Succession -- HBO

[Ted Lange 16110]

 

 

[Guest Lobo]

Gotta give it to Alan Ruck for aging well.  He's 10 years to the day, younger than Brian Cox.  Great finale.  At the risk of repeating myself, this went from a stop-gap show last summer to probably the best thing on TV right now.  The writing is approaching Twainian levels. 

[Ben Tobin 374]

23 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

Part of me thinks this is what Logan wanted to happen.  He goaded Kendall into becoming the killer.

When he was watching it, you would'v expected Logan to throw a tantrum.  Instead, he calmly put his finger to his lips and told everyone to hush and listen.

This.  Logan laid it all out for Shiv but when she wouldn't/couldn't choose between Tom and Ken, he knew she didn't have what it takes.  He pushed every button he had on Ken and when Ken came through, Logan was one proud Papa.

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

7 minutes ago, Ben Tobin said:

This.  Logan laid it all out for Shiv but when she wouldn't/couldn't choose between Tom and Ken, he knew she didn't have what it takes.  He pushed every button he had on Ken and when Ken came through, Logan was one proud Papa.

I disagree with this take. I think Logan is interested in self preservation and honestly Tom isn’t high enough for shareholders to give a shit. Kendall leaving made sense or at least Logan could credibly make the case heads were rolling.  I think the smile at the end was in spite of himself Logan respected the power move. 
 

[Ben Tobin 374]

19 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I disagree with this take. I think Logan is interested in self preservation and honestly Tom isn’t high enough for shareholders to give a shit. Kendall leaving made sense or at least Logan could credibly make the case heads were rolling.  I think the smile at the end was in spite of himself Logan respected the power move. 
 

Agree to disagree.  Seems to me the central plot to the series is who succeeds Logan.  Tom was simply a test for Shiv.  Roman did well enough but couldn't definitively close.  This has always been about Logan training his kids to be ruthless corporate killers.  He just needed to see who learned the lessons best.  Ken killed the King.

[Don Johnson 4754]

15 minutes ago, Ben Tobin said:

Agree to disagree.  Seems to me the central plot to the series is who succeeds Logan.  Tom was simply a test for Shiv.  Roman did well enough but couldn't definitively close.  This has always been about Logan training his kids to be ruthless corporate killers.  He just needed to see who learned the lessons best.  Ken killed the King.

Agree, and in hindsight think it would've actually been a good ending for the series, not just the season.

[TwiceHorn 31512]

12 hours ago, Lobo said:

Gotta give it to Alan Ruck for aging well.  He's 10 years to the day, younger than Brian Cox.  Great finale.  At the risk of repeating myself, this went from a stop-gap show last summer to probably the best thing on TV right now.  The writing is approaching Twainian levels. 

He was aging well 33 years ago playing an 18 year old Cameron Frye at age 30.

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

I get that this show is about who takes over from Logan, but we’re watching different shows if you think Logan wants anything other than maintaining his own power. I don’t think he ever has had genuine intentions to do so. See Kendall, season 1 and Shiv, this season with the Pierce deal. 

[Ted Lange 16110]

Logan was actually supposed to die in season 1.  They wrote that out as the show developed though, thankfully.

[Guest Lobo]

4 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I get that this show is about who takes over from Logan, but we’re watching different shows if you think Logan wants anything other than maintaining his own power. I don’t think he ever has had genuine intentions to do so. See Kendall, season 1 and Shiv, this season with the Pierce deal. 

Everyone, who has built anything meaningful, eventually legacy shops even for only a tiny amount.  

[bonnieblue 542]

But Shiv did choose between Kendall and Tom. They showed that her and Logan had a private meeting where she had pitched Kendall as the best choice, and then again later chose Kendall (or "not Tom"). She kind of waffled initially with the "don't make me choose", but she still did make her choice. Agree that Logan likely didn't find it sufficiently cut throat though.

[Ted Lange 16110]

Tom, the modern day Leeroy Jenkins

 

 

 

 

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

On 10/14/2019 at 10:54 AM, babysdaddy said:

the grin was absolutely paternal pride.  great season and great finale

I think Shiv, Roman, and Kendall were all in on it.

I could be totally off but I think Shiv saying she couldn't decide was all part of their plan forcing Logan into offing the one person that they wanted all along for him to cut for their plan to work.  And Logan was indeed impressed. 

[Guest Lobo]

It's almost like he wanted it because he usually has Marcia with him at shit like this whispering sweet nothings into his ear.  She has no problem undercutting him and acting a shitheap when they're alone, but she's always willing to sweep the kids under the rug and fuck 'em up to boost his ego.  He wanted her out of the picture.  Her only mention was her shitty taste in yacht decorating.  

[Mojo Hand 4580]

5 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I disagree with this take. I think Logan is interested in self preservation and honestly Tom isn’t high enough for shareholders to give a shit. Kendall leaving made sense or at least Logan could credibly make the case heads were rolling.  I think the smile at the end was in spite of himself Logan respected the power move. 
 

I agree with you 100%.   There was no genius, complicated plan by Logan to have all of these perfect pieces fall into place.   It's as simple as, he's a narcissistic prick who was sacrificing his son to save himself, and Kendall decided to turn the tables.   The "not a killer" thing wasn't even something Logan planned to say; Kendall asked him as an aside and pushed him for that answer. 

[Don Johnson 4754]

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a29472259/succession-season-2-finale-ending-logan-smile-explained/

From the mouth of Brian Cox:

“It was inevitable but surprising, in terms of Kendall having been so careful through the whole second season. He’s shied away from his strength, Kendall has. Logan knew in order to sacrifice himself, he would have to do it through his family. He figured that the one chance he had was to make Kendall into the killer. That’s why, at the end, he smiles. He’s achieved what he was after. ‘My son has come of age. He’s now officially a killer.’”

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

The head writer seems surprised  (though happy) that some people are coming up with theories like that:

"My colleagues and I had a debate after the episode: Is it fair to assume that Logan was genuinely surprised by what Kendall did? Earlier in the episode, one of the shareholders suggests that he should step down. Is it possible he sacrificed Kendall knowing that Kendall might retaliate?

Okay, wow. It’s fun to hear that people are coming up with their own interpretations like that. It feels unseemly, given the work we all do to create [the show], to then impose some binary decisions. I’ll just say, the show is the best version of the show. I’m happy for people to engage with it."

https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/succession-season-2-finale-jesse-armstrong.html

It's clear that Logan was impressed at the end, but I don't think that means that he set up the dominoes to fall as they did.  He didn't even know that Greg had the proof needed to pull it off.   I think he was impressed precisely because he didn't see it coming and it was so strong.   By contrast, he wasn't impressed when Kendall came at him at the end of the last season, even though that was arguably a killer move.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

Whether Kendall had the proof or not doesn’t matter. If a COO accuses a CEO, who’s already hated, that the CEO knew about the scandal for years, the COO is going to be believed. Especially when it adds up.  

[yoladu 4094]

fantastic episode. A few thoughts.

01) Kendall's face when Naomi tells him that his father only loves him when he is broken.

02) The beach scene with Shiv and Tom... holy hell that was raw.

03) Roman was uncharacteristically measured, mature and seemingly knowledgeable. What's up with that? And his reaction to being named COO was a bit odd?

04) the opening scene is fueling the theory that Logan set the whole Kendall (2nd) betrayal, but i am not convinced. Seems like way too may levers to be pulled there.

 

[lateshow 1304]

29 minutes ago, yoladu said:

fantastic episode. A few thoughts.

01) Kendall's face when Naomi tells him that his father only loves him when he is broken.

02) The beach scene with Shiv and Tom... holy hell that was raw.

03) Roman was uncharacteristically measured, mature and seemingly knowledgeable. What's up with that? And his reaction to being named COO was a bit odd?

04) the opening scene is fueling the theory that Logan set the whole Kendall (2nd) betrayal, but i am not convinced. Seems like way too may levers to be pulled there.

 

I feel like being held hostage, and not knowing if you'll live or die, will humble a fella. 

[Aqua Buddha 14599]

On 10/14/2019 at 10:17 PM, Lobo said:

Gotta give it to Alan Ruck for aging well.  He's 10 years to the day, younger than Brian Cox.  Great finale.  At the risk of repeating myself, this went from a stop-gap show last summer to probably the best thing on TV right now.  The writing is approaching Twainian levels. 

Didn't realize Alan Ruck is 63.  No shit.

[Don Johnson 4754]

Good Ringer piece on Ruck from earlier this month

https://www.theringer.com/tv/2019/10/2/20891309/alan-ruck-succession-connor-roy

[henrygandorf 29194]

On 10/13/2019 at 8:34 PM, Mojo Hand said:

That was fantastic. 

And once again, Greg is making big plays behind the scenes. 

if you want to move up, you gotta be in on whacking the boss.

[A-Tex Devil 2451]

There’s a ton of conspiracy theory out there that there was some kind of long game involving Kendall and Shiv and maybe Greg.  I don’t think so.  

I think two distinct things made Kendall sack up and turn on his father. 
 

1. Naomi’s analysis as mentioned above. 
 

2. Hearing his dad call the kid Kendall killed an NRPI.   That statement From Logan is getting short shrift.  It is such a horrible acronym for these victims, something used against them in the Senate hearings, and here you have Logan using it in passing, waiving his hand like it’s nothing.  

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

3 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

There’s a ton of conspiracy theory out there that there was some kind of long game involving Kendall and Shiv and maybe Greg.  I don’t think so.  

I think two distinct things made Kendall sack up and turn on his father. 
 

1. Naomi’s analysis as mentioned above. 
 

2. Hearing his dad call the kid Kendall killed an NRPI.   That statement From Logan is getting short shrift.  It is such a horrible acronym for these victims, something used against them in the Senate hearings, and here you have Logan using it in passing, waiving his hand like it’s nothing.  

 

It's not a conspiracy theory it's what a lot of people believe based on what has occurred during the season with Shiv, Kendall and even Roman. And Shiv setting Logan up by not giving him a name (not being the killer he wanted), Kendall being told he was fine but not a killer when Logan said it would be him, Roman being a killer with the hostage situation and that not being enough.......

It might turn out to be nothing but there are a lot of things throughout the season that had those three "teaming up". 

[A-Tex Devil 2451]

3 hours ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

It's not a conspiracy theory it's what a lot of people believe based on what has occurred during the season with Shiv, Kendall and even Roman. And Shiv setting Logan up by not giving him a name (not being the killer he wanted), Kendall being told he was fine but not a killer when Logan said it would be him, Roman being a killer with the hostage situation and that not being enough.......

It might turn out to be nothing but there are a lot of things throughout the season that had those three "teaming up". 

Conspiracy was too strong.  Two schools of thought, then - whether this was a planned set up or Kendall decided to do this sometime during the last episode.  

They definitely hint at some collusion over the course of the episodes, but I don't buy Kendall as that good of an actor, at least not in how Jeremy Strong played it (which was excellent).  I'm in the camp that it happened in the episode -  the nonchalant way Logan used NPRI (given how broken up Kendall was about the dead guy, giving him money, etc.), followed by "you're not a killer" pushed him over.  And Greg got looped in on the plane. 

 

[Bodowned 763]

Anybody see this yet?

 

[Don Johnson 4754]

IMO, it wasn’t planned or a conspiracy. The siblings weren’t in on it. 
 

But it was what Logan hoped would happen when he chose Kendall. If Kendall pussed out and just took the fall, so be it, then for sure didn’t have what it took. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

I would like to see more of the flight with Greg and Kendall. I can’t see Greg telling Kendall of the evidence that Kendall didn’t want to hear about from Tom in season 1, and why would Kendall guess that Greg had that found/saved that evidence in a folder labeled “secret.”

The flip would seem more realistic if they had been slowly discussing that over this season. It was a dramatic ending that I liked but zero lead up to it happening. 

[BHMCruiser 1814]

6 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I would like to see more of the flight with Greg and Kendall. I can’t see Greg telling Kendall of the evidence that Kendall didn’t want to hear about from Tom in season 1, and why would Kendall guess that Greg had that found/saved that evidence in a folder labeled “secret.”

The flip would seem more realistic if they had been slowly discussing that over this season. It was a dramatic ending that I liked but zero lead up to it happening. 

Greg had already told Kendall about the information at Shiv's wedding. He told him he had kept it for insurance. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

2 hours ago, BHMCruiser said:

Greg had already told Kendall about the information at Shiv's wedding. He told him he had kept it for insurance. 

Ah. I had forgotten that. I get the need to have Kendall pull a surprise for the audience but I hope they go back and show how he shifted in those last hours.

[Eastwood 4394]

Logan was told during his video call early in the episode that the big shareholders wanted him to jump on his own sword. To do so was too much of a sign of weakness for his taste. He essentially gave the sword to Kendall with the hopes that Kendall would do it for him.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

On 10/18/2019 at 5:32 PM, Bodowned said:

Anybody see this yet?

 

Holy shit this is amazing.  "Daddy's #1 Candy Boy"... lulz

[henrygandorf 29194]

On 10/18/2019 at 3:32 PM, Bodowned said:

Anybody see this yet?

 

well done but they got the clothing wrong.

kendall always wears a suit with no tie.  jacket buttoned.  roman always wears suit pants with a button down, no jacket.

[Augustus 3061]

On 10/24/2019 at 12:00 PM, henrygandorf said:

well done but they got the clothing wrong.

kendall always wears a suit with no tie.  jacket buttoned.  roman always wears suit pants with a button down, no jacket.

His impression of Kendall was amazing.

[Alvin89 108]

If Logan goes down couldn’t he drag Kendall down with him since he knows he was driving the car that killed the boy? 

[Chewbacca 7780]

If Logan goes down couldn’t he drag Kendall down with him since he knows he was driving the car that killed the boy? 

He could, but i don't think he will. Next season will be Kendall in charge, but Logan influencing from the shadows.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

Just finished S2:E10.  DAMN.  Perfect

[4th&Five 41571]

 

[Don Johnson 4754]

I'm excited but can't remember jack shit from last season.

[henrygandorf 29194]

[Tylerocks 2553]

Wife and I just started Season 1 this week (have the finale to watch tonight)...so, I'm gonna bail on this thread until we finish season 2, but reading the first couple of pages...some of y'alls predictions early on have been on the money.

 

And as was mentioned, there aren't really ANY likable characters.

I mean I guess Connor?  Gerri?  Uncle Ewan seems to be a good judge of character lol

[oSuJeff97 3435]

Can't fucking wait.

And also I renew my request for a half-hour sitcom of just The Adventures of Tom and Greg.

[futureman 22510]

Greg the egg!

[oSuJeff97 3435]

On 7/10/2021 at 11:34 AM, futureman said:

Greg Gregory the egg!

FIFY   

[mchookem 16342]

bump

watched both seasons the past couple of weeks...show is the shit and looks like i'm just in time for S3, yay!

 

[4th&Five 41571]

 

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

Just give the people want they want. A Tom and Cousin spin-off with Shiv’s sweater puppies in a recurring guest star role. 

HBO Max you have the power to do this!

Edited September 17, 2021 by billfromlaketravis

[oSuJeff97 3435]

I somehow missed that Alexandar Skarsgard and Adrian Brody were joining the cast this year.

#BartScott.gif

[4th&Five 41571]

Brody better not fuck this up like he did Peaky Blinders.