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Narcan Librarians! Expected to save addicts!

Nicole44

By Nicole44
in Daily Texan

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smuggs

smuggs 9,353

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2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

The ever powerful librarian union has not spoken up on this yet. 

I don't see an issue with this. Issue it to university professors, dorm RA's, bouncers. 

Let's not forget the cobblers and haberdashers.

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22,078

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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

What makes you think this?  

Anytime someone attempts to save a life and fails, or does it too slowly, there's a potential, probably shitty, lawsuit.  Many times, good samaritan laws will protect them.

There's nothing in this that changes that status quo.

I hope so. Btw, as a forever addict to alcohol (I’ve been sober for a while) I understand. Save or not to save…

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Deej

Deej 76,944

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1 hour ago, Nicole44 said:

My friend gave narcan to someone he has given it multiple times before. At least four times. What is the point? 
 

@Js1 please don’t hate on me. 
 

"This is TWICE in two days that a chick has OD'd on me!"

"Well, do you think this means that maybe ya oughta think about getting some new shit? Whaddya ya think?"

 

colonelfhd997bgn_robert_ridgely_001.jpg

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Mole

Mole 4,333

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Setting aside any concerns for the homeless and only thinking about the librarians, which scenario is a worse day for a beleaguered librarian:

1. a homeless person OD’d and died in the romance section and interrupted the childrens craft day.

2. a homeless person OD’d and was saved by a heroic librarian during the now interrupted reptile demonstration.

Given a choice between someone dying at my work or me saving them, I’m anti body bag.

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9,193

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1 hour ago, Nicole44 said:

So that person can do it again and again? Known addicts are known addicts around my friend’s world. He has saved many of them. One died. Now there seems to be a legal issue.

What legal issue are you talking about? 

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Ellellelle

Ellellelle 314

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I keep narcan (not nasal) because of the population I work with, and we keep it stocked at work. It's really easy to train to administer and libraries are often places where folks can go get some to keep at home. For addicts especially, it's a good idea to have around when you or your buddy ODs. Nasal narcan is not as effective as a good ol shot in the muscle though.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

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usmc0331horn

usmc0331horn 967

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1 hour ago, Nicole44 said:

I’m not an asshole and you know this. Just got off a call from a friend of mine (saving the same person over and over) and now there is some legal liability? 

That friend's wife choking at a wedding I gave the heimlich to should have just been left to die imo. Not my problem.

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Your Mom

Your Mom 4,853

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I know exactly one heroin addict that I’m aware of. This person has been narcan’ed back to life multiple times. He is an absent deadbeat dad, a wife beater, and regularly commits life-threatening level violence only to serve a little time and get out early for the overcrowded prisons where he lives. He’s had 5 DUI’s and served a total of 28 days in jail after the last one, mostly served on weekends only.  He has one adult child who is also an addict and a child molester.  He also has one minor child with whom he only gets supervised visits yet still regularly manages to abuse emotionally. He is employed and enabled by his rich parents. Drivers license suspensions, garnered paychecks, criminal records etc, have zero effect on him. He is pure garbage and if I had the narcan in my hands while he OD’d I rather watch him die. 
 

I fully acknowledge that we can’t assume all addicts are like this guy.  But if that’s the only type of addict you have experience with I can see how it takes a little effort to get there. 

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Deej

Deej 76,944

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If you feel badly for the librarians, Nicole, think about Immamac. He has to save you from the pictures you post of yourself. Should he have to shoulder that responsibility? Have you thought of that, huh? Have you?

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22,078

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8 minutes ago, Deej said:

If you feel badly for the librarians, Nicole, think about Immamac. He has to save you from the pictures you post of yourself. Should he have to shoulder that responsibility? Have you thought of that, huh? Have you?

Damn thread/ you win! I’m sorry you saw all the nekkid!

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Degenerate Gardner

Degenerate Gardner 4,085

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2 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I'll say it.  I have very little sympathy for that cohort. 

Anybody that willingly injects shit into their body has already made a big decision. 

There are predictable consequences to people's decisions.

You’re not wrong if it’s cut and dry and somehow you’re privy to a person’s full bio. The reality is that folks can start injecting as kids and with parents, depending on how swell home life is (if any). You just. Don’t. Know.

I’m on board with people being accountable for bad decisions in the abstract. It’s the implicit and imperfect judgement of who’s worthy that throws a messy wrench in the works. There but for the grace of Jah go I and I.

Edited by Degenerate Gardner
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,544

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8 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

You’re not wrong if it’s cut and dry, and somehow you’re privy to a person’s full bio. Folks can start injecting as kids and with parents, depending on how swell home life is (if any). I’m on board with people being accountable for bad decisions in the abstract. It’s the implicit and imperfect judgement of who’s worthy that throws a messy wrench in the works. There but for the grace of Jah go I and I.

I think what you often have with junkies is people who got addicted to pain pills, first.  That happened even before Oxycontin and related shit.  Or they started snorting it and once they were way strung out began to inject it.  At that point, a lot of the "choice" was removed.

And, today's version got there through pills or fentanyl most likely.  Regardless, not many people using heroin start out injecting it.

And, I think among the addict community, injection of heroin, or meth for that matter, is considered something of a crossing.  But people are usually pretty far gone by the time the needle comes into it.

Still, use of illegal drugs in any form is a bit less innocent and more volitional than a man takes a drink, the drink takes a drink, and the drink takes the man.  But, such moralizing is ultimately useless.

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ztejas

ztejas 43,545

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2 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I'll say it.  I have very little sympathy for that cohort. 

Anybody that willingly injects shit into their body has already made a big decision. 

There are predictable consequences to people's decisions.

You don't have to inject shit into your body to OD on fentanyl. 

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scottsins

scottsins 1,975

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There is so much wrong with this. 
The very idea that a public library is a great place for homeless junkies to hang out, for starts.
Then the idea that a librarian should be tasked with saving the homeless junkies from the consequences of their own actions.
Hopefully, the librarians are indemnified for any adverse outcomes with respect to said homeless junkies.

Of course they are, just like I’m not legally liable for breaking someone’s ribs when performing CPR on them. This thread is just fucking bizarre.
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ztejas

ztejas 43,545

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3 minutes ago, Deej said:

Yeah, this thread is kinda fucked up. A bunch of folks would have been OK if a librarian with Narcan had been there for Jake. A homeless person, not so much. 

Yeah but Jake had been injecting stuff into his body for years. 

Oh wait. 

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22,078

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37 minutes ago, scottsins said:


Of course they are, just like I’m not legally liable for breaking someone’s ribs when performing CPR on them. This thread is just fucking bizarre.

It’s not fucking bizarre. People sue for all kinds of reasons. People sue bc they got they cant swallow a piece  of food and someone saved their ass.And people call 911 bc McDonald’s runs out of happy meals or what the fuck people think is that necessary at a fucking fast food joint. 
 

what I was pointing out is that my friend, a librarian, shouldn’t be tasked with saving people over and over and over again. That is not his job. It is not. I guess it’s one of the perks! Habitual homeless users don’t pass out in front hospitals or police stations. They want to continue to use and loiter. I love that most 7/11’s play loud shit music after hours. So people move the fuck on. They pick libraries for other reasons. People who use can’t be put up in a traditional homeless housing situation bc they use. Would you have them committed to an institution for life? They’ve made a choice. Let them accept wtf they have chosen. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,544

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7 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

It’s not fucking bizarre. People sue for all kinds of reasons. People sue bc they got they cant swallow a pice of food and someone saved their ass .And people call 911 bc McDonald’s runs out of happy meals or what the fuck people think is that necessary at a fucking fast food joint. 
 

what I was pointing out as that my friend, a librarian, shouldn’t be tasked with saving people over and over and over again. That is not his job. It is not. I guess it’s one of the perks! They don’t pass out in front hospitals or police stations. They want to continue to use and loiter. I love that most 7/11’s play loud shit music after hours. So people move the fuck on. They pick libraries for other reasons. 

Well, in Virginia, there is a pretty stiff Good Samaritan law that exempts good-faith "aiders" from any liability.  https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title8.01/chapter3/section8.01-225/  That's going to cut off most lawsuits at the knees.

Also, it's a little unclear to me whether this Narcan is "publicly accessible" at some libraries, and maybe "ask the librarian" at others.  Nonetheless, I'm not sure it imposes any duty, even implied, on the librarian, as opposed to a janitor, a volunteer, or a bystander/patron to do anything.  I'm thinking if I am even the head librarian and I detect that some turd may be OD'ing in the periodicals section, I'd rather have some Narcan than just sit there with my thumb up my ass while EMS is en route.

If such a thing makes its way to Texas, we also have a Good Samaritan law, and part of it extends explicitly to those who administer or fail to administer Narcan or other opioid antagonists.  https://www.dshs.texas.gov/legislative/2018-Reports/DSHS_SC-Opioid_Good-Samaritan-Laws.pdf

This is pretty much a nothingburger, except that it may save a few lives.

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FartingMonk

FartingMonk 3,608

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17 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

It’s not fucking bizarre. People sue for all kinds of reasons. People sue bc they got they cant swallow a piece  of food and someone saved their ass.And people call 911 bc McDonald’s runs out of happy meals or what the fuck people think is that necessary at a fucking fast food joint. 
 

what I was pointing out is that my friend, a librarian, shouldn’t be tasked with saving people over and over and over again. That is not his job. It is not. I guess it’s one of the perks! Habitual homeless users don’t pass out in front hospitals or police stations. They want to continue to use and loiter. I love that most 7/11’s play loud shit music after hours. So people move the fuck on. They pick libraries for other reasons. People who use can’t be put up in a traditional homeless housing situation bc they use. Would you have them committed to an institution for life? They’ve made a choice. Let them accept wtf they have chosen. 

So you're telling me since the return to work for city employees post covid your librarian friend working a 40 hour week during mostly daylight hours has had to narcan the same dude multiple times at said library?  

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22,078

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1 minute ago, FartingMonk said:

So you're telling me since the return to work for city employees post covid your librarian friend working a 40 hour week during mostly daylight hours has had to narcan the same dude multiple times at said library?  

Yes. It’s an almost weekly/monthly deal with some of these people. And it’s been with the same guy four times in the span of 6 months. https://americanlibrariesmagazine.org/2020/06/01/narcan-or-no-libraries-naloxone/
 

if you care to reasons why some libraries to this day don’t stock up there are reasons (multiple suppliers of the drug, liability after drug is administered and so on…) it’s a huge deal. 

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Js1

Js1 85,600

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1 hour ago, Deej said:

Yeah, this thread is kinda fucked up. A bunch of folks would have been OK if a librarian with Narcan had been there for Jake. A homeless person, not so much. 

That’s bc they don’t see the homeless as “people” 

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Hermanator

Hermanator 7,178

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7 hours ago, Foosters said:

Do you have a different proposal to stop addicts from OD'ing in libraries?

Yes, just like other countries have successfully implemented gun violence measures that work much better than arming teachers, they have also done things that work in this area too that the USA refuses to model. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/07/645609248/whats-the-evidence-that-supervised-drug-injection-sites-save-lives

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