LIV tour discussion

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

51 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

3 of top 4. 12 out of 16 making the cut. To say that it wasn’t impressive or to act like the they don’t belong or aren’t of major caliber is silly. Bryson isn’t healthy but if he was (if- not necessarily when) there is no way he’s not a top 25 guy in the world. 
the LIV has at least 20 players that would fit in quite easily to the top 100 in the world. It doesn’t make major championship golf better for none of those guys to be in it. 

I counted 24 or 25 on the roster that I’d call top 100 guys, but I have to be honest 8 of them might no longer be top 100 guys but I threw them in there because they are familiar names to me and I’ve now become an old. 
I will stan for Figjam as a top 100 guy because he’s won a major and has another top 2 in the last 5 years and that’s good enough for me to be considered a top 100 guy but if you disagree I’m not going to say you are wrong. Is Stenson a top 100 guy?  I don’t know. I’m old I guess. Seems like he is but maybe not. 

[alincoln 2371]

14 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

3 of top 4. 12 out of 16 making the cut. To say that it wasn’t impressive or to act like the they don’t belong or aren’t of major caliber is silly. Bryson isn’t healthy but if he was (if- not necessarily when) there is no way he’s not a top 25 guy in the world. 

Don't worry.  You will still be able to watch your LIV buddies on the CW next year when they aren't playing the majors.  I'm not impressed by a group of 18 "world class players" that placed 4 guys in the Top 25 with 1 who was mentioned before the back 9 on Sunday when the tournament was over.  Phil's performance was incredible, Brooks took advantage of his great weather draw (-10 through the first 27 holes and +2 the last 45) and Reed backdoored another Top 10 (his 4th in the last 6 years).  I didn't see a shot by another LIV player other than Cam.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

12 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Don't worry.  You will still be able to watch your LIV buddies on the CW next year when they aren't playing the majors.  I'm not impressed by a group of 18 "world class players" that placed 4 guys in the Top 25 with 1 who was mentioned before the back 9 on Sunday when the tournament was over.  Phil's performance was incredible, Brooks took advantage of his great weather draw (-10 through the first 27 holes and +2 the last 45) and Reed backdoored another Top 10 (his 4th in the last 6 years).  I didn't see a shot by another LIV player other than Cam.

I haven’t watched any of them on the cW because I don’t really care. It’s beyond obvious they aren’t playing world class golf out there. It should be also beyond obvious that there are still some world class players out there and the golf eco system will be better when all the best players play against each other many times. 
It was the one thing that I’d hoped would come out of the schism- more compelling tournaments where all the best players come together. Now, with the PGA tour elevated events that’s where we will be when the LIV folds- which I assume will happen in the next 3 or so years. 
Other than Figjam I don’t think there’s a guy on that tour I like, and Figjam I understand why most would find him unlikeable. That being said- golf is more fun when you are rooting for Jordy to beat Reed imo. 

[thunderlounge 7815]

I’d root for Roseanne Bar to beat fatrick, or sit on his face. 

[crash_davis 23101]

9 hours ago, thunderlounge said:

or sit on his face. 

To wish that on her, you must really hate Roseanne

[Mileslong 4728]

[smwhorn 482]

Surely (insert stop calling me Shirley) someone here on Surly hangs out with Sergio wherever he hangs out in Austin.  Please just walk up to him and tell him to pay his munny.

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/sergio-garcia-only-liv-defector-who-hasnt-paid-his-ps100000-fine-dp-world-tour

[tx 3 putt 76873]

Good read

https://golf.com/news/how-liv-golf-land-cedar-ridge-tulsa/

Edited May 9, 2023 by tx 3 putt

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

Just one more reason to hate Oklahoma 

[thunderlounge 7815]

[ocugolf 1214]

Anytime you can take a tournament to the 4th best course in Tulsa, you gotta do it.

[smwhorn 482]

I'm relatively confident there are sufficient numbers of Oklahoma residents to do this to the Tulsa course:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/grange-golf-club-adelaide-liv-event-excessive-damage

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

“We have a group text for when he does something good. Haven’t heard from him in years.” 
 

haha. 

[tx 3 putt 76873]

 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

BDC in the lead after day 1.  LIV had a really good showing at the Masters. It's almost like it's not good for the game to jettison 10 of the top 50 or so players in the world from the majors.  Hell, maybe it's 10 of the top 30- I don't know.  

I get the fact that they are all assholes (other than maybe DJ whose just a goof) or at least guys who look like they are homeless (Cam Smith) and I don't miss them on my TV week in and week out, but when the contingent at a major of LIV guys narrows down to like 3 or 4 guys b/c of the world golf rankings and only guys with past championship status can play in the majors I think the golf world will be worse off.

After the PGA tour basically did all the things that the guys that went to the LIV wanted I don't see the point of this tour anymore.  Hope the experiment ends soon but if it ends soon and everyone comes back I'd argue the golf world is probably better off for it having happened.  If it doesn't fall apart and we see guys like BDC or DJ never play another major they don't have status in that won't be great. 

Hell- on some level I would miss Brooks and his smarmy ness and punchable face as a guy to root against at the majors. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Wulaw Horn

[ztejas 43411]

On 4/11/2023 at 7:34 AM, alincoln said:

Don't worry.  You will still be able to watch your LIV buddies on the CW next year when they aren't playing the majors.  I'm not impressed by a group of 18 "world class players" that placed 4 guys in the Top 25 with 1 who was mentioned before the back 9 on Sunday when the tournament was over.  Phil's performance was incredible, Brooks took advantage of his great weather draw (-10 through the first 27 holes and +2 the last 45) and Reed backdoored another Top 10 (his 4th in the last 6 years).  I didn't see a shot by another LIV player other than Cam.

Alright how we feeling now. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

On 5/18/2023 at 5:33 PM, ztejas said:

Alright how we feeling now. 

Winner (instead of 2nd)

40% of the top 5

30% of the top 10

25% of the top 20. 

how many golfers did they send like 15?  
The people acting like all those guys sick are wrong. The quality of player over there is just fine, and laying off “competitive golf” certainly hasn’t hurt any anyones ability to play. 
 

the LIV caused the tour to “get better” as it relates to the top players and there’s no more reason to exist for the LIV (from a players perspective) no, but as a fan I’m glad it all happened as these elevated events on tour are more fun, and it sort of makes the majors more interesting, but I’d just as soon see it go away now. 

[ztejas 43411]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Winner (instead of 2nd)

40% of the top 5

30% of the top 10

25% of the top 20. 

how many golfers did they send like 15?  
The people acting like all those guys sick are wrong. The quality of player over there is just fine, and laying off “competitive golf” certainly hasn’t hurt any anyones ability to play. 
 

the LIV caused the tour to “get better” as it relates to the top players and there’s no more reason to exist for the LIV (from a players perspective) no, but as a fan I’m glad it all happened as these elevated events on tour are more fun, and it sort of makes the majors more interesting, but I’d just as soon see it go away now. 

Yeah let's see if he has a retort in him. He was a real dick leading up to the '22 World Cup. 

[Hate 20106]

Damn…it appears my theory couldn’t be more wrong. I really expected these guys to lose their edges and they’ve been able to turn it on during the majors. I still don’t like them, but I have a little more respect for them than I did.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Yeah let's see if he has a retort in him. He was a real dick leading up to the '22 World Cup. 

It’s not just him it’s all of them. The funny thing is I’ve never watched a minute of LIV (ok, maybe 5) and find all the guys that are names over there unlikeable (except mickletits- I like him but I know what he is too) to me. I can’t name more than 12 guys from the top of my head I don’t think. But, the constant drumbeat of silliness about those guys being washed up losers is insane. They now have 4 of the top 10 spots in majors this year (from 4 different people) with about 10% of the entrants to the field. They are all still good. The idea golf is better if they are kept away from the majors is dumb. 

[ztejas 43411]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It’s not just him it’s all of them. The funny thing is I’ve never watched a minute of LIV (ok, maybe 5) and find all the guys that are names over there unlikeable (except mickletits- I like him but I know what he is too) to me. I can’t name more than 12 guys from the top of my head I don’t think. But, the constant drumbeat of silliness about those guys being washed up losers is insane. They now have 4 of the top 10 spots in majors this year (from 4 different people) with about 10% of the entrants to the field. They are all still good. The idea golf is better if they are kept away from the majors is dumb. 

I think its the best thing that's ever happened to golf. The PGA just had its megastar get 1-upped in majors for his career. 

LIV is one up after today. Up to the PGA to answer.

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

I don’t think anybody gives a shit if the LIV players show up or not. Some of them are good but none of them are likable, except Phil, I guess. The game doesn’t suffer when they aren’t in the field. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

1 hour ago, ConferenceRoom said:

I don’t think anybody gives a shit if the LIV players show up or not. Some of them are good but none of them are likable, except Phil, I guess. The game doesn’t suffer when they aren’t in the field. 

Sure it does. It’s like baseball before integration. (I agree none are likeable).

When you win a major it has always meant (since international travel became a thing) that you beat all the best players in the world. We are setting up a scenario where that’s no longer true. That sucks. 

[MirrOlure 14760]

I think its the best thing that's ever happened to golf. The PGA just had its megastar get 1-upped in majors for his career. 
LIV is one up after today. Up to the PGA to answer.

Explain please

[Firemans4Horn 18034]

Fuck the Saudi’s

[hpslugga 4058]

8 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Fuck the Saudi’s

That’s really all that needs to be said about it. All this flowery talk about “fair competition” and “getting together” is background noise. The LIV is just another Saudi endeavor at sportswashing. That’s all this is. It’s no different than when they forayed into WWE (John Oliver had a great piece on that) or when Qatar and Russia hosted the last two World Cups or when Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union hosted summer olympiads. This happens all the time, and it shouldn’t surprise anyone that this “tour” is both using Donald Trump courses and trying to portray itself as the proverbial USFL of golf. What does surprise me is how easily some people fall for this shit.

Edited May 22, 2023 by hpslugga

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

8 hours ago, MirrOlure said:

Explain please

Rory's majors versus Koepka's - 4 versus 5. 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

8 hours ago, MirrOlure said:

Explain please

Rory has become the face of the PGA. He has 4 majors. Koepka just won his 5th major. That, I’m sure, is his point. 
If the LIV was putting together it’s Ryder cup team it would be what:

Koepka, Reed, BDC, Mickleson, DJ, Cam Smith, Harold Varner 3 (hey- someone likable), Gooch, Grace, Sergio, Tringale & Kokrak? 
 

I’m pretty sure that team would be competitive with any team the pga tour could put up there. 3 of the top 5 at the Masters and 3 of the top 10 at the PGA would say so. But yeah, let’s banish them from the majors so we can have a string of years where those 4 tournaments a year don’t mean that you beat the worlds best. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

9 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

That’s really all that needs to be said about it. All this flowery talk about “fair competition” and “getting together” is background noise. The LIV is just another Saudi endeavor at sportswashing. That’s all this is. It’s no different than when they forayed into WWE (John Oliver had a great piece on that) or when Qatar and Russia hosted the last two World Cups or when Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union hosted summer olympiads. This happens all the time, and it shouldn’t surprise anyone that this “tour” is both using Donald Trump courses and trying to portray itself as the proverbial USFL of golf. What does surprise me is how easily some people fall for this shit.

We go along with it in every other arena, why is it golf should be different?  
Sports is mindless escapism. 

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

45 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

We go along with it in every other arena, why is it golf should be different?  
Sports is mindless escapism. 

That's up to LIV to figure out and, so far, they haven't in any way, shape, or form. Nobody gives a shit about the competition or its players. Talent doesn't even enter into the equation. 

[hpslugga 4058]

48 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

We go along with it in every other arena

In terms of corporate business fucks tolerating it in order to profit? Yeah. Greg Norman isn’t the only one that refers to the murder of Jamal Khashoggi as “a mistake.”

But in terms of what the public tolerates? Not a chance. https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/1/6/21050019/saudi-arabia-poll-unpopular

And that’s what my point was: it’s just pure confusion to speak of this “tour” as if it were the USFL of pro golf. It isn’t. This is not some admirable story about some upstart, underdog sports organization fighting uphill against the evil forces of the PGA Tour. But they certainly love to project that image. Gee, I wonder why.

 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

18 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

In terms of corporate business fucks tolerating it in order to profit? Yeah. Greg Norman isn’t the only one that refers to the murder of Jamal Khashoggi as “a mistake.”

But in terms of what the public tolerates? Not a chance. https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/1/6/21050019/saudi-arabia-poll-unpopular

And that’s what my point was: it’s just pure confusion to speak of this “tour” as if it were the USFL of pro golf. It isn’t. This is not some admirable story about some upstart, underdog sports organization fighting uphill against the evil forces of the PGA Tour. But they certainly love to project that image. Gee, I wonder why.

 

I don’t know that anyone is buying them as plucky upstart disrupters. Nobody is watching. It’s a big failure. My main points are twofold having nothing to do with the Saudis or any of that:

1) to the extent it made the tour change some things that will result in more times where the best players on tour play the same events that’s cool and good for fans. 
2) to the extent that the majors are diluted and don’t feature the best players in the world that’s bad for fans and guys legacies.  
My guess is that the thing folds before the end of 2024. 
If not I don’t think anyone is well served if you only see guys compete that are past champions in an event. The open or masters without BDC when his exemption ends in 2024 isn’t a better event than with him. The performances by the LIV guys so far in the majors show that. 
and I’m not talking about the LIV guys legacies I’m talking about the tour guys. If they win a major and 5 of the top 20 aren’t there people know that. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Wulaw Horn

[hpslugga 4058]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I don’t know that anyone is buying them as plucky upstart disrupters.

They're not, but that's not stopping the LIV and its players from playing this little game of Make Believe and Pretend in trying to foist that image on the public, hence DeChambeau's flowery and asinine comments yesterday.

 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

2 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

They're not, but that's not stopping the LIV and its players from playing this little game of Make Believe and Pretend in trying to foist that image on the public, hence DeChambeau's flowery and asinine comments yesterday.

 

Mickleson wasn’t ever wrong about anything he said about the tour or the Saudis. He said the Saudis had to be used (even though they were scary motherfuckers) because this kind of leverage is unheard of and this kind of leverage is the only thing that would force the tour to make the kind of changes he desired. He did and the tour caved or they’d have lost everyone- including Rory, Scheffler, Spieth- all of them. That accomplished, I imagine the only thing left is how to unwind the other thing and reconcile. I have no idea how that’s done. 
I didn’t listen to BdC or any of those guys afterward. Hell, I barely even watched th tournament (schools wrapping up and my baby had her birthday this weekend so was super busy with that). And, the PGA is by far the least interesting major. But, I ignore shit that’s clear shit and I imagine anything that comes out of BDC’s  mouth falls into that category. 

[WBT 20561]

18 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I don’t know that anyone is buying them as plucky upstart disrupters. Nobody is watching. It’s a big failure. My main points are twofold having nothing to do with the Saudis or any of that:

1) to the extent it made the tour change some things that will result in more times where the best players on tour play the same events that’s cool and good for fans. 
2) to the extent that the majors are diluted and don’t feature the best players in the world that’s bad for fans and guys legacies.  
My guess is that the thing folds before the end of 2024. 
If not I don’t think anyone is well served if you only see guys compete that are past champions in an event. The open or masters without BDC when his exemption ends in 2024 isn’t a better event than with him. The performances by the LIV guys so far in the majors show that. 
and I’m not talking about the LIV guys legacies I’m talking about the tour guys. If they win a major and 5 of the top 20 aren’t there people know that. 

I'm just fine with there being a deterrent to selling out for blood money even if it means I have to watch a less stacked major field.

[NoName 16351]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Rory has become the face of the PGA. He has 4 majors. Koepka just won his 5th major. That, I’m sure, is his point. 
If the LIV was putting together it’s Ryder cup team it would be what:

Koepka, Reed, BDC, Mickleson, DJ, Cam Smith, Harold Varner 3 (hey- someone likable), Gooch, Grace, Sergio, Tringale & Kokrak? 
 

I’m pretty sure that team would be competitive with any team the pga tour could put up there. 3 of the top 5 at the Masters and 3 of the top 10 at the PGA would say so. But yeah, let’s banish them from the majors so we can have a string of years where those 4 tournaments a year don’t mean that you beat the worlds best. 

data golf world rankings include LIV tour and have 2 inside the top 50 (Koepka at 17 + Cam Smith at 10), DJ at 23, Patrick Reed at 30, Mito Perrera at 32, Joaquin Nieman at 33, Charles Howell III at 39, Taylor Gooch at 42, Varner 3 at 45 and nobody else in the top 50.

https://datagolf.com/datagolf-rankings

Branden Grace is 83, Sergio is 64, Tringale is 96, Kokrak is 70

here is their Ryder Cup projections https://datagolf.com/ryder-cup/qualification

USA

EU

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

10 minutes ago, WBT said:

I'm just fine with there being a deterrent to selling out for blood money even if it means I have to watch a less stacked major field.

It’s the same blood money every political party and country in the world and most major corporations have sold out to, in addition to soccer players and the like. I’m not sure why it’s just golf players and fans that have to suffer the punishment but ok I guess?  The ratings and attendance for the WC at that cesspool in the Me that profiles much like Saudi and was engaged in their own sports washing were as good as ever. I don’t fundamentally understand why this is a golf issue but not a political, business or soccer issue. 

[blacklab 11926]

32 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

to the extent that the majors are diluted and don’t feature the best players in the world that’s bad for fans and guys legacies.  

If Kopeka wasn't there yesterday and it was Hovland and Scotty battling for first I would have enjoyed it just as much. If the 3-4 people in the top 10 weren't there? Who gives a shit? Can you name the top 10 from any of the previous 10 majors? I sure as shit can't.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

3 minutes ago, NoName said:

data golf world rankings include LIV tour and have 2 inside the top 50 (Koepka at 17 + Cam Smith at 10), DJ at 23, Patrick Reed at 30, Mito Perrera at 32, Joaquin Nieman at 33, Charles Howell III at 39, Taylor Gooch at 42, Varner 3 at 45 and nobody else in the top 50.

https://datagolf.com/datagolf-rankings

Branden Grace is 83, Sergio is 64, Tringale is 96, Kokrak is 70

here is their Ryder Cup projections https://datagolf.com/ryder-cup/qualification

USA

EU

9 top 50, 4 more top 99 and Bieber you feel about Mickleson. That’s better on paper than the internationals and maybe the Euros?  On balance parity with the Euros?  
mid they picked their best 12 against the PvA tours best 12 I’d expect the tour to go 7-3 or 6-4 in a Ryder cup type set up. 

[WBT 20561]

6 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It’s the same blood money every political party and country in the world and most major corporations have sold out to, in addition to soccer players and the like. I’m not sure why it’s just golf players and fans that have to suffer the punishment but ok I guess?  The ratings and attendance for the WC at that cesspool in the Me that profiles much like Saudi and was engaged in their own sports washing were as good as ever. I don’t fundamentally understand why this is a golf issue but not a political, business or soccer issue. 

It all sucks, I won't argue with that

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

10 minutes ago, blacklab said:

If Kopeka wasn't there yesterday and it was Hovland and Scotty battling for first I would have enjoyed it just as much. If the 3-4 people in the top 10 weren't there? Who gives a shit? Can you name the top 10 from any of the previous 10 majors? I sure as shit can't.

Like 10 for 10?   No. But I do know who has been top 10 more than once consistently and a player.    Yeah. And guys know that too. If one guy is gone everyone shrugs. If 10 guys are gone it feels tainted, probably, to some extent. 
I actually have always and always will root against Koepka so I guess I’d prefer a world where he wasn’t there. But something tells me Scotty wouldn’t find that as satisfying as besting all the top guys. 
Also it’s funny to note Hovland was as good as signed over there until the last minute. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Wulaw Horn

[Hate 20106]

If they truly are amongst the best players in the world, then they should win a major and stay eligible. Brooks just extended his stay in the majors for another 5 years. BDC, Cam Smith, DJ, and Phil are all on the clock to do so. DJ, Phil, and Sergio all have the Masters every year to play in to try to qualify for the other majors. If they can’t get it done, we’re they really amongst the best? Fuck them. I was cheering hard against Brooks. I’d rather a Euro win than that douchebag, but he’s proven that when he is healthy he can win majors.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Mickleson wasn’t ever wrong about anything he said about the tour or the Saudis. He said the Saudis had to be used (even though they were scary motherfuckers) because this kind of leverage is unheard of and this kind of leverage is the only thing that would force the tour to make the kind of changes he desired. He did and the tour caved or they’d have lost everyone- including Rory, Scheffler, Spieth- all of them. That accomplished, I imagine the only thing left is how to unwind the other thing and reconcile. I have no idea how that’s done. 
I didn’t listen to BdC or any of those guys afterward. Hell, I barely even watched th tournament (schools wrapping up and my baby had her birthday this weekend so was super busy with that). And, the PGA is by far the least interesting major. But, I ignore shit that’s clear shit and I imagine anything that comes out of BDC’s  mouth falls into that category. 

Mickelson is a slimy, insider trading, degenerate gambling asshole that pissed away his fortune. The only reason this is a thing is because he is so terrible with money. 

He's doing all of the mental gymnastics to try and convince people like you it was for the good of the tour, but it's really because he was broke.

He also fucking cheated in the 2018 US Open.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

16 minutes ago, Hate said:

If they truly are amongst the best players in the world, then they should win a major and stay eligible. Brooks just extended his stay in the majors for another 5 years. BDC, Cam Smith, DJ, and Phil are all on the clock to do so. DJ, Phil, and Sergio all have the Masters every year to play in to try to qualify for the other majors. If they can’t get it done, we’re they really amongst the best? Fuck them. I was cheering hard against Brooks. I’d rather a Euro win than that douchebag, but he’s proven that when he is healthy he can win majors.

If that was the standard then a shitload of guys wouldn’t be eligible. There’s no serious path to participation without OWGR for any but a handful (less than a dozen). 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

11 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Mickelson is a slimy, insider trading, degenerate gambling asshole that pissed away his fortune. The only reason this is a thing is because he is so terrible with money. 

He's doing all of the mental gymnastics to try and convince people like you it was for the good of the tour, but it's really because he was broke.

He also fucking cheated in the 2018 US Open.

I said I know what Mickleson is. He’s also a two faced Eddie Haskell on top of everything else you wrote being true.  He’s also into the hot wife thing and in an open marriage I’ve been told- so he’d fit in really well around here.  That doesn’t mean he was wrong about anything he said. I never believed it was about the good of the tour- it was always selfishly about what was good for him. It just so happened that what he was pushing for made sense and the tour did it, other stars benefited, fans will benefit from the stronger and deeper fields. But there was zero altruism involved, I’m well aware of that. 
look I played golf at a high level. I was teammates in high school with a guy that won on tour.  I’m really good friends with a guy that kicked around mini tours and played at a high level and knows a ton of these guys and even more of their caddy’s and the like. I’m not naive about any of this. I’m sure there are guys that are more plugged in than me on here, because Surly is an amazing fucking place with someone that knows a lot about anything happening in the world, but not a lot on here about this particular type of thing. None of those guys that went over were well liked and they all had their reasons. 
but, the general consensus around tour, from what I’ve been told and read between the lines is that this was and is a vehicle where the stars get their money and status and prestige. Exams of this other outlet and they are able to use that as a club to keep the rank and file in line. Which is actually good for the fan experience in the game as 95% of all fans are star fuckers and eve Rey one roots for golfs version of the Yankees and lakers and nobody wants the upstart to take down big tournaments. There’s no fanbase rooting for small market teams. It’s all tiger, Rory, Phil, DJ, Spieth, Scotty etc. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Wulaw Horn

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

The stars make the tour, but individual tournaments are a different animal. Look at the love Block received this week, or the aggy at the Masters. 

Also some of those small market teams turn into stars, like Max Homa and Tom Kim. Hell Scottie wasn't a star until last year, Rahm really didn't break through until three years ago.

Yeah Bryson and Cam were in the top 10, but so were Kurt Kitayama, and Sepp Straka, who both respectively finished better than their LIV counterparts. 

I agree that nobody tunes in to see JJ Spaun tee it up, but then again I don't really want to see Sergio or Phil dink it around any more either.

The only old guard star I would watch regardless of how he is playing is Tiger, but unfortunately that may be over as well.

 

[ocugolf 1214]

Golf media is basically unbearable right now.  The old guard PGA Tour with all of their history and LIV led by the most unlikable people in the sport, while funded by a dictatorship.  The LIV golf thing is stupid.  Music playing, concerts, shotgun starts, and team competition.  Their TV is unwatchable (other than they do show more shots). I would bet Greg Norman couldn't name all twelve team names.  If you want to see 20 of the top 150 golfers in the world tee it up on what comes down to an exhibition, for all means, go for it.  The other 28 are no better or worse than JJ Spaun.

Meanwhile, the PGA Tour could have stopped this a long time ago.  They got cocky and didn't think Norman would get the Saudi backing, so they basically blew it off.  I'm friends with several of the JJ Spaun guys on tour.  They aren't happy with how Monahan handled LIV from the beginning, how he reacted with the new elevated events, etc.  Several had lower level LIV deals and said no and are regretting it.  The PGA broadcast is getting stale or has been for about 20 years.  So, I can see the appeal to the random viewer for LIV.  

LIV does well by keeping their parties to weeks where the Tour isn't playing elevated events for the most part.  Problem is that you have to be able to and want to watch it.  Brooks winning at Oak Hill is the best thing to happen to LIV.  Still, most people don't have the CW, don't know that they have the CW, or have to download something on devises to be able to watch.  They are only getting the hardcore fans.  Someone compared LIV Golf to AEW Wrestling.  Both are going up against rivals with a century of tradition.  Both promised "Golf but LOUDER" and "sports based presentation".  While not owned by the Saudi fund, AEW is owned by the son of the guy who owns the Jaguars.  So, both have more money than the traditional rivals.  AEW started out on TBS with 1.2 million people +/- a few.  4 years later, they get about 850k.  It's just very hard to break through against tradition.  Ask anyone in time square to name 10 professional golfers and about 95% would have less than 2 LIV players.  Same with professional wrestling.  

I just want the Tour and LIV to make up.  "Suspend" guys for a while, give players and their brand access to their shots and coverage to be able to promote themselves, Make certain PGA Tour events mandatory.  If LIV makes developmental tour/have relegation like European soccer, watch out.  They can poach all of the college kids with no ties or prior relationship with the Tour.  

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

6 hours ago, ocugolf said:

Golf media is basically unbearable right now.  The old guard PGA Tour with all of their history and LIV led by the most unlikable people in the sport, while funded by a dictatorship.  The LIV golf thing is stupid.  Music playing, concerts, shotgun starts, and team competition.  Their TV is unwatchable (other than they do show more shots). I would bet Greg Norman couldn't name all twelve team names.  If you want to see 20 of the top 150 golfers in the world tee it up on what comes down to an exhibition, for all means, go for it.  The other 28 are no better or worse than JJ Spaun.

Meanwhile, the PGA Tour could have stopped this a long time ago.  They got cocky and didn't think Norman would get the Saudi backing, so they basically blew it off.  I'm friends with several of the JJ Spaun guys on tour.  They aren't happy with how Monahan handled LIV from the beginning, how he reacted with the new elevated events, etc.  Several had lower level LIV deals and said no and are regretting it.  The PGA broadcast is getting stale or has been for about 20 years.  So, I can see the appeal to the random viewer for LIV.  

LIV does well by keeping their parties to weeks where the Tour isn't playing elevated events for the most part.  Problem is that you have to be able to and want to watch it.  Brooks winning at Oak Hill is the best thing to happen to LIV.  Still, most people don't have the CW, don't know that they have the CW, or have to download something on devises to be able to watch.  They are only getting the hardcore fans.  Someone compared LIV Golf to AEW Wrestling.  Both are going up against rivals with a century of tradition.  Both promised "Golf but LOUDER" and "sports based presentation".  While not owned by the Saudi fund, AEW is owned by the son of the guy who owns the Jaguars.  So, both have more money than the traditional rivals.  AEW started out on TBS with 1.2 million people +/- a few.  4 years later, they get about 850k.  It's just very hard to break through against tradition.  Ask anyone in time square to name 10 professional golfers and about 95% would have less than 2 LIV players.  Same with professional wrestling.  

I just want the Tour and LIV to make up.  "Suspend" guys for a while, give players and their brand access to their shots and coverage to be able to promote themselves, Make certain PGA Tour events mandatory.  If LIV makes developmental tour/have relegation like European soccer, watch out.  They can poach all of the college kids with no ties or prior relationship with the Tour.  

I agree with much/most of this but think you are dead wrong about college players poached being a thing. The tour is the star making vehicle, nobody knows the college guys and if they go to the LIV that will be how it stays. E Rey bring else was interesting and/or dead bang on imo. 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

If by suspend you mean cut off their dominant hand, then sure I'm cool letting them back in.

[ocugolf 1214]

24 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I agree with much/most of this but think you are dead wrong about college players poached being a thing. The tour is the star making vehicle, nobody knows the college guys and if they go to the LIV that will be how it stays. E Rey bring else was interesting and/or dead bang on imo. 

Hey college kid, want 10 million bucks for 3 years? Then the PGA tour will wake up and let everyone play. Oh, you won’t have to face any suspension because you never were a member. Or…… you can go to Q school to go grind it on the Korn Ferry and hope to get to the real tour in the three years you could have played against some of the best in the world with 10 million plus whatever you make during the 3 years. I know what 21 year old me would have done. I mean I’d give the kid from Tech that. He’s already a star and he hasn’t teed it up as a pro.