Active shooter thread

[Dark Horse 2263]

23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yep.  I thought the original "assault weapons" ban was shitty, and that was a big reason.  In terms of gun control laws (setting aside red flag laws, which sure appear like they might have been helpful in Boulder, and even waiting periods, which also might have helped, especially in conjunction with red flag laws), I think that banning of high capacity mags is the most likely to offer some help.  Every pause to change mags, especially by inexperienced shooters like this psycho, offers a chance to stop the shooter.  Limiting him to 10 rounds instead of 30 or even 20 can make a difference.

There's a shitload of daylight between "ban everything that goes bang" and "continue to do nothing."  But ONE of those extreme positions has absolutely, 100% won the day.  And it ain't "ban everything that goes bang."  We have two extreme positions, and it's not like we're even arguing about whether to move off of one of them.  Nope.  The one that has won ain't budging now, and never will.

Ah yes, but have you considered this highly trained competitive shooter that’s YouTube famous for changing magazines in 0.1 seconds? 
 

What are you going to do to stop him?

See, absolutely nothing can be done. 

[staboner 4957]

3 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

Hey, I didn't support the guy, but I do happen to be white and own guns.  Guess I'm in the potential mass murderer column just because.  

victimhood statement of the day. well done.

i thought the guy/gal may be brown (as we weren't getting names or deets on them for a while).

if i was muslim i would have an escape plan in mind. You can't stop whats coming. Willing stupidity will always beat logic. its not a fair fight. 

in the same manner that George Floyd's murder opened up eyes in that moment in time - i have been fearful for a muslim immigrant to go crazy. not saying this is it. but a few more of these and anything bigger - the America First people will out rally you guys any day of the week. 

may not be now. may not be for a few more years but its just basic logic. there is no corrective mechanism I can see to change it. and there won't be one in a country that refuses to look in the mirror with any honestly at all (see flapping butthurt in quote above for reference)

you homies be good. marching toward my no nuke friday. 

[wildcat09 29225]

20 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

If you’re responding specifically to the bolded part, then your traipsing through version of reading makes you part of the problem.   Anyone hoping it’s someone of a particular race or creed for their own political/moral outrage advantage is sick, and equally guilty.  

"People looking to make a political statement about it are as sick and bad as the mass shooter" is incredibly stupid, no matter how many time you repeat or how many different ways you say it.

[Serak The Preparer 3424]

32 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

If you’re responding specifically to the bolded part, then your traipsing through version of reading makes you part of the problem.   Anyone hoping it’s someone of a particular race or creed for their own political/moral outrage advantage is sick, and equally guilty.  

Speaking of traipsing through version of reading, the poster who first said "damn" when it was released that the shooter was not white did not do so out of political or moral outrage. Rather, @Pasken was concerned that, as a another non-white person, he/she would face increased discrimination, as has happened in past terror incidents.

I don't know if it's true, but I also know that I don't know because as a white person, I've never once felt extra scrutiny because of something a different white person has done. Frankly, I can't even imagine a scenario where that occurs. You have 10+ posts now being outraged that people want to blame white people, when in actuality it's non-white people not wanting to face increased targeting for harassment.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11806]

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

I'm not getting the logical basis for your conclusion.  Just because something hasn't been done doesn't mean that accomplishing it is necessarily more difficult.  As a practical matter, enforcing legislation to eliminate AR-15's (which I presume could be done in a constitutionally-sound way) to me seems considerably easier than what was required to put a man on the moon.

If, on the other hand, you're just saying that because there isn't sufficient motivation in Congress to enact necessary legislation, well that's not an issue of difficulty; it's an issue of will.  Had NASA and the USA not had the will to win the space race to the moon, I imagine we'd still be talking about the Russians' scientific and engineering feats.

One (going to the moon) required brainpower, reliance on science and a shit-ton of work.  The other has the infinite variable of dealing with the human psyche, which would deny even doing the former is possible because the earth is flat, and there was no moon landing, it was fake news.  Both are possible, but overcoming human stupidity and ignorance is vastly more difficult than sending men to the moon.  God out front shoulda told ya.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

White people with guns have always been problematic in this country. 

[David Dennison 18652]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

White people with guns have always been problematic in this country. 

You don't even need the guns part.

[henrygandorf 29174]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You don't even need the guns part.

or even "this country".

[Anastasis 23393]

4 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

We need both, but the first one would make a hell of a lot more difference than the second one. And progressives who pretend that we have have a healthcare crisis but not a mental health crisis when the issue of guns comes up are a little like environmentalists who pretend that we have an environmental crisis but not a sprawl problem when the issue of apartments in their neighborhood comes up. 

I look forward to having this same conversation over and over for the next ten years, just like the last. 

[atomheartbevo 89409]

20 hours ago, tantric superman said:

I think atomheartbevo nails it above, but I also think it will take "Democratic hunters" to come up with a theme related to the 2nd amendment that it "responsible gun owner" vs. "gun banner".  If Beto had been an avid hunter he would have defeated Cruz.

That being said, maybe the ship has sailed, and Dems can never win more votes than they lose by assuming the cultural mantel of responsible gun owner. 

20 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

A great disarming isn’t possible. But red flag laws and, you know, genuine concern for each other’s well being are. 

While it's not a "great disarming", we had the Assault Weapons Ban in 1994.  This was before mass shootings were truly a thing - 5 years before Columbine. 18 years before Sandy Hook.  24 years before the Parkland shooting. 

States/politicians, and the NRA attacked the AWB constantly, but never could get the courts to rule in their favor. The AWB only went away in 2004 because of sunset provisions.

If Republican politicians truly gave a shit about legal gun owners, they'd be working to cut down on mass shootings through things like red flag laws, because one of these days, there's going to be a mass shooting that will give us an AWB II, which will negatively affect all legal gun owners. And an AWB II will have 10 years of experience from the first AWB to make it even tighter and close a lot of loopholes, even more resistant to being overturned in the courts, since those writing it will have seen how the original AWB was attacked in the courts.

The fact that Republican politicians don't want to keep guns out of the hands of crazies speaks volumes.  We all saw Republicans after Sandy Hook and Parkland and other such events immediately rush out to defend the NRA, guns, etc., without doing anything, like red flag laws, to prevent another mass shooting.

It's like how Republican politicians are sooo against abortion, but if you bring up sex education, birth control, etc. in schools, they lose their shit and try to ban such talk or distribution of birth control.  Why is that?  If you're pro-life, wouldn't you want to reduce the amount of abortions by reducing the amount of pregnancies?

If you're pro-NRA/2A/guns, wouldn't you want to reduce the amount of mass shootings, which would reduce the pressure for blanket bans or restrictions that affect all legal gun owners?  

Edited March 23, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

Iconoclast Texan approves of this message.

Something just occurred to me. If Icono horn/Texan or whatever he goes by now goes even more crazy and shoots up some place is the shag/surly partially responsible? It’s not like we don’t know he’s nuts. 

[Anastasis 23393]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Something just occurred to me. If Icono horn/Texan or whatever he goes by now goes even more crazy and shoots up some place is the shag/surly partially responsible? It’s not like we don’t know he’s nuts. 

Yes. Surly and white people. Between those two we can attribute most of the responsibility. Largely overlapping circles, reflecting a good measure of self loathing.  

[workswithseed 2035]

7 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Something just occurred to me. If Icono horn/Texan or whatever he goes by now goes even more crazy and shoots up some place is the shag/surly partially responsible? It’s not like we don’t know he’s nuts. 

Yes, so you better leave and never come back, cause you could be the reason he snaps.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Yes. Surly and white people. Between those two we can attribute most of the responsibility. Largely overlapping circles, reflecting a good measure of self loathing.  

I will place most of the blame on brisket then. Even though I guess he’s Hispanic.

Or so he claims...

[wildcat09 29225]

The problem is that who would believe us if we tried to report him to someone? "Uh huh, sure, likes tailored NFL jerseys and wants to shoot immigrants, riiiiiiiiiiight. This is very concerning, let me type it right up!"

[Anastasis 23393]

4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I will place most of the blame on brisket then. Even though I guess he’s Hispanic.

Or so he claims...

Hispanic is an ethnicity.  He still gets to be part of white problem. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Hispanic is an ethnicity.  He still gets to be part of white problem. 

Good point.

[mdmost 42844]

11 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Yes, so you better leave and never come back, cause you could be the reason he snaps.

Maybe all your stupid YouTube videos radicalized him. Perhaps you too should leave. 

[cactusflinthead 27594]

How come I can buy all the bullets and only a few snot pills? Why do I need to sign for those snot pills?

Oh right. One might get you high and the others are for killing.

[Anastasis 23393]

1 minute ago, cactusflinthead said:

How come I can buy all the bullets and only a few snot pills? Why do I need to sign for those snot pills?

Oh right. One might get you high and the others are for killing.

 

The quest for social media likes rots even the brains of physicians. 

[Guest Lobo]

After a very painful and horrifying miscarriage markedly into the second trimester, my wife still had a wait a mandatory period of time for insurance (both ours and the doctor/hospital groups) for the D&C procedure...the state basically treating us like we were in there for an elective abortion after a wild night on 6th Street.  But I can walk into that same clinic with an AR-15 bought that morning with no fucking problem because I'd be saving god's unborn children, right?  

Okay, that got dark.  It was a rough time for us. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

5 minutes ago, Lobo said:

After a very painful and horrifying miscarriage markedly into the second trimester, my wife still had a wait a mandatory period of time for insurance (both ours and the doctor/hospital groups) for the D&C procedure...the state basically treating us like we were in there for an elective abortion after a wild night on 6th Street.  But I can walk into that same clinic with an AR-15 bought that morning with no fucking problem because I'd be saving god's unborn children, right?  

Okay, that got dark.  It was a rough time for us. 

Very sorry to hear about that. That is very tough to go through.

[atomheartbevo 89409]

31 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Something just occurred to me. If Icono horn/Texan or whatever he goes by now goes even more crazy and shoots up some place is the shag/surly partially responsible? It’s not like we don’t know he’s nuts. 

21 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The problem is that who would believe us if we tried to report him to someone? "Uh huh, sure, likes tailored NFL jerseys and wants to shoot immigrants, riiiiiiiiiiight. This is very concerning, let me type it right up!"

Remember the Surly poster who was a tow truck driver, regaling us with tales of what is and is not allowed when it comes to posted towing signs.  And he was also tossing large rocks off of highway overpasses.

And then there's fitlump.

[workswithseed 2035]

15 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Maybe all your stupid YouTube videos radicalized him. Perhaps you too should leave. 

No one watches them as I'm told, so probably not.

[Sawbonz 27398]

19 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

How come I can buy all the bullets and only a few snot pills? Why do I need to sign for those snot pills?

Oh right. One might get you high and the others are for killing.

Or she could use the GoodRx app and pay $13 out of her own pocket immediately 

[Nivek 16852]

5 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

So you understand BAR's and Woodmasters were around decades before "AR-15 class" weapons?  And they are deer hunting rifles.  Back when mass shootings didn't exist, I guess?  

Also, everyone on this board should be VERY fucking aware what damage can be done in mass quantities with a bolt action rifle.  

IIRC, Clyde (of Bonnie and Clyde fame) used BAR's stolen from the US Military to shoot out the engines of the authorities.   Gangsters adopted the Thompson SMG before the US Military did because of its ability to throw suppressing fire, low recoil (it is fucking easy to shoot at full auto, despite what TV says), and reasonably good accuracy.   

Firearms that were used by notorious gangsters to out gun the police is hardly making your case.    

I know that republicans and their like minded ilk tend to create strawman about bubble tea drinking lefties scared of guns and don't know shit about them, but that is simply a fantasy and not reflective of reality.   

[workswithseed 2035]

5 minutes ago, Nivek said:

IIRC, Clyde (of Bonnie and Clyde fame) used BAR's stolen from the US Military to shoot out the engines of the authorities.   Gangsters adopted the Thompson SMG before the US Military did because of its ability to throw suppressing fire, low recoil (it is fucking easy to shoot at full auto, despite what TV says), and reasonably good accuracy.   

Firearms that were used by notorious gangsters to out gun the police is hardly making your case.    

I know that republicans and their like minded ilk tend to create strawman about bubble tea drinking lefties scared of guns and don't know shit about them, but that is simply a fantasy and not reflective of reality.   

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/firing-ar-15-horrifying-dangerous-loud-article-1.2673201

It felt to me like a bazooka — and sounded like a cannon.

[B00M 6280]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

or even "this country".

Or even "white"

[Anastasis 23393]

31 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Or she could use the GoodRx app and pay $13 out of her own pocket immediately 

But how could a physician know how to refill her birth control?

[Sawbonz 27398]

Just now, Anastasis said:

But how could a physician know how to refill her birth control?

It’s obvious who the smart one in that family is 

And cactus is right with his analogy. It’s ridiculous that the government keeps track of how many sudafed tablets you buy but not how many bullets

[workswithseed 2035]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

It’s obvious who the smart one in that family is 

And cactus is right with his analogy. It’s ridiculous that the government keeps track of how many sudafed tablets you buy but not how many bullets

I think I'm gonna buy a reloader.

[Guest Lobo]

Here's how I know we may be reaching a new chapter in the American Gun Violence conversation-----7 mass shootings in the United States in the last ~10 days.  

And we don't have several consecutive pages devoted to people showing off how much they know about weapons types.  Usually, this things devolve immediately into dozens of posters correcting media reports of weapons type and talking about what they own, over and over again serving zero purpose.  And then maybe some mental health peppered in.  But this week's conversation has shifted to motive, race of shooters, race of victims, day of purchases being somewhat questionable, etc.  I'm not saying these are great things to be debating "big picture"...but in a twisted sense...it's actually progress.  

I still come down, despite being a law abiding gun advocate, as simply believing too many stupid people have too much access to too many deadly weapons.  That's it.  Full stop. 

I don't live in fear that these stupid people are going to shoot me and my family dead.  But then, I don't think all the stupid drivers out there are gonna kill me with their car either.  I just don't like the idea of stupid people having dangerous shit out there, even if they're never going to cross paths with me.  I don't like stupid countries with nuclear warheads.  I don't like stupid actors with political opinions.  I don't like stupid politicians controlling my water and electricity.  I don't like stupid teachers in classrooms with children.  I don't like stupid pastors telling me about God's plan for me.  I don't like stupid people getting to vote.  I don't like stupid people owning guns.  I don't like stupid people on the highway with me.  I don't like stupid people having access to social media.  I don't like stupid people on my airline flights.  I don't like stupid people on line with me at the store.  I don't like stupid people getting to transmit Covid-19.  I've said it before, there was a long period in human history when the stupid people knew their place.  They put their heads down, worked hard, had families, enjoyed life, and died quietly.  But somebody musta said something a few years ago, because they're all out in full force and they want a taste of everything...especially guns. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Lobo

[LW Goatman 1117]

2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

or even "this country".

Or even white.

[Anastasis 23393]

13 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

It’s obvious who the smart one in that family is

Don’t confuse the quest for Twitter likes with smarts. It was well formulated. Hitting on two totally distinct issues, blurring accuracy of the factual situation as well as terminology but ultimately most people won’t notice. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Anastasis

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

47 minutes ago, Nivek said:

IIRC, Clyde (of Bonnie and Clyde fame) used BAR's stolen from the US Military to shoot out the engines of the authorities.   Gangsters adopted the Thompson SMG before the US Military did because of its ability to throw suppressing fire, low recoil (it is fucking easy to shoot at full auto, despite what TV says), and reasonably good accuracy.   

Firearms that were used by notorious gangsters to out gun the police is hardly making your case.    

I know that republicans and their like minded ilk tend to create strawman about bubble tea drinking lefties scared of guns and don't know shit about them, but that is simply a fantasy and not reflective of reality.   

Different BAR.

These are both BARs. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26277]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

I look forward to having this same conversation over and over for the next ten years, just like the last. 

I’m hoping for a better world, but arming for a worse one. 

[B00M 6280]

10 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I've said it before, there was a long period in human history when the stupid people knew their place.  They put their heads down, worked hard, had families, enjoyed life, and died quietly.  

You calling for a return to feudalism? 

 

[ndawg 1242]

5 minutes ago, B00M said:

You calling for a return to feudalism? 

 

No, but the stupid people are.

[Guest Lobo]

3 minutes ago, B00M said:

You calling for a return to feudalism? 

 

That seems a tad extreme, but I am willing to learn.  I do begin each semester at McCombs finance lectures with a disclaimer, "We're going to be discussing Venture Capital today and in my next lecture visit.  If the word 'Capital' reminds you of the word 'Capitalism', and you get triggered...my apologies.  I'm here to coach up you and your team before you do your Venture Capital competition pitches where real business connections and real prize money can be had.  The day comes when they ask me to judge a Venture Socialism competition, I'll happily do it.  But for the 137th straight year, that's not an option."  Never got one complaint, only a waiting list for my office hours.

[Bozo_Casanova 26277]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

While it's not a "great disarming", we had the Assault Weapons Ban in 1994.  This was before mass shootings were truly a thing - 5 years before Columbine. 18 years before Sandy Hook.  24 years before the Parkland shooting. 

States/politicians, and the NRA attacked the AWB constantly, but never could get the courts to rule in their favor. The AWB only went away in 2004 because of sunset provisions.

If Republican politicians truly gave a shit about legal gun owners, they'd be working to cut down on mass shootings through things like red flag laws, because one of these days, there's going to be a mass shooting that will give us an AWB II, which will negatively affect all legal gun owners. And an AWB II will have 10 years of experience from the first AWB to make it even tighter and close a lot of loopholes, even more resistant to being overturned in the courts, since those writing it will have seen how the original AWB was attacked in the courts.

The fact that Republican politicians don't want to keep guns out of the hands of crazies speaks volumes.  We all saw Republicans after Sandy Hook and Parkland and other such events immediately rush out to defend the NRA, guns, etc., without doing anything, like red flag laws, to prevent another mass shooting.

It's like how Republican politicians are sooo against abortion, but if you bring up sex education, birth control, etc. in schools, they lose their shit and try to ban such talk or distribution of birth control.  Why is that?  If you're pro-life, wouldn't you want to reduce the amount of abortions by reducing the amount of pregnancies?

If you're pro-NRA/2A/guns, wouldn't you want to reduce the amount of mass shootings, which would reduce the pressure for blanket bans or restrictions that affect all legal gun owners?  

Agree with all this, but two things:

1) The AWB didn’t disarm anybody or get any guns off the street. I know you know that, I’m just pointing out that it’s not clear that the AWB accomplished much other than driving a black/grey market. And guns like the Mini-14 was specifically exempted, despite literally being the gun from the A-Team. 

2) context is important - the AWB wouldn’t have passed without the crack epidemic and the spectre of criminals armed with MAC-10’s.

[Neonmoon 38127]

8 minutes ago, B00M said:

You calling for a return to feudalism? 

 

New boss. Same as the old boss. 

[Hank Kingsley 20678]

23 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I don't live in fear that these stupid people are going to shoot me and my family dead.  But then, I don't think all the stupid drivers out there are gonna kill me with their car either.  

I hate the gun/car analogy. 99.99% of the time, car fatalities are accidents. There is not actual intent to kill someone. 

No mass shooting has been an accident. 

[Sawbonz 27398]

30 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I think I'm gonna buy a reloader.

[Satchel 6908]

1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

How come I can buy all the bullets and only a few snot pills? Why do I need to sign for those snot pills?

Oh right. One might get you high and the others are for killing.

While there is no limit to the number of guns you can purchase, a limit does apply to the number of snot pills you can buy in a 12 month period.

[markstanco 12504]

No one loves Chicago crime more than a conservative.

And liberals hate that Chicago gun laws don't work like they thought it would.

All they did was make it hard for middle class john doe to get a gun. Good job Chicago.

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, I wasn't equating them from the intent/malice aforethought/results angle.  More of the "you can't live in fear of mass shootings because the odds are so low"...which I agree with.  Same reason I don't fear driving every day.  But too many stupid people have cars and too many stupid people have guns and it just makes the world a more dangerous place.  No reason to hunker down at home in fear.  But we have to start acknowledging that we allow stupid people to freely operate within our country and maybe that's no longer a good idea.  Look what's happened the last 5-6 years.  They got inspired somehow and they're sure as shit not going away. 

You can legally and responsibly drive and own a gun.  And there's no reason to live in fear of any of those things.  Just like Covid-19, this whole "You can't stay inside all your life, the country needs to be open and free."  Yeah, I get that.  And I agree.  But too many dumb people fucked around and now we're still a few months from normalcy when we could have curbed the shit outta this thing.  #1 threat to life as we know it---Empowered Stupidity.  

[Pato del Muerto 52340]

1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

How come I can buy all the bullets and only a few snot pills? Why do I need to sign for those snot pills?

Oh right. One might get you high and the others are for killing.

If she was buying her guns using insurance, I bet the insurance company  would have some rules as well. 
 

if she was paying full price out of pocket for her meds, I bet she could get them whenever she pleased (depending on drug class)

so I don’t think she did a very good job of making her point with that tweet. 

[Hank Kingsley 20678]

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, I wasn't equating them from the intent/malice aforethought/results angle.  More of the "you can't live in fear of mass shootings because the odds are so low"...which I agree with.  Same reason I don't fear driving every day.  But too many stupid people have cars and too many stupid people have guns and it just makes the world a more dangerous place.  No reason to hunker down at home in fear. 

Children do active shooter drills at school. The fear has been forcibly learned due to the lack of gun control. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

They also learn about the importance of seatbelts in school. 

[Hank Kingsley 20678]

Just now, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

They also learn about the importance of seatbelts in school. 

Do seat belts give people nightmares