Active shooter thread

[workswithseed 2109]

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

does the report say from what people were using guns to defend themselves?

cdc is your source site, but that isn't the source of the stat, which is the national academies. i'd like to read that report, but it costs $30. i'd imagine that they come to some conclusions you might not like given the description of the report, but i don't want to pay in time or money to find out. 

you know why?

because it won't matter to you. you only see what you want to see.

Or you have nothing, but as long as you say I don't care, that's good enough for you.

[hayden_horn 11365]

10 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Or you have nothing, but as long as you say I don't care, that's good enough for you.

i know you don't care, as i've engaged you in good faith on any number of issues, and you never, ever concede an obvious point. 

but whatever, here you go:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/

Quote

1-3. Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense

We use epidemiological theory to explain why the “false positive” problem for rare events can lead to large overestimates of the incidence of rare diseases or rare phenomena such as self-defense gun use.  We then try to validate the claims of many millions of annual self-defense uses against available evidence.  We find that the claim of many millions of annual self-defense gun uses by American citizens is invalid.

Hemenway, David.  Survey research and self-defense gun use: An explanation of extreme overestimates.  Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology.  1997; 87:1430-1445.

Hemenway, David.  The myth of millions of annual self-defense gun uses: A case study of survey overestimates of rare events.  Chance (American Statistical Association).  1997; 10:6-10.

Cook, Philip J; Ludwig, Jens; Hemenway, David.  The gun debate’s new mythical number: How many defensive uses per year?  Journal of Policy Analysis and Management.  1997; 16:463-469.

Quote

4. Most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses in escalating arguments, and are both socially undesirable and illegal

We analyzed data from two national random-digit-dial surveys conducted under the auspices of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center.  Criminal court judges who read the self-reported accounts of the purported self-defense gun use rated a majority as being illegal, even assuming that the respondent had a permit to own and to carry a gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly from his own perspective.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah.  Gun use in the United States: Results from two national surveys.  Injury Prevention.  2000; 6:263-267.

Quote

5. Firearms are used far more often to intimidate than in self-defense

Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey conducted under the direction of the Harvard Injury Control Center, we examined the extent and nature of offensive gun use.  We found that firearms are used far more often to frighten and intimidate than they are used in self-defense.  All reported cases of criminal gun use, as well as many of the so-called self-defense gun uses, appear to be socially undesirable.

Hemenway, David; Azrael, Deborah.  The relative frequency of offensive and defensive gun use: Results of a national survey.  Violence and Victims.  2000; 15:257-272.

Quote

6. Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates than to thwart crime

Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey conducted under the direction of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, we investigated how and when guns are used in the home.  We found that guns in the home are used more often to frighten intimates than to thwart crime; other weapons are far more commonly used against intruders than are guns.

Azrael, Deborah R; Hemenway, David.  In the safety of your own home: Results from a national survey of gun use at home.  Social Science and Medicine.  2000; 50:285-91.

Quote

7. Adolescents are far more likely to be threatened with a gun than to use one in self-defense

We analyzed data from a telephone survey of 5,800 California adolescents aged 12-17 years, which asked questions about gun threats against and self-defense gun use by these young people.  We found that these young people were far more likely to be threatened with a gun than to use a gun in self-defense, and most of the reported self-defense gun uses were hostile interactions between armed adolescents.  Males, smokers, binge drinkers, those who threatened others and whose parents were less likely to know their whereabouts were more likely both to be threatened with a gun and to use a gun in self-defense.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew.  Gun threats against and self-defense gun use by California adolescents.  Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine.  2004; 158:395-400.

Quote

8. Criminals who are shot are typically the victims of crime

Using data from a survey of detainees in a Washington D.C. jail, we worked with a prison physician to investigate the circumstances of gunshot wounds to these criminals.

We found that one in four of these detainees had been wounded, in events that appear unrelated to their incarceration.  Most were shot when they were victims of robberies, assaults and crossfires.  Virtually none report being wounded by a “law-abiding citizen.”

May, John P; Hemenway, David. Oen, Roger; Pitts, Khalid R.  When criminals are shot: A survey of Washington DC jail detainees.  Medscape General Medicine.  2000; June 28. www.medscape.com

Quote

9-10. Few criminals are shot by decent law-abiding citizens

Using data from surveys of detainees in six jails from around the nation, we worked with a prison physician to determine whether criminals seek hospital medical care when they are shot.  Criminals almost always go to the hospital when they are shot.  To believe fully the claims of millions of self-defense gun uses each year would mean believing that decent law-abiding citizens shot hundreds of thousands of criminals.  But the data from emergency departments belie this claim, unless hundreds of thousands of wounded criminals are afraid to seek medical care.  But virtually all criminals who have been shot went to the hospital, and can describe in detail what happened there.

May, John P; Hemenway, David. Oen, Roger; Pitts, Khalid R.  Medical Care Solicitation by Criminals with Gunshot Wound Injuries: A Survey of Washington DC Jail Detainees.  Journal of Trauma.  2000; 48:130-132.

May, John P; Hemenway, David.  Do Criminals Go to the Hospital When They are Shot?  Injury Prevention.  2002; 8:236-238.

Quote

11. Self-defense gun use is rare and not more effective at preventing injury than other protective actions

Victims use guns in less than 1% of contact crimes, and women never use guns to protect themselves against sexual assault (in more than 300 cases).  Victims using a gun were no less likely to be injured after taking protective action than victims using other forms of protective action.  Compared to other protective actions, the National Crime Victimization Surveys provide little evidence that self-defense gun use is uniquely beneficial in reducing the likelihood of injury or property loss.

This article helps provide accurate information concerning self-defense gun use.   It shows that many of the claims about the benefits of gun ownership are largely myths.

Hemenway D, Solnick SJ.  The epidemiology of self-defense gun use: Evidence from the National Crime Victimization Surveys 2007-2011.  Preventive Medicine.  2015; 79: 22-27.

but whatever. you found one sentence that validates your worldview, so that must be correct.

[hayden_horn 11365]

also

Quote

The use of guns in self-defense by private citizens is extremely rare. VPC research has found a gun is far more likely to be used in a homicide or suicide than in a justifiable homicide. More guns are stolen each year than are used in self-defense.

The gun lobby seeks to expand the carrying of concealed, loaded handguns into an ever-increasing number of public spaces, while at the same time blocking any restrictions on the availability of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines. The main argument used to advance these policies is that guns are a common and effective tool for self-defense. This argument is false.

A series of VPC studies on guns and self-defense thoroughly disprove the NRA myth. These studies analyze national data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program’s Supplementary Homicide Report (SHR) and the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS). Among the findings of the most recent edition of the study are the following:

In 2017, the FBI reports there were only 298 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 10,380 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 35 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.
Intended victims of violent crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 1.1 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.
Intended victims of property crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 0.3 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.
When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.

Publications
Firearm Justifiable Homicides and Non-Fatal Self Defense Gun Use (May 2020)
View the Press Release

https://vpc.org/revealing-the-impacts-of-gun-violence/self-defense-gun-use/

[hayden_horn 11365]

also

https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/

Quote

A firearm might not actually help you stand watch over your family
It’s natural to worry about safety during a national emergency and to want to do everything possible to protect ourselves and our family members. The problem is that our perception of risk is typically skewed: We exaggerate certain kinds of risk and minimize others. Many Americans think that having a gun in the house will protect them, if, say, someone breaks in to attack or steal from them — yet violent break-ins are actually quite rare and have become steadily less common over the past 20 years. And when one occurs, having a gun is no safety guarantee.

Indeed, although the NRA and others argue that “good guys with guns” save lives, these kinds of incidents are the exception rather than the rule. This misperception stems largely from a study published in 1995 by criminologists Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, who asked 5,000 Americans if they, or other household members, had ever used their guns in the past year for self-defense. Based on the responses they received, the criminologists estimated that guns are used for self defense in the United States more than 2.5 million times a year. But other researchers argue that the survey was ambiguous and likely over-estimated defensive gun use; more recent studies have found that guns are only rarely used for self-defense. In 2015, David Hemenway, director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, and Sara Solnick, an economist at the University of Vermont, analyzed national government surveys involving more than 14,000 people and reported that guns are used for self-protection in less than 1 percent of all crimes that take place in the presence of a victim. They also found that people were more likely to be injured after threatening attackers with guns than they were if they had called the police or run away.

Quote

In a landmark study published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1993, researchers found that having a gun in the home was linked with nearly three times higher odds that someone would be killed at home by a family member or intimate acquaintance. Studies using more recent data have come to the same conclusion. In a 2019 study, researchers found that states with high levels of household gun ownership have more domestic gun homicides than other states do. In fact, the quartile of states with the highest rates of gun ownership have 65 percent more domestic gun homicides than the quartile with the least, which is worrisome considering that domestic violence has worsened during the coronavirus outbreak.

Quote

Having a gun in the house makes grave accidents much more likely
It may seem obvious, but the evidence is compelling that any home that contains a gun is more likely to be the site of a firearm injury.

In a 2017 study published in Science, Philip Levine and his colleague Robin McKnight found that where gun sales increased after Sandy Hook (as indicated by increases in background checks), rates of accidental death rose, too. They estimated that 60 additional people, including 20 children, were killed in the aftermath of Sandy Hook because of the excess guns people purchased. “With everyone staying home, those new guns are more likely to fall into the hands of a child or other inexperienced user, with deadly consequences,” says Levine, an economist at Wellesley College in Massachusetts.

And gun accidents are likely to worsen in the current atmosphere. For one thing, Americans who become first-time gun owners during the pandemic may not have the option of taking in-person safety classes because of social distancing guidelines, which have shuttered most gun ranges. This is a problem because “we know that guns in the home increase the risk for gun injury,” says Cassandra Crifasi, the deputy director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.

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Fears over the coronavirus may incite Americans to make other choices, too, that worsen their risk for gun injury and death. Crifasi’s research has shown that when people are concerned about home defense, they are less likely to store their guns safely — in a locked cabinet or safe, ideally in a separate place from ammunition. (Gun owners who don’t take safety courses are also less likely to store their guns properly, she and her colleagues found.) Yet in homes where firearms are unsafely stored, family members are more likely to be hurt or killed by their guns.

[Bama Chick 28596]

[Guest Lobo]

I think I'd feel more confident in a CHL or open-carry Texan being able to disarm/disable a mass-shooter in expedited fashion if most of the CHL/open-carry Texans I see didn't get need 90 winded seconds at HEB just to get their wallets out of their pocket.  

I was thinking about Boulder and how many gun owners there are in Colorado.  And watching this guy in front of me at the store the other day.  I could make out his pistol under pullover.  Guy took probably 2 full minutes to get his glasses, look at the POS interface, figure out how to get his chip in the reader, and get it back out again after the beep.  And I thought, "Yeah, when the shit goes down...I don't want to be anywhere near this fucking guy."  

[henrygandorf 29194]

jesus do i need to post the jim jefferies video again?

uh, i wasn't wearing my holster.

[hayden_horn 11365]

also

https://www.gvpedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/DGU-Fact-Sheet-2-Graphics-Split-Screen-Logo-April-16-2020.pdf

Quote

It is a common myth that a good guy with a gun will keep us safe from a bad guy with a gun. Surveys show that 60%
of people believe that a firearm makes them safer. The idea that guns make us safer is simply false and can have a
deadly impact. In fact, there are only about 2,000 verified cases annually, which are vastly outnumbered by the more
than 39,000 firearm deaths, tens of thousands more injuries, hundreds of thousands more abusive uses, and more
than 200,000 annual firearm thefts.

Quote

The risk of having guns in the community:
● “Stand your ground” laws have been shown to increase homicides. (Hughes 2019)
● Ten years after the adoption of right-to-carry (RTC) laws, violent crime is estimated to be 13-15% higher than
it would have been without the RTC law. (Donohue 2017)
● FBI reports of active shooter incidents find that unarmed civilians stop more active shooters than armed
civilians. FBI

Quote

GUNS ARE NOT THE “GREAT EQUALIZER” FOR WOMEN Myriad studies show that the NRA and its allies
grossly misrepresent the actual dangers women face. It is people women know, not strangers, who pose the
greatest threat. Domestic abuse is five times more likely to turn deadly if firearms are present in a home. A
case-control study comparing women killed by an intimate partner to women who had been battered but not
killed revealed that more than half of the homicide victims lived with a firearm in the home, while that was
true for only 16 percent of women who were abused but survived. Evan DeFilippis, Devin Hughes 2016

Quote

Organization Estimated DGU Method and Comments
Gun Violence Archive (GVA) 2,000 ● Relies on empirical data from police and media
reports and is, therefore, the most reliable data.
Gary Kleck’s Survey
Conducted in 1993 by Dr. Gary
Kleck and Marc Gertz
2.5 million ● Surveys of rare events such as DGUs exaggerate the
frequency due to false positives.
● Crime predictions are mathematically impossible.
● Kleck's research indicates 207,000 criminals are shot
every year by law-abiding citizens, yet this number is
higher than the total number of people shot annually,
including suicides and unintentional shootings.
National Crime Victimization
Survey (NCVS)
Bureau of Justice Statistics
50,000 - 100,000 ● NCVS estimate also suffers from false positives and
is likely to be an overestimate

Quote

According to Kleck’s estimates, guns were used defensively in 845,000 burglaries, yet we know from reliable
victimization surveys there were fewer than 1.3 million burglaries in the U.S. at the time of the survey, and
33% had occupants in the home were sleeping. Of those households, only 42% owned firearms. Even if
burglars only targeted households that owned firearms, and those gun owners used guns in self-defense
every time they were awake, at most, only 117,000 defensive uses in response to burglaries would be even
possible. Kleck’s analysis also implies 207,000 criminals are shot every year by law-abiding citizens, yet
there are no medical records to support this claim. While Kleck has claimed the majority of criminals simply
never seek medical attention, data indicates more than 90% of criminals who have been wounded prior to
incarceration seek medical attention.

Quote

A counterargument heard from gun advocates is from a “Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Study”
commissioned in 2013 at the direction of the Obama White House.
1) The “CDC Study” is neither a study nor from the CDC. Rather, it is a review of the literature published by the
Institute of Medicine and National Research Council. Its purpose was to highlight aspects of gun violence
that need further study.
2) One of the authors is Gary Kleck who cites his own flawed survey and fails to mention his bias.
3) The defensive gun use section is not new research, but is merely citing existing flawed research.
4) The Report was written in 2013, a year before the Gun Violence Archive began compiling data. The GVA’s
empirical data is more reliable than survey data in question (Kleck and NCVS) which has glaring flaws.

Quote

Conclusion: Strong evidence shows that right-to-carry, permitless carry, stand-your-ground-laws and guns in
homes and communities are far more likely to cause death and injury to gun owners, their families, and the
community at large rather than prevent or stop a crime. Guns are not making us safer.
Recommended reading:
● The Myth Behind Defensive Gun Ownership
● Defensive Gun Use: Gary Kleck Misfires Again
● Gunfight or Flight: New Study Finds No Advantages to
Using a Firearm in Self-Defense Situations
Learn more at

 

[Guest Lobo]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

jesus do i need to post the jim jefferies video again?

uh, i wasn't wearing my holster.

It's a great bit.  And he has an incredibly valid point about how hard it's gonna be to get to most weapons indoors.  I can sorta see how a CHL carrier in public, that really knows that they're doing could thwart a shooting.  Unfortunately, I don't shop in the kinds of stores where anybody knows what the fuck they're doing.  

[workswithseed 2109]

23 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i know you don't care, as i've engaged you in good faith on any number of issues, and you never, ever concede an obvious point. 

but whatever, here you go:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/

but whatever. you found one sentence that validates your worldview, so that must be correct.

 

6

Abstract

In the US, guns, particularly handguns, are typically brought into the home for protection. The wisdom of having a firearm in the home, however, is disputed. While guns appear to be a risk factor for family homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm fatality, no evidence has been available about gun use at home to intimidate family members and little about gun use to thwart crimes by intruders, or about the use of other weapons in home self-defense. Over the past decade, various private surveys have asked questions about the respondent's use of guns in self-defense. None, however, has asked detailed questions about the use of guns to threaten or intimidate the respondent. This study presents results from a national random digit dial telephone survey of 1906 US adults conducted in the spring of 1996. Respondents were asked about hostile gun displays and use of guns and other weapons in self-defense at home in the past five years. The objective of the survey was to assess the relative frequency and characteristics of weapons-related events at home. Thirteen respondents reported that a gun was displayed against them at home, two reported using a gun in self-defense at home, and 24 reported using another weapon (e.g. knife, baseball bat) in home self-defense. While we do not always know whose weapon was used in these incidents, most gun brandishings were by male intimates against women. A gun in the home can be used against family members or intruders and can be used not only to kill and wound, but to intimidate and frighten. This small study provides some evidence that guns may be used at least as often by family members to frighten intimates as to thwart crime, and that other weapons are far more commonly used against intruders than are guns.

While I'm not going to be able to read everything right now, but if that's the amount of people they asked for the survey, for just one, I'd look into the others. I'll go over the rest of the data when I get of work.

[workswithseed 2109]

13 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

I do like that you see a bunch of posts, and just say something that hasn't happened yet. You haven't even checked the info yourself. 

[henrygandorf 29194]

8 minutes ago, Lobo said:

It's a great bit.  And he has an incredibly valid point about how hard it's gonna be to get to most weapons indoors.  I can sorta see how a CHL carrier in public, that really knows that they're doing could thwart a shooting.  Unfortunately, I don't shop in the kinds of stores where anybody knows what the fuck they're doing.  

i think it also just proves the larger point that at its absolute best, the phrase, "i keep a gun in my house/on my person to protect myself and my family" ends with you shooting somebody.  at optimum 1,000,000-1 type of odds, where someone is trying to do you lethal harm, and you're able to get to your gun, not freak out, remember your "training", and back up your claim of why you have it in the first place, the literal best-case scenario ends with you shooting someone, possibly killing someone.

is that what people want?  is there some daydream fantasy someone's having where they pull out their 9 and point it, causing the villain to just go out the way they came in and everybody goes back to sleep?

so in a best case scenario, it's a completely life-altering, super traumatic event.  for the good guys.  so dumb.

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, wife and I were totally laid back gun owners before we had kids.  Everything was safe but it was never about getting to kill somebody in our house.  Had a guy try to vandalize a guest car in our driveway once, didn't bother us---let insurance figure it out if he ain't trying to enter the garage.  Another night, some dickhead down the creek from us was drunk and trying to shoot coyotes.  That one made me spring up and remind his dumbass that he could hit somebody or a pet in somebody's backyard across the creek.  but no reason to take my weapon with me and escalate the situation.  

But we're both light sleepers and she's a very protective mama bear even by female standards.  But we get two little kids and we just thought, there's no fucking point in having this thing anywhere close to where we could possibly get to it in time.  I'll get drunk and decide to clean it, or the oldest one who is a fucking future safe-cracker will figure out how to get into the strongbox.  Or wife will nudge me because she thinks there's homeless people living in our attic smoking meth looking to rape her and I'll fumble around with the weapon while she's googling the paranoid shit she googles.  And I'll accidentally discharge it (I'm barely fucking coordinated in the afternoon, in the middle of the night I'm like Walter, Jr. stumbling around looking for breakfast).  Still have my NRA pro marksman ranking but I ain't hitting shit in the middle of the night.  If everybody stands still, is quiet, and gives me a minute to rub my eyes, I can hit most targets.  But I'm guessing the invader is not going to afford me that luxury.  Oh wait, my oldest decided to come downstairs to see what the ruckus was about and now I'm distracted with her safety and the game is over.  So the weapons all left the house.  

Then as a gift I got a handgun that has a really interesting security feature that is apparently not available in retail yet (it's not classified or anything, they just don't sell it yet it retail yet).  I'm sure I'm jinxing it but I cannot conceive of a way in which anybody but me could get to the gun, let alone fire it.  So again, kinda defeats the point for my wife.  And while I feel it's safe from accidents, it's still fucking far away and when it comes time for me to shoot it, it's nighttime and I'm fucked up. 

Who wants to play close-quarters urban combat in their own fucking home?  If we were on a huge swath of land in the country, I'd go out onto the property and take care of business...I guess?  But doesn't that just leave my family exposed back inside?  Safety first, but self-realization a close second.  The chances of somebody actually invading my home, me getting the weapon, getting off clean shots on the invader, not hitting a member of my family, etc.  It's 500,000:1.  Nevermind that scenario though because I probably already got rid of the weapon because somebody tried to use it for suicide or after 6 bourbons and cleaning my fishing gear, I decided to clean the weapon and left it out before bedtime.  

25,000 people a year die from gun-inflicted suicides.  And in a disturbingly large percentage of those, the gun wasn't theirs.  But they knew where it was.  My two kids don't need that, they don't need Dad to be a hero gunslinger.  They need to look at the school calendar and say, "Oh, Pizza Day!"  not "Daddy, what's 'Active Shooter Drill' today mean?"  

[Anastasis 23481]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

also

https://vpc.org/revealing-the-impacts-of-gun-violence/self-defense-gun-use/

We should make crime illegal.

 

In all seriousness, if you use a gun in the commission of a criminal act, you should get the book thrown at you on sentencing. 

[Anastasis 23481]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

also

https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/

You know what we need to do.

 

 

[Anastasis 23481]

58 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

GUNS ARE NOT THE “GREAT EQUALIZER” FOR WOMEN Myriad studies show that the NRA and its allies
grossly misrepresent the actual dangers women face.

Interesting angle. 

[Anastasis 23481]

And none of this has anything to do with 2nd amendment rights, but is an important part of the discussion.  I am still fascinated by the same posters that were arguing that we were on the verge of a fascist takeover of the United States government just a few months ago not resonating with the real purpose of the 2nd amendment. It has nothing to do with hunting, or home defense, or wearing your small dick size on your hip. 

[Neonmoon 38130]

Every single person I know grew up with guns and owns guns and not one has ever used or needed their gun for home protection 

[Constant 6752]

4 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Every single person I know grew up with guns and owns guns and not one has ever used or needed their gun for home protection 

Home invasion robbery fantasy’s people base that decision on simply don’t happen. Unless you’re running a trap house and a rival crew wants to jack your shit. Sure, get a shotty. 
 

Everyone else’s house gets burglarized when its clear no one is home; most often in broad daylight. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Constant

[henrygandorf 29194]

small sample size and all, but i think it's pretty clear that "more guns" is never safer.  we don't need to give a school security guard or a teacher a gun or gun training.  a gun in every bedroom won't stop home invasions or burglary.  a gun in every car won't help what i guess is an uncontrollable car-jacking problem? (i only hear about car-jacking in these types of threads).

in boulder, one of the first on the scene was a cop, with a gun, and gun training, and he's dead now.

[hayden_horn 11365]

11 minutes ago, Constant said:

Home invasion robbery fantasy’s people base that decision on simply don’t happen. Unless you’re running a trap house and a rival crew wants to jack your shit. Sure, get a shotty. 
 

Everyone else’s house gets burglarized when its clear no one is home; most often in broad daylight. 

not to mention the inherent danger of our drywall. my kids' bedrooms are near the front of the house. if someone comes in the front door and i come blasting out of my bedroom, i best hit that invader, or there exists the very real opportunity that i start sending ordnance into my boys' rooms.

[bernorange 8363]

13 minutes ago, Constant said:

Home invasion robbery fantasy’s people base that decision on simply don’t happen. Unless you’re running a trap house and a rival crew wants to jack your shit. Sure, get a shotty. 
 

Everyone else’s house gets burglarized when its clear no one is home; most often in broad daylight. 

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2021/03/25/pasadena-home-invasions-leave-1-dead-2-injured-police-say/

Uh huh.

[Anastasis 23481]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

in boulder, one of the first on the scene was a cop, with a gun, and gun training, and he's dead now.

Cops should be the first targets of any gun control measures. 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

I'm going to ignore the government's tanks, bombs, and bazookas and grab my AR and some ideal of the 2nd amendment to stop tyranny - keep the sheriff from repossessing my house cause I stopped taxes.  

[Aqua Buddha 14600]

The suicide misdirect is standard operating procedure for Republicans.  

"Issue B is much worse than Issue A!"

"What do you want to do then about Issue B?"

"Well, nothing."

They don't give a shit about suicides or mental health and only pretended to during the lockdowns.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Aqua Buddha

[Guest Lobo]

^

this.  Top 3 response to any and all Covid-19 restrictions was, "Won't somebody think of the depressed?  These measures will lead to suicide!!!" /2A crew

"Okay, well almost 60% of suicides in the United States are done with firearms...many done with a weapon owned by somebody else but known to the suicide victim."

"Yes, well all suicide is bad.  And it's gonna get worse under these draconian Covid-19 restrictions!" /2A crew

"Okay, well we could restrict gun sales for the short-term to people exhibiting signs of mental health decline and/or suicidal tendencies."

"You know what?  Changed my mind.  Suicide increases during Covid-19, not a huge deal.  Let's switch back to bitching about schools opening." /2A crew 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Lobo

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

It doesn't sound all that novel, really. Similar tactic to the requirement that one solve all black-on-black gun crime in *checks notes* Chicago prior to addressing any issues related to mass shootings, killing of unarmed citizens by police officers, or 'intimidation'  protests held inside State Capitols prior to threatening elected officials with kidnapping.

[Dr. Teeth 5845]

Starting to think we might have a problem. 
 

 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

47 minutes ago, Dr. Teeth said:

Starting to think we might have a problem. 
 

 

 

Joint statement from the GOP and NRA

Edited March 27, 2021 by Grade of D as in David

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Maybe the good guys with a gun won this time, they’re due after batting 0/375

[henrygandorf 29194]

sounds like a lot of folks were busy protecting themselves from home invasions and carjackers tonight. 

[Goredho 17413]

On 3/26/2021 at 8:50 AM, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

That makes me a bit sad. 

It is what it is.  We were a rabbit’s fart away from being a failed experiment in democracy and the GOP is showing that they are doubling down on subverting elections and the will of the people.  The 2020 election was just the end of the beginning.

[workswithseed 2109]

18 minutes ago, Goredho said:

It is what it is.  We were a rabbit’s fart away from being a failed experiment in democracy and the GOP is showing that they are doubling down on subverting elections and the will of the people.  The 2020 election was just the end of the beginning.

Your thought process made me think of this.

[Dahobbs 17635]

5 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Your thought process made me think of this.

You have very dumb thoughts. 

[mdmost 43014]

Ha. Gun grabbers. Now do an honest one for Gun Regulations people. The mental gymnastics are not that hard. 

[Goredho 17413]

21 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Your thought process made me think of this.

I want to defend myself here, but I just can’t stoop to the stupidity necessary to understand how you are attempting to apply this meme to my post.

[JimmyJames 12271]

37 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Your thought process made me think of this.

It’s better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

[aggie08 21513]

38 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Your thought process made me think of this.

American gun owners who actually pretend that they own their weapons for the potential of having to overthrow their oppressive government is seriously one of the more pathetic things I can think of.

[JimmyJames 12271]

Just now, aggie08 said:

American gun owners who actually pretend that they own their weapons for the potential of having to overthrow their oppressive government is seriously one of the more pathetic things I can think of.

It really is childlike and pathetic. These people are such complete losers.

[workswithseed 2109]

26 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I want to defend myself here, but I just can’t stoop to the stupidity necessary to understand how you are attempting to apply this meme to my post.

Your prior post really.

[workswithseed 2109]

14 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

American gun owners who actually pretend that they own their weapons for the potential of having to overthrow their oppressive government is seriously one of the more pathetic things I can think of.

I mean @Hugo Stiglitz said it best when he said that our military has been loosing wars. I just don't get what guns are for than that, maybe you really are dumb enough to think it's for hunting.

[workswithseed 2109]

22 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

It’s better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

What don't you agree with there? Or just say nothing and not getting anywhere.

[workswithseed 2109]

50 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Ha. Gun grabbers. Now do an honest one for Gun Regulations people. The mental gymnastics are not that hard. 

Guns have never been brought into a no gun zone, stuff like that?

[aggie08 21513]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

I mean @Hugo Stiglitz said it best when he said that our military has been loosing wars. I just don't get what guns are for than that, maybe you really are dumb enough to think it's for hunting.

*losing

You don't get what guns are for? You don't get why private citizens own small arsenals? Really? Do you have to be so fucking dense on literally everything?

It's because they're cool and a fun hobby. In the same way that fast cars are cool. And there's absolutely nothing fucking wrong with that, provided that they're used and stored safely and responsibly. But just admit that and spare us all the abject nonsense that you're one bad government policy away from pausing Netflix, getting off your couch, and assembling the militia for your march on the State Capitol. All in an obvious attempt to justify the obvious: "I like guns."

The Proud Boys, et all, are dumb enough to believe that an election was just stolen from their rightfully ejected President, and those in charge of the installed government want take every last dime and freedom they possess. What's more serious than that? Why isn't the revolution starting? All that rigorous "training" in the woods. It's almost like their lives aren't actually that bad, and they prefer cosplay over staring down the barrel of someone else's gun.

Edited March 29, 2021 by aggie08

[workswithseed 2109]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

*losing

You don't get what guns are for? You don't get why private citizens own small arsenals? Really? Do you have to be so fucking dense on literally everything?

It's because they're cool and a fun hobby. In the same way that fast cars are cool. And there's absolutely nothing fucking wrong with that, provided that they're used and stored safely and responsibly. But just admit that and spare us all the abject nonsense that you're one bad government policy away from pausing Netflix, getting off your couch, and assembling the militia for your march on the State Capitol. All in an obvious attempt to justify the obvious: "I like guns."

The Proud Boys, et all, are dumb enough to believe that an election was just stolen from their rightfully ejected President, and those in charge of the installed government want take every last dime and freedom they possess. What's more serious than that? Why isn't the revolution starting? All that rigorous "training" in the woods. It's almost like their lives aren't actually that bad, and they prefer cosplay over staring down the barrel of someone else's gun.

This is why we shouldn't infringe on guns.This is you.

[tchookem 3905]

Your thought process made me think of this.

When's militia practice?

[aggie08 21513]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

This is why we shouldn't infringe on guns.This is you.

Did you live under power lines as a kid or something?

[workswithseed 2109]

5 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Did you live under power lines as a kid or something?

No, but I know you seem to not understand what the second amendment is for. It wasn't for 'fun.'

 

[Dahobbs 17635]

16 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

No, but I know you seem to not understand what the second amendment is for. It wasn't for 'fun.'

 

Honestly, I'm surprised you don't forget to breathe. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Dahobbs

[workswithseed 2109]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Honestly, I'm surprised you don't forget to breathe. 

I'm honestly surprised you'd say anything. You just reminded me to do so. I'd have died without. Looks like you have me for a few more minutes longer.