Narcan Librarians! Expected to save addicts!

[Homercles 10206]

13 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Yes, just like other countries have successfully implemented gun violence measures that work much better than arming teachers, they have also done things that work in this area too that the USA refuses to model. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/07/645609248/whats-the-evidence-that-supervised-drug-injection-sites-save-lives

Just need a Hamsterdam…got dat pandemic! Pandemic!  Yellow tops yo!

[Prepuce of Doom 21080]

6 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

 

The very idea that a public library is a great place for homeless junkies to hang out, for starts.

Public libraries are for everyone.

Librarians generally feel pretty strongly about this, especially those who work in a public library. 

[Mole 4333]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think what you often have with junkies is people who got addicted to pain pills, first. 

I spent years volunteering with an addiction recovery ministry. The hurt back/prescribed pain meds/shopping doctors/lost family/life out of control progression was very common. You start out following doctor’s orders and the next thing you know, you’ve lost everything. Sometimes, the only difference between me and a junkie is circumstances.

[Gatorubet 30246]

7 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

So librarians like my friend are tasked with that bullshit? They are understaffed and now are supposed to take care of addicts

All that post-inhale sneezing is gonna drive those librarians nuts. 

[Surlymermaid 444]

Now do arming teachers! We also feel this is not in our job description.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[clapclapclap 9000]

8 hours ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

go fuck yourself in the face...

Dang, that's sexual harassment.

"Show us your narcans" is also unacceptable.  Don't post that.

 

[DalTxHornFan 3106]

1 hour ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

Public libraries are for everyone.

Librarians generally feel pretty strongly about this, especially those who work in a public library. 

So we have heard.

Local man charged with exposing self, masturbating at public library

https://local12.com/newsletter-daily/cincinnati-ohio-man-charged-exposing-self-masturbating-public-library-robert-mcclure-public-indecency-arrest-delhi

[clapclapclap 9000]

^^^ At the Drag Queen Story Hour or no?

[Prepuce of Doom 21080]

5 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

So we have heard.

Local man charged with exposing self, masturbating at public library

https://local12.com/newsletter-daily/cincinnati-ohio-man-charged-exposing-self-masturbating-public-library-robert-mcclure-public-indecency-arrest-delhi

[ztejas 43479]

1 hour ago, Mole said:

Sometimes, the only difference between me and a junkie is circumstances.

Maybe. Opiates can definitely be problematic even for people without addictive personalities. But some people just don't like them or can quit the habit more easily. 

[DalTxHornFan 3106]

5 hours ago, Deej said:

Yeah, this thread is kinda fucked up. A bunch of folks would have been OK if a librarian with Narcan had been there for Jake. A homeless person, not so much. 

Not so much.  As I understood it, Jake thought that he was taking an Adderall pill.  Prior to all of this Fentanyl shit, I would have never dreamed that something that I smoked or took in pill form would have been life threatening.  I did plenty of stuff back in the day, but I drew the line at any injections.

Edited June 17, 2022 by DalTxHornFan

[Deej 76831]

Again, with fentanyl everywhere, you don't know that people needing narcan, including homeless people, necessarily injected something. But keep being judgemental based on socio-economic status. 

[Willfully Horn 8031]

11 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I'll say it.  I have very little sympathy for that cohort. 

Anybody that willingly injects shit into their body has already made a big decision. 

There are predictable consequences to people's decisions.

Your decisions affect more people than just your own self: parents, spouses, children, extended family, friends, coworkers, fellow congregants, neighbors, et al et al. Not surprised you want to frame the issue in black and white. Us versus them.

Some myopic thinkers are addicts. What’s your excuse?

Edited June 17, 2022 by Willfully Horn

[956 Worldwide 34715]

8 hours ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

Public libraries are for everyone.

Librarians generally feel pretty strongly about this, especially those who work in a public library. 

The issue with this approach is that any space that becomes a space for junkies nodding off, aggressive panhandlers, drunkenness, and similar behavior is no longer a space for “everyone.”  It’s a space for junkies and drunks. Homelessness isn’t an issue, but people under the influence absolutely shouldn’t be allowed in libraries.

Some people swing to hard towards cruelty. But refusing to enforce social contracts both ways is literally why we can’t have nice things.

[TwiceHorn 31497]

6 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Not so much.  As I understood it, Jake thought that he was taking an Adderall pill.  Prior to all of this Fentanyl shit, I would have never dreamed that something that I smoked or took in pill form would have been life threatening.  I did plenty of stuff back in the day, but I drew the line at any injections.

But, by taking a drink, or doing any kind of "illegal" drug, you are taking the chance that you will lose control of it, not to mention adulterated stuff.

Very few people, I believe, begin by injecting drugs.  That's an end-stage behavior.

Besides drinking, I didn't do anything more than smoke a little pot.  I knew fairly early on that I had my hands full with booze.  But I can't take any "moral credit" for that.  There, but for the grace of God, go I.  Take away my booze, make other shit available, who knows where I end up.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

I can speak with some secondhand experience of a public library with more than a few incidents. Their branch has an incident book, the others have a few pages for the year. 

Scabies guy was arguably more of a pain in the ass than the near death outside in the parking lot. Bat in foyer was another highlight. Tinfoil hat guy is real and he comes by every once in a while. After he accused a librarian of hacking his stuff he was told/asked to take a vacation for a bit and any more problems would be detrimental to his privileges. That's the real hammer. Just like around here. Be too much of a shithead and you're gonna get the boot. If you push it, the cops are willing to escort you out for trespassing.

They would still rather work at this branch than contend with the Karens at the other ones. Drug addled homeless person, tinfoil hat guy, and other assorted randos over entitled bitches.

Edited June 17, 2022 by cactusflinthead

[Js1 85420]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Homelessness isn’t an issue, but people under the influence absolutely shouldn’t be allowed in libraries.

 

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

17 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

I hope so. Btw, as a forever addict to alcohol (I’ve been sober for a while) I understand. Save or not to save…

i dunno....maybe someone should've left you to drown in your own vomit instead of rolling your over on your side after your third blackout drunk and vomit-fest.  

i say this as someone who was prescribed Vicodin for a migraine, who took as prescribed, but had the door kicked in to my own hell of addiction, who checked out of rehab 8.5 years later with all that i had left in the world: a dufflebag of clothes and 2 pair of shoes, one of which were shower flip-flops, having lost my family, innumerable friends, my home and my vocation.  that was a 11.5 years ago, and since then i've managed to rebuild a damn good life worth living surrounded by friends, family and colleagues, having given a second chance at everything, including my career, where i've reached heights that i never even dreamed of at the beginning.   fuck...this recovering dope fiend flies on an Embraer 300 Phenom now when i do business, and some pleasure, trips.

i'm here because of second, third, fourth, fifth...infinite chances that were given to me, including overdoses.  and i thank god for those who, disgusted as though they may have been, never turned away.  and for strangers who identified with my plight and had the love and empathy to frankly rescue and guide when i was at my sickest.  

this shit the junkie in the library is dealing with is a disease, a fucking nightmare of a disease, and s/he isn't responsible for having this particular disease anymore than the Type 1 diabetic is responsible for having diabetes .  they are, however, responsible for their recovery, but they can't get there without help...ALL types of help.  including having Narcan administered.

to say "that's their choice, their consequences" and use death as a consequence of choice implies addiction is a moral issue, one of character.  and that's ignorant and callous as fuck, as well as immoral per se.

fucking hell, man.  what's happened to simple, human decency?

 

[Homercles 10206]

Yeah I’m sure the millions of people who were prescribed legal opioids that triggered latent addiction pathways in their brain ‘choose’ to battle it until they have nothing left.  I’ll bet the bulk of them were walking down the street one day, stopped in the street and said to themselves “you know what I haven’t tried yet?  Heroin.  That’s the ticket”.  
 

Not sure how some people seem to fail at defaulting to humbleness, humanity and kindness towards people you don’t know who have their own story on how they “got here”.  

[InkaUtexas 25993]

20 minutes ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

i dunno....maybe someone should've left you to drown in your own vomit instead of rolling your over on your side after your third blackout drunk and vomit-fest.  

i say this as someone who was prescribed Vicodin for a migraine, who took as prescribed, but had the door kicked in to my own hell of addiction, who checked out of rehab 8.5 years later with all that i had left in the world: a dufflebag of clothes and 2 pair of shoes, one of which were shower flip-flops, having lost my family, innumerable friends, my home and my vocation.  that was a 11.5 years ago, and since then i've managed to rebuild a damn good life worth living surrounded by friends, family and colleagues, having given a second chance at everything, including my career, where i've reached heights that i never even dreamed of at the beginning.   fuck...this recovering dope fiend flies on an Embraer 300 Phenom now when i do business, and some pleasure, trips.

i'm here because of second, third, fourth, fifth...infinite chances that were given to me, including overdoses.  and i thank god for those who, disgusted as though they may have been, never turned away.  and for strangers who identified with my plight and had the love and empathy to frankly rescue and guide when i was at my sickest.  

this shit the junkie in the library is dealing with is a disease, a fucking nightmare of a disease, and s/he isn't responsible for having this particular disease anymore than the Type 1 diabetic is responsible for having diabetes .  they are, however, responsible for their recovery, but they can't get there without help...ALL types of help.  including having Narcan administered.

to say "that's their choice, their consequences" and use death as a consequence of choice implies addiction is a moral issue, one of character.  and that's ignorant and callous as fuck, as well as immoral per se.

fucking hell, man.  what's happened to simple, human decency?

 

Well put. Never turn your back on a human. 

[Js1 85420]

15 minutes ago, Homercles said:

 

Not sure how some people seem to fail at defaulting to humbleness, humanity and kindness towards people you don’t know who have their own story on how they “got here”.  

Yeah, I know how. 

We are a shitty fucking species. 

[FartingMonk 3608]

Maybe if they were homeless Ukranian junkies she would be at the front lines volunteering to administer the narcan

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 hours ago, Homercles said:

Not sure how some people seem to fail at defaulting to humbleness, humanity and kindness towards people you don’t know who have their own story on how they “got here”.  

Probably about the time they realized they couldn’t take their kids to the library without wading thru junkies?  

[Deej 76831]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Probably about the time they realized they couldn’t take their kids to the library without wading thru junkies?  

The perverts using the library computers to browse and post of Surly are a bigger problem. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

57 minutes ago, Deej said:

The perverts using the library computers to browse and post of Surly are a bigger problem. 

No argument from me 

[Gatorubet 30246]

14 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

So we have heard.

Local man charged with exposing self, masturbating at public library

https://local12.com/newsletter-daily/cincinnati-ohio-man-charged-exposing-self-masturbating-public-library-robert-mcclure-public-indecency-arrest-delhi

If he fapped in the Self-help section, then that would be a not guilty.

amirite?

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

34 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

If he fapped in the Self-help section, then that would be a not guilty.

amirite?

[SHOOTER12 8811]

On 6/16/2022 at 3:34 PM, Mantis Toboggan, MD said:

Uh.  Yes?  Do you think they should have a three strikes and you're out policy?  Give em a punchcard.  "Janice, get the Narcan, this guy is dying.  No, hold up, his OD punchcard says he has already been Narcan'd 3 times, better let him die"

 

 

On 6/16/2022 at 3:34 PM, Mantis Toboggan, MD said:

Uh.  Yes?  Do you think they should have a three strikes and you're out policy?  Give em a punchcard.  "Janice, get the Narcan, this guy is dying.  No, hold up, his OD punchcard says he has already been Narcan'd 3 times, better let him die"

 

I must be out of my mind today,  or maybe it's the heat,  but I  cracked up laughing at this.

Edit: Yeah, special place in hell something,  something...

Edited June 17, 2022 by SHOOTER12

[hayden_horn 11362]

shouldn't we all be expected to save someone if we can, without a thorough investigation of their past actions to determine their worthiness of saving?

I'm jumping in after the drowning guy before i issue a background check on him.

[Covri 6249]

19 hours ago, Hmbre97 said:

Nicole's favorite scene from Breaking Bad

[Nicole44 22063]

34 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

shouldn't we all be expected to save someone if we can, without a thorough investigation of their past actions to determine their worthiness of saving?

I'm jumping in after the drowning guy before i issue a background check on him.

I’m all for the saving of people as well but it’s not really the same thing as a bunch of junkies consistently hanging out in front of and OD’ing in front of the library. The onus shouldn’t be on the librarian. That was my point. It’s why nothing gets done about the homelessness issue with any real serious solutions. But you can’t round them up and send them to a facility and force them to stop using. So guess make it really difficult for them to loiter out front of libraries then.

my friend has worked in fairly major city libraries and it’s a considerable issue. So much so that it’s a topic of frequent discussion. Still waiting to see if he will be found at fault for anything. He’s as liberal on the political spectrum as they get and he acknowledges it’s a major problem. He’s thought about all sorts of solutions but so far the only response is to stock them up with Narcan. There has to be a better solution in addition to stocking them up with supplies:.. 
 

But I’m an uncaring unfeeling POS who just wants homeless people to die and OD lmao. Thinking that the status quo is safe or acceptable for them is false as well. 

[Nicole44 22063]

22 minutes ago, Covri said:

Ok…that’s funny. I’m the grim reaper! 

[Hermanator 7112]

7 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Well put. Never turn your back on a human. 

You can turn your back on a person. 

But never, ever turn your back on a drug. Especially when it's waiving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye. 

[Deej 76831]

1 hour ago, Nicole44 said:

There has to be a better solution in addition to stocking them up with supplies:.. 

Until there is, maybe just help out a fellow human being as best he can?

[Nicole44 22063]

39 minutes ago, Deej said:

Until there is, maybe just help out a fellow human being as best he can?

Not disagreeing. He’s all about helping them. They have a decent size homeless population that stays in the library daily but mainly most read and search for jobs and try to stay cool and aren’t an issue. The addicts that are OD’ing need to be dealt with…just not sure the best answer for that. It’s a sad deal and there has to be a better way than turning our librarians into first responders. They’d much rather help the homeless crowd utilize the library to help them find jobs etc…educate themselves obviously 

[Deej 76831]

Well, time is of the essence if someone is overdosing. If your friend doesn't want to deal with it, he can go be a school librarian and risk being shot. 

[Willfully Horn 8031]

49 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

The addicts that are OD’ing need to be dealt with…just not sure the best answer for that

Supervised injection sites are a rational idea. Great place to get addicts to agree to rehab, too.

Government’s only role in such sites is to stay the fuck out of the way of saving lives.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Willfully Horn
More

[HRSchenker 2271]

The issue with giving librarians Narcan is that they'll be expected to handle the patient once they come back and narcan'd patients can get pretty violent. Do libraries have rubber rooms? 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

1 hour ago, Willfully Horn said:

Supervised injection sites are a rational idea. Great place to get addicts to agree to rehab, too.

Government’s only role in such sites is to stay the fuck out of the way of saving lives.

It's been at least 20 years since I saw it but I remember a doc about Amsterdam. Cops found a couple of guys doing the nod out in the street. Instead of taking them to jail they took them to a detox shelter. No hollering, no beatings just take Otis to the bed and let him sleep it off. 

[Willfully Horn 8031]

57 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

The issue with giving librarians Narcan is that they'll be expected to handle the patient once they come back and narcan'd patients can get pretty violent. Do libraries have rubber rooms? 

You’d think the Mayo Clinic would note aggression, at least, if violence was not uncommon. I defer to your experience, and will also consider the experiences of other people. 
 

Quote

Precautions

The effects of the opioid medicine may last longer than the effects of the naloxone. This means the breathing problems and sleepiness could come back. Always call for emergency help after the first dose of naloxone. 

Severe opioid withdrawal symptoms may happen suddenly after receiving this medicine. These include body aches, a fever, sweating, runny nose, sneezing, goose bumps, yawning, weakness, shivering or trembling, nervousness, restlessness or irritability, diarrhea, nausea or vomiting, stomach cramps, fast heartbeat, and increased blood pressure. 

 

Some types of opioid medications (eg, buprenorphine, pentazocine) may require larger or repeat doses of naloxone to reverse the opioid effects. 

Do not take other medicines unless they have been discussed with your doctor. This includes prescription or nonprescription (over-the-counter [OTC]) medicines and herbal or vitamin supplements. 

Side Effects

Along with its needed effects, a medicine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.

Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur:

 

Less common

1. Discomfort in the nose
2. lack or loss of strength
3. lightheadedness, dizziness, fainting
4. stomach pain

Incidence not known

1. Agitation
2. body aches
3. crying more than the usual (in babies)
4. diarrhea
5. fast, pounding, or irregular heartbeat or pulse
6. fever
7. goosebumps
8. irritability
9. loss of consciousness
10. nausea or vomiting
11. nervousness
12. ongoing trouble breathing
13. restlessness
14. runny or stuffy nose
15. seizures (in babies)
16. shivering or trembling
17. sleepiness or unusual drowsiness
18. sneezing
19. stomach cramps
20. sweating
21. weakness
22. yawning

Some side effects may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects. Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:

More common

1. Headache
2. joint or muscle pain

Other side effects not listed may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your healthcare professional.

Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects. You may report side effects to the FDA at 1-800-FDA-1088.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/naloxone-nasal-route/side-effects/drg-20165181?p=1

Edited June 18, 2022 by Willfully Horn
Edit

[Born to Run 6569]

i dunno....maybe someone should've left you to drown in your own vomit instead of rolling your over on your side after your third blackout drunk and vomit-fest.  
i say this as someone who was prescribed Vicodin for a migraine, who took as prescribed, but had the door kicked in to my own hell of addiction, who checked out of rehab 8.5 years later with all that i had left in the world: a dufflebag of clothes and 2 pair of shoes, one of which were shower flip-flops, having lost my family, innumerable friends, my home and my vocation.  that was a 11.5 years ago, and since then i've managed to rebuild a damn good life worth living surrounded by friends, family and colleagues, having given a second chance at everything, including my career, where i've reached heights that i never even dreamed of at the beginning.   fuck...this recovering dope fiend flies on an Embraer 300 Phenom now when i do business, and some pleasure, trips.
i'm here because of second, third, fourth, fifth...infinite chances that were given to me, including overdoses.  and i thank god for those who, disgusted as though they may have been, never turned away.  and for strangers who identified with my plight and had the love and empathy to frankly rescue and guide when i was at my sickest.  
this shit the junkie in the library is dealing with is a disease, a fucking nightmare of a disease, and s/he isn't responsible for having this particular disease anymore than the Type 1 diabetic is responsible for having diabetes .  they are, however, responsible for their recovery, but they can't get there without help...ALL types of help.  including having Narcan administered.
to say "that's their choice, their consequences" and use death as a consequence of choice implies addiction is a moral issue, one of character.  and that's ignorant and callous as fuck, as well as immoral per se.
fucking hell, man.  what's happened to simple, human decency?
 

Thank you for this Kyrie, well said, especially when it might have been easier to just ignore ignorant comments or self preserve. Thank you for your support of other addicts and those struggling here and elsewhere. And having empathy. Tiger Bait and what not. Sincere congrats on your recovery, that is amazing, as is clarity to realize that it was a bit of luck and chance encounters at kindness that helped you rally.

I just got through knee surgery and after two days of pills I threw that shit away and just dealt with it. It just knee shit and not chronic pain, and pills don't agree with me, otherwise I could have ended up there too. Fuck pills.

I've seen many a great man go from needed pain meds to dark fucking places very quickly. The pills so quickly rewire brains, it's truly horrible zomby shut. I've elected to cut people out of my life, but I've never felt the urge to say "fuck em".

[DalTxHornFan 3106]

13 hours ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

i dunno....maybe someone should've left you to drown in your own vomit instead of rolling your over on your side after your third blackout drunk and vomit-fest.  

i say this as someone who was prescribed Vicodin for a migraine, who took as prescribed, but had the door kicked in to my own hell of addiction, who checked out of rehab 8.5 years later with all that i had left in the world: a dufflebag of clothes and 2 pair of shoes, one of which were shower flip-flops, having lost my family, innumerable friends, my home and my vocation.  that was a 11.5 years ago, and since then i've managed to rebuild a damn good life worth living surrounded by friends, family and colleagues, having given a second chance at everything, including my career, where i've reached heights that i never even dreamed of at the beginning.   fuck...this recovering dope fiend flies on an Embraer 300 Phenom now when i do business, and some pleasure, trips.

i'm here because of second, third, fourth, fifth...infinite chances that were given to me, including overdoses.  and i thank god for those who, disgusted as though they may have been, never turned away.  and for strangers who identified with my plight and had the love and empathy to frankly rescue and guide when i was at my sickest.  

this shit the junkie in the library is dealing with is a disease, a fucking nightmare of a disease, and s/he isn't responsible for having this particular disease anymore than the Type 1 diabetic is responsible for having diabetes .  they are, however, responsible for their recovery, but they can't get there without help...ALL types of help.  including having Narcan administered.

to say "that's their choice, their consequences" and use death as a consequence of choice implies addiction is a moral issue, one of character.  and that's ignorant and callous as fuck, as well as immoral per se.

fucking hell, man.  what's happened to simple, human decency?

 

Kyrie --

I appreciate what you are saying.  I may have personalized my reactions on this topic a bit too much because of my personal experiences in this area.

I had a family member that starting hitting smack in HS and really never stopped using for the rest of his life.  Huge priors and incarceration for possession, armed robbery, theft, extortion.  Stole from family members that gave him a place to live whenever he was out of prison.  Huntsville and associated facilities were his second home.  He broke his mother's heart.

Once she passed, the family went tough love on him.  He died in prison of self-inflicted Hep-C and liver failure at the age of 65.  I understand very well the concept of "but for the grace of God -- there go I," but there are just some people and some situations, despite any of our best intentions, that we will not be able to fix in this lifetime. 

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

3 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Kyrie --

I appreciate what you are saying.  I may have personalized my reactions on this topic a bit too much because of my personal experiences in this area.

I had a family member that starting hitting smack in HS and really never stopped using for the rest of his life.  Huge priors and incarceration for possession, armed robbery, theft, extortion.  Stole from family members that gave him a place to live whenever he was out of prison.  Huntsville and associated facilities were his second home.  He broke his mother's heart.

Once she passed, the family went tough love on him.  He died in prison of self-inflicted Hep-C and liver failure at the age of 65.  I understand very well the concept of "but for the grace of God -- there go I," but there are just some people and some situations, despite any of our best intentions, that we will not be able to fix in this lifetime. 

could not agree more, and for those people and their families and loved ones, i grieve genuinely.  it is heartbreaking, and it’s a constant reminder of where i could’ve easily been had it not been for prevalent grace and mercy, both divine and humankind.  
 

i still hit one or two meetings a week, and when i see an empty chair normally occupied by a regular, i wonder…

the vast majority of the time it’s nothing.  but there are occasions when it’s the inevitable…

I’ve been to far too many unnecessary funerals.  it takes a toll.  
 

i’m genuinely sorry for your family’s experience and loss. 

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

46 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

Thank you for this Kyrie, well said, especially when it might have been easier to just ignore ignorant comments or self preserve. Thank you for your support of other addicts and those struggling here and elsewhere. And having empathy. Tiger Bait and what not. Sincere congrats on your recovery, that is amazing, as is clarity to realize that it was a bit of luck and chance encounters at kindness that helped you rally.

I just got through knee surgery and after two days of pills I threw that shit away and just dealt with it. It just knee shit and not chronic pain, and pills don't agree with me, otherwise I could have ended up there too. Fuck pills.

I've seen many a great man go from needed pain meds to dark fucking places very quickly. The pills so quickly rewire brains, it's truly horrible zomby shut. I've elected to cut people out of my life, but I've never felt the urge to say "fuck em".

I’ve had two surgeries while in recovery, the most recent a left total shoulder replacement 11 weeks ago.  i did both procedures drug free, and spent 90 days prior to each getting myself in the best physical, mental and spiritual shape possible.   and it helped with both, though the shoulder surgery was…and continues to be after PT…excruciating, though that’s limited now to the the 36 hours post PT. 

nevertheless, as bad as it is it pales in comparison to the pain of active addiction.  so yeah…one does what they gotta do.  
 

so Geaux Tigers! and Hook ‘Em!
 

[Hermanator 7112]

11 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Kyrie --

I appreciate what you are saying.  I may have personalized my reactions on this topic a bit too much because of my personal experiences in this area.

I had a family member that starting hitting smack in HS and really never stopped using for the rest of his life.  Huge priors and incarceration for possession, armed robbery, theft, extortion.  Stole from family members that gave him a place to live whenever he was out of prison.  Huntsville and associated facilities were his second home.  He broke his mother's heart.

Once she passed, the family went tough love on him.  He died in prison of self-inflicted Hep-C and liver failure at the age of 65.  I understand very well the concept of "but for the grace of God -- there go I," but there are just some people and some situations, despite any of our best intentions, that we will not be able to fix in this lifetime. 

It sucks. Have seen it first hand myself. 

But obviously both the indulgent, enabling behavior and the "tough love" shunning of these people by society doesn't work. The extreme left and extreme right, like usual, don't work. 

Addiction already isolates people sp the act of societal shunning only exacerbates the problem. That's why the supervised injection sites have been shown to have some success. It shows some support for these people while also pushing them towards rehab and reestablishing bonds towards loved ones and the community. 

It's not fool proof and doesn't work for everyone, but no solution to a societal problem works for everyone. It should be about trying different things and seeing what works the best for the most. Instead we're stuck trying nothing because we approach societal problems as two opposing sides fighting for power and if something isn't perfect then one side will kill it.