (on his most recent post). 

Would it really kill you guys to wait until you have solid evidence that this is clearly race related before you pontificate?

The difference between having a damn solid supposition and supporting evidence is important. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by tantric superman

[Dahobbs 18324]

1 hour ago, tantric superman said:

Hookah is exactly right (on his most recent post). 

Would it really kill you guys to wait until you have solid evidence that this is clearly race related before you pontificate?

The difference between having a damn solid supposition and supporting evidence is important. 

Uh, we do have solid evidence. We don't have definitive evidence, but I don't see why that should be the criteria for discussion. The evidence points to basically two potential motives or a combination of the two, race or sex related. That's pretty much it. Like, we don't think he shot these places up because he hates massages. And we don't think he did it because he was upset about his taxes, or the prices he was charged, or because of a dispute with another customer. He shot up multiple locations that basically share two traits in common: Asian owned/operated and the type of business. I think discussion of either of those potential motives should be fair game. It's weird that anyone would feel differently. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Dahobbs

[Neonmoon 38130]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Uh, we do have solid evidence. We don't have definitive evidence, but I don't see why that should be the criteria for discussion. The evidence points to basically two potential motives or a combination of the two, race or sex related. That's pretty much it. Like, we don't think he shot these places up because he hates massages. And we don't think he did it because he was upset about his taxes, or the prices he was charged, or because of a dispute with another customer. He shot up multiple locations that basically share two traits in common: Asian owned/operated and the type of business. 

I posted in the Dumb Thread but there is another angle. In short, whether it was race or sex, It could be both in this instance. Asian women are  stereotyped as submissive and are hyper sexualized in the media. For example “She was my first Asian”, “Me So Horny. Me love you long time.” The Asian girl as an exotic sex object is a frequently used trope. In essence, this racial stereotype dehumanizes Asian women as they are seen as sex objects and not people, not deserving of equal treatment, thus the shooter having the confidence to go kill a bunch of Asian women could be construed as racist in itself. I’m not saying this definitely was the case, but it’s an angle whites like myself might not be keenly aware of, or sensitive to. 

[956 Worldwide 35594]

20 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I posted in the Dumb Thread but there is another angle. In short, whether it was race or sex, It could be both in this instance. Asian women are  stereotyped as submissive and are hyper sexualized in the media. For example “She was my first Asian”, “Me So Horny. Me love you long time.” The Asian girl as an exotic sex object is a frequently used trope. In essence, this racial stereotype dehumanizes Asian women as they are seen as sex objects and not people, not deserving of equal treatment, thus the shooter having the confidence to go kill a bunch of Asian women could be construed as racist in itself. I’m not saying this definitely was the case, but it’s an angle whites like myself might not be keenly aware of, or sensitive to. 

Yeah, there is a lot of room for this to be at least partially racially motivated even if the guy did not actively say to himself “I hate Asian people and want to harm them.” That’s what unconscious bias is all about, the idea that even if we do not sit around actively hating people different from us, whites like you and me have absorbed a toxic brew just from the ambient atmosphere and we need to consciously think about that and modify behavior accordingly. 

[MissingInAction 25556]

On 3/19/2021 at 10:36 AM, Bama Chick said:

Maybe I’m naive but these ages don’t seem to jibe with “sex workers”.
 

Sounds like someone who has never had a happy ending would say. 

[tantric superman 4668]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Uh, we do have solid evidence.

What evidence do you have that this crime would not have been committed had the massage business been staffed primarily by African Americans, or Hispanics, or Latvians, or simply represented the local diveristy?

[tantric superman 4668]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

We don't have definitive evidence, but I don't see why that should be the criteria for discussion.

Just because most online discussion is moronic and jumps to conclusion doesn't mean that a thread alleging racism doesn't have a slightly higher standard.

[Dahobbs 18324]

9 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

What evidence do you have that this crime would not have been committed had the massage business been staffed primarily by African Americans, or Hispanics, or Latvians, or simply represented the local diveristy?

Again, this is an absurd level of proof you're requiring for mere discussion. There are two fucking possible motives: race and sex. It may be all about the sex thing, but to just dismiss race and refuse to even allow discussion of the possibility is fucking asinine. Here is how it works, we take the evidence that we have and make reasonable inferences from it. The evidence we have is that he targeted Asian establishments and that the vast majority of his victims were Asian. We also don't have evidence that proves that his victims weren't actually extraterrestrials bent on the eradication of humanity. So, maybe you shouldn't fucking discuss the sex thing either. Maybe, since we can't definitely rule out an infinite number of possible motives, we should just ignore the whole thing happened and never mention it. Or maybe we can just be reasonable and discuss the things that actually have some general possibility of being true based on available data.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Dahobbs

[tantric superman 4668]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Again, this is an absurd level of proof you're requiring for mere discussion.

Not really, I was just defending a particular post:

 

Quote

 

I wonder what percentage of seedy massage parlor workers are Asian? I suspect it's pretty high. 

I'm not saying I don't believe race was a motive. I'm just saying that if for some reason you wanted to kill people in that occupation, your victims are probably going to be mostly Asian women. 

It also seems to me that people who commit hate crime murders usually aren't shy about admitting that motive. 

 

If I was a lunatic, and was diagnosed with diabetes because I ate donuts every day for breakfast, and I went and murdered the folks who ran five random indy donut shops in Dallas, you'd automatically conclude I had an anti-Korean animus? 

 

 

[tantric superman 4668]

12 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

but to just dismiss race and refuse to even allow discussion of the possibility is fucking asinine

You're probably not an idiot, and you probably can read, but based on this sentence, the evidence suggests otherwise.

[Dahobbs 18324]

12 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Not really, I was just defending a particular post:

 

If I was a lunatic, and was diagnosed with diabetes because I ate donuts every day for breakfast, and I went and murdered the folks who ran five random indy donut shops in Dallas, you'd automatically conclude I had an anti-Korean animus? 

 

 

I had no problem with that post. I had a problem with your post suggesting that we had to wait until we had "clear" evidence that it was race related before even talking about it. That is stupid. 

8 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

You're probably not an idiot, and you probably can read, but based on this sentence, the evidence suggests otherwise.

What about that sentence was incorrect? That's exactly what you're doing, and I don't understand it or the hostility. But, sure, be an asshole.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Dahobbs

[Dahobbs 18324]

9 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

 

If I was a lunatic, and was diagnosed with diabetes because I ate donuts every day for breakfast, and I went and murdered the folks who ran five random indy donut shops in Dallas, you'd automatically conclude I had an anti-Korean animus? 

 

 

Uh, if those five random donut shops were Korean owned, I would certainly consider it a possibility. I don't think you're making the point you think you're making. 

[tantric superman 4668]

Actually, Dahobbs, I went apeshit on twitter attacking a couple of commentary podcast idiots for just taking this asshole at his words that it wasn't about race, and I'm waiting for a it more evidence to go after them again.

Within hours after the capitol riot, all these facebook idiots started posting pictures of Shaman Trumpster or whatever, and frankly, at the time, I was 99% sure they were wrong, but didn't want to say anything until I was absolutely sure, and that certainty came the next day.

I'm just trying to be doubly sure when I throw around racism.  So it's mostly just me feeling like it's bad juju to judge too quickly.

[Dahobbs 18324]

1 minute ago, tantric superman said:

Actually, Dahobbs, I went apeshit on twitter attacking a couple of commentary podcast idiots for just taking this asshole at his words that it wasn't about race, and I'm waiting for a it more evidence to go after them again.

Within hours after the capitol riot, all these facebook idiots started posting pictures of Shaman Trumpster or whatever, and frankly, at the time, I was 99% sure they were wrong, but didn't want to say anything until I was absolutely sure, and that certainty came the next day.

I'm just trying to be doubly sure when I throw around racism.  So it's mostly just me feeling like it's bad juju to judge too quickly.

We dont have conclusive evidence. And the truth is we may never know for certain. I think it is just as stupid to conclusively say it is race as it is dismiss race as a motive. I think we have to recognize the possibility and that can trigger a broader discussion about how our country views and treats Asians. 

[tantric superman 4668]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Uh, if those five random donut shops were Korean owned, I would certainly consider it a possibility. I don't think you're making the point you think you're making. 

You're avoiding the question I posed.  Those random shops are going to be Korean owned because Koreans have a monopoly on independent donut shops in Dallas.  No problem with you considering it a possibility, but would have a big problem with you didn't factor in the fact that virtually all potential victims would be Korean.

Am I looking at all angles to see if it's possible that there is a non-racial angle?

Sure.  It's what I usually do.

[Guest Lobo]

SoKronut talk not going away.

[tantric superman 4668]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I think we have to recognize the possibility and that can trigger a broader discussion about how our country views and treats Asians. 

We discriminate against them in terms of admission to colleges and selective secondary school.

Other than that, the stupidity around covid and Trumpism is making the instances of ad hoc discrimination spike.

Broader discussion -- misguided and stupidly overly broad making up a big proportion of the broader discussion, highly likely.

 

[tantric superman 4668]

5 minutes ago, Lobo said:

SoKronut talk not going away.

KrispyKreme<SoKronut<shipley's

[Dahobbs 18324]

8 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

You're avoiding the question I posed.  Those random shops are going to be Korean owned because Koreans have a monopoly on independent donut shops in Dallas.  No problem with you considering it a possibility, but would have a big problem with you didn't factor in the fact that virtually all potential victims would be Korean.

Am I looking at all angles to see if it's possible that there is a non-racial angle?

Sure.  It's what I usually do.

I don't know anything about the donut shop scene in Dallas, so I wasn't avoiding anything. I just didn't understand what you were referencing. I agree those factors need to be considered. I think it is equally important to consider that there are a lot more types of sex establishments in Atlanta than just rub and tugs. You can't just ignore the fact that he went out of his way to target Asian run businesses, particularly when he could have more easily found strip clubs and street corners with non-Asian sex workers. As I said, discussion of the possibility that it is race related given the circumstances is entirely warranted and appropriate. 

Frankly, it doesn't sound like we really disagree. I just took exception to the particularly language you used, and perhaps you didn't intend the overly restrictive limitation on discussion that I took away from it. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

This whole thing is dumb. The dude targeted Asian massage parlors which by definition contains many Asians.

Now he’s using the me so horny defense. And any single person who defends that is a piece of shit.

[AngryDragon 273]

2 hours ago, tantric superman said:

Actually, Dahobbs, I went apeshit on twitter attacking a couple of commentary podcast idiots for just taking this asshole at his words that it wasn't about race, and I'm waiting for a it more evidence to go after them again.

Within hours after the capitol riot, all these facebook idiots started posting pictures of Shaman Trumpster or whatever, and frankly, at the time, I was 99% sure they were wrong, but didn't want to say anything until I was absolutely sure, and that certainty came the next day.

I'm just trying to be doubly sure when I throw around racism.  So it's mostly just me feeling like it's bad juju to judge too quickly.

Well there is a witness report saying the shooter said "I'm going to kill all Asians."  So there's that. 

[tantric superman 4668]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

You can't just ignore the fact that he went out of his way to target Asian run businesses, particularly when he could have more easily found strip clubs and street corners with non-Asian sex workers.

I guess when you find those folks who are ignoring that he targeted the businesses he targeted, you should really give them a piece of your mind.

Although now that you mention "go out of his way" how do you prove that?  Do we assume that any criminal "goes out of his way" to do a crime?  Or just this guy?  Or is it distance (Woodstock, GA is 30 minutes from Atlanta.  El Paso is 9.5 hours drive from the home of the El Paso shooter.) 

[tantric superman 4668]

16 minutes ago, AngryDragon said:

Well there is a witness report saying the shooter said "I'm going to kill all Asians."  So there's that. 

That's enough for me.  Thanks.  Link? 

Because I will use it.

[AngryDragon 273]

https://www.chosun.com/international/us/2021/03/17/XSDXYLMAQZCC5JWMQ4HGRZGOG4/

It's a major paper in Korea. Just use the translate function in chrome. 

[tantric superman 4668]

8 minutes ago, AngryDragon said:

https://www.chosun.com/international/us/2021/03/17/XSDXYLMAQZCC5JWMQ4HGRZGOG4/

It's a major paper in Korea. Just use the translate function in chrome. 

I'm not seeing the witness report.  Just this:

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2021/03/18/2021031800860.html

[AngryDragon 273]

2 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I'm not seeing the witness report.  Just this:

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2021/03/18/2021031800860.html

The article I linked is in Korean. The headline says "Atlanta shooter: I'm going to kill all Asians" and has the employee quote in the article. 

[Dahobbs 18324]

3 hours ago, tantric superman said:

I guess when you find those folks who are ignoring that he targeted the businesses he targeted, you should really give them a piece of your mind.

Although now that you mention "go out of his way" how do you prove that?  Do we assume that any criminal "goes out of his way" to do a crime?  Or just this guy?  Or is it distance (Woodstock, GA is 30 minutes from Atlanta.  El Paso is 9.5 hours drive from the home of the El Paso shooter.) 

I was agreeing with you. What the fuck is your problem?

Why are you so fucking dense? He was literally driving to another fucking state to kill more people at Asian massage parlors. Why are you working so hard to ignore the obvious? I get trying to consider all the angles, and I get avoiding definitive conclusions. I don't get being a complete ass to anyone saying race might be a motive when  a guy you shoots up multiple Asian run businesses and was looking to attack more in another state before being stopped.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Dahobbs

[wildcat09 29579]

Tantric used to be a better poster. While most of y’all moved left during the Trump presidency, he seemingly inexplicably moved somewhat right. It’s weird shit.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

Saw this guy walking by my apartment this morning. My gf's dad saw him getting questioned by the cops yesterday. Wonder if we'll be seeing him on the news soon.
 

[tantric superman 4668]

7 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Tantric used to be a better poster. While most of y’all moved left during the Trump presidency, he seemingly inexplicably moved somewhat right. It’s weird shit.

Fight the power.  Time to critique the left.

I've always been a bit right of the surly left wing cabal.  But I also hold left wing critics to a higher standard. 

[tantric superman 4668]

14 hours ago, AngryDragon said:

The article I linked is in Korean. The headline says "Atlanta shooter: I'm going to kill all Asians" and has the employee quote in the article. 

Yep.  I was doing it wrong.

17, The Korea-Japan News Atlanta quoted A, an employee of the massage station "Gold Massage Spa" where the shooting occurred, saying that the suspect "would kill all Asians" at the time of the shooting. Mr. A was in the store at the time of the shooting, but reportedly avoided it and then told the nearby Office of Korea.

[Sawbonz 28222]

11 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Asian massage parlors

Is there any other kind? At least that would give a handie to a dude like him. 
 

regardless of his reasons for targeting these places, he is an evil murdering bastard. But if he says he shot those people because he has a sex addiction and is deluded into thinking it’s the fault of those sex spas (and all 3 of those places have reviews on websites that rate sex workers) why not believe him?

[Dahobbs 18324]

35 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Is there any other kind? At least that would give a handie to a dude like him. 
 

regardless of his reasons for targeting these places, he is an evil murdering bastard. But if he says he shot those people because he has a sex addiction and is deluded into thinking it’s the fault of those sex spas (and all 3 of those places have reviews on websites that rate sex workers) why not believe him?

(1) there are other types of sex businesses (2) Why believe the murder? (3) there is at least some incentive to lie about the motive. And, at any rate, it may not be explicit racism, but more like the implicit racism discussed above (e.g., over sexualization of asian women). My main point is that I don't think discussing that possibility is wrong. And I'm not saying it is THE reason why he did it. I really don't have enough information to reach a conclusion on that either way. 

[Beau Vine 55867]

Is there any other kind? At least that would give a handie to a dude like him. 
 
regardless of his reasons for targeting these places, he is an evil murdering bastard. But if he says he shot those people because he has a sex addiction and is deluded into thinking it’s the fault of those sex spas (and all 3 of those places have reviews on websites that rate sex workers) why not believe him?

Yes indeed, why not believe the murderer? Murderers are known to be among the most honest people in the world.

[Sawbonz 28222]

2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

4 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Is there any other kind? At least that would give a handie to a dude like him. 
 
regardless of his reasons for targeting these places, he is an evil murdering bastard. But if he says he shot those people because he has a sex addiction and is deluded into thinking it’s the fault of those sex spas (and all 3 of those places have reviews on websites that rate sex workers) why not believe him?

Yes indeed, why not believe the murderer? Murderers are known to be among the most honest people in the world.

Ah yes it’s so much more acceptable to murder people because they work at / frequent a sex spa vs because of their race. Clearly he’s an evil genius and I almost fell for his wiles. Thanks for setting me straight

Edited March 22, 2021 by Sawbonz

[Bullneck 19528]

7 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Saw this guy walking by my apartment this morning. My gf's dad saw him getting questioned by the cops yesterday. Wonder if we'll be seeing him on the news soon.
 

I was in a grocery store last week and some guy walked past me dressed in tactical assault gear, helmet and everything.  Except as he passed I noticed his nametag said "Acme" in black letters on dark green velcro mounted fabric.  Acme has their own troops now?

 

[NWBuck 8629]

52 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

I was in a grocery store last week and some guy walked past me dressed in tactical assault gear, helmet and everything.  Except as he passed I noticed his nametag said "Acme" in black letters on dark green velcro mounted fabric.  Acme has their own troops now?

Either that, or there's a roadrunner about to be in some serious shit.

[JimmyJames 12271]

5 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

(1) there are other types of sex businesses (2) Why believe the murder? (3) there is at least some incentive to lie about the motive. And, at any rate, it may not be explicit racism, but more like the implicit racism discussed above (e.g., over sexualization of asian women). My main point is that I don't think discussing that possibility is wrong. And I'm not saying it is THE reason why he did it. I really don't have enough information to reach a conclusion on that either way. 

I’ve dealt with the notion of implicit bias and I personally think it’s a fools errand. Most people simply will not ever admit to it. 

[Beau Vine 55867]

Ah yes it’s so much more acceptable to murder people because they work at / frequent a sex spa vs because of their race. Clearly he’s an evil genius and I almost fell for his wiles. Thanks for setting me straight

Why not believe the murderer?

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 hours ago, tantric superman said:

Fight the power.  Time to critique the left.

I've always been a bit right of the surly left wing cabal.  But I also hold left wing critics to a higher standard. 

No it’s not. Not when the right is trying to destroy democracy. This is a playbook that has happened many times over the years and we actually have an ability to stop it in its tracks.

[JimmyJames 12271]

I mean the republicans are actively admitting in open court and elsewhere they can’t win unless they suppress the vote. They aren’t trying to win votes, they want it suppressed so their minority views can have the chance of winning. It’s as plain as day and openly stated.

[tantric superman 4668]

19 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

No it’s not. Not when the right is trying to destroy democracy. This is a playbook that has happened many times over the years and we actually have an ability to stop it in its tracks.

We can stop it in its tracks by holding the Left to a higher standard both in how it honestly deals with issues and how it aggressively attacks the right.

There is nothing remotely contradictory about using aggressive tactics while holding your elected representatives to standards of honesty.  And not making stupid arguments.

The idea that attacking any business that has a disproportionate representation of a certain ethic group is based on race without proof beyond the attack is a bad argument.  Once additional proof is obtained (witness statements affirming a racial animus), it becomes a good argument.

[tantric superman 4668]

29 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I’ve dealt with the notion of implicit bias.

How did you deal with the notion? 

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, tantric superman said:

How did you deal with the notion? 

Jury selection. Tried it and it doesn’t work. People just don’t believe it applies to them and it is actually counterproductive to bring it up.

[washparkhorn 9973]

Ugly intersection.

[tantric superman 4668]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

Jury selection. Tried it and it doesn’t work. People just don’t believe it applies to them and it is actually counterproductive to bring it up.

My experience in a corporate setting is that most people admit it, and then conclude that now that they understand it, they won't allow it to alter their decisions.  The rest of the people don't have any time for it.