The Texpatriates Thread

[Chewbacca 7,766]

51 minutes ago, Goredho said:

This isn’t me in the comments, but I agree wholeheartedly.  Colorado is a pretty well run state.

 

I was not a fan of Polis before he was elected and I did not vote for him the last time around.  I will be voting for him in November.  I think he's done a fantastic job of running the state, and I think he walked a fine line very effectively during COVID.  There were things that I wished he would have done differently, but at the end of the day I have zero complaints.

[Goredho 17,394]

3 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I was not a fan of Polis before he was elected and I did not vote for him the last time around.  I will be voting for him in November.  I think he's done a fantastic job of running the state, and I think he walked a fine line very effectively during COVID.  There were things that I wished he would have done differently, but at the end of the day I have zero complaints.

Yep, the biggest complaints I have are for stupid but ultimately meaningless things like "meat out" day. 

[mchookem 16,321]

as a literal brand-new Coloradoan, i don't quite know how to feel about competent, rational state leadership.

i...i need to sit with this feeling a bit and let it sink in. 🙃

[Sbbruin 21,829]

17 minutes ago, mchookem said:

as a literal brand-new Coloradoan, i don't quite know how to feel about competent, rational state leadership.

i...i need to sit with this feeling a bit and let it sink in. 🙃

wait, this is a real thing?  

[South Austin 52,448]

I’m going to Breckenridge on Saturday for a week vacation. Debating about whether to come back.

[crash_davis 23,096]

https://www.mysanantonio.com/lifestyle/article/Texans-leaving-moving-out-of-state-17339039.php

TLDR: 4 people moved out of state and share their reasons why and their experiences.

 

Texas truly is a state of mind. The Hill country is nice but it's nothing special compared to other hill country terrain type places across the country. The Texas coast is nice until you compare it to other beaches around the country, then you realize it's meh at best and Galveston at worst. The rest of the state is a flat wasteland. The only thing going for those flat places is that at least it's not Kansas, but even they were sane enough to vote to keep the freedom of choice, something the chicken shit Texas leadership will not do. True west Texas along the mountainous region is nice but who the fuck wants to live in a fucking desert. If you travel, you realize that Texas doesn't really have much to it in terms of geographic beauty. The people are nice, but now many of our former friends are fucking MAGAT shitheads. There's not much to keep you here if you have other choices.

I have 5 years max then the wife and I are moving to a mountainous region where global warming won't affect it so much. This is a huge consideration. Cooler temps and water. Looking forward to traveling 6+ months out of the year during retirement. Life is too short to live somewhere miserable. Learned that and got the fuck out of Houston. Remembered that and got the fuck out of Dallas. Reaffirming that and counting days until I can get the fuck out of Texas.

[CooterBrown 18,002]

I’m going to Breckenridge on Saturday for a week vacation. Debating about whether to come back.

[HornPhD 1,368]

On 6/22/2022 at 8:04 PM, Pancho said:

I decided to live in Oakland (😬) and my college is about 25 minutes souf of there. I’ll be East Bay mostly.  I probably won’t really go into SF until friends come to visit. 

 

Profit???

We’ve been in Oakland since 2010 and love it. Let me know if you need any recommendations. 

 

[Biff Tannen 45,664]

43 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

https://www.mysanantonio.com/lifestyle/article/Texans-leaving-moving-out-of-state-17339039.php

TLDR: 4 people moved out of state and share their reasons why and their experiences.

 

Texas truly is a state of mind. The Hill country is nice but it's nothing special compared to other hill country terrain type places across the country. The Texas coast is nice until you compare it to other beaches around the country, then you realize it's meh at best and Galveston at worst. The rest of the state is a flat wasteland. The only thing going for those flat places is that at least it's not Kansas, but even they were sane enough to vote to keep the freedom of choice, something the chicken shit Texas leadership will not do. True west Texas along the mountainous region is nice but who the fuck wants to live in a fucking desert. If you travel, you realize that Texas doesn't really have much to it in terms of geographic beauty. The people are nice, but now many of our former friends are fucking MAGAT shitheads. There's not much to keep you here if you have other choices.

I have 5 years max then the wife and I are moving to a mountainous region where global warming won't affect it so much. This is a huge consideration. Cooler temps and water. Looking forward to traveling 6+ months out of the year during retirement. Life is too short to live somewhere miserable. Learned that and got the fuck out of Houston. Remembered that and got the fuck out of Dallas. Reaffirming that and counting days until I can get the fuck out of Texas.

Mostly agree, but go watch Deep in the Heart on Amazon Prime for a reminder of some of the beauty and wildlife that Texas has.  

That said, I'm getting out ASAP.

[crash_davis 23,096]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Mostly agree, but go watch Deep in the Heart on Amazon Prime for a reminder of some of the beauty and wildlife that Texas has.  

That said, I'm getting out ASAP.

I've travel enough nationally and internationally to know that Texas does have nice, scenically beautiful areas. But those areas are nowhere unique to Texas. There are plenty of states which have just as, if not more, beautiful scenery and aren't batshit crazy, and with better climate. The hill country is beautiful. I would have been content with living and retiring in Austin. But with how fucked up this state has become politically, how MAGAT mentally ill Texas voters will keep voting them in power no matter how stupid their policies and decisions, the allure of Austin is not enough to keep me here. Add to the fat that the world is getting hot as fucking hell, that this summer is just another sign of things to come, Texas has way more cons than pros for living here. Obese MAGATs can have this state.

[Biff Tannen 45,664]

6 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

I've travel enough nationally and internationally to know that Texas does have nice, scenically beautiful areas. But those areas are nowhere unique to Texas. There are plenty of states which have just as, if not more, beautiful scenery and aren't batshit crazy, and with better climate. The hill country is beautiful. I would have been content with living and retiring in Austin. But with how fucked up this state has become politically, how MAGAT mentally ill Texas voters will keep voting them in power no matter how stupid their policies and decisions, the allure of Austin is not enough to keep me here. Add to the fat that the world is getting hot as fucking hell, that this summer is just another sign of things to come, Texas has way more cons than pros for living here. Obese MAGATs can have this state.

[Beau Vine 54,206]

7 hours ago, South Austin said:

I’m going to Breckenridge on Saturday for a week vacation. Debating about whether to come back.

We grudgingly drove back today.  Something about my wife having to go back to work or something stupid.

[StassneyHorn 6,573]

I might make a habit out of doing these. Remote worker programs.

Topeka Kansas will pay you to be a part of their vibrant, librool community that rejects Republican control over women. Vibrant art districts, growing craft beer community, international cuisine, and an entertaining downtown full of culture. Come see what all the fuss is about!

https://choosetopeka.com/apply/

 

 

[Eljefeweizen 34]

Headed to Taos next week. I let you know if I decide to return.

[Goredho 17,394]

On 8/3/2022 at 10:18 PM, StassneyHorn said:

I might make a habit out of doing these. Remote worker programs.

Topeka Kansas will pay you to be a part of their vibrant, librool community that rejects Republican control over women. Vibrant art districts, growing craft beer community, international cuisine, and an entertaining downtown full of culture. Come see what all the fuss is about!

https://choosetopeka.com/apply/

 

 

I have seen a few different states offer programs like that.  I wish I had saved them, would be nice to have a comprehensive list of state government programs offering relocation perks.

[StassneyHorn 6,573]

2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I have seen a few different states offer programs like that.  I wish I had saved them, would be nice to have a comprehensive list of state government programs offering relocation perks.

As you wish

https://www.makemymove.com

[Beau Vine 54,206]

11 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

As you wish

https://www.makemymove.com

Farmington NM really going all out:

[StassneyHorn 6,573]

Morgantown WV

Rochester NY

Vermont

Tulsa

NW Arkansas

All look good

[HenryJames 66,035]

Beaumont!

[Brisketexan 105,057]

15 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Farmington NM really going all out:

To be fair, Farmington giving up $191 is surrendering something like 10% of the local non-petroleum GDP.

[Pescado_Rojo 19,413]

9 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Beaumont!

A free gym membership?? I guess on the bright side, you'd be the only ones there whenever you went. 

[Beau Vine 54,206]

24 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Morgantown WV

Rochester NY

Vermont

Tulsa

NW Arkansas

All look good

You have very low standards.  

[Hefeweizen 5,310]

3 months in to California now.  No ragrets at all.  I’m really digging the overall lack of political excitement in my small town.  The biggest issues around here are people driving too fast and hitting baby seagulls, unleashed dogs raising hell, and the prices are too damn high.

 I member when I first got to Austin and it had a real laid back friendly vibe.  Don’t know where we lost it but everyone I still talk to there is just so beaten down by the heat, the politics, and the traffic, I can’t fathom doing that ever again.

I have a soft spot for the hill country and will miss town lake, Hamilton Pool, and Enchanted Rock but frankly Big Sur blows every other place I’ve been in the world out of the water for natural jaw dropping beauty.

[StassneyHorn 6,573]

42 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

You have very low standards.  

I enjoy nature. That’s a good list

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,669]

Yeah, nothing wrong with Tulsa and NW AR

[Neonmoon 38,129]

34 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

nothing wrong with Tulsa

[Beau Vine 54,206]

36 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Yeah, nothing wrong with Tulsa and NW AR

well, except that Tulsa is in Oklahoma, so by definition, you'll be surrounded by Okies.

[brakeman 28,354]

On 7/2/2022 at 10:51 PM, Biff Tannen said:

This is just good life advice overall @troph

 

I moved to DC [Tacoma] in 2003 on a horny chance and almost 20 years later.  It was the best decision of my life.

#1 free pre- k3 and pre-k4

During the COVID-19 years, free-after care and free-meals for the kiddos.

20-year-old me in texas, who is Picasso?

Free art galleries and zoo.

An underground metro alternative if you need to commute like that.

My commute for the last 20 years is the national rock creek park. Anybody else commutes in a national park?

Top-notch entrainment, 930, wolf trap, Kennedy center.

Our COVID-19 transmission rate in well below anything in the US.

I’m a 5^th generation Texan. I aint ever going back.

And it’s too late, My property value is dumb.

[Chewbacca 7,766]

@SmokeyTheBear sorry you have to leave soon. This has been one of the best summers I remember. Lots and lots of rain is an amazing thing.

[SmokeyTheBear 5,562]

9 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

@SmokeyTheBear sorry you have to leave soon. This has been one of the best summers I remember. Lots and lots of rain is an amazing thing.

Yeah it's been great. I was concerned with wild fires coming this late in the summer but the afternoon rains have been perfect. We're dreading leaving Monday. 

[APMP 688]

I was concerned with wild fires

Obligatory --- username checks out.

[atomheartbevo 89,625]

On 7/13/2022 at 4:00 PM, DaysOff said:

We're in Santa Fe visiting friends right now for the first time. I'm sold. Has a somewhat mountain town vibe without the punishing winter of a Colorado mountain town.

We visited NM last week, mainly southern area (Cloudcroft, etc.) but spent some time north.  Loved the temperatures being 20-30 degrees cooler than Austin.

I liked it, and talked to a lot of people about the winters around Cloudcroft, and they aren't bad if you are careful about where you live, and I like the easy access to El Paso, but also popping up to Santa Fe or Colorado if we want.

I know they exist, but unlike Texas, I didn't see much of a cultish view of politics (like I rarely saw Biden or Trump stickers on cars), which was nice, and it seemed like most cars that had such stickers were from Texas.  And man were there a fuckload of people visiting from Texas (when we were in the Cloudcroft area, seemed like half the town was visiting from Austin).  Also, a lot of the locals we came across seemed like the type who are keen on minding their own business, including in the rural area that we stayed in.  The few religious types we came across didn't seem intent on damning you to hell if you didn't agree with them.

Decent internet access in most places, and seemed like plenty of people got fast Amazon deliveries.

I had my heart set on New England, but could settle for New Mexico.

[Chewbacca 7,766]

22 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I know they exist, but unlike Texas, I didn't see much of a cultish view of politics (like I rarely saw Biden or Trump stickers on cars), which was nice, and it seemed like most cars that had such stickers were from Texas.  

Speaking for the CO mountains, whenever I see any Trump shit up there, odds are over 90% that the truck it is attached to has Texas plates.  

[Pescado_Rojo 19,413]

17 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Speaking for the CO mountains, whenever I see any Trump shit up there, odds are over 90% that the truck it is attached to has Texas plates.  

When the boy and I took our trout road trip in 2020, the difference was glaring. I didn't see a single Trump yard sign once we left Texas. And like you said, if I saw a Trump bumper sticker, it's was 99% connected to a truck with Texas plates towing a travel trailer going too slow in the fast lane. 

[royiv 9,247]

24 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Speaking for the CO mountains, whenever I see any Trump shit up there, odds are over 90% that the truck it is attached to has Texas plates.  

 

5 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

When the boy and I took our trout road trip in 2020, the difference was glaring. I didn't see a single Trump yard sign once we left Texas. And like you said, if I saw a Trump bumper sticker, it's was 99% connected to a truck with Texas plates towing a travel trailer going too slow in the fast lane. 

You guys must not have been paying attention. I was up in Denver two weeks ago visiting a buddy and saw plenty of Trump shit attached to big trucks with CO plates. Commented to my buddy about it as I was pretty surprised to see it. Rednecks are everywhere. That state sent Boebert to Congress.

[Chewbacca 7,766]

7 minutes ago, royiv said:

 

You guys must not have been paying attention. I was up in Denver two weeks ago visiting a buddy and saw plenty of Trump shit attached to big trucks with CO plates. Commented to my buddy about it as I was pretty surprised to see it. Rednecks are everywhere. That state sent Boebert to Congress.

Uh, I live here.  Rarely see Trump shit anymore, although if you go to the southern suburbs, you'll sometimes see it.  In the mountains you see it even less.

Boebert is the western slope and I don't spend any time there.  I'm sure there's more Trumpy shit there than the rest of the state.

[BrickHorn 18,216]

Man. As much as I hate the direction Texas is taking, I worry that all this politically-driven migration is going to further divide us into factions. It’s not good when politics align closely with geography, religion, and ethnicity. That dynamic often leads to civil war. 

I’m tempted to move somewhere purple or slightly red, but with a working class that could still be convinced that fascism is a terrible idea. Maybe the upper Midwest or something. Find a place with good people who have lost their way, and start a program to build community and civic mindedness. Give folks from all walks of life a healthy alternative to fascist rallies, someplace where they can find community and identity, but maybe use their brains a bit and expand their empathy and understanding instead of yelling stupid angry shit in a mindless call-and-response emceed by a human turd.

I don’t know. It sounds nuts but I really don’t know what else to do other than run for the liberal hills. Which only makes the overall situation that much worse, and makes it less likely that leftist enclaves will be safe for very long.

[Goredho 17,394]

14 minutes ago, royiv said:

 

You guys must not have been paying attention. I was up in Denver two weeks ago visiting a buddy and saw plenty of Trump shit attached to big trucks with CO plates. Commented to my buddy about it as I was pretty surprised to see it. Rednecks are everywhere. That state sent Boebert to Congress.

It's here, but not in the resort areas.  We have reasons to be in Fremont, Custer and Park county quite a bit.  Those counties are rural, relatively poor, relatively uneducated, and relatively republican.  As such, they are relatively full of people who very outwardly support Trump.

Colorado is reliably blue, but there are pockets of deep red.  The two biggest things I've seen to look at in Colorado as far as whether a place is worth a shit to live or not are voting choices and tax rates.  If a county voted red in 2016 and 2020 national elections, and if it is has cheap tax rates, it is a shit hole.  The voting records give you an idea of the prevailing political ideology, and the tax rates reflect how much people want to invest in their community.  Low tax rates equate to shitty roads, shitty schools, shitty public health, shitty etc...

 

 

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

24 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Man. As much as I hate the direction Texas is taking, I worry that all this politically-driven migration is going to further divide us into factions. It’s not good when politics align closely with geography, religion, and ethnicity. That dynamic often leads to civil war. 

I’m tempted to move somewhere purple or slightly red, but with a working class that could still be convinced that fascism is a terrible idea. Maybe the upper Midwest or something. Find a place with good people who have lost their way, and start a program to build community and civic mindedness. Give folks from all walks of life a healthy alternative to fascist rallies, someplace where they can find community and identity, but maybe use their brains a bit and expand their empathy and understanding instead of yelling stupid angry shit in a mindless call-and-response emceed by a human turd.

I don’t know. It sounds nuts but I really don’t know what else to do other than run for the liberal hills. Which only makes the overall situation that much worse, and makes it less likely that leftist enclaves will be safe for very long.

I too plan to move to Iowa and start a cult. Probably something with corn, they love that shit. 

[Beau Vine 54,206]

57 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I don’t know. It sounds nuts but I really don’t know what else to do other than run for the liberal hills. Which only makes the overall situation that much worse, and makes it less likely that leftist enclaves will be safe for very long.

I don't need to find a "leftist enclave."  I just need to get the fuck out of Texas, because if we're being honest, this has literally turned into possibly the shittiest state in the country in the past 20 years.  

[Biff Tannen 45,664]

2 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

I worry that all this politically-driven migration is going to further divide us into factions. It’s not good when politics align closely with geography, religion, and ethnicity. That dynamic often leads to civil war. 

[closetohumping 17,433]

Been gone for close to ten years no ragerts. Miss the food and people (some). Don’t miss the weather 

[South Austin 52,448]

No blasturnace, legal weed, politics that aren’t batshit crazy, and views like this. It’s going to suck stepping off that plane in Austin on Friday afternoon.

[LTbear 4,168]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:25 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Mostly agree, but go watch Deep in the Heart on Amazon Prime for a reminder of some of the beauty and wildlife that Texas has.  

That said, I'm getting out ASAP.

I love the documentary, but as a biologist who understands the populations of Texas wildlife, it's almost more a mourning what's lost than celebrating what's here. Sure, Texas has mountain lions - a few dozen to a couple hundred that are hunted without restriction, while other states have thousands and regulated hunting seasons. Texas has a coast that some dolphins visit, but it is nothing compared to the rocky coastal of the Pacific with seals, sea lions, dolphins, tidal pools, and whales galore. Texas has a few struggling black bears while other states have tens of thousands of the same (and sometimes grizzlies, too). Texas was once one of the very few states with two species of native wolf; there are obviously have zero now. Texas has a big deer herd that is there only because of the habitat opened up by the lack of elk, bison, pronghorn, and bighorn (there are a few very small populations of those in tightly controlled areas). Most importantly, Texas has Big Bend, the Guadalupes, and then almost zero large tracts of intact ecosystem, because hardly any of Texas is preserved, whereas other western states have hundreds and hundreds of square miles of wilderness that is formally protected. The Texas wildlands do not have near enough the acreage, much less the interconnections, to maintain much in the way of wild character a d wildlife habitat.

Texas has a few small pockets of relic wildness, but that wildness is more akin to viewing a large zoo or museum exhibit than it is to seeing any true wild. The Big Bend area is the lone exception.

Rant over. I loved growing up in Texas, but I can never move back. Montana is home now. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by LTbear

[closetohumping 17,433]

I'm TTT this beyotch.

Recently I've had thoughts of moving back to Texas.  After all it's home and I've got great friends (both sides, yes, I'm one of dem yella bellied moderate libertarians).  Great food, family is there.  But my parents are still crazy busy.  And the weather, I gotta say it, I'm in DC at the moment and the heat is killing me.  Texas is likely worse.  I can't believe it's as big a factor.

 

I've lived across this country.  Denver, Seattle, Boston, DC, and now OC.  I'd move back to any of them though Denver is probably last on that list.  Looking at cashing in and leaving the OC and just live a calmer life.  Looking more north though.  Philly burbs, Chicago, and now possibly Portland.  

 

 

Some of you were talking about Bend.  That area is beautiful, but I think quite conservative.

[closetohumping 17,433]

I'm in tech.  I've thought about Raleigh, but I've also heard that once you get out of Raleigh, it's really the south.

 

Going to respond to the rural/urban divide comments.  Yes, it's the #1 factor and yes, California has the most Trump voters.  But the conservatives out here arent' quite as extreme as the south or midwest.  They just like their money.  They care jack shitt about abortion rights or trans rights.  They're just like "whatever man."  Alot of the rural areas here are full of minorities.

[Biff Tannen 45,664]

2 hours ago, LTbear said:

I love the documentary, but as a biologist who understands the populations of Texas wildlife, it's almost more a mourning what's lost than celebrating what's here. Sure, Texas has mountain lions - a few dozen to a couple hundred that are hunted without restriction, while other states have thousands and regulated hunting seasons. Texas has a coast that some dolphins visit, but it is nothing compared to the rocky coastal of the Pacific with seals, sea lions, dolphins, tidal pools, and whales galore. Texas has a few struggling black bears while other states have tens of thousands of the same (and sometimes grizzlies, too). Texas was once one of the very few states with two species of native wolf; there are obviously have zero now. Texas has a big deer herd that is there only because of the habitat opened up by the lack of elk, bison, pronghorn, and bighorn (there are a few very small populations of those in tightly controlled areas). Most importantly, Texas has Big Bend, the Guadalupes, and then almost zero large tracts of intact ecosystem, because hardly any of Texas is preserved, whereas other western states have hundreds and hundreds of square miles of wilderness that is formally protected. The Texas wildlands do not have near enough the acreage, much less the interconnections, to maintain much in the way of wild character a d wildlife habitat.

Texas has a few small pockets of relic wildness, but that wildness is more akin to viewing a large zoo or museum exhibit than it is to seeing any true wild. The Big Bend area is the lone exception.

Rant over. I loved growing up in Texas, but I can never move back. Montana is home now. 

Fully agree.  I think that's basically what Ben Masters is trying to do with his films.  Point out how little we have, why that is, and what we can do to protect that little bit.  

The completely different mindset about public land that Texans have compared to people in the west is wild.  I remember when we took my FIL to the Canadian Rockies, his first question was, "who owns all of this?"  The notion of public land for someone who has grown up in small town Texas on a farm his whole life was mind blowing.

 

[closetohumping 17,433]

On 6/24/2022 at 6:49 PM, Zepol87 said:

It is pretty damn close but with the family discount I think I will be alright and it is right outside Garden of the Gods. I can deal with that

I prefer Denver over the Springs, but the Springs is far more diverse and cosmopolitan than CS

[Goredho 17,394]

2 hours ago, LTbear said:

I love the documentary, but as a biologist who understands the populations of Texas wildlife, it's almost more a mourning what's lost than celebrating what's here. Sure, Texas has mountain lions - a few dozen to a couple hundred that are hunted without restriction, while other states have thousands and regulated hunting seasons. Texas has a coast that some dolphins visit, but it is nothing compared to the rocky coastal of the Pacific with seals, sea lions, dolphins, tidal pools, and whales galore. Texas has a few struggling black bears while other states have tens of thousands of the same (and sometimes grizzlies, too). Texas was once one of the very few states with two species of native wolf; there are obviously have zero now. Texas has a big deer herd that is there only because of the habitat opened up by the lack of elk, bison, pronghorn, and bighorn (there are a few very small populations of those in tightly controlled areas). Most importantly, Texas has Big Bend, the Guadalupes, and then almost zero large tracts of intact ecosystem, because hardly any of Texas is preserved, whereas other western states have hundreds and hundreds of square miles of wilderness that is formally protected. The Texas wildlands do not have near enough the acreage, much less the interconnections, to maintain much in the way of wild character a d wildlife habitat.

Texas has a few small pockets of relic wildness, but that wildness is more akin to viewing a large zoo or museum exhibit than it is to seeing any true wild. The Big Bend area is the lone exception.

Rant over. I loved growing up in Texas, but I can never move back. Montana is home now. 

 

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Fully agree.  I think that's basically what Ben Masters is trying to do with his films.  Point out how little we have, why that is, and what we can do to protect that little bit.  

The completely different mindset about public land that Texans have compared to people in the west is wild.  I remember when we took my FIL to the Canadian Rockies, his first question was, "who owns all of this?"  The notion of public land for someone who has grown up in small town Texas on a farm his whole life was mind blowing.

 

These are both spot on takes.  I didn't realize until I had spent time outside of Texas what a luxury the vast swaths of protected, public land in the west are.  Colorado and Utah are both full of public land that you can just go use.  Popular trailheads close to population centers get crowded, but if you are willing to drive a bit and then walk a bit, you can have complete solitude in the wild that is already paid for by your taxes.  In Texas, I always felt a pull towards needing to some day own ranchland to really be able to get away from it all.  That is not necessary here.

[Goredho 17,394]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I prefer Denver over the Springs, but the Springs is far more diverse and cosmopolitan than CS

The Springs is just heavily military with the AFA, Fort Carson, Cheyenne Mountain, Peterson AFB and Schriever AFB and that skews it conservative.  It is not full of evangelists and white nationalists.