Surly Olds (and Super Olds...looking at you Army Brat), Is the current state of the country the most divided in your lifetime?

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I don't think I have ever started a thread in CR.  Frankly, I feel kind of dirty doing so.  Regardless, I am curious to hear from our elder statesmen about the state of our country.  I want to hear from folks that were at least in their late teens in the 60s.  Is the US more divided and full of hate and anxiety than say, 1968?  Did the late 60s feel like another civil war was somewhat a possibility?  I remember as a teenager/20 something in the 90s thinking "this must be similar to the 60s...we have a war, they had a war, their music rocked, our music rocked, etc"...but now looking back, I was wrong.

So where do we stand?

[Bullneck 18987]

I was wondering the same thing myself.  I was in my early teens during Watergate and now wonder if the vibe then is anywhere near what it is now.  The US seems to be on verge of coming unglued.

 

[Incredulity 11555]

I will pile on.  i would be extremely interested in hearing first hand accounts of anyone who was getting it on prior to Roe regarding your concern or ability to access an abortion.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

I don’t believe the population is as divided as we are intentionally led to believe.  Most everyone wants the same things.  Our problems are more structural than ideological which make them more difficult to overcome. 

[fattyflattie 4636]

This has been broached before. My recollection is it was really fucking tense during some of the civil rights movement. Probably largely dependent on where you lived. 

[F250 28691]

Brat is going to tell us about the War of Northern Aggression.

 

[4th&Five 41461]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I don’t believe the population is as divided as we are intentionally led to believe.  Most everyone wants the same things.  Our problems are more structural than ideological which make them more difficult to overcome. 

This. We have a court passing laws that the vast majority of Americans don’t agree with. 

[Serak The Preparer 3424]

If you want @Armybrat in this thread should probably tag him. I suspect he doesn't routinely browse CR.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

For as tense as things seem to be now, I would think late 60s was worse. People getting drafted into a hellhole and dying by the thousands. Unarmed students getting murdered at protests. Iconic leaders being assassinated. That’s some heavy shit. 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Don’t get me wrong, my posting this topic is definitely influenced by today’s unfortunate and fascist event, but also it’s about he general mood of the Union. This is definitely the most fucked up I have seen it. For relevance, I will be 46 in September.

[Irwin F Fletcher 3550]

I'm 50 and these last few years have been eye opening. I honestly don't think we can repair/move forward.

That breaks me.

It will take a world changing event to reunite this country.

[Covri 6231]

Lol at y’all thinking armybrat is going to give you an unbiased opinion of life in the 50s,60s,70s. Y’all read his posts? His gun collection? He was likely was yelling at people advocating change. 

[4th&Five 41461]

I never thought I’d live through a coup attempt where the incumbent’s supporters were trying to hang his own vp, so that seems pretty unprecedented. 

[F250 28691]

3 minutes ago, Covri said:

Lol at y’all thinking armybrat is going to give you an unbiased opinion of life in the 50s,60s,70s. Y’all read his posts? His gun collection? He was likely was yelling at people advocating change. 

Well, there was that one post where he bitched about all the Comanches (they were Mexican) in South Austin.

Edited June 25, 2022 by F250

[Satchel 6908]

27 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

This. We have a court passing laws that the vast majority of Americans don’t agree with. 

And a Congress refusing to pass legislation supported by the voting public.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

And a Congress refusing to pass legislation supported by the voting public.

Serious question, has congress ever passed a law that was sincerely supported by the voting public?

[formermav43 4599]

10 minutes ago, Covri said:

Lol at y’all thinking armybrat is going to give you an unbiased opinion of life in the 50s,60s,70s. Y’all read his posts? His gun collection? He was likely was yelling at people advocating change. 

Lol at thinking opinions can be unbiased.

[fattyflattie 4636]

22 minutes ago, Covri said:

Lol at y’all thinking armybrat is going to give you an unbiased opinion of life in the 50s,60s,70s. Y’all read his posts? His gun collection? He was likely was yelling at people advocating change. 

Oh no. Guns? Fuck that guy and his recollection of events. 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6555]

7 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Serious question, has congress ever passed a law that was sincerely supported by the voting public?

ACA was pretty popular.  Now Obamacare was extremely unpopular.  Shows how dumb some of our citizens are.

This is actually a good question.  The big legislation like Civil Rights, Voting Act, Womens Suffrage, shit abolition of slavery all had probably half the country on the wrong side of history.  

[Covri 6231]

7 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Lol at thinking opinions can be unbiased.

Great contribution. He can give his experience and we can read between the lines.  

[Covri 6231]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Oh no. Guns? Fuck that guy and his recollection of events. 

You should probably just focus on defending yourself and not other posters. 

[fattyflattie 4636]

Just now, Covri said:

You should probably just focus on defending yourself and not other posters. 

You should probably focus in being less of a little bitch.
Have you ever seen his guns!?!?  Dry your pants honey, it’s going to be ok. 

[Satchel 6908]

21 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Serious question, has congress ever passed a law that was sincerely supported by the voting public?

The ACA, despite being demagogued to hell and back, enjoyed and enjoys widespread support.

[Ag with kids 581]

I think the fact that Aaron Burr killed Alexander Hamilton due to a political slur might mean this era isn't quite as contentious has it has been in the past...

[tigol 2383]

2 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

I think the fact that Aaron Burr killed Alexander Hamilton due to a political slur might mean this era isn't quite as contentious has it has been in the past...

Go.Away.You.Shit.Heap.

 

[Ag with kids 581]

22 minutes ago, tigol said:

Go.Away.You.Shit.Heap.

 

That's quite an eloquent response.

 

Golf clap!

[Biggus Duckus 79]

I'd be curious to hear old timer thoughts as well.  I imagine things were worse in the '60s, but now we have elected officials who show an unpresidented level of cruelty and idiocy, which they weaponize to shape their agendas.

[Hermanator 6944]

18 minutes ago, Biggus Duckus said:

I'd be curious to hear old timer thoughts as well.  I imagine things were worse in the '60s, but now we have elected officials who show an unpresidented level of cruelty and idiocy, which they weaponize to shape their agendas.

Things are way worse today because our system is so much farther down the broken path than it was in the 60s. 

Now we have a Supreme Court that is purely politicized, the judiciary is politicized as a whole, and the Republicans were allowed to gerrymander their states to pad the house. 

I mean we just had one party attempt to overthrow the government and establish their president as a dictator AND that party has control of the Supreme Court and is on track to gain the house and senate again. 

The outlook has never been worse in the modern era of this country. 

[Hermanator 6944]

I can see 2 scenarios going forward. 

1) the population just takes it and becomes purely trampled on like Russians, North Koreans, etc

2) the population fights back and we have a sort of civil war with political assassinations ramping back up. 

Just recently we had an attempted assassination on one of the politicized Supreme Court justices and I can see that getting ramped up as things get worse. 

[RPM 26229]

It's close to where it was in the 60's. Problem is the majority of politicians still had some sense of morals. Now it's the minority. Back then politicians relied on donations from constituents for the majority of their campaign funds, so they had to listen to their desires. Now it's dark PAC cash. Hell, it may be worse now than then.

[HenryJames 65890]

Y’all realize that @Armybrat fired on Fort Sumpter, right?

[AnTiM 1659]

My opinion is "Same shit, different day".  Apparently no one believes that those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

7 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

For as tense as things seem to be now, I would think late 60s was worse. People getting drafted into a hellhole and dying by the thousands. Unarmed students getting murdered at protests. Iconic leaders being assassinated. That’s some heavy shit. 

Well, yeah, there were more imminent personal threats in the Vietnam/Civil Rights eras.  But Soviet and Chinese communism were still an animating threat.  We don't have one of those anymore, at least outside the country.

I have seen, but not dove into, several articles positing that the fall of communism and the lack of a long-term animating enemy, are what let the two political parties fall into disarray.

[Aqua Buddha 14521]

In the 60's, the federal government literally invaded the South just so black kids could go to school.

[South Austin 52144]

Things would be better if Mack hadn’t fucked up the Nick Saban hire.

[immamac 42519]

I asked this question to some folks that I know and trust that lived in DC for the majority of their adult lives. Not politicians, but people obviously close to what's happening at the heart of our government.

They said this is nowhere even close to where we were in the 60s. All that tells me is we need to ramp it the fuck up. What happened in the 60s caused change. We are just bitching in the street and whining on Twitter and the internet. 

[TwiceHorn 31283]

8 minutes ago, immamac said:

I asked this question to some folks that I know and trust that lived in DC for the majority of their adult lives. Not politicians, but people obviously close to what's happening at the heart of our government.

They said this is nowhere even close to where we were in the 60s. All that tells me is we need to ramp it the fuck up. What happened in the 60s caused change. We are just bitching in the street and whining on Twitter and the internet. 

Mmmm, I might say that change (Brown v. Bd. of Educ.) provoked the unrest, which led to more change.

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

I'll be 50 in a little over a week so I missed the Civil Rights division.  But during my lifetime this is the most divided I've seen the country since the early 1980's great debate over "Tastes great / Less filling".  Thankfully the nation survived those turbulent times.

 

 

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

This ain't jack shit compared to the Civil Rights Era and even Vietnam.

This shit is invisible in the real world if you get offline or stop looking at the TV. The protests are tiny/non-existent.

[immamac 42519]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This ain't jack shit compared to the Civil Rights Era and even Vietnam.

This shit is invisible in the real world if you get offline or stop looking at the TV. The protests are tiny/non-existent.

Even BLM stuff was a joke compared to what we need to do to get real change. 

I was against doing anything to the judicial branch, but now I think it's time to show how much of a farce it really is. Expand it to 40. Confirm them all then pass a law saying you don't replace anyone until at least 33 of them die or resign. 

[immamac 42519]

6 minutes ago, sportsbay said:

This is correct.  We are at the end of an enormous credit cycle.  The economic pie has begun to shrink for all people.  It's at these times in history when the potential for ecomic growth shrinks that people of differing idealogical world views start to point fingers.  That's how war starts.

 

You want to effect some change, love your neighbor as yourself.  This means giving to the homeless shelters, growing food for your red/blue relative, building networks of support, respecting what others believe, respecting life (including the unborn), and sharing what you have.  We focus on the political fallout now but there is a time coming when the econmic fallout will erase what we are fighting over and will leave only financial hardship for most.  The next 10 years are going to be HARSH.  Think of it this way, much of worldwide debt is going to be erased off of the banking ledgers...... how much pain will this cause?

 

This is incorrect. This all gets solved by voting. Don't help anyone who doesn't vote. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

30 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This ain't jack shit compared to the Civil Rights Era and even Vietnam.

This shit is invisible in the real world if you get offline or stop looking at the TV. The protests are tiny/non-existent.

Exactly. Either things really aren’t nearly as bad, or our culture has degenerated to where young people are unable to coherently and effectively mobilize to change things. Probably both. 
 

I wasn’t born yet, but just look at the music. 
 

This

 

Versus today’s drivel. Unfortunately I’ve checked more back into today’s pop music because of my kids, and there’s not a lot of substance. 

[atomheartbevo 89449]

9 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

For as tense as things seem to be now, I would think late 60s was worse. People getting drafted into a hellhole and dying by the thousands. Unarmed students getting murdered at protests. Iconic leaders being assassinated. That’s some heavy shit. 

56 minutes ago, immamac said:

I asked this question to some folks that I know and trust that lived in DC for the majority of their adult lives. Not politicians, but people obviously close to what's happening at the heart of our government.

They said this is nowhere even close to where we were in the 60s. All that tells me is we need to ramp it the fuck up. What happened in the 60s caused change. We are just bitching in the street and whining on Twitter and the internet. 

I’ve talked to my parents and aunts and uncles (all older than armybrat) about some of this stuff over the last 6 months or so.

They all said this is nothing compared to the 60s.  They said JFK, MLK, and RFK being assassinated was traumatic as hell compared to todays events, that nothing these days compares to those things, and toss in Vietnam and civil rights on top of the assassinations.  One aunt said “imagine it’s 2008 and Obama gets the Democratic nomination and then is assassinated. That’s where we were at in the late 60s.”

I think @bad_teammate has it right - if you turn off the tv or get off the internet and just go into stores or to parks or restaurants or whatever, you could easily miss out on people being upset.  The 60s though, you couldn’t miss a lot of that stuff.  You knew somebody being drafted or already in Vietnam, etc.,

[atomheartbevo 89449]

5 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

I wasn’t born yet, but just look at the music. 

I have a friend who did their master’s thesis on 60s protest music.  Some amazing music driven by a shitload of despair, angst, and anger.  Today's youth aren’t experiencing the kind of shit that would drive such music. It’s extremely easy for them to check out on societal changes and challenges/conflicts because they aren’t being drafted or know somebody that is, etc., and because they can shut themselves off from the stuff they don’t like and have plenty of distractions.  

Now our TV shows that are inspired by the real world, even if only slightly, have some real dystopian shit going on, and it’s no coincidence that those show runners are in their 40s and on up.

[David Dennison 18661]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

This ain't jack shit compared to the Civil Rights Era and even Vietnam.

This shit is invisible in the real world if you get offline or stop looking at the TV. The protests are tiny/non-existent.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Just google "60s riots".

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

We had a coordinated effort by a president to take the office for an additional term despite losing the electoral college and the popular vote. He had help from lawyers, members of Congress, members of state houses, the wife of a Supreme Court justice, people in the military, far right militia groups, and some in the DOJ. 
 

And yet, the media and seemingly everyone just keeps on going as if it was a minor disagreement in tax policy between two equal and legitimate candidates. Failing to punish those at the top - or even take it seriously- for literally trying to topple 200+ years of American Democracy has fucked us beyond repair.  
 

Add to this the fact that local elections are gerrymandered so precisely that the outcome isn’t really seriously in doubt - it becomes impossible to create change from the voting booth. 
 

We are at an inflection point SCOTUS throwing out right to choose and inviting states to criminalize people for being gay. I don’t believe the public will tolerate this. I can’t predict what happens next, but forcing the criminalization of abortion, contraception, and other popular conduct will have a major back lash

[bad_teammate 13132]

The youth ain't the problem, it's the olds that are the problem.

And the music don't make a shit, either.

"When it became obvious what a dumb and cruel and spiritually and financially and militarily ruinous mistake our war in Vietnam was, every artist worth a damn in this country, every serious writer, painter, stand-up comedian, musician, actor and actress, you name it, came out against the thing. We formed what might be described as a laser beam of protest, with everybody aimed in the same direction, focused and intense. This weapon proved to have the power of a banana-cream pie three feet in diameter when dropped from a stepladder five-feet high."

- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

It's a never-ending war. We lose battles.

[Armybrat 40744]

8 hours ago, Ag with kids said:

I think the fact that Aaron Burr killed Alexander Hamilton due to a political slur might mean this era isn't quite as contentious has it has been in the past...

You are correct. While the populace gets riled up, we are not seeing the vastly more deadly riots of our historical past.

i think the SCOTUS was Constitutionally correct on both rulings.

However,  I also think the Texas anti-abortion law has way too much of a fascist element to it and is far too restrictive. That opinion is from a “prolifer”. 

Added note to address the haters: My firearms collection has as much to do with mass murderers as y’all’s BMWs do with the mass murder committed by drunk drivers, or your computers do with government propagandists.

That’s all from me, as I very rarely, if ever, even glance at this forum. 
I only replied here after seeing a notification thingamajig up top..And in deference to the OP.

Good day, fellow assholes.

OU sucks, and Hook’em… 

[Armybrat 40744]

3 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Y’all realize that @Armybrat fired on Fort Sumpter, right?

I’ll have you know my direct paternal & maternal ancestors were Unionists and volunteered for the Union Army. Two served in combat.

[David Dennison 18661]

9 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

We are at an inflection point SCOTUS throwing out right to choose and inviting states to criminalize people for being gay. I don’t believe the public will tolerate this. I can’t predict what happens next, but forcing the criminalization of abortion, contraception, and other popular conduct will have a major back lash

We'll find out in four months.