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Active shooter thread

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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4th&Five
4th&Five

Fuck off. You vote for this shit. Explain that to your kids. 

Pancho
Pancho

3rd leg of my move from Houston to the Bay Area, and I made it to LA.   I’m just now catching up on the news in my hotel.  I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again—I don’t have kids, but this e

royiv
royiv

WTF world are we living in when people are having a discussion about survival rates of certain rounds? People are being terrorized by gun violence and we're discussing which bullet has worse/better ch

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Satchel

Satchel 6982

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sawbonz said:

Where did I say the best we can do is shrug our shoulders when 10 people die?  Do you think there is maybe something between moving your family to another country and shrugging your shoulders? Nah you’re right it’s the one or the other

I do. Do you ? 

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Firemans4Horn

Firemans4Horn 18533

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Ah yes my pointing out the irrationality of your fear of gun violence means I’m a 2A gun nut. 


“My Irrationality” is grounded completely in statistics. You’ve brought nothing to the table. Maybe you mail a letter to the families of today’s dead to let them know it’s just a rounding error. 
 

US Leads world in mass shooters

 

 

4B094A16-75E8-4440-B4F4-CAAB520FA89A.jpeg

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29225

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Well ok, sure but the reality is more complicated than the tidy progress towards a brother tomorrow. People “who seemed stable snapping” isn’t really a thing. The mass shooting event (or suicide or homicide or kidnapping etc) isn’t really ever the first thing, it’s the terminal stage of a long process of people trying and failing to get help from a society that doesn’t give a fuck until there’s a body count. 

i agree, but unfortunately these aren't always a stopgap against gun ownership.  and the troubled person in question doesn't even need to be a gun owner, they just need access to a gun.

5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Red flag laws are a real reform that would make a real difference.  You should support them. 

i support all gun reform.  i also think there's no real need for guns at all.  i never stated my position was reasonable or rational.

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28223

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Firemans4Horn said:


“My Irrationality” is grounded completely in statistics. You’ve brought nothing to the table. Maybe you mail a letter to the families of today’s dead to let them know it’s just a rounding error. 
 

US Leads world in mass shooters

 

 

4B094A16-75E8-4440-B4F4-CAAB520FA89A.jpeg

Do a little more math and calculate the likelihood of you or your loved ones being the victim.  Relative risk is important but so is absolute risk. If the absolute risk of your family being a victim of random gun violence is really a top 2 reason for you to move from the US that is not a rational choice. By all means make it. And if we are going to mail sympathy letters to those 10 let’s go ahead and mail letters to the everyone who died unexpectedly today. Or do you not care about them?

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29225

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I used personal assaults and rapes as  examples of bad things that some people may want to defend themselves against.  It was by no means meant as the particular reason that people should purchase guns, nor was it an argument that by increasing the number of guns in America, we would decrease rapes.  Nor was it an argument that the gun increases their safety.  It is an argument that people should have the right to reach their own conclusions about the risks associated with crime and protecting against such crime.

as long as people argue that people should have the right to reach their own conclusions about the risks, then there will be unnecessary gun violence that did not prevent assaults nor rapes.

i could walk around wildly swinging a baseball bat.  baseball bats are legal, but walking around swinging them wildly could end up being quite illegal if personal property or an actual person got in the way.  at some point, common sense must prevail.

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28223

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Satchel said:

What stands between moving one’s family  and shrugging one’s shoulders? 

We should have a nationwide red flag law. Background checks should have access to all databases nationwide. There needs to be a complete overhaul of the mental health care delivery in this country, and we need to utilize involuntary holds more often. 
 

I am for getting rid of high capacity magazines and AR style rifles but I don’t know how you do that with the current SCOTUS makeup and doing something drastic like packing the court would likely cost you the house and senate and possibly the presidency 

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 53507

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

why do you need one on your person or in your car?  are you planning on getting into a gun fight?  are you a character in the wild bunch?

My pistol is in my truck on certain long drives, especially if driving in the middle of nowhere. I also take it when we go camping. I only wear it on my person when I’m hiking, since it’s mountain lion and bear country. 
shotgun has only left the house to shoot bottles/practice with the weapon. 
Hunting rifle remains unused. 
 

but I’d like the use of my firearms in more applications than you proffered. Aaaaand, if I had a bad day and decided to kill some people, the places where my guns are allowed and not allowed wouldn’t really be a concern to me now would they. 
 

I’m more of the limit mag size and maybe even caliber availability kind of guy.  Semiauto action doesn’t bother me, it’s the ability to loose 30 or 50 projectiles before having to pause.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106901

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Posted
I’m 15-20 years away from moving abroad for the rest of my life. The first sentence in this quote is the number 2 factor behind our turbofucked system of healthcare. 
 
 

I mean, yeah. Our kids have active shooter drills in preschool now. We don’t even acknowledge how damaging it is to a child to prepare them that they might be slaughtered in their class someday. 


There’s a lot to this. My daughter goes to school in another country. Most of her friends are not American. And last year, she told us that she realized she had PTSD from growing up here. And she talked with her American peers about it, and they had realized the same thing. They grew up with drills. She goes into a class, she instinctively scopes it out for cover and escape routes.

Her non-American peers don’t do that. When she tells them that’s how she thinks, they’re appalled.

This shit is fucked up. That it is seamlessly woven into our lives and identities is very, very fucked up.

Worry about whatever you want to. That doesn’t change the fact that the risk is tiny


It’s greater than my risk of being killed by a Muslim terrorist since 9/11, yet we banned Muslims, renew the patriot act, etc, and the same folks who oppose ANY gun control cheer all of that on. Random Americans being killed by random shooters is a thing. It happens. Without us doing anything wrong or unwise, we find ourselves in the crosshairs. And to address this, we have done....nothing. Zero. Not a single meaningful thing.

Where did I say the best we can do is shrug our shoulders when 10 people die?  Do you think there is maybe something between moving your family to another country and shrugging your shoulders? Nah you’re right it’s the one or the other


Should it be one or the other? Nope. But in reality, that’s EXACTLY the choice. Doing nothing and shrugging our shoulders is a path that we have been 100% committed to for decades. That’s just the obvious truth and reality, staring us in the face. You posted that to show an absurd set of extremes....but when you actually look at reality, that’s exactly the choice we have. You need to accept that we’ve done nothing meaningful about gun violence, and we never will.
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Satchel

Satchel 6982

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

We should have a nationwide red flag law. Background checks should have access to all databases nationwide. There needs to be a complete overhaul of the mental health care delivery in this country, and we need to utilize involuntary holds more often. 
 

I am for getting rid of high capacity magazines and AR style rifles but I don’t know how you do that with the current SCOTUS makeup and doing something drastic like packing the court would likely cost you the house and senate and possibly the presidency 

That’s a start. Good deal.

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28223

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

It’s greater than my risk of being killed by a Muslim terrorist since 9/11, yet we banned Muslims, renew the patriot act, etc,

And all that was stupid. We spent trillions and gave up a ton of freedom. 
 

I'm truly sorry your daughter feels that way. I have 4 teenagers and they do not live in constant fear of being shot at school or the mall or anywhere else. They aren’t afraid of Muslims or immigrants from south of the border either. They have lived through the same events as your daughter. If you choose to leave and have the means more power to you. The absolute risk of gun violence to your family is negligible 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106901

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Posted
And all that was stupid. We spent trillions and gave up a ton of freedom. 
 
I'm truly sorry your daughter feels that way. I have 4 teenagers and they do not live in constant fear of being shot at school or the mall or anywhere else. They aren’t afraid of Muslims or immigrants from south of the border either. They have lived through the same events as your daughter. If you choose to leave and have the means more power to you. The absolute risk of gun violence to your family is negligible 

Not compared to literally every other western democracy.

They don’t do active shooter drills in Italian schools.

My daughter doesn’t live in “constant fear.” But it’s ingrained into her to look at situations like a fucking soldier - where is my cover? Where’s my escape route? She and her peers are TRAINED to think that way. That is FUCKED. UP. We are FUCKED. UP.

And you know I’m right. We will do nothing. Zero. Ever. The only conclusion to reach is that we LIKE it this way, and we want this to continue. So it will.
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markstanco

markstanco 12789

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Not compared to literally every other western democracy.

They don’t do active shooter drills in Italian schools.

My daughter doesn’t live in “constant fear.” But it’s ingrained into her to look at situations like a fucking soldier - where is my cover? Where’s my escape route? She and her peers are TRAINED to think that way. That is FUCKED. UP. We are FUCKED. UP.

And you know I’m right. We will do nothing. Zero. Ever. The only conclusion to reach is that we LIKE it this way, and we want this to continue. So it will.

Do what Chicago did and ban guns. Make it a crime to own one without jumping through major hoops to own one in the city. Boom, done with crime and your daughter worrying about this. 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28223

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Not compared to literally every other western democracy.

They don’t do active shooter drills in Italian schools.

My daughter doesn’t live in “constant fear.” But it’s ingrained into her to look at situations like a fucking soldier - where is my cover? Where’s my escape route? She and her peers are TRAINED to think that way. That is FUCKED. UP. We are FUCKED. UP.

And you know I’m right. We will do nothing. Zero. Ever. The only conclusion to reach is that we LIKE it this way, and we want this to continue. So it will.

That’s not how absolute risk works. You are talking about relative risk, which as I stated above cannot be completely discounted. But given the number of these events in a population of 350MM +, even a 100 fold relative risk doesn’t move the needle for me. 

As for whether we will change, I believe we will but then I’m a glass half full guy


 

also with all my talk about how unlikely it is to get shot by a random  shooter I’m pretty much guaranteed to get blown away tomorrow so it was nice knowing y’all 

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Satchel

Satchel 6982

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, markstanco said:

Do what Chicago did and ban guns. Make it a crime to own one without jumping through major hoops to own one in the city. Boom, done with crime and your daughter worrying about this. 

Everybody knows bans like the one is Chicago are ineffective because guns are plentiful and accessible outside of the city.

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Helobious

Helobious 9821

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, markstanco said:

Do what Chicago did and ban guns. Make it a crime to own one without jumping through major hoops to own one in the city. Boom, done with crime and your daughter worrying about this. 

No one loves Chicago crime more than a conservative. Chicago’s gun laws (what’s this “ban” you speak of?) are a bit undermined by the ease of gun purchase in neighboring areas like Indiana. And for some reason I don’t think it’s a lack of weaponry for Chicago’s law abiding citizens that is responsible for their crime problem. It might have more to do with the dozens of gangs that spend all day shooting each other.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106901

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Posted
That’s not how absolute risk works. You are talking about relative risk, which as I stated above cannot be complete discounted. But given the number of these events in a population of 350MM +, even a 100 fold risk doesn’t move the needle for me. 

As far as whether we will change, I believe we will but then I’m a glass half full guy
 

What piece of evidence makes you believe that we will change? Seriously, what are you looking at?

We LIKE it this way. This is how we WANT the country to function. The fact that we’ve been confronted with this conundrum hundreds of times...and opt consistently for “naah, we’re good with this, we aren’t making any changes” is pretty determinative.

Do we live our lives cowering because someone may show up and gun us down while we’re at the store, school, church, park, wherever? No. We live our lives. But the fact that it’s a material risk, and we won’t even take a single step to keep high capacity firearms out of the hands of people who are clearly dangerous nutbars is more than a little infuriating. Then, if one of us does get shot, we better hope we have good insurance to deal with the treatment and rehab. Otherwise, tough shit. Come on, we’re pretty fucked up.
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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28223

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What piece of evidence makes you believe that we will change? Seriously, what are you looking at?

There was an election a few months back maybe you didn’t notice but the Democrats took the executive branch and the upper house of the leg and held on to the lower house. 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, Satchel said:

At some point, America is going to stop buying the dumb crap coming from the NRA.

People stopped buying their shit a long time ago.  Doesn't translate to less guns.  People like their guns for a myriad of reasons, none the which have shit to do with the fucking NRA.  They are steady declining and on the verge of self destruction and there's more new gun owners last year than who knows how long.  Enough to contribute mightily to the current ammo supply chain issues.  

@henrygandorf I didn't get time this year, but hunted about 10 properties last year, maybe few more.  I mean I'm fine with having another dozen guns to do it, but what does that solve?   Would seem more to your benefit to limit everyone to a few rifles, few shotguns, and whatever to protect the house that covers the entire gambit.  I struggle with the led flag laws, but think they could be effective.  There's at least one member on this board that likes to hunt, but lives out on a ledge, and some of their posts would likely land them  on that list.  I don't really know the right answer, but know it's political suicide to "ban guns".   Both aisles have too many constituents with a want for protection and hunting, etc.    We spend out time making it difficult to obtain shit like suppressors instead of looking at what could potentially curb events like these.  Feinsteins bill makes the social media rounds, every AR manufacturer raises their price $250, sell out, and now they have more money to expand.  Perpetuating cycle.  

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6278

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Posted

One death from gun violence is too many. We are a nation that has a great many people who care more about weapons than our fellow citizens. That is a sad state of affairs to care more about an inanimate object than human beings. I honestly have no ability to be able to process that kind of thinking. We have a good deal of soul-searching to do as a country because we should never, ever have to worry about this kind of stuff.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29225

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Posted
15 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I don't really know the right answer, but know it's political suicide to "ban guns".   Both aisles have too many constituents with a want for protection and hunting, etc. 

just to clarify, my stance on guns is 100% non-political. 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

bipartisan?!  i thought biden was coming for my guns!

LOL.  All that does is drive more money into the manufacturers hands, giving them a better leg up to fight it going forward.  If it ever came to it, I'd wager 50% of them across the nation would go into the dirt until something was reversed, immediately following the next election. 

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Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, UpperWestside said:

One death from gun violence is too many. We are a nation that has a great many people who care more about weapons than our fellow citizens. That is a sad state of affairs to care more about an inanimate object than human beings. I honestly have no ability to be able to process that kind of thinking. We have a good deal of soul-searching to do as a country because we should never, ever have to worry about this kind of stuff.

Pure bullshit.

My ownership of guns doesn't impact you.  Period.  Unless you happen to be some place/ act in a way you should not.  That's the part you fuckers ignore.

Blame forks for obesity.  Blame guns for crimes against other people.  It's idiotic.   

Edited by slorch
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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 13225

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Where did I say the best we can do is shrug our shoulders when 10 people die?  Do you think there is maybe something between moving your family to another country and shrugging your shoulders? Nah you’re right it’s the one or the other

I'm sure you're giving your thoughts and prayers as hard as you can. Keep up the good work.

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 13225

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, slorch said:

Pure bullshit.

My ownership of guns doesn't impact you.  Period.  Unless you happen to be some place/ act in a way you should not.  That's the part you fuckers ignore.

Blame forks for obesity.  Blame guns for crimes against other people.  It's idiotic.   

Blame morons for stupidity.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29225

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, slorch said:

Blame forks for obesity.  Blame guns for crimes against other people.  It's idiotic.   

people cannot be trusted with either. but obesity is still legal. try harder. 

of course i blame the people, but it should be harder to get guns. 

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Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

people cannot be trusted with either. but obesity is still legal. try harder. 

of course i blame the people, but it should be harder to get guns. 

I don't have a problem with this. I also support prosecuting the living fuck out of people who commit crimes involving guns.   It's the "nobody should have them and all this shit would disappear" mindset with which I disagree. If the obesity/ fork concept doesn't apply, then just imagine if drugs were illegal.  They'd all go away, right?

In a thread like this, it's often just a race for people to try and show how sensitive they are in dealing with obvious cases of horror.  Then come the notions of cutting off our noses to spite our face... because of political motives that have nothing to do with logic or reasonable expectations of change.

Edited by slorch
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Satchel

Satchel 6982

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, slorch said:

Pure bullshit.

My ownership of guns doesn't impact you.  Period.  Unless you happen to be some place/ act in a way you should not.  That's the part you fuckers ignore.

Blame forks for obesity.  Blame guns for crimes against other people.  It's idiotic.   

But for the AR 15 type weapon used by today's assassin, he would not have been able to mow down 10 innocent people as efficiently as he did. That's the part some of you ignore. Guns are made to kill, maim, injure and/or destroy targets. That's what happened yesterday when grocery shoppers happened to be some place a shooter was.

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staboner

staboner 5084

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

And all that was stupid. We spent trillions and gave up a ton of freedom. 
 

I'm truly sorry your daughter feels that way. I have 4 teenagers and they do not live in constant fear of being shot at school or the mall or anywhere else. They aren’t afraid of Muslims or immigrants from south of the border either. They have lived through the same events as your daughter. If you choose to leave and have the means more power to you. The absolute risk of gun violence to your family is negligible 

hopefully if brisket has learned anything from you in this exchange - its that he needs to better educate his daughter on statistics. or maybe thats Brisket that needs to do better? or both? what is your expert opinion? glad to hear your 4 daughters don't have to carry this same anxiety. thats great.

you homies be good. sorry to see this yet again. 

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