Succession -- HBO

[Carl Spackler 3,486]

9 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

and he also saw how Shiv didn't necessarily give a shit that he was going to go to prison.

Plus the dialogue in the previous episode where she told Tom that she didn't love him and then tried to pass it off later as roleplaying/foreplay.  That scene combined with her nonchalance when he was stressing about going to prison made him wake up and realize that he was expendable to her, although I do believe that she loves him on some level and vice versa.

[henrygandorf 29,192]

37 minutes ago, NOMAAA said:

Tom is obviously “rated”. 

yes, it was odd how often they came back to that phrase this episode.

[Chopper 17,239]

Hard to imagine the children not being smart enough to call their mother to make sure she's on board before laying down a gauntlet to their father.

The same kids (3/4)  were all too afraid of daddy just a few weeks back when they could have snatched the company from him. They despised each other too much to team up. Now all of a sudden when there's a new, second, threat from the outside, they're all-in, together. An outside threat that was more than foreseeable at the time. The turn of events and the way their attitudes changed on a dime was way too contrived for my taste.

Hard to imagine Shiv thinking that saying "I don't love you" during sex would be a turn on to her husband, esp after all the baby talk.

Hard to imagine Roman, who up until that very last day had kept the secret that he was "rated" and slated for a prestige position in the new org chart at a much larger company, and that he would then decide to change sides at the last minute and go to war with his drug-addict, loser brother versus he father he'd done everything he could think of to butter up in the months previous.

Hard to imagine Kendall managing a 7-11 let alone a major business, or even a piece of a business. In fact you can say the same of all 3 kids. Yet neither are dimwitted 'failsons' who can't walk or chew gum at the same time. In fact, they're each portrayed as bright and ambitious. Yet just to add drama to the script they can't figure out basic human behavior, like not sending dick pics to the acting-CEO, sweating at or insulting everyone they come into contact with, or even how to butter up the spouse they're now relying upon. There's so much about their behavior and personal interactions that doesn't ring near true to me and I'm only really scratching the surface.

I hope this makes sense and isn't too much of a rant. 

BTW, the wedding was filmed at an estate with 4 separate villas near Siena. https://www.villacetinale.com/ and they filmed at a bunch of locations in Tuscany. I think this was the restaurant with the lovely large patio where they had lunch. https://www.villacetinale.com/

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Chopper

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Greg and Tom’s conversation about Greg’s possible future in the royal family of Luxembourg was priceless. “You’re a plane crash away from being Europe’s weirdest king. You off a couple of hemophiliacs and you’ll be the king of Luxembourg. Sounds like a fancy cookie”

The best part was Tom’s follow up - that they can’t let Roman marry her or he’ll up and invade France.

[mchookem 16,337]

22 minutes ago, Chopper said:

 

BTW, the wedding was filmed at an estate with 4 separate villas near Siena. https://www.villacetinale.com/ and they filmed at a bunch of locations in Tuscany. I think this was the restaurant with the lovely large patio where they had lunch. https://www.villacetinale.com/

 

[RexWilson 1,348]

Prior to the ex wife/Tom bomb, I thought the talk of Logan trying to amp up his sperm to make a baby was his way of diluting the kids super majority.

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

17 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

I do find it a little unbelievable that Logan wouldn't already know that the kids held a supermajority of the holding company through the divorce (or whatever the detail was).  That's something you negotiate and never, ever forget.  He wouldn't need Tom to tell him.

But whatever, details...

Oh I'm sure he knew. 

My take is that's why he was locking the kids out of the process as a precaution. His plan was likely to (1) Get things locked down with GoJo because that was the top priority (2) Then offer Caroline whatever to get the kids votes back (3) Tell the kids to fuck off and profit.

However, he also probably considered that Roman (at least) would stay with him and possibly Shiv. Remember it would take all 3 kids being on the same page to tank his plan.

What Tom did was alert Logan that (a) the kids knew about it before he had a chance to get everything locked down and (b) they were all on the same page.

So it accelerated his plans to get all of his voting rights back and he also knew what was coming at him when they arrived.

[Wade 464]

I don't think it's an outrageous thought that Logan simply forgot about the kids having power to kill a change of control.  When divorce was done, selling out was out of the realm of any possibility for Logan, so I could see him agreeing to something like that knowing it'd never be an issue and summarily forgetting about it.  Dude is 80+ years old and has obviously lost his fastball anyway.  The only adversaries he's defeated since the series started are his traumatized and over-matched kids.

[Guest Lobo]

^

Good point.  As rough 'n tumble he is with his children/Tom/brother/C-level/fellow board members, external forces have been wiping the floor with him for a long while now.

[F250 28,788]

12 hours ago, Chopper said:

Hard to imagine the children not being smart enough to call their mother to make sure she's on board before laying down a gauntlet to their father.

The same kids (3/4)  were all too afraid of daddy just a few weeks back when they could have snatched the company from him. They despised each other too much to team up. Now all of a sudden when there's a new, second, threat from the outside, they're all-in, together. An outside threat that was more than foreseeable at the time. The turn of events and the way their attitudes changed on a dime was way too contrived for my taste.

Hard to imagine Shiv thinking that saying "I don't love you" during sex would be a turn on to her husband, esp after all the baby talk.

Hard to imagine Roman, who up until that very last day had kept the secret that he was "rated" and slated for a prestige position in the new org chart at a much larger company, and that he would then decide to change sides at the last minute and go to war with his drug-addict, loser brother versus he father he'd done everything he could think of to butter up in the months previous.

Hard to imagine Kendall managing a 7-11 let alone a major business, or even a piece of a business. In fact you can say the same of all 3 kids. Yet neither are dimwitted 'failsons' who can't walk or chew gum at the same time. In fact, they're each portrayed as bright and ambitious. Yet just to add drama to the script they can't figure out basic human behavior, like not sending dick pics to the acting-CEO, sweating at or insulting everyone they come into contact with, or even how to butter up the spouse they're now relying upon. There's so much about their behavior and personal interactions that doesn't ring near true to me and I'm only really scratching the surface.

I hope this makes sense and isn't too much of a rant. 

BTW, the wedding was filmed at an estate with 4 separate villas near Siena. https://www.villacetinale.com/ and they filmed at a bunch of locations in Tuscany. I think this was the restaurant with the lovely large patio where they had lunch. https://www.villacetinale.com/

 

The turn of events wasn't due to an outside threat, it was when they all found out that Logan was cutting them out of the deal. Shiv and Roman stood by Logan previously under the idea that the company would remain under family control. Which is why all the siblings were fighting with each other for control. Logan’s new deal was to forgo succession which united the kids because they were all about to be screwed over.

They don't understand basic human behavior because they are extremely wealthy narcissists raised by a sociopath. I don't think any of them have ever been portrayed as bright and ambitious just entitled shits that think they are bright and ambitious.

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by F250

[Patrick Bateman 3,917]

12 hours ago, Chopper said:

Hard to imagine the children not being smart enough to call their mother to make sure she's on board before laying down a gauntlet to their father.

Have you not met these characters?  Neither Shiv nor Roman knew the particulars and had to ask Kendall.  Remember, Shiv and Roman aren't competent.  They have neither the experience nor the smart to really make this thing work.  Shiv more on the experience but she keeps showing her ass when needed to make a move.  Roman has almost no competency.  Kendall has the book smarts and experience, but is an emotionally tormented and weak character.

12 hours ago, Chopper said:

The same kids (3/4)  were all too afraid of daddy just a few weeks back when they could have snatched the company from him. They despised each other too much to team up. Now all of a sudden when there's a new, second, threat from the outside, they're all-in, together. An outside threat that was more than foreseeable at the time. The turn of events and the way their attitudes changed on a dime was way too contrived for my taste.

Again, Kendall had already made his play.  Shiv and Roman thought they were still in the running to be the Succession plan.  When they learned they weren't, it's a brand new paradigm and they acted accordingly.

12 hours ago, Chopper said:

Hard to imagine Shiv thinking that saying "I don't love you" during sex would be a turn on to her husband, esp after all the baby talk.

Hard to imagine Roman, who up until that very last day had kept the secret that he was "rated" and slated for a prestige position in the new org chart at a much larger company, and that he would then decide to change sides at the last minute and go to war with his drug-addict, loser brother versus he father he'd done everything he could think of to butter up in the months previous.

Roman was the most conflicted, but ultimately, he doesn't want to be a yes man to anyone but a family member.  He doesn't care about where the company's vision, he doesn't care about it's next stage, he doesn't care about the company's corporate citizenship, he simply wants to outdo his siblings and be Daddy's favorite son.  That's really all it is for him...... a contest to see who the favorite child is.

12 hours ago, Chopper said:

Hard to imagine Kendall managing a 7-11 let alone a major business, or even a piece of a business. In fact you can say the same of all 3 kids. Yet neither are dimwitted 'failsons' who can't walk or chew gum at the same time. In fact, they're each portrayed as bright and ambitious. Yet just to add drama to the script they can't figure out basic human behavior, like not sending dick pics to the acting-CEO, sweating at or insulting everyone they come into contact with, or even how to butter up the spouse they're now relying upon. There's so much about their behavior and personal interactions that doesn't ring near true to me and I'm only really scratching the surface.

I think this is a valid criticism.  They children have been made to seem so hilariously incompetent, it's hard to think someone like Logan couldn't have figured this out earlier.  They really are shown as morons, even though Kendall supposedly has some skins on the wall.

12 hours ago, Chopper said:

I hope this makes sense and isn't too much of a rant. 

BTW, the wedding was filmed at an estate with 4 separate villas near Siena. https://www.villacetinale.com/ and they filmed at a bunch of locations in Tuscany. I think this was the restaurant with the lovely large patio where they had lunch. https://www.villacetinale.com/

 

 

[F250 28,788]

On 12/13/2021 at 11:15 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Yep.  I was trying to envision some scenario where they lose anything but power, or the potential to assume it at some later date.

They would make a shit ton from the m/a in 99/100 scenarios, maybe 100/100.

And, they've never actually had any power, just illusory power granted and retaken by Logan.

Ascending to the throne seems to be their only motivation. It's reminiscent of GoT where you have a lot of unqualified people making a claim who are clearly unworthy.

Someone in this thread mentioned that Kendall was a wannabe Tech Bro. He does come off as one and should have cashed out and move to Silicon Valley to do the VC thing. Build his own pile.

 

 

[Texas St. Armadillos 1,381]

So, am I understanding correctly that Caroline controlled the 3 kid's voting rights or board seats?  The divorce amendment made at the end gave her and new hubby what they wanted and reverted their voting rights or seats back to her exclusively?

[Wade 464]

22 minutes ago, Texas St. Armadillos said:

So, am I understanding correctly that Caroline controlled the 3 kid's voting rights or board seats?  The divorce amendment made at the end gave her and new hubby what they wanted and reverted their voting rights or seats back to her exclusively?

No, when the divorce occurred the mother wanted to protect the interests of her three small children, and negotiated that any change of control outside family would require their consent.  Years later, with her deteriorated relationship with the kids and infatuation with bridezilla, she agreed to amend the divorce settlement in return for some London property or something that her hubby covets, thereby taking the power away from the kids.

[TwiceHorn 31,507]

27 minutes ago, Wade said:

No, when the divorce occurred the mother wanted to protect the interests of her three small children, and negotiated that any change of control outside family would require their consent.  Years later, with her deteriorated relationship with the kids and infatuation with bridezilla, she agreed to amend the divorce settlement in return for some London property or something that her hubby covets, thereby taking the power away from the kids.

Yep, apparently, the whole shebang is controlled through this holding company whose shareholders are the family, presumably Logan, Connor, Kendall, Shiv and Roman.

So a full-on acquisition could not occur over the kids' objections.

Caroline agreed to change that in return for title to the flat.  Exactly how Caroline would change that remains a little unclear.

Also, it may be that Caroline's ability to change that is not only unclear, but non-existent, which perhaps provides fodder for next season.

Meaning, the holding company would likely be a corporation, that owns the family's shares of Waystar Royco.  And would vote those shares as the shareholders of the holding company direct by majority vote.  So, the kids overrule Logan and the shares are voted against a change of control, and being a controlling interest in Waystar Royco, no such acquisition could occur.

It wouldn't be easy to just alter that arrangement over the objections of the majority of the shareholders: the kids.

But, the show has only minor fidelity to the financial and legal realities it purports to portray.

Edited December 15, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Chopper 17,239]

1 hour ago, Wade said:

Years later, with her deteriorated relationship with the kids and infatuation with bridezilla, she agreed to amend the divorce settlement in return for some London property or something that her hubby covets, thereby taking the power away from the kids.

The husband showed his ass to Logan in the very first moment of their first meeting when he asked him to call the dicks at downing street for something on his behalf. House of Lords?

[Chopper 17,239]

2 hours ago, F250 said:

The turn of events wasn't due to an outside threat, it was when they all found out that Logan was cutting them out of the deal. Shiv and Roman stood by Logan previously under the idea that the company would remain under family control. Which is why all the siblings were fighting with each other for control. Logan’s new deal was to forgo succession which united the kids because they were all about to be screwed over.

Not due to an outside threat? Their company was being acquired. It wasn't a hostile takeover but they were very aware that the company needed major change because it had too much debt and no growth outlook. The first upheaval when the 3 children sided with Logan, they had no idea whether he'd come out in control. In fact, there was a time when it appeared his health problems had turned him into someone in need of full-time assisted living. And yet, they all weighed their options and went with the dinosaur. Only to turn on a dime like 2 months later.

When I think of entitled rich offspring, incompetent and bone chillingly stupid, 2 names come to mind. I don't want to cr this up but the 2 idiots that come to mind aren't helping to run a public company, but rather a family business that makes money (allegedly) by trading on its name. They're "developers" that don't develop anything. Those 2 boys are the picture of entitled and stupid. But Roman, Shiv and Kendall are competent in comparison (although neither has any of the experience that would allow them to be c-suite). Until the exact moment when show drama is necessary and then they're turned into fully incompetent idiots.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Chopper

[henrygandorf 29,192]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Caroline agreed to change that in return for title to the flat.  Exactly how Caroline would change that remains a little unclear.

Also, it may be that Caroline's ability to change that is not only unclear, but non-existent, which perhaps provides fodder for next season.

Meaning, the holding company would likely be a corporation, that owns the family's shares of Waystar Royco.  And would vote those shares as the shareholders of the holding company direct by majority vote.  So, the kids overrule Logan and the shares are voted against a change of control, and being a controlling interest in Waystar Royco, no such acquisition could occur.

It wouldn't be easy to just alter that arrangement over the objections of the majority of the shareholders: the kids.

But, the show has only minor fidelity to the financial and legal realities it purports to portray.

yeah, they kinda held it up as "this is something she got in the divorce" which in the minds of the viewer, turns it into an asset that can be bought, sold, traded, or in this situation, a chip to be bargained with.  once they explained it that way, then it became something she could use to get what she wanted from logan, especially since it seemed like revisiting their settlement arrangement was something they had done at least a couple times before.

it's like when wealthy people get divorced and the wife gets some artwork in the settlement that she only wanted because of how much the husband loved it.  then, later, when she needs cash, she turns and sells the artwork back to the husband.

[4th&Five 41,565]

This is when Logan knew he could roll with Tom. 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by 4th&Five

[NOMAAA 1,696]

I’d like to think that when my boss sells our company I’m described as rated. Never heard that before. Is that common among rich folk?

[Planet Houston 4,930]

9 hours ago, Wade said:

I don't think it's an outrageous thought that Logan simply forgot about the kids having power to kill a change of control.  When divorce was done, selling out was out of the realm of any possibility for Logan, so I could see him agreeing to something like that knowing it'd never be an issue and summarily forgetting about it.  Dude is 80+ years old and has obviously lost his fastball anyway.  The only adversaries he's defeated since the series started are his traumatized and over-matched kids.

Well then he has the worst fucking lawyers that billions can buy. That’s why I had to take the whole plot point with a grain of salt. The lawyers would be fucking all over that change of control right from the second they got the call from ATN about the deal. 

[ChickenSandwich 9,843]

12 minutes ago, Planet Houston said:

Well then he has the worst fucking lawyers that billions can buy. That’s why I had to take the whole plot point with a grain of salt. The lawyers would be fucking all over that change of control right from the second they got the call from ATN about the deal. 

Would make more sense if they needed 5 votes to veto. 4 kids and mom. Mom sells her vote for man whore. Says the company is not good for you anyway 

[Planet Houston 4,930]

Man. We finally watched the finale last night. Despite my snarky comment about the lawyers, I can’t get enough of this show. I fucking love it. I thought last nights episode was spectacular. 

I can’t believe I’m happy about something that lets that monster Logan “win”, but all I have to say to Tom is:

[kilroydos 267]

16 hours ago, NOMAAA said:

I’d like to think that when my boss sells our company I’m described as rated. Never heard that before. Is that common among rich folk?

British

[yoladu 4,094]

15 minutes ago, kilroydos said:

British

Yep, hear it it a lot in regards to European soccer players, ie: "I don't rate him" in reference to a player.

or : "I rate him a lot"

Edited December 16, 2021 by yoladu

[MissingInAction 25,113]

Roman reminds me of a good friend of mine. Intelligent, snarky, will break people down in hilarious fashion. Doesn't know when to stop.

Can't decide if you want to punch him or hug him.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Go easy on the Pepsi, Fuller!

[skittlebrau 474]

On 12/15/2021 at 8:09 PM, ChickenSandwich said:

Would make more sense if they needed 5 votes to veto. 4 kids and mom. Mom sells her vote for man whore. Says the company is not good for you anyway 

For some reason, I took it this way. But I’ve only seen the episode once.

 

Maybe Shiv shoulda been a little nicer to her at the bachelorette party.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Is it time for season four yet?

[BHMCruiser 1,814]

On 12/8/2021 at 1:16 PM, Chewbacca said:

Making Ken's kid try the food was amazing.  Did Logan really think Ken would try to poison him, or was he just being his usual asshole self?

Best part of the episode. I think he was just being an asshole to underscore how weird he thought Ken was acting.

[BHMCruiser 1,814]

On 12/14/2021 at 10:30 PM, Chopper said:

Hard to imagine Shiv thinking that saying "I don't love you" during sex would be a turn on to her husband, esp after all the baby talk.

She didn't say it to turn him on. She said it to turn herself on because it degraded him and she wanted to humiliate him. 

[4th&Five 41,565]

18 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Is it time for season four yet?

I read somewhere where Cox said they start filming in June. 

[BHMCruiser 1,814]

16 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

I read somewhere where Cox said they start filming in June. 

He looks terrible. They need to film whatever they're going to film sooner rather than later. 

[Guest Lobo]

To be fair to Brian Cox, not that he's a picture of youth...but they do age him a bit on the show with makeup/lighting.  He's 75 in real life and I think on the show, we're to believe he's now 81 or 82.  6 years may not be much in mid-life, but difference between 75 and 81 is huge...even in fiction.

I've said before and I'll say it again...that Alan Ruck is less than 10 years younger than Brian Cox blows my mind.  

 

[BHMCruiser 1,814]

9 minutes ago, Lobo said:

To be fair to Brian Cox, not that he's a picture of youth...but they do age him a bit on the show with makeup/lighting.  He's 75 in real life and I think on the show, we're to believe he's now 81 or 82.  6 years may not be much in mid-life, but difference between 75 and 81 is huge...even in fiction.

I've said before and I'll say it again...that Alan Ruck is less than 10 years younger than Brian Cox blows my mind.  

 

I agree. I thought Cox had some health problems but maybe I misremember.

[F250 28,788]

6 hours ago, BHMCruiser said:

I agree. I thought Cox had some health problems but maybe I misremember.

If he has health issues it's probably because McDonald's is paying him in french fries for all those commercials.

 

[NOMAAA 1,696]

11 minutes ago, F250 said:

If he has health issues it's probably because McDonald's is paying him in french fries for all those commercials.

 

ba ba ba OH FUCK OFFFFFF!!!

[LonghornSean 4,008]

I thought Brian Cox looked in pretty good shape towards season's end. I'm guessing the VO work for McD's gives him some extra for a personal chef.

Edited December 21, 2021 by LonghornSean

[remoh 87]

15 hours ago, Lobo said:

 

I've said before and I'll say it again...that Alan Ruck is less than 10 years younger than Brian Cox blows my mind.  

 

Logan Roy’s balls dropped when he was 8 and had Connor when he was just under 9.
 

That’s why he slapped Ken’s sissy little nerd kid in season 1 - he expects progress from his progeny and is disappointed in the retardation he sees with each successive generation. 
 

[Guest Lobo]

It also means Alan Ruck was about my age now when he filmed Ferris Bueller.  
 

I got sucked into an article last On the brilliance of the wardrobe designer in succession.  I laughed at first but became entranced.  

[Chewbacca 7,780]

It also means Alan Ruck was about my age now when he filmed Ferris Bueller.  
 
I got sucked into an article last On the brilliance of the wardrobe designer in succession.  I laughed at first but became entranced.  

When Cameron was in Egypt land, let my Cameron go...

[TwiceHorn 31,507]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

18 hours ago, Lobo said:

It also means Alan Ruck was about my age now when he filmed Ferris Bueller.  
 
I got sucked into an article last On the brilliance of the wardrobe designer in succession.  I laughed at first but became entranced.  

When Cameron was in Egypt land, let my Cameron go...

Ruck is low-key fantastic and Conner is an adult variation on Cameron.

[BHMCruiser 1,814]

The thing that keeps drawing me back to this show through all the cringe and often poorly-conceived narrative is that the dialogue is frequently fantastic. For my money, this is brilliant:

Tom: "Don't worry, Greg. It's a nice safe space where you don't have to pretend to like Hamilton." 

Greg: "I like Hamilton."

Tom: "Sure you go. We all do."

Just phenomenal to write something that solid and incisive while also saying more than just the one literal thing. Greg's liking Hamilton destroyed the safe space and Tom knows it's not really a safe space anyway. 

[TonyTexas 10,518]

Worth a watch. The guy who plays Kendall does a great job. 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by TonyTexas

[Prepuce of Doom 21,087]

2 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Worth a watch. The guy who plays Kendall does a great job. 

 

I'm pretty sure it's all the same guy. 

Greg cracked me up. 

[Pig Bellmont 8,719]

1 minute ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

I'm pretty sure it's all the same guy. 

Yes it is. That’s part of the gag

[Prepuce of Doom 21,087]

14 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Yes it is. That’s part of the gag

I was responding to the "the guy who plays Kendall does a good job" comment. 

[Planet Houston 4,930]

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Planet Houston

[Sgt Hulk 13,793]

Getting started now  ep 3 season 1

[CooterBrown 18,015]

Just binged this show. Ol’ Tom finally grew a pair and fucked Shiv at the end.

Greg is gonna end up with the empire in before it’s all done.