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Wulaw Horn

By Wulaw Horn
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ztejas

ztejas 43418

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2 hours ago, dcar00 said:

People getting worked up over this have too much time on their hands.

 

How much of the PGA Tour have you watched the past couple weekends? Just curious. 

Their product is already suffering. This isn't some nothingburger. 

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crash_davis
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lulz

babysdaddy
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That house looks like Plano buttfucked the woodlands

alincoln
alincoln

You are both lying.  No one knows anyone who watches LIV

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dcar00

dcar00 14181

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Just now, ztejas said:

How much of the PGA Tour have you watched the past couple weekends? Just curious. 

Their product is already suffering. This isn't some nothingburger. 

I watched final rounds both Sundays.  there are no more Majors, it's not a Ryder Cup year, the PGA got moved.  I'll check in on Presidents Cup.  the Fedex cup playoffs were always gonna be whatever.  Once NFL/College starts no one cares.

People care about the Tour from Pebble Beach to British Open now.   I'll watch if Jordan, Scottie and maybe a few others are in contention.

I like to watch when I know the course as well(Pebble, TPC, Memorial, Palmer)

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Wally Fairway

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1 hour ago, ztejas said:

How much of the PGA Tour have you watched the past couple weekends? Just curious. 

Their product is already suffering. This isn't some nothingburger. 

Give me a break - they are suffering because it is the 2 weeks between the Open Championship and the FedEx playoffs. Every year these are weak fields, with a bunch of guys hoping to play well enough to keep their cards for next year. Fortunately for a few of them they will benefits from the guys jumping ship to play in the no-cut limited field tour.

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StruggleBus

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Posted
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2 hours ago, ztejas said:

How much of the PGA Tour have you watched the past couple weekends? Just curious. 

Their product is already suffering. This isn't some nothingburger. 

Lol. Cherry picking a few no name events isn’t going to get you anywhere when talking to people that actually watch and know golf. 

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thunderlounge

thunderlounge 7816

Posted
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1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

He's got that hot new wife he has to bang. Thoughts and prayers.


She’s a lousy lay. 
 

 

4 hours ago, Chooky said:

That was pretty classy. I would've gone with Wahhabist Death to America Tour or Bone Saw Brigade.

RIB tour sponsored by Smithfield 

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alincoln

alincoln 2371

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12 hours ago, ztejas said:

How much of the PGA Tour have you watched the past couple weekends? Just curious. 

Their product is already suffering. This isn't some nothingburger. 

The 3M and Rocket Mortgage were appointment viewing for all golf fans before LIV.  Now, not so much.

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23107

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1 minute ago, Pam Cummings said:

In 2021 the Masters, on Sunday, with no competition, pulled in a little over 10 million viewers. Which is fantastic for a golf event.

 

It does not even crack the top 100 most viewed broadcasts in that year. That is the reality of this sport.

Well, it did just a little better than the last LIV event which drew 100k viewers on Youtube.

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C-Man

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19 hours ago, dcar00 said:

I watched final rounds both Sundays.  there are no more Majors, it's not a Ryder Cup year, the PGA got moved.  I'll check in on Presidents Cup.  the Fedex cup playoffs were always gonna be whatever.  Once NFL/College starts no one cares.

People care about the Tour from Pebble Beach to British Open now.   I'll watch if Jordan, Scottie and maybe a few others are in contention.

I like to watch when I know the course as well(Pebble, TPC, Memorial, Palmer)

 

18 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

Give me a break - they are suffering because it is the 2 weeks between the Open Championship and the FedEx playoffs. Every year these are weak fields, with a bunch of guys hoping to play well enough to keep their cards for next year. Fortunately for a few of them they will benefits from the guys jumping ship to play in the no-cut limited field tour.

QFT

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field

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17 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

Surly lawyers, what do we think about the lawsuit. Will the traitors be allowed to play in the fedex cup?

Probably.  TRO's always depend on the judge and they are in front of one who appears pretty liberal.  Merits aside, I'd be surprised if she didn't grant the TRO.  

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19069

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On 8/3/2022 at 5:31 PM, dcar00 said:

being a good numbers guy doesn't make you a good common sense guy.

This lawsuit is going nowhere.  As I understand it, they are independent contractors, not employees(or customers LOL).  PGA Tour can decide not to hire independent contractors as they please.

not sure what the rules are on preventing them from going through Q-school every year to qualify but I suppose the Tour has a way to prevent that.  Even though none of these guys are going to want to do that anyway.

The whole thing is pretty funny.  Tony Finau is on his way to being better than BDC anyway.  Nobody is going to miss these guys in a year.  They got some has beens, never weres and a handful of stars(who don't really move the needle).  People getting worked up over this have too much time on their hands.

 

Their stats are also almost universally considered assholes. 

The thing becomes, what happens if the tour continues to bleed players and some of them are stars people care about?  I don’t know if that will happen, but losing the reigning Open (and Players?) champ isn’t a great look. He’s probably #2 behind SS for player of the year and if he won the fed ex I’d probably give it to him over SS.
 

Losing AUS won’t be great for golf. Losing the only Japanese major champ won’t be great either. Will those losses by themselves doom the tour?  Nope. But the more guys like that you lose the more you are setting yourself up for boring and bland leaderboards. If those rumored guys go. if it were to stop here nobody would give a shit I would guess. 

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Hate

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1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Their stats are also almost universally considered assholes. 

The thing becomes, what happens if the tour continues to bleed players and some of them are stars people care about?  I don’t know if that will happen, but losing the reigning Open (and Players?) champ isn’t a great look. He’s probably #2 behind SS for player of the year and if he won the fed ex I’d probably give it to him over SS.
 

Losing AUS won’t be great for golf. Losing the only Japanese major champ won’t be great either. Will those losses by themselves doom the tour?  Nope. But the more guys like that you lose the more you are setting yourself up for boring and bland leaderboards. If those rumored guys go. if it were to stop here nobody would give a shit I would guess. 

None of those guys move the needle at all.  Let's face it, outside of Tiger and Phil nobody in golf these days really brings in the "fringe" fans.  Golf fans will watch as always, but there isn't a huge star out there right now.  Hell,  Matsuyama's caddy may be more famous than him in the US for his gesture after the Masters win. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43418

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2 minutes ago, Hate said:

None of those guys move the needle at all.  Let's face it, outside of Tiger and Phil nobody in golf these days really brings in the "fringe" fans.

Rory would have if he wasn't a pussy and had've closed the British. 

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StruggleBus

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27 minutes ago, Hate said:

None of those guys move the needle at all.  Let's face it, outside of Tiger and Phil nobody in golf these days really brings in the "fringe" fans.  Golf fans will watch as always, but there isn't a huge star out there right now.  Hell,  Matsuyama's caddy may be more famous than him in the US for his gesture after the Masters win. 

Eh. DJ, Bryson, and Koepka were all legit losses for the tour. And Cam Smith will be as well.

Not gonna lie, I love watching DJ play. When he’s on he’s an absolute joy to watch. 
 

Bryson is a cunt but he definitely moves the needle. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19069

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On 8/5/2022 at 9:40 PM, Hate said:

None of those guys move the needle at all.  Let's face it, outside of Tiger and Phil nobody in golf these days really brings in the "fringe" fans.  Golf fans will watch as always, but there isn't a huge star out there right now.  Hell,  Matsuyama's caddy may be more famous than him in the US for his gesture after the Masters win. 

I get what you are saying, but not sure that’s right. I’m a golf fan but busy with raising a family. I watch the majors, and I watch tournaments where someone I care about is leading. That’s pretty much Spieth or Scheffler, but if DJ and BDC were on a leaderboard and I had nothing else going on that would be something I’d watch. It’s never good to have a talent dilution and the more names you take away the less names you have left over for a leaderboard. DJ, Reed and BDC probably were winning what 3 or 4 tournaments a year? And they were names everyone knew?  That’s certainly not helpful. 

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thunderlounge

thunderlounge 7816

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BDC and Koepka were “popular” enough for that head to head charity thing last November in Vegas. 
 

Wonder what the numbers say about that. I never looked. No real curiosity at the time. 
 

It’s Caeser v Pompeii all over again. Where’s the 13th when you need them?

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heso

heso 2791

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2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

DJ, Reed and BDC probably were winning what 3 or 4 tournaments a year? 

Lolwut? Bryson and Reed have combined for 3 wins in the last 3 years, and the last on was in March of 2021. They’ve played a combined 68 tournaments since their last win. 

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ztejas

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2 minutes ago, heso said:

Lolwut? Bryson and Reed have combined for 3 wins in the last 3 years, and the last on was in March of 2021. They’ve played a combined 68 tournaments since their last win. 

Agree that Reed was becoming fairly irrelevant. Bryson hasn't been at 100% in awhile and has obviously played in fewer events since joining LIV. But it's kind of a catch 22 because he doesn't seem particularly interested in winning tour events just like Koepka. One of his injuries was because he was doing the stupid long drive shit. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19069

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28 minutes ago, heso said:

Lolwut? Bryson and Reed have combined for 3 wins in the last 3 years, and the last on was in March of 2021. They’ve played a combined 68 tournaments since their last win. 

I meant those guys combined dude. As in DJ wins at least 1 tournament every year for like 14 of the the last 15 years, BDC is good for 1 or 2 a year and Reed wins some. Yeah- 3 or 4 tournaments a year from those 3 guys. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19069

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Reed has won 9 events in 11 years on Tour

DJ has won 24 tournaments in 15 years on tour

BDC won 8 tournaments in 6 years on tour. 
 

They are 28-38 years old- so not washed. BDCis hurt but probably not broken. DJ and Reed probably took their foot off the gas pedal when they got paid, but if not for the LIV they would have presumably kept at what they’ve historically done more or less. They have all recently won majors. They are all regulars on the team competitions. Yeah bro- I’d say penciling them in for 3-4 wins a year collectively is likely if they’d have stayed on tour. 

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heso

heso 2791

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8 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I meant those guys combined dude. As in DJ wins at least 1 tournament every year for like 14 of the the last 15 years, BDC is good for 1 or 2 a year and Reed wins some. Yeah- 3 or 4 tournaments a year from those 3 guys. 

One of those things is not like the others. You’re lumping one of the best golfers of the last decade with a guy that is decent but is more well know for being a clown and hurting himself trying to prove everyone how smart he is rather than winning tournaments and a guy that’s a solid but unremarkable tour player that outside of two events, the rider cup and the masters, would be completely unknown to casual golf fans. Also he’s a cunt, a cheat, and a thief. Fuck Reed. The tour is better without him. Bryson provides more value as a sideshow than he does trying to win. DJ is the only real loss to the tour out of those 3 guys. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19069

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1 minute ago, heso said:

One of those things is not like the others. You’re lumping one of the best golfers of the last decade with a guy that is decent but is more well know for being a clown and hurting himself trying to prove everyone how smart he is rather than winning tournaments and a guy that’s a solid but unremarkable tour player that outside of two events, the rider cup and the masters, would be completely unknown to casual golf fans. Also he’s a cunt, a cheat, and a thief. Fuck Reed. The tour is better without him. Bryson provides more value as a sideshow than he does trying to win. DJ is the only real loss to the tour out of those 3 guys. 

That’s a lot of fucking hand waving for guys that are on the international teams on the regular. If you sat down with the typical average golf Fan and asked them to name top 20 Americans on tour DJ would be on every list- BDC would be on 95% and Reed would be on 80+. They are all names. I said they were good for 3 or 4 wins a year, you cuntily said that was a stupid statement and I brought the data showing my statement was correct. Even ignoring DJ, BDC and Reed are averaging 2 wins a year collectively in their pro career. Just admit what I said about 3 or 4 wins a year is correct and move on. 
I’ve literally already stipulated that all the LiV stars are cunts and if this is the end of the line with who leaves the tour will be fine 

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ztejas

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23 minutes ago, heso said:

One of those things is not like the others. You’re lumping one of the best golfers of the last decade with a guy that is decent but is more well know for being a clown and hurting himself trying to prove everyone how smart he is rather than winning tournaments and a guy that’s a solid but unremarkable tour player that outside of two events, the rider cup and the masters, would be completely unknown to casual golf fans. Also he’s a cunt, a cheat, and a thief. Fuck Reed. The tour is better without him. Bryson provides more value as a sideshow than he does trying to win. DJ is the only real loss to the tour out of those 3 guys. 

Reed has 2 WGCs, 2 FedEx playoff wins and a Masters. He and Bryson are both well, well above what constitutes average success on Tour. Reed was starting to fall off and hasn't been consistent in awhile but he was still winning tournaments. He had a win on Tour in every season save 2017 from 2013-2021. 

None of them leaving is good for the PGA. It isn't like Phil or Bubba or Martin Kaymer making the jump. All of these guys leaving that are still fairly young and have had extended success on Tour - or were at least poised for that success - is just making the product worse and worse. 

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heso

heso 2791

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55 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Agree that Reed was becoming fairly irrelevant. Bryson hasn't been at 100% in awhile and has obviously played in fewer events since joining LIV. But it's kind of a catch 22 because he doesn't seem particularly interested in winning tour events just like Koepka. One of his injuries was because he was doing the stupid long drive shit. 

It’s not that he’s not interested in winning tournaments, he’s just not that good at winning them. He was so sure that he could dominate the tour by just being longer than everyone else that he claimed Augusta was a par 67 or whatever for him. He’s won a grand total of 1 tournament since then, a year and a half ago. But he’s young and he has talent, so I expect he’ll win a couple more after that Saudi league folds. 

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heso

heso 2791

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4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Reed has 2 WGCs, 2 FedEx playoff wins and a Masters. He and Bryson are both well, well above what constitutes average success on Tour. Reed was starting to fall off and hasn't been consistent in awhile but he was still winning tournaments. He had a win on Tour in every season save 2017 from 2013-2021. 

None of them leaving is good for the PGA. It isn't like Phil or Bubba or Martin Kaymer making the jump. All of these guys leaving that are still fairly young and have had extended success on Tour - or were at least poised for that success - is just making the product worse and worse. 

Reed has a masters and 8 wins that mean nothing other than they are wins. He has more missed cuts than top 10s in the last 2 years. He’s going to slip out of the top 50 in the next few weeks and likely never make it back in. 

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heso

heso 2791

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34 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

That’s a lot of fucking hand waving for guys that are on the international teams on the regular. If you sat down with the typical average golf Fan and asked them to name top 20 Americans on tour DJ would be on every list- BDC would be on 95% and Reed would be on 80+. They are all names. I said they were good for 3 or 4 wins a year, you cuntily said that was a stupid statement and I brought the data showing my statement was correct. Even ignoring DJ, BDC and Reed are averaging 2 wins a year collectively in their pro career. Just admit what I said about 3 or 4 wins a year is correct and move on. 
I’ve literally already stipulated that all the LiV stars are cunts and if this is the end of the line with who leaves the tour will be fine 

I was definitely cunty in my initial reply because it’s the internet and I hastily thought you were making a stupid comment that with a moment’s pause would have made obvious. The 3-4 wins a year was correct, but it’s a bit of a disservice to DJ to lump one of the all time greats with two guys that aren’t remotely close to his level. I still think you’re wildly overvaluing Reed and I think Bryson brings more value as a sideshow than he does as a golfer, but I’ll resign that eyeballs are eyeballs regardless of how you get them.

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dcar00

dcar00 14181

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The PGA does need someone like Jordan, Justin, Scottie, Morikawa, X, etc to go on a run and some of the newer guys to show out. Finau going back to back is good but he's not gonna drive viewers.  I don't think we will really see the effect of LIV until next year with all 4 majors and Ryder Cup.  I think it is going to be limited effect TBH, golf world will be all in on the PGA as they wind towards the Ryder Cup.

DJ, BDC, Koepka certainly were huge coup.  those guys are stars. 

Are people gonna start gambling on LIV like they do PGA? Are the big fans that do things like fantasy, gonna do LIV fantasy if they can't watch it.  If the PGA is successful in keeping LIV off major TV/Cable I think it dies.

On another note, I was thinking about the shotgun start

the one good thing about the shotgun start is if you get a guy coming from pretty far back to post a good round you get to see a lot of his shots vs. maybe the last 4 holes in the tee time start.

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thunderlounge

thunderlounge 7816

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22 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

If the PGA is successful in keeping LIV off major TV/Cable I think it dies.


Here’s a thought: what if they can get it on enough screens in other countries to keep going, without being on anything in the US except streaming from a non-US site?

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ztejas

ztejas 43418

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1 hour ago, heso said:

It’s not that he’s not interested in winning tournaments, he’s just not that good at winning them. He was so sure that he could dominate the tour by just being longer than everyone else that he claimed Augusta was a par 67 or whatever for him. He’s won a grand total of 1 tournament since then, a year and a half ago. But he’s young and he has talent, so I expect he’ll win a couple more after that Saudi league folds. 

 

1 hour ago, heso said:

Reed has a masters and 8 wins that mean nothing other than they are wins. He has more missed cuts than top 10s in the last 2 years. He’s going to slip out of the top 50 in the next few weeks and likely never make it back in. 

I'm not sure who you're comparing these guys to. Their only contemporaries that have at least 2 majors and 15 wins are DJ, Rory and JT. Spieth is at 3 and 13. Koepka has 4 and 8. Bryson isn't good at winning tournaments yet he has the 3rd most wins on Tour since 2017. And since his last win I'm not sure he's teed it up at 100% more than 10 or 12 times. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14181

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1 minute ago, thunderlounge said:


Here’s a thought: what if they can get it on enough screens in other countries to keep going, without being on anything in the US except streaming from a non-US site?

these dudes want US screen time.  Even the Euros want US screen time.

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