The Texpatriates Thread

[Chewbacca 7766]

4 hours ago, troph said:

Two early leaders are Bend, OR and Carbondale, CO… deschutes and the roaring fork. I’m thinking it will be hard to go wrong with either. House hunt is on… Truckee is a distant third, truckee river would be great but eventual taxes probably not.

What are your criteria, other than proximity to good fishing?  I might have a few ideas for you.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

On 6/22/2022 at 11:35 AM, Goredho said:

The thread for Texans unhappy with the governance of the state who have moved on to greener (bluer?) pastures elsewhere, or those who are considering it.  Feel free to post when, why, how its worked out, surprises, things you miss, questions of those who have left, etc...  I'll start.

We moved from Cedar Park to the mountains of Colorado in 2017.  We did so after an unsuccessful 2 year fight with Leander ISD to get two of our kids special ed services.  We thought we were just dealing with an obstinate school district, but came to find out it was a state-wide problem due to the TEA effectively imposing a cap on the ratio of students in a school that could receive special ed services at half the national average.  When we became aware of that, we decided Texas was not where we wanted to raise our family.

I talked to my job about being able to work remote, they said yes.  So we started looking, but settled on Colorado because A) we had vacationed here often and loved it, B) it was more progressive in general and C) the school district we would be in agreed to exactly what our doctors said our kids needed as far as services without any argument whatsoever.

It has been a great move, and our kids are doing well with their education vs struggling.  I generally agree with how the state is being run.  Laws are already in place to protect abortion rights, etc...  I miss friends, family, greasy tex-mex, bar-b-q and fishing the flats near Port Aransas.  You can get good Mexican food here, but its more of a Santa Fe style.  There is a Rudy's in Colorado Springs to scratch the BBQ itch.  Even though I miss the ocean fishing, there is plenty of fishing and other recreational opportunities up here in the high country. I still work for an Austin-based company, so I get to travel back once a quarter or so and hit up all my old haunts at that time.  Friends and family aren't really replaceable, but when you live in the mountains of CO, you will get plenty of visitors from "back home."

Recreational marijuana is awesome.

A surprising thing about Colorado -- it is a blue state, but the poor (non-resort) rural areas are just as red as they would be in Texas.  The people there feel like they are living under the tyranny of politicians in Denver that just care about the I25 corridor.  They may be more pissed off than Texans about liberals and democrats, because the state is generally under their influence.  I know a few who have left for Texas and South Dakota in a migration not unlike my own but for obviously different reasons.

@mchookem, @PenelopeWitherspoon, @Neonmoon, others?

I think this is true everywhere.  I live in northern Iowa, super close to both Minnesota and Wisconsin, which are generally considered blue states.

When you leave the bubbles of Minneapolis/St Paul and Milwaukee/Madison, those states are awash with Trump signs, flags, angry conservative displays, etc.  Far more than I see in ostensibly red Iowa.  Look at electoral maps of those states.  They're blue because 2/3rds of their respective populations are huddled into a couple of metro areas.

The reality is we don't really have red states and blue states anymore so much as rural vs. urban.  What makes a state red or blue is the percentage of rural population.  Other than maybe Vermont, rural areas nationwide are conservative.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

I've made the thought experiment of just moving across the border to Minnesota to say I live in a blue state, but fuck all of that.  Like I said upthread, rural Minnesota isn't any more progressive than rural Iowa, and weirdly enough, the corner of the world we live in, despite voting for Trump and some batshit state level people, doesn't seem to be dominated by the angry assholes I associate with Trumpism.  I know some of those people, but even the more conservative-voting friends I have are pretty laid back and tolerant of others.  They just hate these extreme examples of the left that get shoved into their social media feeds, and struggle to separate from that at the voting both.  

I kind of feel that if I leave, I'm letting the assholes win.  I think the Great Sort (people aligning their living places with their political beliefs) is one of the worst things to ever happen to this country, and will only further polarization.  Maybe my mind will change if I have a gay or trans kid, or something like that, but I can't see anything short of that doing it.

I don't say that as a criticism of y'all that moved to a place whose politics align with your own.  You have to do what's right for you and your family.  But I do think that this greater movement will cause irreparable social damage.

[Beau Vine 54205]

7 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The reality is we don't really have red states and blue states anymore so much as rural vs. urban.  What makes a state red or blue is the percentage of rural population.  Other than maybe Vermont, rural areas nationwide are conservative.

Look at noted "blue states" Oregon and Washington:

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

Look at noted "blue states" Oregon and Washington:

Exactly.  

Unrelated note, but somewhat apropos to blue bubbles and red rural areas, but how does your kid like Rochester so far?

[Nivek 16916]

I think this is true everywhere.  I live in northern Iowa, super close to both Minnesota and Wisconsin, which are generally considered blue states.
When you leave the bubbles of Minneapolis/St Paul and Milwaukee/Madison, those states are awash with Trump signs, flags, angry conservative displays, etc.  Far more than I see in ostensibly red Iowa.  Look at electoral maps of those states.  They're blue because 2/3rds of their respective populations are huddled into a couple of metro areas.
The reality is we don't really have red states and blue states anymore so much as rural vs. urban.  What makes a state red or blue is the percentage of rural population.  Other than maybe Vermont, rural areas nationwide are conservative.

They are not conservative. They are republicans.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

1 minute ago, Nivek said:

They are not conservative. They are republicans.

Fair

[Beau Vine 54205]

9 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Exactly.  

Unrelated note, but somewhat apropos to blue bubbles and red rural areas, but how does your kid like Rochester so far?

She doesn't start there till 9/12.  She is going on an apartment-hunting trip in a couple of weeks, so I'll probably besiege you with questions between those two dates.   It sounds like the two apartments she has been looking into are both downtown, 1st Ave/3rd St area.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Beau Vine

[mchookem 16320]

update - under contract here in Denver...and ended up with pretty much the opposite of what we initially thought we'd get lol...instead of a giant half-empty house in the suburbs, we got a good-sized townhome in an excellent area much closer to the city center 😄 

fyi - surly mortgage/RE connections are aces🤘

this was the first place we looked at...then we looked at about 25 houses in every possible Denver suburb...then came back to look at this place again. the decision came down to this place vs. a gorgeous suburban home that i would have been equally comfortable in but would have been at least a 10-15 minute car ride to most everywhere. ultimately low maintenance and proximity to pretty much everything won out. 

i guess unlike most, we chose to continue our relatively urban lifestyle in retirement, at least for now. we'll be walking distance (<1 mile) to literally everything (grocery, park, gym, bars/restaurants, etc.). it has a small courtyard instead of a yard. i guess we really do just like the diversity and 'busyness' of city life. i'm pretty excited. 😊

i'll say this...you get a LOT more home for your money in Denver than we did in Austin. the property tax difference is mind-bottling lol, literally hundreds of dollars a month. yeah there's an income tax, but it's relatively low, and even lower for my other half b/c he's 65+.

anyways...just a report from a 2-week old Texpat 🙂🤘

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

12 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

She doesn't start there till 9/12.  She is going on an apartment-hunting trip in a couple of weeks, so I'll probably besiege you with questions between those two dates. 

Sounds good.  She'll at least get her first taste of the area at the prime weather window before getting swiftly kicked in the face by winter.

[CO Horn 156]

44 minutes ago, mchookem said:

update - under contract here in Denver...and ended up with pretty much the opposite of what we initially thought we'd get lol...instead of a giant half-empty house in the suburbs, we got a good-sized townhome in an excellent area much closer to the city center 😄 

fyi - surly mortgage/RE connections are aces🤘

this was the first place we looked at...then we looked at about 25 houses in every possible Denver suburb...then came back to look at this place again. the decision came down to this place vs. a gorgeous suburban home that i would have been equally comfortable in but would have been at least a 10-15 minute car ride to most everywhere. ultimately low maintenance and proximity to pretty much everything won out. 

i guess unlike most, we chose to continue our relatively urban lifestyle in retirement, at least for now. we'll be walking distance (<1 mile) to literally everything (grocery, park, gym, bars/restaurants, etc.). it has a small courtyard instead of a yard. i guess we really do just like the diversity and 'busyness' of city life. i'm pretty excited. 😊

i'll say this...you get a LOT more home for your money in Denver than we did in Austin. the property tax difference is mind-bottling lol, literally hundreds of dollars a month. yeah there's an income tax, but it's relatively low, and even lower for my other half b/c he's 65+.

anyways...just a report from a 2-week old Texpat 🙂🤘

Yes, depending on the home value, the property tax savings offsets the state income tax.  Our current home is assessed at about $850K and our property taxes are a little over $6K.  We're looking at moving to a new home in an unincorporated area.  Sales tax will be 2.9% as opposed 8.52%.  Will save quite a bit on Amazon purchases.

[troph 24781]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

What are your criteria, other than proximity to good fishing?  I might have a few ideas for you.

fishing, weather, live music, food, tennis, golf, wifi, beautiful mountains, and cost. believe it or not I've found some affordable stuff in carbondale. bend too, but crested butte - which is too small, is too expensive. telluride is stupid expensive for house rentals.

Edited July 13, 2022 by troph

[troph 24781]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I've made the thought experiment of just moving across the border to Minnesota to say I live in a blue state, but fuck all of that.  Like I said upthread, rural Minnesota isn't any more progressive than rural Iowa, and weirdly enough, the corner of the world we live in, despite voting for Trump and some batshit state level people, doesn't seem to be dominated by the angry assholes I associate with Trumpism.  I know some of those people, but even the more conservative-voting friends I have are pretty laid back and tolerant of others.  They just hate these extreme examples of the left that get shoved into their social media feeds, and struggle to separate from that at the voting both.  

I kind of feel that if I leave, I'm letting the assholes win.  I think the Great Sort (people aligning their living places with their political beliefs) is one of the worst things to ever happen to this country, and will only further polarization.  Maybe my mind will change if I have a gay or trans kid, or something like that, but I can't see anything short of that doing it.

I don't say that as a criticism of y'all that moved to a place whose politics align with your own.  You have to do what's right for you and your family.  But I do think that this greater movement will cause irreparable social damage.

it's easier to stay in a red state when the laws of the red state aren't guns pointed at your personal liberty. it's why I love my straight white male friends who are fierce allies, they don't need to be an ally to women, to gays, to trans folk, to POC, to anyone yet they are.  But for the rest of us, living in a blue state, even if local politics are 55-45 red can make all the difference.  Those 55% in the local majority don't have the same power as the 55% in the local majority of a red state.  it can make all the difference.  and right now, I'm resigned to the conclusion that the problem is this isn't going to reverse in my life time. so, do I stay as a white lady with money and education and professional privilege or do I leave so that my marriage, my personal healthcare (my body my right) and are protected.  that's the million dollar question.  for now it's not yet leave but be comfortable in a second home where the move would be less traumatic and easy.

[SydneyCarton 48054]

The Tax stuff coming up is interesting. One of our close couple friends, the wife is a very intelligent comptroller. She's also from Alabama, went to Mississippi State, and generally speaking her kneejerk instincts are on the conservative/religious stint. That being said, she's kind and tolerant of others and no Trumpkin. So with the profile out of the way, we were bullshitting about retirement the other day, and places to retire, and she rolls out the notion that red states would be much superior to blue states for retirement for, generally speaking, tax purposes. Lower Taxes, or no state income taxes, etc etc. While on it's face that made some sense to me, after about 10 seconds of thought, I responded that I don't think that's the case. If you're retired, you're only going to be taxed on the money you take out, depending on the investment vehicle, and that shouldn't be all that much in many cases. Additionally, I could be sitting on zero income every year and living off a huge pile in a checking account, and I'd still get hit with property taxes in a place like Texas. 

Any of you experts or folks with different experiences in different states have any thoughts? I know each state will be different, and there's no obvious answer, but I'm curious if anyone else has given this thought and or folks have positive versus negative experiences retiring to different places?

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

11 minutes ago, troph said:

it's easier to stay in a red state when the laws of the red state aren't guns pointed at your personal liberty. it's why I love my straight white male friends who are fierce allies, they don't need to be an ally to women, to gays, to trans folk, to POC, to anyone yet they are.  But for the rest of us, living in a blue state, even if local politics are 55-45 red can make all the difference.  Those 55% in the local majority don't have the same power as the 55% in the local majority of a red state.  it can make all the difference.  and right now, I'm resigned to the conclusion that the problem is this isn't going to reverse in my life time. so, do I stay as a white lady with money and education and professional privilege or do I leave so that my marriage, my personal healthcare (my body my right) and are protected.  that's the million dollar question.  for now it's not yet leave but be comfortable in a second home where the move would be less traumatic and easy.

Yeah, that's why I've said having a gay or trans child could change the equation for me.

For me, a straight white male with a good education and good job, relocating to an area that aligns more with my politics is a pure luxury, and it's why it annoys me to see other people in my position leave what was once a very moderate state simply over politics.   IMO it's almost our duty to stay and fight for a better situation for the people who are directly affected by these laws as opposed to bailing.

For people who are being targeted by these laws, I completely understand the need to relocate.  For you, it's much closer to an actual need than it is for me.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Al_4_ISU

[Chewbacca 7766]

1 minute ago, troph said:

fishing, weather, live music, food, tennis, golf, wifi, beautiful mountains

Yeah, wanting some culture to go with your scenery will narrow it down quite a bit, as I'm sure you know.  I'd focus on areas around Durango, Telluride, Aspen (which you already are with Carbondale), Ouray.  

If you can give on that piece of it, then that opens up a lot more.  The Gunnison and Colorado rivers both have amazing fishing, but a lot of it is in the more remote parts of the state.  Gunnison is a cool town, though.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

4 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Oh look, North Carolina gets #1 for business from CNBC, even with its evil Democratic governor. 

Texas took #5, due to:

"Residents, meanwhile, have limited options for child care. Health-care resources are stretched, too, in the state with the largest percentage of people without health insurance. Texas is another one of the five states with no anti-discrimination law for nondisabled residents. And it is further chipping away at inclusiveness under Republican Gov. Greg Abbott.

"While multiple measures aimed at transgender youth and their parents have either died in the legislature or been stalled in court, the deeply controversial election law that went into effect this year has made Texas one of the most difficult states to vote in, according to researchers at Northern Illinois University.

"Put it all together, and Texas finishes at No. 49 for Life, Health and Inclusion, dragging down its overall ranking.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/13/north-carolina-is-no-1-in-americas-top-states-for-business.html

When states, like Texas, declare how business friendly they are, they never finish the sentence.  "We're business friendly.... at the expense of our citizens." 

Basically these states normally underfund public services to attract businesses. On paper this can work as the claim is that the businesses will hire people, leading to funding public services. In reality that does not occur.

[gmr548 16576]

update - under contract here in Denver...and ended up with pretty much the opposite of what we initially thought we'd get lol...instead of a giant half-empty house in the suburbs, we got a good-sized townhome in an excellent area much closer to the city center  
fyi - surly mortgage/RE connections are aces
this was the first place we looked at...then we looked at about 25 houses in every possible Denver suburb...then came back to look at this place again. the decision came down to this place vs. a gorgeous suburban home that i would have been equally comfortable in but would have been at least a 10-15 minute car ride to most everywhere. ultimately low maintenance and proximity to pretty much everything won out. 
i guess unlike most, we chose to continue our relatively urban lifestyle in retirement, at least for now. we'll be walking distance ( i'll say this...you get a LOT more home for your money in Denver than we did in Austin. the property tax difference is mind-bottling lol, literally hundreds of dollars a month. yeah there's an income tax, but it's relatively low, and even lower for my other half b/c he's 65+.
anyways...just a report from a 2-week old Texpat 

Sounds great! I think you’ll find you made the right choice. The suburbs with no kids - either as a young person or in retirement - seems just soul sucking.

[gmr548 16576]

I've made the thought experiment of just moving across the border to Minnesota to say I live in a blue state, but fuck all of that.  Like I said upthread, rural Minnesota isn't any more progressive than rural Iowa, and weirdly enough, the corner of the world we live in, despite voting for Trump and some batshit state level people, doesn't seem to be dominated by the angry assholes I associate with Trumpism.  I know some of those people, but even the more conservative-voting friends I have are pretty laid back and tolerant of others.  They just hate these extreme examples of the left that get shoved into their social media feeds, and struggle to separate from that at the voting both.  
I kind of feel that if I leave, I'm letting the assholes win.  I think the Great Sort (people aligning their living places with their political beliefs) is one of the worst things to ever happen to this country, and will only further polarization.  Maybe my mind will change if I have a gay or trans kid, or something like that, but I can't see anything short of that doing it.
I don't say that as a criticism of y'all that moved to a place whose politics align with your own.  You have to do what's right for you and your family.  But I do think that this greater movement will cause irreparable social damage.

A big reason we want out of Texas is apolitical. Hard to quantify but it is probably over 51%. Put it this way, if it wasn’t hot as shit, ugly for hours from where we live, and losing its COL advantages, we’d be more inclined to stay. Part of me does feel what you said about staying - because moving absolutely is a luxury.

But I will say, at the age where if we’re going to have kids it needs to be within the next five to ten years, it’s very hard to look around at the landscape here with regard to what the renovated want to do with public education, women’s health, etc. and conclude that it’s not best to bounce.

[gmr548 16576]

The Tax stuff coming up is interesting. One of our close couple friends, the wife is a very intelligent comptroller. She's also from Alabama, went to Mississippi State, and generally speaking her kneejerk instincts are on the conservative/religious stint. That being said, she's kind and tolerant of others and no Trumpkin. So with the profile out of the way, we were bullshitting about retirement the other day, and places to retire, and she rolls out the notion that red states would be much superior to blue states for retirement for, generally speaking, tax purposes. Lower Taxes, or no state income taxes, etc etc. While on it's face that made some sense to me, after about 10 seconds of thought, I responded that I don't think that's the case. If you're retired, you're only going to be taxed on the money you take out, depending on the investment vehicle, and that shouldn't be all that much in many cases. Additionally, I could be sitting on zero income every year and living off a huge pile in a checking account, and I'd still get hit with property taxes in a place like Texas. 
Any of you experts or folks with different experiences in different states have any thoughts? I know each state will be different, and there's no obvious answer, but I'm curious if anyone else has given this thought and or folks have positive versus negative experiences retiring to different places?

In Texas you can defer payment on your property taxes if you’re over 65, so there’s that. They are payable out of your estate, but not necessarily your problem as an individual.

The lack of state income tax is definitely not as important in retirement given that SS and potentially retirement/investment accounts are tax advantaged, or tax free if Roth.

Sales tax is relatively high. Public services for seniors are relatively low. So it’s a highly individualized question, the biggest variable probably being how you handle the property taxes.

[CO Horn 156]

39 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

The Tax stuff coming up is interesting. One of our close couple friends, the wife is a very intelligent comptroller. She's also from Alabama, went to Mississippi State, and generally speaking her kneejerk instincts are on the conservative/religious stint. That being said, she's kind and tolerant of others and no Trumpkin. So with the profile out of the way, we were bullshitting about retirement the other day, and places to retire, and she rolls out the notion that red states would be much superior to blue states for retirement for, generally speaking, tax purposes. Lower Taxes, or no state income taxes, etc etc. While on it's face that made some sense to me, after about 10 seconds of thought, I responded that I don't think that's the case. If you're retired, you're only going to be taxed on the money you take out, depending on the investment vehicle, and that shouldn't be all that much in many cases. Additionally, I could be sitting on zero income every year and living off a huge pile in a checking account, and I'd still get hit with property taxes in a place like Texas. 

Any of you experts or folks with different experiences in different states have any thoughts? I know each state will be different, and there's no obvious answer, but I'm curious if anyone else has given this thought and or folks have positive versus negative experiences retiring to different places?

Per Kiplinger, Texas is one of the least tax friendly states for retirees.  Colorado came in as one of the best states for retirees.

You might be surprised to see the Lone Star State on the list of least tax-friendly states for retirees. After all, isn't Texas one of the handful of states with no income tax? Well, yes, it's true that there are no income taxes in Texas...which means no taxes on Social Security benefits, pensions, 401(k)s, IRAs, or any other type of retirement income. But a lot of states don't tax these types of retirement income anyway (or at least partially exempt them), so states without any income tax don't necessarily have an advantage over other states when it comes to taxes on seniors.

Texas' main problem is with its property taxes. The state's median property tax rate is the seventh-highest in the country. For our hypothetical retired couples, that means an estimated annual property tax bill of $4,383 for the couple with the $250,000 home and $6,136 for the couple with the $350,000 home. On the bright side, seniors may be able to get a $10,000 property tax exemption, have their tax bill "frozen," or delay payment of taxes.

Sales taxes are on the high end in Texas, too. The state imposes a 6.25% tax, but local governments can tack on up to 2% more. When combined, the average state and local sales tax rate in Texas is 8.2%, which is the 14th-highest combined rate in the country.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

12 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

A big reason we want out of Texas is apolitical. Hard to quantify but it is probably over 51%. Put it this way, if it wasn’t hot as shit, ugly for hours from where we live, and losing its COL advantages, we’d be more inclined to stay. Part of me does feel what you said about staying - because moving absolutely is a luxury.

But I will say, at the age where if we’re going to have kids it needs to be within the next five to ten years, it’s very hard to look around at the landscape here with regard to what the renovated want to do with public education, women’s health, etc. and conclude that it’s not best to bounce.

Our state schools aren't trending well, but I trust that we'll be able to competently fill in the gaps in the educational system as parents.  I went to an underfunded public school through 9th grade (private HS) and it didn't hold me or my brother back.  We live in a small town where the teachers are your neighbors, and most of the ones I know are good at their job and give a shit.  That's good enough for me, I guess. 

My wife can't have kids, and it looks like Iowa will still allow life of the mother type abortions going forward, so my wife's not much at risk by any regression in women's health either.

But like I said earlier, we're kind of immune to Republican persecution being white, straight, (sort of) Christian, and infertile.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Al_4_ISU

[SydneyCarton 48054]

6 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

In Texas you can defer payment on your property taxes if you’re over 65, so there’s that. They are payable out of your estate, but not necessarily your problem as an individual.

The lack of state income tax is definitely not as important in retirement given that SS and potentially retirement/investment accounts are tax advantaged, or tax free if Roth.

Sales tax is relatively high. Public services for seniors are relatively low. So it’s a highly individualized question, the biggest variable probably being how you handle the property taxes.

Oh man, ,you think that Social Security is still going to have money in it by the time I retire? Or even Medicare? You really are an optimist. 

[royiv 9246]

31 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Sounds great! I think you’ll find you made the right choice. The suburbs with no kids - either as a young person or in retirement - seems just soul sucking.

The suburbs seem soul sucking. No need to qualify the statement.

[gmr548 16576]

Oh man, ,you think that Social Security is still going to have money in it by the time I retire? Or even Medicare? You really are an optimist. 

Hah. I certainly don’t plan on it. Just an example of retirement income that isn’t really taxed like income.

[troph 24781]

33 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Yeah, wanting some culture to go with your scenery will narrow it down quite a bit, as I'm sure you know.  I'd focus on areas around Durango, Telluride, Aspen (which you already are with Carbondale), Ouray.  

If you can give on that piece of it, then that opens up a lot more.  The Gunnison and Colorado rivers both have amazing fishing, but a lot of it is in the more remote parts of the state.  Gunnison is a cool town, though.

I'm still poking around.  I've found some incredible acreage / cabin rentals with fishing on property in places that aren't close to civilization that are very tempting.

the acceptable available housing stock for summer rentals in gunnsion seems to be almost non-existent. 

I've kind of ranked colorado south of 70 in my mind as follows: (1) telluride, (2) roaring fork valley (but not aspen), (3) gunnison, lake city, crested butte, (4) silverton, ouray, (5) durango, pagosa springs, and (7) colorado springs suburbs like woodland park, lake george, florissant, and (6) salida, buena vista, del norte area.

I haven't yet been to all but I have been to most of those areas and while I'd love a steal (relatively speaking) on real estate, when push comes to shove, the monied places end up having what I want like a tennis club and a decent food and music scene (and by decent music I really mean 4-5 options for some ok patio music). 

if we get our place for the summer in CO you should come throw a line in the water with us.

[troph 24781]

Texas is atrocious for retirees with the intensity of property tax. that's a suffocating tax for fixed income folks.

[Chewbacca 7766]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

I'm still poking around.  I've found some incredible acreage / cabin rentals with fishing on property in places that aren't close to civilization that are very tempting.

the acceptable available housing stock for summer rentals in gunnsion seems to be almost non-existent. 

I've kind of ranked colorado south of 70 in my mind as follows: (1) telluride, (2) roaring fork valley (but not aspen), (3) gunnison, lake city, crested butte, (4) silverton, ouray, (5) durango, pagosa springs, and (7) colorado springs suburbs like woodland park, lake george, florissant, and (6) salida, buena vista, del norte area.

I haven't yet been to all but I have been to most of those areas and while I'd love a steal (relatively speaking) on real estate, when push comes to shove, the monied places end up having what I want like a tennis club and a decent food and music scene (and by decent music I really mean 4-5 options for some ok patio music). 

if we get our place for the summer in CO you should come throw a line in the water with us.

I would put lake city way down the list.  It's a ghost town after October.  Everyone goes home and everything shuts down.  Not ideal for a full timer, and in the summer it's full of side by sides making noise all the fucking time.  Woodland Park would be down there with it.  I'm not a fan of the vibe in the Springs.  Can't go wrong with any of the others, though.  That's a pretty good list.  You can also go north of 70 and you get Steamboat and the Yampa river.  

[kevwun 15759]

On 7/11/2022 at 4:23 PM, Mdhorn said:

In another thread--Chopper I believe mentioned something similar.  I'll dig around and see if I can find it.  If nothing else, the thread is about relocating abroad so should be informative: 

Another place that I found interesting and enjoyed was Quito, Ecuador.  It's in the mountains so it's not terribly hot and there are lots of American expats. But alas, there are untapped resources in the region so....

Quito is a beautiful city.  It's still in South America though, so that would give me pause.  Shit can go bananas down there seemingly overnight.  The elevation would take some getting used to.  We were only there for a couple of days, but I drank water like I was dying of thirst in a desert and I didn't sleep very well at night.

Edited July 13, 2022 by kevwun

[Chewbacca 7766]

Just now, kevwun said:

Quito is a beautiful city.  It's still in South America though, so that would give me pause.  Shit can go bananas down there seemingly overnight.  The elevation would take some getting used to.  We were only there for a couple of days, but I drank water like I was dying of thirst in a desert and it I didn't sleep very well at night.

The sleeping part is interesting.  I sleep better in the mountains at 9k feet than I do in Denver at 5k.  Could be because I'm used to the elevation, though.

[kevwun 15759]

It's around 10k there and the highest I have ever been.  I've only been in the mountains a couple of times in my life, so I am not used to it at all.

Edited July 13, 2022 by kevwun

[troph 24781]

12 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I would put lake city way down the list.  It's a ghost town after October.  Everyone goes home and everything shuts down.  Not ideal for a full timer, and in the summer it's full of side by sides making noise all the fucking time.  Woodland Park would be down there with it.  I'm not a fan of the vibe in the Springs.  Can't go wrong with any of the others, though.  That's a pretty good list.  You can also go north of 70 and you get Steamboat and the Yampa river.  

I know nothing about north of 70. good intel on Lake City (it made my list because a lawyer friend and angler loves it but he only summers there). I like Lake George area for some odd reason, maybe because it's where I caught my first trout.  anyway, I think areas 1-4 will be our focus (deleting lake city). right now carbondale is affordable for our likes but a stretch. telluride is not affordable, I can pretend to afford seasonal access acreage 40 miles from telluride but that's about it. so that's why for CO we are where we are.  Bend OR opens a whole other option for us too but it's much less driveable when we think of a second place.

Edited July 13, 2022 by troph

[Beau Vine 54205]

35 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

The lack of state income tax is definitely not as important in retirement given that SS and potentially retirement/investment accounts are tax advantaged, or tax free if Roth.

Some states tax SS, including New Mexico, IIRC.

[Brew 3049]

11 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Some states tax SS, including New Mexico, IIRC.

Every state has different nuances on what they tax in retirement. The same goes for property taxes in retirement. It is further differentiated based on income levels in the same state and what is then taxed at those income levels. Sales tax catches everyone though so pay attention to that one as well.

[DaysOff 7947]

Some states tax SS, including New Mexico, IIRC.

We're in Santa Fe visiting friends right now for the first time. I'm sold. Has a somewhat mountain town vibe without the punishing winter of a Colorado mountain town.

[Beau Vine 54205]

Just now, DaysOff said:

We're in Santa Fe visiting friends right now for the first time. I'm sold. Has a somewhat mountain town vibe without the punishing winter of a Colorado mountain town.

Los Alamos is at the top of our list for retirement destinations.

[Chewbacca 7766]

4 hours ago, mchookem said:

update - under contract here in Denver...and ended up with pretty much the opposite of what we initially thought we'd get lol...instead of a giant half-empty house in the suburbs, we got a good-sized townhome in an excellent area much closer to the city center 😄 

fyi - surly mortgage/RE connections are aces🤘

this was the first place we looked at...then we looked at about 25 houses in every possible Denver suburb...then came back to look at this place again. the decision came down to this place vs. a gorgeous suburban home that i would have been equally comfortable in but would have been at least a 10-15 minute car ride to most everywhere. ultimately low maintenance and proximity to pretty much everything won out. 

i guess unlike most, we chose to continue our relatively urban lifestyle in retirement, at least for now. we'll be walking distance (<1 mile) to literally everything (grocery, park, gym, bars/restaurants, etc.). it has a small courtyard instead of a yard. i guess we really do just like the diversity and 'busyness' of city life. i'm pretty excited. 😊

i'll say this...you get a LOT more home for your money in Denver than we did in Austin. the property tax difference is mind-bottling lol, literally hundreds of dollars a month. yeah there's an income tax, but it's relatively low, and even lower for my other half b/c he's 65+.

anyways...just a report from a 2-week old Texpat 🙂🤘

Where did you end up?

[Mdhorn 5945]

2 hours ago, kevwun said:

Quito is a beautiful city.  It's still in South America though, so that would give me pause.  Shit can go bananas down there seemingly overnight.  The elevation would take some getting used to.  We were only there for a couple of days, but I drank water like I was dying of thirst in a desert and I didn't sleep very well at night.

Did alright in Quito, whereas thought I would die in Cusco.  How the Spaniards survived in armor I'll never know.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Mdhorn

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:

In Texas you can defer payment on your property taxes if you’re over 65, so there’s that. They are payable out of your estate, but not necessarily your problem as an individual.

The lack of state income tax is definitely not as important in retirement given that SS and potentially retirement/investment accounts are tax advantaged, or tax free if Roth.

Sales tax is relatively high. Public services for seniors are relatively low. So it’s a highly individualized question, the biggest variable probably being how you handle the property taxes.

Deferring Texas property tax is an option but you’re going in debt to the county. I suppose if someone has no other choice, it’s acceptable but I wouldn’t plan on deferring taxes. In Harris county, you pay 5% interest on that debt. Live long enough and your entire house value could go to paying the deferral.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

1 hour ago, DaysOff said:

We're in Santa Fe visiting friends right now for the first time. I'm sold. Has a somewhat mountain town vibe without the punishing winter of a Colorado mountain town.

I’ve never been but Santa Fe has intrigued me. Certain areas of New Mexico sound great but I’m turned off by rankings where NM is frequently listed as one of the worse states to live. Does Albuquerque drag the whole state down?

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

5 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Look at noted "blue states" Oregon and Washington:

Right, but the difference is the rural doesn't get to dominate the urban in the PNW.  The State will most likely align with what you believe, even if the small-town yokels do not.

Legal weed, abortion, and right to die (in Oregon).  We both know how that goes in red states. 

So, you and Al aren't wrong in that rural MAGA is all over.  But it doesn't impact you here like it does in a red state, imo.

 

 

[mchookem 16320]

28 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Where did you end up?

Lowry. we're only about 2 miles from our friends (where we're currently staying)...we just found the property online the night before we were going out for the first time to look at houses in person, had to send the address to our agent (he's GREAT btw! even if he is a sooner 😄) and say 'hey can we check this one out first since it's in the neighborhood?'

the price is what got our attention...i mean we weren't looking at anything even remotely in the city proper, definitely not near here... then this one pops up and looks too good to be true...but we just finished inspections today and it looks like it really IS true! 🤞

we're feeling pretty lucky/blessed tbh...just an incredible find, even our agent is kind of amazed! 🙂

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

4 hours ago, troph said:

fishing, weather, live music, food, tennis, golf, wifi, beautiful mountains, and cost. believe it or not I've found some affordable stuff in carbondale. bend too, but crested butte - which is too small, is too expensive. telluride is stupid expensive for house rentals.

I may post too much on these things, and its all opinion, but I'm going to give you some Bend cons in your list since I can sing the praises all day long.

Live music--> I have had some fun here and there, but what you find here will be the 'biggest' touring bands you get.   I had fun with some hardcore punk a few months back, but you're driving to Portland otherwise (a little over 3 hours).  Most of Bend really shuts down early.  Like 8-10 pm.  So if you're still active in Austin's scene, you will miss that.

"wifi"-->depends on the speeds you want, but anything over 25-30mb you're looking at Bend Broadband which has a monopoly here and gets complaints all the time.  They also are sneaky bastards who will up your bill while you're not paying attention. Then you get to call in and go through hell trying to get it back to what it was.  I've only had one 'serious' outage that interrupted my work day, but I read all the time about other people having to deal with them.  Austin had many more choices and options.

"cost"-->um, yeah.   We got lucky and bought our home right as Covid was shutting everything down.  I (and many) prefer the West side of Bend to the East side for various reasons.  I am not surly elite so in just one year my home went up to where I wouldn't afford it now.  In two years even more so.  Groceries are definitely higher here, imo.  And fuel, although not as bad as California in gas prices (but what is).  No sales tax, though, which is wild when you experience it the first few times.  And property taxes are more than reasonable.  Personal Income tax though, so maybe that's all a wash, depending on your situation.

weather-->I love the four seasons. It's great.  However, last summer for about a week the smoke from fires in Oregon and California got bad, and apparently this happens for at least a few days most years.  Knock on wood hasn't happened yet this year.   Last year, Christmas Day looked like we lived in a snow globe.  My first White Christmas ever.  Loved it.

The rest of your list, yeah, it's heaven.  

Edited July 13, 2022 by MC Fresh Breath

[Goredho 17394]

38 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I’ve never been but Santa Fe has intrigued me. Certain areas of New Mexico sound great but I’m turned off by rankings where NM is frequently listed as one of the worse states to live. Does Albuquerque drag the whole state down?

One thing I’ve learned — do your due diligence, but form your own opinions. That school that wouldn’t educate our kids I alluded to in my original post?  It is ranked as exemplary and in the top 5% of public schools in Texas.  They probably are for the 80% of students that learn just fine in a traditional fashion.  But they could not have been worse for our kids who are not.  The school that finally gave enough of a shit to educate our kids in Colorado is ranked in the 50th percentile.

 Your and your family’s happiness and well being is yours alone and not a list maker’s.  

[justhookit 4191]

9 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

moving to costa rica next week.  we will see if it sticks.

Congrats. Where are you going to be?  From what I’ve seen the people that move there and actually live there full time realize they love it or hate it really quickly.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

4 minutes ago, justhookit said:

Congrats. Where are you going to be?  From what I’ve seen the people that move there and actually live there full time realize they love it or hate it really quickly.

Guacima as of this weekend. It had been Atenas for the last six months, then we made a prep trip down there over the weekend and decided getting the kids to school was too hard so we called an audible.  Working out the lease with the new folks today. 

[Beau Vine 54205]

52 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I’ve never been but Santa Fe has intrigued me. Certain areas of New Mexico sound great but I’m turned off by rankings where NM is frequently listed as one of the worse states to live. Does Albuquerque drag the whole state down?

I don't live in NM, but I've extensively looked at moving there, so take this with a grain of salt, but to me... NM's problems are almost all caused by terrible public education.  The town I'm trying to retire to happens to have one of the highest % of citizens with graduate degrees in the country, and it's not a coincidence that its public schools are the best non-magnet schools in the state.

[Biggus Duckus 85]

26 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I may post too much on these things, and its all opinion, but I'm going to give you some Bend cons in your list since I can sing the praises all day long.

Live music--> I have had some fun here and there, but what you find here will be the 'biggest' touring bands you get.   I had fun with some hardcore punk a few months back, but you're driving to Portland otherwise (a little over 3 hours).  Most of Bend really shuts down early.  Like 8-10 pm.  So if you're still active in Austin's scene, you will miss that.

"wifi"-->depends on the speeds you want, but anything over 25-30mb you're looking at Bend Broadband which has a monopoly here and gets complaints all the time.  They also are sneaky bastards who will up your bill while you're not paying attention. Then you get to call in and go through hell trying to get it back to what it was.  I've only had one 'serious' outage that interrupted my work day, but I read all the time about other people having to deal with them.  Austin had many more choices and options.

"cost"-->um, yeah.   We got lucky and bought our home right as Covid was shutting everything down.  I (and many) prefer the West side of Bend to the East side for various reasons.  I am not surly elite so in just one year my home went up to where I wouldn't afford it now.  In two years even more so.  Groceries are definitely higher here, imo.  And fuel, although not as bad as California in gas prices (but what is).  No sales tax, though, which is wild when you experience it the first few times.  And property taxes are more than reasonable.  Personal Income tax though, so maybe that's all a wash, depending on your situation.

weather-->I love the four seasons. It's great.  However, last summer for about a week the smoke from fires in Oregon and California got bad, and apparently this happens for at least a few days most years.  Knock on wood hasn't happened yet this year.   Last year, Christmas Day looked like we lived in a snow globe.  My first White Christmas ever.  Loved it.

The rest of your list, yeah, it's heaven.  

I like Bend, but the people sometimes feel like clones:

-Patagonia jackets

-Trail running shoes

-Pickup/SUV with bike rack

-Weimaraner or German Short-Haired Pointer

-Two kids, always one boy and one girl

-New residents complaining about out-of-staters moving there

 

 

[Beau Vine 54205]

35 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Live music--> I have had some fun here and there, but what you find here will be the 'biggest' touring bands you get. 

You have Kenny Chesny doing *TWO* shows!!!  How much more can you ask for?

[justhookit 4191]

5 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Guacima as of this weekend. It had been Atenas for the last six months, then we made a prep trip down there over the weekend and decided getting the kids to school was too hard so we called an audible.  Working out the lease with the new folks today. 

Good luck. I remember you’ve spent a lot of time there. I’m headed down in a little over a week for 2 months which will make 5 months of living there this year. Still trying to work out the logistics of spending at least 6 months a year there every year.