Is this woman the future of mainline Protestantism?

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Or versions of her? You've got to admit, she is serving an underserved market. And her messages are legit. 

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31515]

Certainly a counterweight to the evangelical types.  I do think that there are "loving" congregations (as opposed to the more stereotypical evangelical or conservative types) that may not be entirely ready for more than a few drag queens and the like.

Edited June 3, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[gsoda3 3276]

That video isn't that revealing of anything other than the non-traditional demographic of the congregation.

I will say the one thing I'm concerned the most about her church is the de-emphasis on changing sanctification, which is the mark of the true believer.

[demos 3004]

How’s her plane game?

[pch 1259]

28 minutes ago, demos said:

How’s her plane game?

No G-5, no dice.

[bmbmd 1027]

I like her.  She offers hope and acceptance, and has modeled transformation in her own life.  

[El Diablo 4232]

20 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

That video isn't that revealing of anything other than the non-traditional demographic of the congregation.

I will say the one thing I'm concerned the most about her church is the de-emphasis on changing sanctification, which is the mark of the true believer.

I didn't get that from the video but perhaps you know more about her congregation than I do.

Churches have a well deserved reputation for being exclusive and she seems to be trying something different to address that. I think that's a good thing. 

[CooterBrown 18021]

This thread will surely bring Escriva back to tell us how his narrow belief system is the only acceptable form of Christianity.

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 hour ago, El Diablo said:

I didn't get that from the video but perhaps you know more about her congregation than I do.

Churches have a well deserved reputation for being exclusive and she seems to be trying something different to address that. I think that's a good thing. 

There's a big online push behind her now coming ahead of the launch of her cable show. She's about to be really well known....And I am kind surprised it's taken this long.

I was raised Catholic but if I were to choose a denomination it would be Lutheran, I think. Catholicism without the baggage...In one of her videos making the rounds on social media she talks about Saints and Sinners, the name of her church, is a fundamental part of Lutheranism.

I'd never been to a Lutheran church until about eight or nine years ago when I went to Midnight Xmas Mass in Pflugerville. The pastor was up there talking about his family and I was like "Holy shit, he can do that, because he actually has a wife and kids. It's not some freak priest talking about shit he knows nothing about."

 

[staboner 4984]

On 6/2/2018 at 11:17 PM, gsoda3 said:

That video isn't that revealing of anything other than the non-traditional demographic of the congregation.

I will say the one thing I'm concerned the most about her church is the de-emphasis on changing sanctification, which is the mark of the true believer.

another interesting angle is to just be nice to everybody

[Doc Reeves 6434]

Meh, as a Lutheran I’ve heard all that before.  It’s not about what you say it’s about what you do.

I have yet to find an American church where theological principles out weigh the necessity to run a business. That’s not meant to be a critique of religion rather a comment on our country’s culture. 

 

 

 

[gsoda3 3276]

13 hours ago, El Diablo said:

I didn't get that from the video but perhaps you know more about her congregation than I do.

Churches have a well deserved reputation for being exclusive and she seems to be trying something different to address that. I think that's a good thing. 

yeah not from the video.  she's had the label "up and comer" for at least a few years so she's been on the radar.  i love what she's doing, in emphasizing that Jesus came for the broken.  He loves us as we are as she says in that video, but so often we get comfortable stopping there and not realizing that Jesus over and over preaches that He wants more than that from us-  that He came to give us life to the fullest, and the first step is repentance.  we were made for living in holiness, not living in our own wisdom.

14 minutes ago, staboner said:

another interesting angle is to just be nice to everybody

that's pretty fundamental to Christianity.  i don't know how anyone who has experienced the grace and mercy of forgiveness can be so consistently hardened to other people.  

[gsoda3 3276]

1 minute ago, Doc Reeves said:

I have yet to find an American church where theological principles out weigh the necessity to run a business. That’s not meant to be a critique of religion rather a comment on our country’s culture. 

 

 

 

what do you mean?  i know of plenty of churches who aren't out to get rich if that's what you're insinuating.

[LCHorn 2626]

There’s a terrific Fresh Air interview with her from a year or two ago for those of you that like podcasts.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

11 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

what do you mean?  i know of plenty of churches who aren't out to get rich if that's what you're insinuating.

Money has nothing to do with it. 

[gsoda3 3276]

5 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

Money has nothing to do with it. 

that's why i asked what you meant.

[Uncle Nate 2097]

Any church is automatically a business by default.  Why?  Because a building costs money.  Electricity and water cost money.  A preacher has to earn a living.

So why do it?  If coming together in fellowship with a group of other believers of the same faith results in the need to create a business, why do it at all?  Jesus never said go build a church, hire a pastor, raise money, etc.  It's literally not in any of his directions to us.  So why do we do it?

For the simple reason that we do want to commune with fellow believers of the same faith.  So in order to have the mechanism for that communion and fellowship, we take on the things of this world that is required to build such a mechanism.  But we aren't in it for the money.  We are simply trying to provide the structure for worship that we want.

Now, in regards to Christianity be an exclusionary club...I couldn't disagree more.  We are all sinners.  I repeat, we are all sinners.  Christians are not better than anyone else...hell, most of us are probably worse. I'm probably the worst of the worst, and for that I hate me.  Christians just know we are bad and we want to follow the path of salvation knowing there is nothing we can do to save ourselves.  Nothing.  Nada.  We cannot save ourselves.  So we put our trust in the one who can.  That does not make us better than anyone...at all.  Our salvation is not in our own hands.

Where I draw the line is some of the modern Christianity that will tell me my sin is not a sin.  No, my sin is sin. It's really bad.  I suck and there's nothing I can do to stop sucking.  God does not look the other way.  A price has to be paid for it, and it was paid.  But not by me.  That doesn't give me the freedom to sin or to redefine sin or to say my sin doesn't matter.  It does, and it's bad.  The price is death.  Luckily, the price was paid.  I do not judge anyone else's sin because I know mine is worse.  But that doesn't mean I say that sin is of your own opinion or that we have the freedom to sin and do whatever we want.  It's not and we don't.

Sorry I got a little theological here.  Didn't mean to go there.

[Brisketexan 105186]

45 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Any church is automatically a business by default.  Why?  Because a building costs money.  Electricity and water cost money.  A preacher has to earn a living.

So why do it?  If coming together in fellowship with a group of other believers of the same faith results in the need to create a business, why do it at all?  Jesus never said go build a church, hire a pastor, raise money, etc.  It's literally not in any of his directions to us.  So why do we do it?

For the simple reason that we do want to commune with fellow believers of the same faith.  So in order to have the mechanism for that communion and fellowship, we take on the things of this world that is required to build such a mechanism.  But we aren't in it for the money.  We are simply trying to provide the structure for worship that we want.

Now, in regards to Christianity be an exclusionary club...I couldn't disagree more.  We are all sinners.  I repeat, we are all sinners.  Christians are not better than anyone else...hell, most of us are probably worse. I'm probably the worst of the worst, and for that I hate me.  Christians just know we are bad and we want to follow the path of salvation knowing there is nothing we can do to save ourselves.  Nothing.  Nada.  We cannot save ourselves.  So we put our trust in the one who can.  That does not make us better than anyone...at all.  Our salvation is not in our own hands.

Where I draw the line is some of the modern Christianity that will tell me my sin is not a sin.  No, my sin is sin. It's really bad.  I suck and there's nothing I can do to stop sucking.  God does not look the other way.  A price has to be paid for it, and it was paid.  But not by me.  That doesn't give me the freedom to sin or to redefine sin or to say my sin doesn't matter.  It does, and it's bad.  The price is death.  Luckily, the price was paid.  I do not judge anyone else's sin because I know mine is worse.  But that doesn't mean I say that sin is of your own opinion or that we have the freedom to sin and do whatever we want.  It's not and we don't.

Sorry I got a little theological here.  Didn't mean to go there.

Good post, but there's a threshold problem that a lot of denominations -- even purportedly inclusive ones -- have.

It matches up with the saying that "church isn't a hotel for saints, it's a hospital for sinners."  BUT....so many seem to require a huge prerequisite: accept and agree with all major tenets of christianity (and different denominations differ on how many such "major" tenets there are) as a price of admission.

That is, it's a hospital for sinners....but in order to be admitted for treatment....you have to represent that you're already "cured" of the biggest defects of "non-christians."

Christianity is a WAY, much more than it is a checklist of beliefs.  I mean, it's literally the FIRST thing that Christ says about himself: "I am the WAY, the truth, and the life."

Getting back to the OP, that's something I respect about her (we've known of her for some time -- some of our circles intersect, etc., although we've never met her in person).  I think she's a BIT of a caricature and creates an "over-the-top" image that I don't see as entirely necessary and a bit self-aggrandizing, but I think her foundational approach is good, kind, and consistent with "the WAY" of christianity.  Is she the future?  I don't know.  I really don't know what the future of American christianity is.  The only thing I know is that it will look significantly different than what it looks like today.

[El Diablo 4232]

If Christian churches weren't so exclusive why are there so many of them? If you disagree with the beliefs of a particular sect and make it known are you even still going to be considered a member? It shouldn't be that difficult. JMHO.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Good post, but there's a threshold problem that a lot of denominations -- even purportedly inclusive ones -- have.

It matches up with the saying that "church isn't a hotel for saints, it's a hospital for sinners."  BUT....so many seem to require a huge prerequisite: accept and agree with all major tenets of christianity (and different denominations differ on how many such "major" tenets there are) as a price of admission.

That is, it's a hospital for sinners....but in order to be admitted for treatment....you have to represent that you're already "cured" of the biggest defects of "non-christians."

Christianity is a WAY, much more than it is a checklist of beliefs.  I mean, it's literally the FIRST thing that Christ says about himself: "I am the WAY, the truth, and the life."

Getting back to the OP, that's something I respect about her (we've known of her for some time -- some of our circles intersect, etc., although we've never met her in person).  I think she's a BIT of a caricature and creates an "over-the-top" image that I don't see as entirely necessary and a bit self-aggrandizing, but I think her foundational approach is good, kind, and consistent with "the WAY" of christianity.  Is she the future?  I don't know.  I really don't know what the future of American christianity is.  The only thing I know is that it will look significantly different than what it looks like today.

Yeah, agree on the caricature part....That's how you get on TV these days, and that's how you get a message out. Selah.

[Brisketexan 105186]

19 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yeah, agree on the caricature part....That's how you get on TV these days, and that's how you get a message out. Selah.

Yeah.  Sigh.

I know I've shared this story with you.  MANY years ago, a colleague and I were getting out of a shared cab in downtown Dallas.  Some hockey team was returning to town, playing their first game against the Stars after some horrible cheap shot on Mike Modano.  All the talk was about whether the Stars should retaliate for the Modano hit.  A TV crew was doing "man on the street" interviews as we got out of the cab: "Do you think the Stars should retaliate for the Modano hit?"  I gave some measured answer -- "It depends on how the game's going, whether they can afford the penalty at that time, etc."  They turn to my buddy -- who knows nothing about hockey, the Stars, or Mike Modano -- "YOU BET THEY SHOULD!  This is hockey!  They hit one of yours, you hit one of theirs!"

We walk off, and I ask him what the hell that was all about, he didn't even know anything about the story.  He grinned -- "Nope, I don't.  But guess which one of us is gonna be on TV tonight?"

He was right.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Rueful lol. 

But there is a sincerity about her I don't get from the other cable TV stars, all the same. I mean, showcasing that chest tattoo is a little bit much, but I tend to focus on her eyes, the handicap that made her who she is.