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Wulaw Horn

By Wulaw Horn
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lulz

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That house looks like Plano buttfucked the woodlands

alincoln
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You are both lying.  No one knows anyone who watches LIV

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C-Man

C-Man 27184

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My question is why are they in the game of golf — do they love it or are they just in it for the money? If the latter, go to the Mickey Mouse LIV Tour — 54-hole events, shotgun starts, music blaring (I was unaware of this) and limited events. Plus, you can perhaps forget about playing majors or Ryder Cups moving forward. That’s what makes golfing legends, those events.

FIGJAM, DJ, Reed, Sergio and the others who have already reached golf’s mountaintop are slightly insulated but the young players most certainly are not.

Tiger was 100% dead-on, balls right on this. He had to make his feelings known on the subject. I doubt he says much more about it at this point.

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heso

heso 2785

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I can’t see why I should I’ve a fuck about shotgun starts. How is that better in any way for me, the tv golf viewer on Saturday and Sunday? I don’t want to try to figure how which holes a guy has to play down the stretch. I want to see the guys in contention play the same holes consecutively. 

Why are they blasting music? What kind of music? Doo-wop? Thrash metal? I assume since their trying to pretend to be cool it’s some sort of modern pop mixed with euro house music. That seems really stupid. 

The team aspect is so fucking lame. Fireballs? Niblicks? Come on. It’s like they sat in a board room in Saudi Arabia and someone said “how can we get people to care about this?” And someone me else said “well I hear people are really invested in teams. Let’s make up some teams and i guarantee people will love it.” And it never crossed their mind what ties most people to a team. 

the whole thing is so contrived and phony and stupid. 

the guys that are any good should just come out and say “this is a shitload of money and I don’t give a fuck about anything else.” And the other guys should say “I’m well past my prime and I’m never going to win anything of any significance ever again and this is a shitload of money.” 

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dcar00

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22 minutes ago, heso said:

I can’t see why I should I’ve a fuck about shotgun starts. How is that better in any way for me, the tv golf viewer on Saturday and Sunday? I don’t want to try to figure how which holes a guy has to play down the stretch. I want to see the guys in contention play the same holes consecutively. 

Why are they blasting music? What kind of music? Doo-wop? Thrash metal? I assume since their trying to pretend to be cool it’s some sort of modern pop mixed with euro house music. That seems really stupid. 

The team aspect is so fucking lame. Fireballs? Niblicks? Come on. It’s like they sat in a board room in Saudi Arabia and someone said “how can we get people to care about this?” And someone me else said “well I hear people are really invested in teams. Let’s make up some teams and i guarantee people will love it.” And it never crossed their mind what ties most people to a team. 

the whole thing is so contrived and phony and stupid. 

the guys that are any good should just come out and say “this is a shitload of money and I don’t give a fuck about anything else.” And the other guys should say “I’m well past my prime and I’m never going to win anything of any significance ever again and this is a shitload of money.” 

why do they have to say it? It is obvious.  As it relates to their job to  make a living/money do they have to care about something else? If someone rolled up to you and said "hey I've got this new job. It is legal. It is the same thing you already do, but It is about 50% of the work you do today and there is a huge massive life changing signing bonus. The only catch is you'll never be a C-Level dude. In fact, no one may remember your name"  would you take it?

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txduck87

txduck87 985

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why do they have to say it? It is obvious.  As it relates to their job to  make a living/money do they have to care about something else? If someone rolled up to you and said "hey I've got this new job. It is legal. It is the same thing you already do, but It is about 50% of the work you do today and there is a huge massive life changing signing bonus. The only catch is you'll never be a C-Level dude. In fact, no one may remember your name"  would you take it?

f601242c957edae2704977c22c09c78d.gif

Still think it’s stupid and won’t last more than 3 years though.
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heso

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1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

why do they have to say it? It is obvious.  As it relates to their job to  make a living/money do they have to care about something else? If someone rolled up to you and said "hey I've got this new job. It is legal. It is the same thing you already do, but It is about 50% of the work you do today and there is a huge massive life changing signing bonus. The only catch is you'll never be a C-Level dude. In fact, no one may remember your name"  would you take it?

I don’t really care if they say it or not. What the players say is really the least of my concerns. It sort of irks me that they are trying to feed us bullshit canned lines about family time and more freedom. 
 

but I also know that, considering the douche bags that have jumped, that Bryson, Reed, Koepka, etc are absolutely going to expect us all to give a shit and be impressed when they win a 54 hole, no cut, weak field tournament because they beat a few other douche bags and a bunch of scrubs. 

every single aspect about it seems forced and phony. Even the fucking tag line on their website: “golf, but louder”. It’s all so cheesy. 

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MonkeyDoughnut

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The PGA tour has loved the power it has over its golfers as independent contractors but now doesn't like the players actually utilizing that freedom. If they want to change it, let the players unionize and actually have a stake in the game that only exists because of them.  It's ridiculous that the tour pulls in over $1.5B from deals yet it's players are responsible for lodging, travel, caddies, locker room fees/tips, food, etc. 

This isn't an issue over which tour is better, whether players should stay or leave, it's about the tour not sharing enough of the revenue generated by the star golfers back into the game.  Hearing guys like Rory and Tiger talk about players taking the money having no incentive to practice.... please...they already have the money... and yet they still practice.

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Hate

Hate 20106

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Yeah, but Rory , Tiger, and guys like that are in it to compete as well.  The money is absolutely a reason for them to do it, but they firmly believe that by winning the big tour events they build a legacy in the game of golf.  The only chance the LIV guys have at really building a legacy (other than maybe Koepka and DJ) is if they can play in the Majors.  Unless one of them wins one within the next 5 years, their legacy will be cemented. 

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txduck87

txduck87 985

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Yeah, but Rory , Tiger, and guys like that are in it to compete as well.  The money is absolutely a reason for them to do it, but they firmly believe that by winning the big tour events they build a legacy in the game of golf.  The only chance the LIV guys have at really building a legacy (other than maybe Koepka and DJ) is if they can play in the Majors.  Unless one of them wins one within the next 5 years, their legacy will be cemented. 

11696c09ada63fb82db302a5904ebe97.gif
Agree. We all make choices in life . They made theirs . This golf “arena league” will be done in 3 years and those guys are done. Rich, but done. No legacy in golf.
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dcar00

dcar00 14153

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4 hours ago, heso said:

I don’t really care if they say it or not. What the players say is really the least of my concerns. It sort of irks me that they are trying to feed us bullshit canned lines about family time and more freedom. 
 

but I also know that, considering the douche bags that have jumped, that Bryson, Reed, Koepka, etc are absolutely going to expect us all to give a shit and be impressed when they win a 54 hole, no cut, weak field tournament because they beat a few other douche bags and a bunch of scrubs. 

every single aspect about it seems forced and phony. Even the fucking tag line on their website: “golf, but louder”. It’s all so cheesy. 

Tiger Woods is the king of bullshit canned lines/marketing spin and has been for almost his entire career.   So is Rory.  I think you are way over estimating the give a fuck that Reed, BDC, Koepka, DJ have in hoping some message board dude is gonna be impressed with them. They wouldn't be able to hear you with all the cash stuffed in their ears anyway.

Its way easier money than the tour is.  who gives a rip what they do. there will be 4 guys taking the place of BDC, Reed, Keopka DJ in no time on the tour.

I will laugh though if one of the LIV guys wins the Open.

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dcar00

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4 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

The PGA tour has loved the power it has over its golfers as independent contractors but now doesn't like the players actually utilizing that freedom. If they want to change it, let the players unionize and actually have a stake in the game that only exists because of them.  It's ridiculous that the tour pulls in over $1.5B from deals yet it's players are responsible for lodging, travel, caddies, locker room fees/tips, food, etc. 

This isn't an issue over which tour is better, whether players should stay or leave, it's about the tour not sharing enough of the revenue generated by the star golfers back into the game.  Hearing guys like Rory and Tiger talk about players taking the money having no incentive to practice.... please...they already have the money... and yet they still practice.

yep and Rory is gonna cash some nice checks in the no cut events the PGA surprisingly found the money for.  Maybe he should give it all to charity because you know, you aren't really grinding for it so it isn't deserved.

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heso

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6 hours ago, dcar00 said:

Tiger Woods is the king of bullshit canned lines/marketing spin and has been for almost his entire career.   So is Rory.  I think you are way over estimating the give a fuck that Reed, BDC, Koepka, DJ have in hoping some message board dude is gonna be impressed with them. They wouldn't be able to hear you with all the cash stuffed in their ears anyway.

Its way easier money than the tour is.  who gives a rip what they do. there will be 4 guys taking the place of BDC, Reed, Keopka DJ in no time on the tour.

I will laugh though if one of the LIV guys wins the Open.

Not just message board assholes, but the golf community in general, and of that lot DJ is the only one that I believe actually doesn’t give a fuck. Koepka tries so hard to act like he doesn’t give a fuck be he definitely cares. He said someone should get fired for not featuring him in one of what was probably 3-4 different commercials for the 2019 us open. 

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dcar00

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3 hours ago, heso said:

Not just message board assholes, but the golf community in general, and of that lot DJ is the only one that I believe actually doesn’t give a fuck. Koepka tries so hard to act like he doesn’t give a fuck be he definitely cares. He said someone should get fired for not featuring him in one of what was probably 3-4 different commercials for the 2019 us open. 

yes, he certainly said he tries to make up motivation for himself.  He was joking about the firing.  and he kind of had a point as he was the back to back winner at the time going for a historic 3 peat.

I really don't give a fuck about Koepka, he seems to be a prick, and the fact that he admitted to making up motivational stuff means I don't think he really gives a shit normally. Golf was a way to make a lot of money for him and he already won 4 majors.  Time to cash in the big check IMO.  Will he try to qualify for any of the majors still, sure he will.  All these guys said goodbye to the "golf community".  most of these dudes only care about themselves anyway...See one Eldrick Tont Woods.

Nobody will miss BDC, Koepka, DJ, etc. in a year or 2.  Plenty of young Americans can take their spot.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19065

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9 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Others rumored to be going are Scott, Leishman, Hideki and your new champion golfer of the year. 

Hideki always made sense to me if you are trying to build worldwide interest. Have to have Japan, Korea and Australia. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19065

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9 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Woman + Saudi = ?

Two things:

1) they already seem to be going full on carnival barker so why not get the whole- let’s watch a woman compete against guys with no cuts over a full season and see how it goes train wreck going 

2) this whole thing is a PR stunt by the Saudis anyway, why not pay a woman and try to paint the picture they aren’t as woman hating as they are accused of being. 

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Revolution512

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Right now the tour strategy is to have its top players continue to speak out against LIV and add a little extra prize money. Their handling of this has a good chance of crippling the tour. Couldn’t come at a worse time with so much young talent in the game and Tiger’s career coming to an end. Fun times ahead.

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dieucla98

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4 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I feel like they should add a woman- if there was an Anika in her prime that would have been a layup. 
And the Saudis could use that as a shield against being women hating. 

You think the Saudis give two shits about their women hating, abusing, demeaning ways? They care as much about that as they do about slave labor. Or a free press. 

Fuck that shit hole of a country. And fuck any golfer getting into bed with them. 

 

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htown85

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3 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

Right now the tour strategy is to have its top players continue to speak out against LIV and add a little extra prize money. Their handling of this has a good chance of crippling the tour. Couldn’t come at a worse time with so much young talent in the game and Tiger’s career coming to an end. Fun times ahead.

The Tour will never have the ability to financially compete with the Saudis. I get the criticism, but what exactly should they be doing?

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19065

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11 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

You think the Saudis give two shits about their women hating, abusing, demeaning ways? They care as much about that as they do about slave labor. Or a free press. 

Fuck that shit hole of a country. And fuck any golfer getting into bed with them. 

 

This entire thing seems to be a PR gambit. I suggested something that I thought might be beneficial PR. Didn’t say they’d do it, just that it might be an interesting idea. 

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MonkeyDoughnut

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27 minutes ago, htown85 said:

The Tour will never have the ability to financially compete with the Saudis. I get the criticism, but what exactly should they be doing?

Paying more out to players, not just top players. Stop pretending there wasn't more money to share. 

 

That said Cameron Smith to LIV rumors only getting louder....

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49143

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Around July 9th...

Spieth's agent Jay Danzi made sure to shut down any potential rumors of Spieth's intent to leave the PGA.  "Jordan is not in discussions with LIV and is fully supportive of and happy on the PGA Tour," Danzi told Golf Monthly.

Danzi's denial did not stop the rumor mill from churning, however, causing Spieth to take to Twitter himself and release a statement on the matter. 

 

Spieth:  "Because of the false reporting today, I feel the need to comment," Spieth said in a statement. "Let me be clear, any reports that I am contemplating competing anywhere other than the PGA Tour are categorically untrue. I am NOT in discussions with LIV. I have been quoted on the record for months that I fully support the PGA Tour and have never considered alternatives. My goal has not changed since I began playing golf - to win PGA TOUR events and major championships and to compete against the best players in the world. Those who truly know me, know what is most important to me."

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MonkeyDoughnut

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8 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

Cam won $2.5mm today, about $1.5 mm less than Brenden Grace won at that abortion in Portland

Ahh... but was about his legacy. We'll all remember the day the he played well but mainly (because that's all they have talked about) how Rory let one slip away.

If everyone thinks LIV will be around only 3-4 years.. why not go grad a couple HUNDRED million for less work and then plan on coming back to the tour later.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19065

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56 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

And a lifetime legacy, including millions in endorsement opportunities. 
In life there is more than money; at least to some.

I get what you are saying but it’s also funny that you mentioned money in the previous sentence in endorsements. 
That is a problem right now for guys looking to jump. Also, the commissions to their managers  are pretty health. If you’ve got to pay your agent 10 or 20% plus you lose 10 million in endorsements that 200 million isn’t going quite as far. 

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Auto Driller

Auto Driller 2504

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It’s clear that the PGA Tour will never be able to match LIV dollar for dollar. The Saudi PIF is too much to handle. Although they did go back to their sponsors and get a lot of new money for the “Top 50” tournament series starting next year.

What it comes down to is that players who care about tradition and legacy are going to stick with the PGA Tour. And they’re not going to live in poverty either. Guys who are in it only for money are going to hop to LIV. I predict that LIV won’t exist for more than 3-4 years though.

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5541

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2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I get what you are saying but it’s also funny that you mentioned money in the previous sentence in endorsements. 
That is a problem right now for guys looking to jump. Also, the commissions to their managers  are pretty health. If you’ve got to pay your agent 10 or 20% plus you lose 10 million in endorsements that 200 million isn’t going quite as far. 

My only point about the endorsements is that winning a major gets you a cash reward far in excess of the prize money; as the quoted posted was comparing.
I have no doubt that the named players are going to make more money signing for LIV. But when most of them can no longer compete for in the majors that will be a loss for them.

I've read some are looking at playing Asian tour events to get OGWR points, and a few have exemptions into majors.

I don't feel bad for any of the guys who join the LIV, or who stay on the PGA Tour. 
The PGA tour offers a lot but you have to grind it out. There is a guy from near my hometown 12 year on the PGA tour, 5 years on the Nationwide/Web.com/Korn Ferry circuit. I doubt he was invited to play on the LIV, but his 17 years includes 1 PGA win (rain shortened 54 hole event), 0 KFT wins - and he has made over $12 million in prize money; every year he seems to struggle keeping his card. 
There was an interesting article several years ago about the PGA tour retirement funding (about $5,000 per cut made), so he has contributions to that account of around $900,000. 


IMO the LIV is a supercharged version of the WGC events; limited field, no cut. Not sure why they are only playing 54 holes (maybe it saves them greens fees 🤣 ) but until they get to what I'd consider full field events, better "broadcast times" (I can't watch as much Thur/Fri), and play courses of interest and have a big name winner. It is somewhere around the KF tour and the senior tour as far as interest in it from me. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19065

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6 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

My only point about the endorsements is that winning a major gets you a cash reward far in excess of the prize money; as the quoted posted was comparing.
I have no doubt that the named players are going to make more money signing for LIV. But when most of them can no longer compete for in the majors that will be a loss for them.

I've read some are looking at playing Asian tour events to get OGWR points, and a few have exemptions into majors.

I don't feel bad for any of the guys who join the LIV, or who stay on the PGA Tour. 
The PGA tour offers a lot but you have to grind it out. There is a guy from near my hometown 12 year on the PGA tour, 5 years on the Nationwide/Web.com/Korn Ferry circuit. I doubt he was invited to play on the LIV, but his 17 years includes 1 PGA win (rain shortened 54 hole event), 0 KFT wins - and he has made over $12 million in prize money; every year he seems to struggle keeping his card. 
There was an interesting article several years ago about the PGA tour retirement funding (about $5,000 per cut made), so he has contributions to that account of around $900,000. 


IMO the LIV is a supercharged version of the WGC events; limited field, no cut. Not sure why they are only playing 54 holes (maybe it saves them greens fees 🤣 ) but until they get to what I'd consider full field events, better "broadcast times" (I can't watch as much Thur/Fri), and play courses of interest and have a big name winner. It is somewhere around the KF tour and the senior tour as far as interest in it from me. 

Agreed with everything you are saying my buddy who knows guys and have played with them says that a tour card is typically considered to be worth $1,000,000 plus in sponsorship, outings, tv time endorsements etc. 

For example- if you have a deal with a ball company and wear their stuff, but aren’t getting paid- you get something like 10k or 20k every time your hat gets shown on TV with a cap at something like 50k or so. So, if you get shown, not even competing but holing out a bunker shot or something- that’s worth more than finishing at the bottom of the field for that one event. 

To your point about winning a major, many people said/wrote that Hideki winning the masters last year was worth 9 figures in endorsements for him. So, yeah winning a major is worth a hell of a lot more than the prize money- for sure. 
 

I too don’t feel sorry for any of them. Even the guys staying on the PGA Tour should fall down thanking Norman and the LIV crew- competition for their services is going to be good for all of them. 

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field

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48 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I get what you are saying but it’s also funny that you mentioned money in the previous sentence in endorsements. 
That is a problem right now for guys looking to jump. Also, the commissions to their managers  are pretty health. If you’ve got to pay your agent 10 or 20% plus you lose 10 million in endorsements that 200 million isn’t going quite as far. 

Decent article on the economics of the contracts.

Screw LIV

Quote

Though it is subject to negotiation, the standard arrangement in professional golf is that players keep all of the money they win on the course but agents take 20 percent of appearance fees and endorsement deals. LIV’s upfront money is treated like the latter, and as a result, the player representatives are getting a fat cut. (Because there is no cut in the events and players are guaranteed a check, some agencies are taking a commission on the first $120,000 of a player’s winnings, treating it as a de facto appearance fee.) One veteran caddie to a top player who has remained loyal to the PGA Tour says in a text message, “I honestly think that one of the backstories to this LIV thing are agents who desperately want the biggest payday of their lives.”

 

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Texas St. Armadillos

Texas St. Armadillos 1381

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5 minutes ago, Pablo said:

Damn.  Big Feherty fan here, that's gonna move the needle for legitimacy at least from a fans perspective.

Probably will. 

I may be in the minority here, but Feherty has definitely lost his fastball over the past year.  I know his son passed away from an overdose in 2017, and he relapsed on his alcohol addiction in 2019.  I am sure that has something to do with it.  He sounds much older, slower, and in general just sad on the radio and on the telecasts.  He's 63, and like most of the LIV folks, probably looking for one last payday before riding off into the sunset.

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Pablo

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2 hours ago, Texas St. Armadillos said:

Probably will. 

I may be in the minority here, but Feherty has definitely lost his fastball over the past year.  I know his son passed away from an overdose in 2017, and he relapsed on his alcohol addiction in 2019.  I am sure that has something to do with it.  He sounds much older, slower, and in general just sad on the radio and on the telecasts.  He's 63, and like most of the LIV folks, probably looking for one last payday before riding off into the sunset.

I knew some of that back story, but lost track of him around 2020 while my own life went off the rails.  I enjoyed his interview show while it was on, but whatever, if he wants to go make more duckets, that's fine.  Just don't sign that deal and say its to benefit the game.

Edited by Pablo
hit send before finishing my thought
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GhostOfTomJoad

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Damn.  Big Feherty fan here, that's gonna move the needle for legitimacy at least from a fans perspective.
Feherty is past his prime but still good for a few great remarks per round. Isn't he dealing with memory issues, possibly brought on his years as an alcoholic?

Plus he always sounded like his dentures were clicking due to dry mouth. Tough to get old on national TV.

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C-Man

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44 minutes ago, Pablo said:

I knew some of that back story, but lost track of him around 2020 while my own life went off the rails.  I enjoyed his interview show while it was on, but whatever, if he wants to go make more duckets, that's fine.  Just don't sign that deal and say its to benefit the game.

This. I'm very disappointed he's headed to the LIV Tour. I'm pretty sure deep down he doesn't really think the LIV Tour is good for the game of golf.

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Wally Fairway

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3 hours ago, Hate said:

I've never tuned into or tuned out of a broadcast because of the announcers. I couldn't possibly care less if he goes to LIV. 

 

2 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

I've definitely put some on mute though.

I watched some of the Open Championship yesterday on mute, and listened to the radio broadcast on the App. 
They didn't really sync up very well, but it was much better to listen to the British announcers that to the NBC crew

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