Active shooter thread

[Judge Roybeanbag 11820]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Little early to be on the sauce beanbag. 

@Guadaloopy, perhaps getting a little more specific would be helpful.  What specific short term restrictions do you see as necessary, and what would be the specific plan and timing for removing those restrictions.

Eh whatever.  40% of the country is permanently on the sauce, and I'm getting a little beyond forgiving them for it.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

50 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Interesting thread
 

I wonder what happened in 2008 that made everyone gun crazy

[GRHorn 105]

Don’t shoot the messenger 

Edited March 24, 2021 by GRHorn

[Don Johnson 4755]

I own a shotgun and a rifle.  I'm fully on board with more restrictions.  But its laughable to think that we would take temporary measures - see improvement - and then gradually rescind those measures.  There would be a massive push to make the measures permanent.  

 

[fattyflattie 4638]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I wonder what happened in 2008 that made everyone gun crazy

Well, 2005 was the first spike he speaks to, but don’t let that little bit of racist projecting get away from you, comrade.  
 

Also, things I learned from that ignorant thread he wrote. “AR” seems to be a caliber to him; he might want to take a look into that.  “Ugly Glocks” (while I don’t disagree they are ugly) are “people killers” pocket edition lol111!1    But I’ve got guns!!! 6 of them.  I love them so much my family has never touched one. And they are from 1908!!   Very cool story, great read. 

[Don Johnson 4755]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I wonder what happened in 2008 that made everyone gun crazy

You had a candidate who described people as bitter and clinging to their guns?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33887]

1 hour ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

There are currently 2 parties in this country.  One wants to take away your right to vote, the other wants to discuss ways to improve things.  The choice between the two is pretty fucking obvious, and if you land in the former party, well, god help you because me and my AR-15 that I might buy tomorrow won't help you.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33887]

8 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

You had a candidate who described people as bitter and clinging to their guns?

turns out he was right. so was the 'deplorable' lady

[henrygandorf 29194]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Republican politicians who refuse to consider those things are not dumb. They are appealing to a very small minority of gun owners who refuse to budge a single inch - maybe because they are not so law-abiding, or are afraid a red flag law would be used against them, who knows. Or maybe those gun owners are benefitting financially from the current system.  But the sleazier Republican politicians also know that as long as we have these kinds of events, they can make this a cheap and easy, and very polarizing, campaign issue to use against anybody with a (D) against their name, and they need all of the polarizing campaign issues they can muster to help them retain power.

this right here.

republican politicians don't want to appease people - gun nuts or not.  they want to do nothing, because they want the issue.  as long as they have the issue, it will help win them elections.

i said this back in 2017 and was proven ~wrong, that trump didn't want the wall, he wanted the issue.  if the wall got built, he wouldn't have anything to talk about.  so for 2 years he yelled and screamed, and then the shutdown happened, and then money got diverted, then he built a few feet or whatever.  a smart politician would've left it unbuilt for at least 4 years and campaigned on it in 2020.

trump was not a smart politician, but there are some over there who know exactly what they're doing.  they know that with every mass shooting, they can fundraise off the reaction.  you can't pass good faith common sense gun laws when one side has zero interest in good faith or common sense.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11820]

8 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

turns out he was right. so was the 'deplorable' lady

From Fox News 

Quote

Alissa had bought an AR-15-style rifle on March 16, six days before 10 people, including a police officer, were gunned down Monday at a King Soopers grocery in Boulder, according to an arrest affidavit. It was not immediately known where the suspect purchased the weapon.

 

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11820]

21 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Well, 2005 was the first spike he speaks to, but don’t let that little bit of racist projecting get away from you, comrade.  
 

Also, things I learned from that ignorant thread he wrote. “AR” seems to be a caliber to him; he might want to take a look into that.  “Ugly Glocks” (while I don’t disagree they are ugly) are “people killers” pocket edition lol111!1    But I’ve got guns!!! 6 of them.  I love them so much my family has never touched one. And they are from 1908!!   Very cool story, great read. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

19 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

AR” seems to be a caliber to him; he might want to take a look into that.  

“AR-15” is much easier to say than “high velocity ammunition fed, high capacity magazine compatible semiautomatic rifle.”

[Longhorn_Fan68 33887]

[henrygandorf 29194]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

“AR-15” is much easier to say than “high velocity ammunition fed, high capacity magazine compatible semiautomatic rifle.”

people online love being super literal when it suits their interests.

[fattyflattie 4638]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

“AR-15” is much easier to say than “high velocity ammunition fed, high capacity magazine compatible semiautomatic rifle.”

Yeah, but it comes in several variants like AR10, which is an extremely capable hunting rifle.  His spewing said they are worse than paper cutting than a .22, and not any good for deer, antelope, and elk.  Which is pretty true for the 5.56, and patently false for another 15 rounds chambered in the AR platform.  So basically, another guy who inherited his dads guns, doesn't use them (which is fine), and wants to preach.  To that I say he can get educated, or get fucked.  Either way, using his platform to look ignorant is a poor move, but all bout dem clicks doe. 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

I own a shotgun and a rifle.  I'm fully on board with more restrictions.  But its laughable to think that we would take temporary measures - see improvement - and then gradually rescind those measures.  There would be a massive push to make the measures permanent.  

 

Trust me...just the tip...LOL.

 

 

Thruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[staboner 4984]

mass shooting events are just amazing to witness on these threads. if we could somehow take this explosion of energy and turn it into one inch of progress people would be fucking in the streets. oh well. 

you homies be good today. and if you have a bad day please don't go and shoot anyone

[GRHorn 105]

50 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

You had a candidate who described people as bitter and clinging to their guns?

Wait, is this the same guy that has spoken favorably of Australia’s policy?

[henrygandorf 29194]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/news/breaking-man-took-5-guns-body-armor-into-atlantic-station-publix-cops-say/44Y6FBBM4FDVDJQABYQTBOADBU/%3FoutputType%3Damp
 

slorch?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

32 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah, but it comes in several variants like AR10, which is an extremely capable hunting rifle.  His spewing said they are worse than paper cutting than a .22, and not any good for deer, antelope, and elk.  Which is pretty true for the 5.56, and patently false for another 15 rounds chambered in the AR platform.  So basically, another guy who inherited his dads guns, doesn't use them (which is fine), and wants to preach.  To that I say he can get educated, or get fucked.  Either way, using his platform to look ignorant is a poor move, but all bout dem clicks doe. 

M60 machine guns make great deer hunting rifles too but are they worth the cost of making them over the counter legal like the AR-10?
 

Or are there enough other great deer rifles to make the AR-10 as illegal as the M60? 
 

And I think that’s the point here.  

[Guadaloopy 11012]

I think some reasonable emergency measures are rescinding open carry, rescinding most (if not all) CCW, and requiring all weapons in transit to be in locked containers - basically, no visible or easily accessible guns in public.  If you are found with an accessible weapon in public spaces, you get massively fined and have your weapon confiscated.  
 

You want to hunt, you do it on private land or in designated public spaces.  Outside of those spaces, your gun stays locked up.  
 

You want to target shoot?  Do it on private land or at private/public ranges.  Outside of those spaces, your  gun stays locked up.  
 

You want to create a fortress home and arm it to the teeth?  Go for it.  But keep it on your property.  
 

No one should have to worry about coming across private firearms in public spaces.

 

For the record, I am not an anti-gun crusader.   I was a registered Republican until May 2016. 
I own two firearms.  One is a Beretta 92FS that I purchased so I could improve my proficiency with the M9 that I carried professionally.  One is a CZ Drake over/under 12g that I shoot trap with on most weekends at a local club.  They stay locked in a safe/travel case 100% of the time that I am not actively using them at the range or cleaning them.   If someone breaks in to the house with murder in their heart, well, then it’s just my time to go.  

Edited March 24, 2021 by Guadaloopy

[ndawg 1242]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, problem with that is that once the govern restricts freedoms they rarely ever return.  

What examples do you have in mind? The first one that comes to my head is alcohol prohibition, which did return.

[GRHorn 105]

20 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

I think some reasonable emergency measures are rescinding open carry, rescinding most (if not all) CCW, and requiring all weapons in transit to be in locked containers - basically, no visible or easily accessible guns in public.  If you are found with an accessible weapon in public spaces, you get massively fined and have your weapon confiscated.  
 

You want to hunt, you do it on private land or in designated public spaces.  Outside of those spaces, your gun stays locked up.  
 

You want to target shoot?  Do it on private land or at private/public ranges.  Outside of those spaces, your  gun stays locked up.  
 

You want to create a fortress home and arm it to the teeth?  Go for it.  But keep it on your property.  
 

No one should have to worry about coming across private firearms in public spaces.

 

For the record, I am not an anti-gun crusader.   I was a registered Republican until May 2016. 
I own two firearms.  One is a Beretta 92FS that I purchased so I could improve my proficiency with the M9 that I carried professionally.  One is a CZ Drake over/under 12g that I shoot trap with on most weekends at a local club.  They stay locked in a safe/travel case 100% of the time that I am not actively using them at the range or cleaning them.   If someone breaks in to the house with murder in their heart, well, then it’s just my time to go.  

What’s the emergency?

[Llano Estacado 1257]

M60 machine guns make great deer hunting rifles too but are they worth the cost of making them over the counter legal like the AR-10?
 
Or are there enough other great deer rifles to make the AR-10 as illegal as the M60? 
 
And I think that’s the point here.  

2A wasn’t ratified to protect citizens ability to keep and bear moderately sized/priced and adequate hunting weapons.

Brown Bess, American long rifle, Colt revolvers, Winchester repeaters, 1903, 1911, M1 Garand, etc, etc. All effective “weapons of war” designed to repeatedly, accurately, and effectively send a projectile down range at a human target as quick as possible. That’s the point, as uncomfortable as it makes some people in 2021.

My Grandpa wasn’t shooting rabbits or dillas with an AR platform because he didn’t know WTF the AR platform was. He was packing an M1 and 1911 in the woods, crazy old man! Why use a weapon of war to hunt when the 1903 Springfield is perfectly capable of bringing in a deer or punching paper?!?

Lulz “and ugly glocks”. Those pistols were designed to kill people too! Did you know that?...okay? As opposed to a movie prop pistol, airsoft pistol, or track starting gun?

[Guadaloopy 11012]

I’ll refer you back to my earlier “slow-moving riot” post.  That’s the starting point for me.  If you disagree with that premise, then there is no emergency.  If you do agree with the premise, the emergency is self-evident.  

[GRHorn 105]

12 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

I’ll refer you back to my earlier “slow-moving riot” post.  That’s the starting point for me.  If you disagree with that premise, then there is no emergency.  If you do agree with the premise, the emergency is self-evident.  

Ok just read it. In a riot, the crowd’s size and proximity to each other cause the escalation you’re describing. Isolated shootings don’t have that effect. 
 

That argument is essentially trying to invent a new mental framework from scratch that justifies removing people’s rights. Rights that Gladwell probably doesn’t believe are important. He might not even think they’re valid. It’s quite creative. I’ll give him that. 

[Anastasis 23481]

53 minutes ago, ndawg said:

What examples do you have in mind? The first one that comes to my head is alcohol prohibition, which did return.

We can start with the post 9/11 examples this century. 

But again, to focus on the topic at hand, what specific short term restrictions of gun rights do you see as necessary, and what would be the specific plan and timing for removing those restrictions.  What safeguards do you propose to ensure that the restriction of Constitutional rights does not fall victim to longer term political inertia.  I am all ears on this one if someone can articulate the what's and how's of it.   

[Anastasis 23481]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

M60 machine guns make great deer hunting rifles

You are an unserious person. 

[hayden_horn 11365]

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

We can start with the post 9/11 examples this century. 

But again, to focus on the topic at hand, what specific short term restrictions of gun rights do you see as necessary, and what would be the specific plan and timing for removing those restrictions.  What safeguards do you propose to ensure that the restriction of Constitutional rights does not fall victim to longer term political inertia.  I am all ears on this one if someone can articulate the what's and how's of it.   

one nutbar tries to light his shoes on fire, now we all gotta take our shoes off to go through security. nutbar after nutbar mows down multiple people with firearms, let's do nothing.

there's ample room in between these two extremes for reasonable reform for guns.

[Sawbonz 27584]

4 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Wow strong take. I like the vigor. I don't fully disagree, though I do think there is room for improvement in your take.

Know how I know you’ve never lived with or cared for a paranoid schizophrenic?

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, problem with that is that once the govern restricts freedoms they rarely ever return.  

Well we have stupid ass open carry in Texas now when we used to not too for a century or or so, so maybe when the government restricts freedoms such as banning open carry it’s because maybe it’s a good idea sometimes and things can go back and forth.  

[Sawbonz 27584]

9 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Is he really nuts, or is he just mind-numbingly stupid?

Yes

[Anastasis 23481]

1 hour ago, Guadaloopy said:

I think some reasonable emergency measures are rescinding open carry, rescinding most (if not all) CCW, and requiring all weapons in transit to be in locked containers - basically, no visible or easily accessible guns in public.  If you are found with an accessible weapon in public spaces, you get massively fined and have your weapon confiscated.  
 

You want to hunt, you do it on private land or in designated public spaces.  Outside of those spaces, your gun stays locked up.  
 

You want to target shoot?  Do it on private land or at private/public ranges.  Outside of those spaces, your  gun stays locked up.  
 

You want to create a fortress home and arm it to the teeth?  Go for it.  But keep it on your property.  
 

No one should have to worry about coming across private firearms in public spaces.

 

For the record, I am not an anti-gun crusader.   I was a registered Republican until May 2016. 
I own two firearms.  One is a Beretta 92FS that I purchased so I could improve my proficiency with the M9 that I carried professionally.  One is a CZ Drake over/under 12g that I shoot trap with on most weekends at a local club.  They stay locked in a safe/travel case 100% of the time that I am not actively using them at the range or cleaning them.   If someone breaks in to the house with murder in their heart, well, then it’s just my time to go.  

I don't think that any of these measures will actually reduce in a meaningful way gun violence or mass shootings. They seem like largely superficial measures focused on transit with no clear link to gun violence. Guns in transit are a very small risk wrt mass shootings.  To the extent transit is an issue, it is wrt stolen firearms. Conceal carry or open carry isn't really a problem wrt to the types of mass gun violence we are discussing here either.  I don't do either, and have never felt the urge to publicly open carry.  I find it generally indicative of lower class. I do travel with my handgun in my truck from time to time, generally when travelling to the lease as there have been some sketchy issues with some trespassers and very aggressive dogs running freely across the land.

 

I am open to meaningful measures that will reduce mass shootings while balancing our 2nd amendment rights. Mandating locking gun cases for people driving to rural areas to fill the freezer doesn't really do that though.  

[Anastasis 23481]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Well we have stupid ass open carry in Texas now when we used to not too for a century or or so, so maybe when the government restricts freedoms such as banning open carry it’s because maybe it’s a good idea sometimes and things can go back and forth.  

Outside of extremely rare instances in mostly rural settings (like maybe a handful in the last 5 years) I just don't see a lot of people open carrying. As I said, I don't open carry and think it largely unnecessary, but it seems like focusing on such things is one of the problems with meaningful gun reform.  It just isn't the real issue here.  

[Anastasis 23481]

4 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Sad to say but the reason we aren’t making progress in mental health is there is no  money in it. This is going to some rub people the wrong way but there is a strong argument to be made that all patients with paranoid schizophrenia and many of those with schizoaffective disorder should be confined to secured facilities. They tend to be violent (not always guns) towards family members and strangers, and meds have poor efficacy for controlling their delusions. Plus with all the side effects there is very low compliance with taking them, so what limited effect they may have is further diminished. 
 

At a minimum people with these diagnoses and bipolar IMO should be banned at the federal level from owning guns. 

People don't like to talk about this shit, and it's definitely a complex issue that requires some measure, but deinstitutionalization of the severely mentally ill behind the false cloak of effective pharmacotherapy is something the cuts across a number of our current societal problems.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Outside of extremely rare instances in mostly rural settings (like maybe a handful in the last 5 years) I just don't see a lot of people open carrying. As I said, I don't open carry and think it largely unnecessary, but it seems like focusing on such things is one of the problems with meaningful gun reform.  It just isn't the real issue here.  

I rarely see it as well.

The problem with open carry though is some dude can walk around downtown with a machine gun and nobody knows whether or not he’s about to kill a bunch of people or he just has a really tiny dick, or both. It’s beyond stupid and is just an example of how unserious our state “leaders” are about the gun issue or really any issue in general. They are a complete joke incapable of solving anything.

[Sawbonz 27584]

How about this:

 

$100 a year per gun federal firearm license 

One gun per > 21 yo per household is exempt

failure to pay fee = forfeiture. If not brought current after 6 months forfeiture becomes permanent 

 

25% tax on all ammo except birdshot and .22 

 

all proceeds go to gun violence prevention and mental health initiatives 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33887]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

How about this:

 

$100 a year per gun federal firearm license 

One gun per > 21 yo per household is exempt

failure to pay fee = forfeiture. If not brought current after 6 months forfeiture becomes permanent 

 

25% tax on all ammo except birdshot and .22 

 

all proceeds go to gun violence prevention and mental health initiatives 

how much is your newsletter?

[workswithseed 2110]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

How about this:

 

$100 a year per gun federal firearm license 

One gun per > 21 yo per household is exempt

failure to pay fee = forfeiture. If not brought current after 6 months forfeiture becomes permanent 

 

25% tax on all ammo except birdshot and .22 

 

all proceeds go to gun violence prevention and mental health initiatives 

More people are killed by .22 than any other round.

[Sawbonz 27584]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

More people are killed by .22 than any other round.

In mass shootings?

[workswithseed 2110]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

In mass shootings?

I don't know about mass shootings, but VT shooter had both 9 mil and .22 on hand.

[Sawbonz 27584]

Just now, workswithseed said:

I don't know about mass shootings, but VT shooter had both 9 mil and .22 on hand.

Do you have a link to number fatalities broken down by caliber? 
 

You have a much greater chance of surviving a gsw from a .22 a larger caliber

[GRHorn 105]

16 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

How about this:

 

$100 a year per gun federal firearm license 

One gun per > 21 yo per household is exempt

failure to pay fee = forfeiture. If not brought current after 6 months forfeiture becomes permanent 

 

25% tax on all ammo except birdshot and .22 

 

all proceeds go to gun violence prevention and mental health initiatives 

I’m not very smart but this sounds analogous to a poll tax. 

[Handcruser 2805]

How about this:
 
$100 a year per gun federal firearm license 
One gun per > 21 yo per household is exempt
failure to pay fee = forfeiture. If not brought current after 6 months forfeiture becomes permanent 
 
25% tax on all ammo except birdshot and .22 
 
all proceeds go to gun violence prevention and mental health initiatives 

Fuck that.

[Sawbonz 27584]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

I’m not very smart but this sounds analogous to a poll tax. 

How so

[JimmyJames 12271]

11 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

In mass shootings?

It’s a little known fact that the Vegas shooter used a .22.

That dude could shoot.

[Anastasis 23481]

2 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

Fuck that.

Yeah, that's ridiculous. 

We still aren't getting to the root cause issues here.  Taxing gun collectors and people putting holes in paper isn't going to solve the real problem. 

[Handcruser 2805]

I think some reasonable emergency measures are rescinding open carry, rescinding most (if not all) CCW, and requiring all weapons in transit to be in locked containers - basically, no visible or easily accessible guns in public.  If you are found with an accessible weapon in public spaces, you get massively fined and have your weapon confiscated.  
 
You want to hunt, you do it on private land or in designated public spaces.  Outside of those spaces, your gun stays locked up.  
 
You want to target shoot?  Do it on private land or at private/public ranges.  Outside of those spaces, your  gun stays locked up.  
 
You want to create a fortress home and arm it to the teeth?  Go for it.  But keep it on your property.  
 
No one should have to worry about coming across private firearms in public spaces.
 
For the record, I am not an anti-gun crusader.   I was a registered Republican until May 2016. 
I own two firearms.  One is a Beretta 92FS that I purchased so I could improve my proficiency with the M9 that I carried professionally.  One is a CZ Drake over/under 12g that I shoot trap with on most weekends at a local club.  They stay locked in a safe/travel case 100% of the time that I am not actively using them at the range or cleaning them.   If someone breaks in to the house with murder in their heart, well, then it’s just my time to go.  

Fuck all that too

[JimmyJames 12271]

5 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

I’m not very smart but this sounds analogous to a poll tax. 

Just should have said: I’m not very smart. And left it at that.

[Anastasis 23481]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

It’s a little known fact that the Vegas shooter used a .22.

That dude could shoot.

Public policy should always be based on outlier end of the distribution situations. I read that somewhere.