LIV tour discussion

[ocugolf 1214]

And I know PGA U is a thing. A good thing. A much needed thing. Removing direct access to the tour via q school is among the worst decision Monahan did

[ocugolf 1214]

16 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

If by suspend you mean cut off their dominant hand, then sure I'm cool letting them back in.

I know a LIV player that has been told he can return now for no suspension. He wasn’t one in the lawsuit or bashing the tour online. 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

10 minutes ago, ocugolf said:

I know a LIV player that has been told he can return now for no suspension. He wasn’t one in the lawsuit or bashing the tour online. 

Oh I have no idea what the tour will do, but for me they need to pay their pound of flesh. 

Plus who really wants any of them back, except for maybe DJ or Cam?

Phil always a douchebag now tainted goods definitely.

Bryson, Reed, Sergio, no take backs, you keep the assholes.

Varner, Mito, and the other no names, eh, I'd rather watch JJ Spaun.

[Revolution512 1487]

I thought Claude Harmon’s comments were pretty spot on. It’s fucking golf, the LIV guys weren’t going to forget how to play. I don’t give a shit where the money comes from. Monahan fucked this up and misread the situation. He’s also losing his united front little by little. 

[thunderlounge 7813]

13 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Oh I have no idea what the tour will do, but for me they need to pay their pound of flesh. 

Plus who really wants any of them back, except for maybe DJ or Cam?

Phil always a douchebag now tainted goods definitely.

Bryson, Reed, Sergio, no take backs, you keep the assholes.

Varner, Mito, and the other no names, eh, I'd rather watch JJ Spaun.

I was with you up to HV3. I like him, even though he took the money. What he’s been doing, and has continued to do and grow off the course with his resources has been commendable.

Maybe he’s a dick away from it all, but I don’t get that feeling.

 

I’d take Cam Smith back, but more for my personal amusement at the Dirté he brings to it. 😂

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

15 hours ago, ocugolf said:

Hey college kid, want 10 million bucks for 3 years? Then the PGA tour will wake up and let everyone play. Oh, you won’t have to face any suspension because you never were a member. Or…… you can go to Q school to go grind it on the Korn Ferry and hope to get to the real tour in the three years you could have played against some of the best in the world with 10 million plus whatever you make during the 3 years. I know what 21 year old me would have done. I mean I’d give the kid from Tech that. He’s already a star and he hasn’t teed it up as a pro.

OH I fully understand why the college kid would do it. What I'm saying is that it doesn't help the LIV and doesn't hurt the pga tour as nobody knows/cares who the college kids are and how good they are until they get on tour and start winning. And a 23 year old winning a bunch of LIV tournaments won't turn that guy into a star to the general public- that only happens on tour.  

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

14 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

I thought Claude Harmon’s comments were pretty spot on. It’s fucking golf, the LIV guys weren’t going to forget how to play. I don’t give a shit where the money comes from. Monahan fucked this up and misread the situation. He’s also losing his united front little by little. 

Yep. This is the part that I always thought was so stupid. Well, that and golfers doing what soccer players, politicians and corporations do are wrong or worse than hitler. Or, on the other side golfers telling me that they had to take the Saudi money to have fun with their kids or grow the game of golf or something was really stupid too.  But, most of all, the idea that BDC, Reed, Brooks, DJ and a couple others aren't still world class golfers that need to be in majors if you want to, you know, have fields of the best players in the world. Which I like for majors for sure.  

[Hate 20106]

And they won’t have access to the majors either unless they win one of the amateur tournaments before they turn pro. I have no idea who any college golfers are until UT makes it to the championship. And even then I don’t remember them very well. If they constraint to the LIV tour, I’ll never hear of them again.

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

9 minutes ago, Hate said:

And they won’t have access to the majors either unless they win one of the amateur tournaments before they turn pro. I have no idea who any college golfers are until UT makes it to the championship. And even then I don’t remember them very well. If they constraint to the LIV tour, I’ll never hear of them again.

Yep.  And even winning the AM they won't be able to play in the majors once they go pro. I mean- I guess the LIV could sign the aggy that was in contention sort of on the weekend at the Masters but is that moving the needle for anyone?  

Signing the best college players is a way to let hard core golf nerds know you are serious about quality of play but that's not a winning strategy for the LIV. There is no there there.

Their best chance was for the PGA tour not to cave to the stars and steadily chip away at top 10/top 20 players.  Guys like Rory and Spieth (or TIger) could have really almost ended it. Once the tour gave those guys what they wanted with prize money, elevated fields and all the other stuff that was never going to happen. It's just a matter of time now, and I don't think it matters how many majors are won by the LIV guys.  Other than this- that should stop the stupid braying about how it's inferior golfers over there.  That was always dumb. But it doesn't help the LIV at all in trying to overtake the pga tour.  

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

The golf on the Liv tour is definitely inferior top to bottom. Hell they signed Chase Koepka for gods sake. They have a couple of very good golfers and a bunch of guys that used to be good and have name recognition.

They are the Pac12 of golf tours (before the California exodus)

[Pam Cummings 9639]

Good for Koepka. It didn't change my attitude one bit about liv. I still won't watch that dumb shit.

[Wally Fairway 5539]

54 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yep.  And even winning the AM they won't be able to play in the majors once they go pro. I mean- I guess the LIV could sign the aggy that was in contention sort of on the weekend at the Masters but is that moving the needle for anyone?  

Signing the best college players is a way to let hard core golf nerds know you are serious about quality of play but that's not a winning strategy for the LIV. There is no there there.

This is all true - I know because I only check the LIV event leaderboard to see how James Piot is doing. 
At this point you should be asking yourself - who is James Piot?

And that is a great question, so let me tell you - he is a former Michigan State golfer who won the US Am at Oakmont in 2021. Played in the Masters and US Open with the invites that go along with the Am title; then jumped to LIV because guaranteed money. Not sure if it turns out to be the best decision, but he got paid and he hasn't been dropped from the 48 man roster. 
But nobody knows who he is now, and won't unless he makes it to the PGA tour. I am interested to see if there is a path to the Tour for someone like Piot who never had standing. 

[ocugolf 1214]

Ok. Take the number 6 player in the PGA U,  he’s getting starts on the Korn Ferry and Monday qualifying. Best case he Monday’s in to a tour event and wins or makes enough money to get called up. The rest are fighting it where the winners purse is 100k or so.  Play well enough for a year, you’ll get some starts on the PGA Tour but not the elevated events the next year. So you are two years in. The amount of young players that keep their cards the first year is minute. Fuck your back up like Zalatoris? Sorry. Hope you can get back to form soon. So you can roll that dice.

Or… you go play LIV U for say 1 million to the winner and whatever their signing bonus is. You’re on a team, as lame as that concept is, for 3 years. Learn how to travel world wide. Have almost unlimited access to pick the brains of Phil, Cam, DJ, Brooks, etc. Fly private. Etc.

I obviously see both sides. I love the Tour. I want it to win out. If 3-5 of those kids turn into someone on the LIV, that would definitely hurt the Tour going forward. 

[thunderlounge 7813]

59 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

But nobody knows who he is now, and won't unless he makes it to the PGA tour. I am interested to see if there is a path to the Tour for someone like Piot who never had standing. 

This is overall an interesting aspect.

I guess the question is whether you want to be famous, or rich.

Me personally, I could see someone coming out of college hot, take the LIV money, play a few years, and never work again. If I’m being honest, that’s what I would pick. Of course you have to have your head square on your shoulders, and at that age I’m not sure how many can actually conceptualize that far off.

Once set, maybe try the other route. However it wouldn’t be something out of need.

The real kicker though is in another year or two when a lot of the free money goes away. That could make it more difficult to achieve.

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

3 hours ago, ocugolf said:

Ok. Take the number 6 player in the PGA U,  he’s getting starts on the Korn Ferry and Monday qualifying. Best case he Monday’s in to a tour event and wins or makes enough money to get called up. The rest are fighting it where the winners purse is 100k or so.  Play well enough for a year, you’ll get some starts on the PGA Tour but not the elevated events the next year. So you are two years in. The amount of young players that keep their cards the first year is minute. Fuck your back up like Zalatoris? Sorry. Hope you can get back to form soon. So you can roll that dice.

Or… you go play LIV U for say 1 million to the winner and whatever their signing bonus is. You’re on a team, as lame as that concept is, for 3 years. Learn how to travel world wide. Have almost unlimited access to pick the brains of Phil, Cam, DJ, Brooks, etc. Fly private. Etc.

I obviously see both sides. I love the Tour. I want it to win out. If 3-5 of those kids turn into someone on the LIV, that would definitely hurt the Tour going forward. 

Sure. It's great for the golfer. How does that help the LIV in any way?  How many people are turning in to watch former college players they have never heard of?

[ocugolf 1214]

15 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Sure. It's great for the golfer. How does that help the LIV in any way?  How many people are turning in to watch former college players they have never heard of?

To be fair, nobody is watching the LIV anyway. All just hypotheticals. If your reasoning is that they won’t draw viewers, there’s literally nobody other than Eldrick Woods that can move that needle. (Barring a mass exodus that blows the PGA Tour up). I mean they are trying to get Anthony Kim. I’d watch that for about 30 minutes for nostalgic purposes if and it’s a big if I can find the CW.

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

4 minutes ago, ocugolf said:

To be fair, nobody is watching the LIV anyway. All just hypotheticals. If your reasoning is that they won’t draw viewers, there’s literally nobody other than Eldrick Woods that can move that needle. (Barring a mass exodus that blows the PGA Tour up). I mean they are trying to get Anthony Kim. I’d watch that for about 30 minutes for nostalgic purposes if and it’s a big if I can find the CW.

That's fair.  But if they want to survive they have to chip away at the name players.  Yes, Eldrick would be a huge get. The thing that sucks about that is they could give him a cart and he could go out there and play 3 days, 12 times a year and then maybe at the majors and it would be awesome. I'd love to see it. You could have a team of him, Mickletits, BDC and go grab another old dude that Tiger likes and that actually might be pretty interesting while not messing with the golf landscape all that much. I'd tune in.  

I don't think Tiger is necessary though- I think if you got any two of the 5 of Jordan, Scheffler, Rahm, Rory & Tony Finau (I might count Xander or Hovland in this Finau tier- but you can't count 2 of those guys as a big pull that would make a really big statement and might actually make it conceivable that the LIV could win out over the tour in the long run.  But absent 2 guys like that moving or 10 guys like: Homa, Burns, Cantlay, Hovland, Moirkawa, Fitzpatrick, Cam Young, Xander and Hovland going (which wouldn't think there would be enough money to move over 10 stars that aren't superstars) the LIV is dead man walking.